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Author Topic: BBE Sonic Maximizer: Necessary?  (Read 27974 times)

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realdealblues

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Re: BBE Sonic Maximizer: Necessary?
« Reply #15 on: Time Format »

Two quick questions:

- Are the BBE supposed to have no effect on the signal at 12oclock?
- Do you guys setup your BBEs after the preamp (before effects) or just before the power amp? The latter way would affect the tone of the power amp no?

The Low Contour is supposed to be "Flat or Unity Gain" at the 12 o'clock position.
The Definition Control is supposed to be "Flat, with Phase Correction only" at the complete counter-clockwise position or roughly 7 o'clock position.

As where it goes in the signal chain.  The BBE is designed to be the last thing before the power amp and because it's before the power amp, no it isn't going to effect the tone of the power amp itself.  It's going to effect the tone of everything BEFORE the BBE. 

The BBE is supposed to take all the signal placed before it and sum it out and compensate the time, phase and amplitudes, etc as to even everything out so that when it hits your power amp and is then projected through the speakers you hear all the different frequencies arrive at the same time.  At least that's the technical mumbo jumbo.

Now, some guys like it before effects, some like it after.  I tried it both ways and just preferred the way it sounded after the effects.
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jarrodthebobo

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Re: BBE Sonic Maximizer: Necessary?
« Reply #16 on: Time Format »

I personally put the bbe directly after the ada mp1 in my signal chain and run a 15 band eq afterwards and it sounds pretty good to me. However I never had thought to try it last in chain... gonna try that out when i return from flkrida  :thumb-up:..
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RandallRG

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Re: BBE Sonic Maximizer: Necessary?
« Reply #17 on: Time Format »

Forgot to mention because I have been experimenting with my BBE 462 as far as which way to run it & what sounds the BEST (to me & my ears anyway) so far I have found running it this way it sounds pretty good. (MP-1>Hush II) & my (BBE/Digitizer 4) in the Loop of my MP-1 (I know what has been said about the Loop in the MP-1 (not being that good) all I can say at least in this situation is that it works & sounds really good) & it really does bring the BBE & the D4 to life! Take a look online & you will find so much info on Forums Etc about the BBE. It's funny as Hell to find a Forum with 4-5 pages of just everyone saying "DON'T GET IT...YOU WILL REGRET IT!" (LOL) It will just completely Screw up your Tone/Sound & you will not ever find it again? It just Over processes your Sound & makes it like complete Crap Etc. Then there will be a page of Dudes that just praise it & say it has really done wonders for them..So go figure? Now of course if you don't get the settings right the BBE CAN & WILL make your Lows Muddy as Hell & your Highs so Ear Piercing that you will just Freak Out & Break Shit! LOL! Anyway this is just my $0.02.... :metal:
« Last Edit: Time Format by RandallRG »
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jarrodthebobo

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Re: BBE Sonic Maximizer: Necessary?
« Reply #18 on: Time Format »

Ooo someone else who has a hush II! Havnt found all too many people who use them or like them really... ah a/bed one of the larger full rack unit hushes to the hush II and they both honestly did a fairly well job at reducing the noise. Chose the hush II because of its size and price though.
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RandallRG

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Re: BBE Sonic Maximizer: Necessary?
« Reply #19 on: Time Format »

Yeah man you cant beat the price (I got mine for under $20.00! :thumb-up:) & it being a "Half" Rack is great! I like it...It does what it's suppose to & does it well.  :metal:
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DaveM

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Re: BBE Sonic Maximizer: Necessary?
« Reply #20 on: Time Format »

I too briefly fell under the spell of the BBE, about ten years ago, using it with my MP-1, MP-2 and Carvin Quad-X preamps.  In the beginning, and in a home setting, I definitely felt the "How the heck did I EVER get by without the BBE." 

But once I tried it in a band/"live situation, though, I saw (heard) a completely different picture.  Sooooo, I promptly ditched it and never looked back.

