ADA Depot - A Forum To Support Users of ADA Amplification Gear

ADA Preamps => MP-2 => Topic started by: rickeb1 on September 15, 2014, 07:52:59 PM

Title: New MP-2, need some help!
Post by: rickeb1 on September 15, 2014, 07:52:59 PM
As I posted in another thread, I just won an auction for an MP-2, and it arrived today.  I didn't have a lot of time, so I first ran through some of the presets that were already in the unit.  Nothing really grabbed me, so I thought I'd try rnolan's patches that he posted in the MP-2 patches section.  I programmed in his rhythm and lead patches, and they worked just fine.  Then I programmed his clean patch, but when I was done, I got absolutely no sound at all from unit, just dead silence.  Is there something I'm missing or that I need to do that would be obvious to an experienced MP-2 user?  Hopefully, I'm just missing a setting somewhere and it's not a problem with the unit!

Thanks!

~ Rick
Title: Re: New MP-2, need some help!
Post by: El Chiguete on September 15, 2014, 08:43:20 PM
Dont know about the MP-2 but on the MP-1 when you go from one voicing to the other the Master Volume goes down to 0 but the other gain settings stay as before, so check is that happends to you?
Title: Re: New MP-2, need some help!
Post by: kawai2g4b on September 15, 2014, 09:13:44 PM
I may not be a qualified repair tech but I suggest that you have a bad spot on the compressor circuitry.  Assuming all patch parameters are programmed correctly, the big difference would be that the clean patch has the compressor on.  I say this because my 2nd MP-2 has a bad component on the compressor.  I get ultra loud buzzing but your condition can just as easily happen.  Have you tried scrolling through all the factory presets to see if the same voicing (ie spanky clean) has the same problem?
Title: Re: New MP-2, need some help!
Post by: rickeb1 on September 15, 2014, 09:25:27 PM
Wow, you guys are amazingly quick to help, thank you!

Yup, you hit the nail on the head.  I had just gone back to see what was different between the patches that worked and the clean patch that didn't, and I found that turning the compressor off gave me sound, while turning the compressor on resulted in silence.  As I was scrolling through the patches when I first plugged in the unit, I noticed some that were also silent, and some that just gave a loud, low-pitched buzz when I hit the strings.  I had planned on revisiting them later, but now I'm concerned that I have gotten a faulty unit.  :(  Is there a simple fix for the compressor issue (I expect there isn't)?

Thanks!

~ Rick
Title: Re: New MP-2, need some help!
Post by: kawai2g4b on September 15, 2014, 10:00:56 PM
Well as mine is going in for modding, I'll let you know.  In the meantime I just use it without the compressor.  I just use a Yamaha compressor pedal in front just in case I absolutely need it.  But in no way should it be restrictive to playing it while you wait to get it repaired.  Kind of funny how we have the EXACT same problem.  Yet sad at the same time.
Title: Re: New MP-2, need some help!
Post by: Systematic Chaos on September 16, 2014, 12:32:31 AM
When I got mine back in 2008 it had the same glitch.....turned out it was the SSM2120 Dual VCA in the compressor circuitry (http://adadepot.com/mods/ADA-MP2-input-stage_compressor_wah-filter.pdf) gone bad. (MP-2 load chart, lower left ; left front of the unit; U210 (http://adadepot.com/mods/ADA-MP2-loading-chart.pdf))
Obsolete ICs today, but you can find em from time to time on the bay or with MJMP who was able to stock some of all the obsolete parts/ICs used in the ADA MP preamps

I´m sure he´ll chime in in no time in this thread ;)
Title: Re: New MP-2, need some help!
Post by: MarshallJMP on September 16, 2014, 12:27:28 PM
Hey Systematic,glad to have you back,kinda missed you over here  :thumb-up:

Quick question,did your mp-2 "fixed" itself after while,i mean mine has the same problem,no sound when the comp is on,but after about 5 min it works normal.
Title: Re: New MP-2, need some help!
Post by: Systematic Chaos on September 16, 2014, 01:45:49 PM
IIRC I replaced the SSM2120 (U210) with a new one, that rectified the problem. At the same time I also replaced the CEM ICs to rectify the FX loop problems....
Remember that bunch of various obsolete ICs I ordered from China?? ;-)

...also good to be back in touch with all you crazy folks  :thumb-up: :thumb-up: :thumb-up:
Title: Re: New MP-2, need some help!
Post by: rickeb1 on September 16, 2014, 08:08:15 PM
What do you reckon it would cost to replace that SSM2120, and is MarshallJMP the place to get one?
Title: Re: New MP-2, need some help!
Post by: Systematic Chaos on September 16, 2014, 09:59:24 PM
Are you in the US? 10$ give or take...
>>eBay<< (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Analog-Devices-SSM-2120-Dual-dynamic-range-processor-dual-VCA-NEW-/271040582551?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3f1b471397)

If you´re in Europe, contact MJMP.

That IC in the MP2 should be socketed, so old one out - new one in. Walk in the park ;)
Title: Re: New MP-2, need some help!
Post by: kawai2g4b on September 17, 2014, 01:21:39 AM
Thank you Systemic for the post!  I just ordered mine and hopefully this is one thing my clumsy repair hand can fix.  :thumb-up:

Also some unneeded but necessary thanks to MarshallJMP for stockpiling these chips even though there are still a few in the US at the moment.  It helps give me the confidence to go out and play it constantly and not have to freak out about blowing obsolete components.  I know it is an understood thanks but what the hell!
Title: Re: New MP-2, need some help!
Post by: Systematic Chaos on September 17, 2014, 04:51:00 AM
attached a pic with the location of U210....
Title: Re: New MP-2, need some help!
Post by: rickeb1 on September 17, 2014, 05:10:37 AM
Quote
Thank you Systemic for the post!  I just ordered mine and hopefully this is one thing my clumsy repair hand can fix. 

+1!  Just ordered the chip, thank you so much for the link and the info on how to install it.  The folks on this forum are amazing, thank you all for your help!

~ Rick
Title: Re: New MP-2, need some help!
Post by: MarshallJMP on September 17, 2014, 01:18:36 PM
Keep us updated if it fixed the problem.
Title: Re: New MP-2, need some help!
Post by: rnolan on September 18, 2014, 07:52:56 AM
Hey Rick, hope the chip solves your issue, the clean patch I use has quite a bit of comp on it, I don't use comp for my other patches.  There's been some issues with comp/wah circuit and MP2 where it can take some time to work (5, 10, mins warm up), thankfully I've not experienced it but it's a strange one MJMP hasn't solved yet, but hopefully it's not your issue.
Cheers Richard
Title: Re: New MP-2, need some help!
Post by: rickeb1 on September 20, 2014, 01:30:21 PM
Well, I got the new SSM2120 chip today and was able to replace the old one without too much difficulty.  The chip is actually just to the left of the one pointed to in the photo from SC, and was a little tricky because it is almost completely covered by a circuit board above it.  Anyway, I put in the new chip, fired it up, and ... I still have the same problem: no sound at all from the unit with the compressor engaged.  :(  On top of that, I've discovered that the wah does not seem to work, either.  If I switch the wah in, no matter what I set it to, when I pick a note, all I get is a low buzzing noise.  So, no compressor and no wah.