NONE of my favorite artists use them, and there's a reason why......
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HEADS: Mesa Boogie Mark-IVa, Egnater TOL-50
RACK: ADA MP2, Peavey Classic 60/60
PEDALBOARD: Line6 M13, MXR Carbon Copy, Fulltone FD-2 MOSFET, "Slash" WAH, Morley Lil Alligator, Digitech Jamman
CABS: Avatar and Genz-Benz
GUITARS: Ibanez, Fender & Schecter
WIRELESS: Line 6 G50
STUDIO: Cubase 6.5, Focusrite interface, M-Audio MCU-PRO DAW controller, Novation Impulse controller, KRK monitors, AKG phones, reamping courtesy of Radial

kawai2g4b

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Re: BBE Sonic Maximizer: Necessary?
« Reply #21 on: Time Format »

Jarrod, really like the video!  You got everything clicking right now.  O0

To DaveM: I do share your opinion of the BBE.  At home, an exciter unit is a great tool, but when in a band or live in a noisy venue it just needlessly makes your signal spread out over other occupied frequencies and eliminates punchiness unless you use it conservatively.  BTW, check your PM, got a question for you that I would rather not tread all over this thread with.
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DaveM

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Re: BBE Sonic Maximizer: Necessary?
« Reply #22 on: Time Format »

I remember using it at band practice,  and engaging the BBE would instantly cause my tone to disappear in the mix.

....never again
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HEADS: Mesa Boogie Mark-IVa, Egnater TOL-50
RACK: ADA MP2, Peavey Classic 60/60
PEDALBOARD: Line6 M13, MXR Carbon Copy, Fulltone FD-2 MOSFET, "Slash" WAH, Morley Lil Alligator, Digitech Jamman
CABS: Avatar and Genz-Benz
GUITARS: Ibanez, Fender & Schecter
WIRELESS: Line 6 G50
STUDIO: Cubase 6.5, Focusrite interface, M-Audio MCU-PRO DAW controller, Novation Impulse controller, KRK monitors, AKG phones, reamping courtesy of Radial

RandallRG

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Re: BBE Sonic Maximizer: Necessary?
« Reply #23 on: Time Format »

I remember using it at band practice,  and engaging the BBE would instantly cause my tone to disappear in the mix.

....never again
Yeah that's what I have been reading about in many Threads (Old threads etc over the years) People say that it sounds KILLER @ Bedroom volume etc but once in a Band setting Forget about it! It just can't cut it...(Then there are those that say the complete opposite about the same exact situation? LOL!) Like I said I guess you just have to try it out for yourself. I can say that in the House by yourself jamming it has some great Tone/Sound with it engaged. With my Randall RG100ES all I have to do is just barely turn the volume up on my MP-1 & it is M-E-G-A LOUD & the BBE sounds really good...We all Hear/See things differently so to each is own I guess?  :metal:
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rnolan

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Re: BBE Sonic Maximizer: Necessary?
« Reply #24 on: Time Format »

RandallRG...glad to know I'm not alone in my thoughts  :)

And I totally agree about the OD settings.  I mainly play classic rock and 80's hair band stuff.  Most people use too much gain and distortion.  To me you lose that crisp, clean, articulate character that stands out with most great players.  I like to think of Van Halen's 1984 tone.  Like Panama or Drop Dead Legs.  He really has very little gain going.  I see people play it on the EVH 5150 III and they max out the gain on Channel 2 and they keep wanting more gain.  I keep the gain on that channel at 5 and I can get those tones without any problem.  I have no problem getting the same amount of sustain and squeals with that lower gain setting.  It's all in how you play and learning to control the equipment.  The ADA works the same way for me.  Now I don't play Death Metal or anything super heavy, but for Judas Priest or Ozzy or Van Halen or Ratt or Led Zeppelin or any of that kind of stuff you don't need to set the OD's on the ADA more 4 or 5, 6 tops.

As far as Power Amps.  Honestly after I A/B'd them all the Carvin DCM200L is what's in my rack right now.  It sounds pretty much identical to the Peavey Classic 50/50 tube amp and it's only 1 rack space and it only weighs like 4lbs.  It's 100w per channel into 8 or 4 ohms.  I run into 4 - 1x12 cabinets.  I stack them up like the ADA Split Stack cabinets so they are like having 2 - 2x12 Vertical Cabinets.  1x12 cabs are so light and easy to carry :)  It's plenty loud too and I like to play loud.  No problem getting over a drummer or cutting through the mix.  I have them all with 8 ohm speakers so I'm running it down to 4 ohms per channel.  Now if you're running 16 ohm 4x12 cabs then you might look at another option.
Couldn't agree more, the older I get the more I've been backing off the distortion (my old rhythm sound is now my super over the top lead, used sparingly..), it's really all in the fingers...tubes do help BTW the New sensor Mullards (short and long plate versions) are very 3D and I'd proffer would suit your playing (I love them, they reflect every nuance in your fretting, you can hear every subtle pressure difference).  Glad you like the DCM200L, I've not used one but they seemed a very good (and very light) amp for the ADA pre-amps, and only 1RU
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jarrodthebobo

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Re: BBE Sonic Maximizer: Necessary?
« Reply #25 on: Time Format »

WEll I typically use my BBE rather conservatively and really do not like pulling the process knob anywhere above 9 o clock, personally at least. However, I've used the BBE in a bit of a jam session with a drummer and singer friend of mine and had no problems with the mix at all (Although I do tend to add quite a few bit of mids in my rane 15 band...). I also ALWAYS play loud enough to shake the lighting fixtures in my basement, so I'm definitely not playing at bedroom volume  ;D

I've been farting around with my setup a bit more now, and to my ears, what the BBE is doing is spreading out the sound more or less. When I play without the BBE engaged, all the frequencies kind of just seem condensed into the middle (and thus the mp-1 sounds SUPER middy and muddy). The BBE seems to pull all the other frequencies away from this 'middle point' and helps everything sound a bit more defined... I guess some can interpret this as removing the mid frequencies...

I wish to do a bit of a 'better' video in the future comparing the BBE and ADA together with and without the BBE on. That last video I did arguably sucked quite a bit and my playing was less than fantastic xD. I kind of just want to show that the BBE does not make your tone sound processed per say unless you really crank the knobs, really. I can still get a very organic sounding VH tone with the BBE on, whereas many people I see on forums and reviews say it completely 'digitizes' your sound...

I wanna do something for you guys... hahah, any suggestions? :thumb-up:
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rnolan

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Re: BBE Sonic Maximizer: Necessary?
« Reply #26 on: Time Format »

I wanna do something for you guys... hahah, any suggestions? :thumb-up:
Try it in stereo  :thumb-up: >:D
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El Chiguete

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Re: BBE Sonic Maximizer: Necessary?
« Reply #27 on: Time Format »

As far as Power Amps.  Honestly after I A/B'd them all the Carvin DCM200L is what's in my rack right now.  It sounds pretty much identical to the Peavey Classic 50/50 tube amp and it's only 1 rack space and it only weighs like 4lbs.

So what you are saying is that the Carving isn't a transparent poweramp but has a tube amp flavor? or that the Peavey even that it was a tube amp didn't added the tube characteristics to your tone?
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realdealblues

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Re: BBE Sonic Maximizer: Necessary?
« Reply #28 on: Time Format »

As far as Power Amps.  Honestly after I A/B'd them all the Carvin DCM200L is what's in my rack right now.  It sounds pretty much identical to the Peavey Classic 50/50 tube amp and it's only 1 rack space and it only weighs like 4lbs.

So what you are saying is that the Carving isn't a transparent poweramp but has a tube amp flavor? or that the Peavey even that it was a tube amp didn't added the tube characteristics to your tone?

Well, there's two things going on there I should clarify. 

First off, the Peavey 50/50 has EL84 tubes which will not have the tone or power of EL34 or 6L6's.  It's a different sound, but still has that touch of tube warmth.

Second, the Carvin DCM200L has an EQ Expand Button on the front of the unit which adjusts the amplifier to work better in a Guitar Rig.  I think it even says in the manual if you're using it in a Guitar situation to push the button in.  Anyway, it adjusts some of the frequencies to give kind of a Mosfet thing where it attempts to make the sound more tube like and warm.  Now, with the EQ Expand Button "Out" it is a transparent SS amp that you could use for a PA. 

If I run the Carvin with the BBE, I leave the EQ Expand "Out" and shape the tone with the BBE, but you could easily run the Carvin without the BBE and use the EQ Expand button on the Carvin and sound very much like you're using a tube amp. 

When I A/B'd the Carvin against the Peavey 50/50 and used the EQ Expand on the Carvin it was pretty much the exact same sound.
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rnolan

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Re: BBE Sonic Maximizer: Necessary?
« Reply #29 on: Time Format »

Do they say anywhere what the eq expand actually does ? (what freq's it affects etc).  When I was researching the DCM100 (the previous version which has the same eq switch), all it said in the manual (Carvin manuals don't have much in them...) was it was good for studio enhancement (as their pitch for that amp was it was a good amp for studio monitors). Nothing else and nothing about guitar.  Not that it bothered me too much as I like Carvin amps, they've been a leader in super lite, high power, transparent switched power supply poweramps for years (first we ever got in Australia).  I couldn't believe how lite they were, when they first came out (many years ago), you could pick up a 2RU 1200 w amp with your little finger, this is back when a 1000w power amp weighed more than Dante's car, and I used to lug racks of 3 or 4 of them.
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