I'm not sure what to do with this.  Part of me wants to make an issue of this with the eBay seller and try to return it for a refund.  On the other hand, it sounds good, I most likely wouldn't use the wah feature anyway, and I can probably live without the compressor.  But then if I ever sell it, I'll have to sell it for a lot less than I paid for it as I'd have to sell it as damaged goods to a degree.  I'll have to think about this...
Title: Re: New MP-2, need some help!
Post by: MarshallJMP on September 20, 2014, 03:30:09 PM
It seems U207 is busted since both the compressor and wah don't work.So i would try to replace it,use only the same opamp,the OPA2604AP,these are the only opamps that can handle +-24V!!!Since you're going to replace U207 i would also order an extra one for U205 because when one usually goes the other one goes too.
U207 is located just above the SSM2120 (U210)(a little on the left).See attached pdf.And U205 is located just above U207.Both opamps are in a socket so easy to replace.
Title: Re: New MP-2, need some help!
Post by: rickeb1 on September 20, 2014, 06:35:00 PM
Thank you very much for all the info, I guess I'll give it one more try!  Are U207 and U205 the same chip?
Title: Re: New MP-2, need some help!
Post by: Systematic Chaos on September 21, 2014, 12:09:20 AM
Sorry to hear you still got problems.....
But yap, both U205 and U207 are OPA2604AP.

Aaand....since it sure as hell happened/happens to all of f us  :facepalm: Watch the orientation of the ICs when replacing them  ;D
Title: Re: New MP-2, need some help!
Post by: rickeb1 on September 26, 2014, 01:04:37 PM
Ok, I received the new op amps and replaced U207, and if anything, it's gotten worse.  Not only did it not fix the issues with the compressor and wah, the volume seems to have dropped, and using any voices other than clean results in a lot of low hum, noise and feedback.  I think I give up on this thing, and will try to force the seller to take it back.  Very disappointing, as I was really hoping this unit would work out.
Title: Re: New MP-2, need some help!
Post by: RobbHell on September 26, 2014, 02:04:30 PM
Did you have good solder joints?  It has traces on both sides.
Title: Re: New MP-2, need some help!
Post by: rickeb1 on September 26, 2014, 02:23:44 PM
It was in a socket, so I just pulled the old one and put in the new one, being careful to keep the same orientation as SC pointed out.
Title: Re: New MP-2, need some help!
Post by: MarshallJMP on September 26, 2014, 02:33:55 PM
Do you also have this hum with the comp and wah switched off?Did you replace them both?
Title: Re: New MP-2, need some help!
Post by: rickeb1 on September 26, 2014, 05:37:16 PM
Yes, the hum is with both the comp and wah switched off.  I only replaced U207, but I did buy an extra IC, so I could replace U205 as well.  Would that be worth trying?
Title: Re: New MP-2, need some help!
Post by: MarshallJMP on September 27, 2014, 04:54:40 AM
You can try it to see if it will work but with the comp and wah off these are not in the signal chain,so i doubt this will be the cause of the hum.Did you check R913?

First try to measure the high voltage.Look at the pdf i attached,you will see the HV test point,measure between the chassis and this test point,it should read 190Vdc,if it's higher like more then 200V you should desolder one end of R913 and measure the resistance,this should be 240k,if not replace it with a 1/2W 240k metal film resistor.This usually gets rid of the hum.

So keep me updated.
Title: Re: New MP-2, need some help!
Post by: rickeb1 on September 27, 2014, 10:00:26 AM
Ok, I worked out the volume problem - totally my error, as I had it hooked up incorrectly in the back (there are a lot of jacks back there!).  So, the issue now is just the comp and the wah.  I will try replacing U205 and see if that helps.
Title: Re: New MP-2, need some help!
Post by: Systematic Chaos on September 27, 2014, 10:16:22 AM
Good to hear!! While you´re at it, do as MJMP suggested and replace R913...the MP-2 will be quieter in terms of hum/noise
Title: Re: New MP-2, need some help!
Post by: MarshallJMP on September 27, 2014, 03:35:40 PM
Like SC says try it out anyway,do those measurements,if they are good,fine,if not replace the R913.

Ok keep us updated
Title: Re: New MP-2, need some help!
Post by: rickeb1 on September 27, 2014, 06:17:45 PM
Well, I replaced U205, and if anything, I think it made it worse.  :(  As far as taking measurements and replacing soldered components, it's way beyond my abilities, I'm afraid.  I think at this point I need to have someone much more competent than I take a look at this thing.  MarshallJMP is The Man, but since I'm in the States, is there anyone closer to home who could look at it?  RobbHell maybe?

Thanks again to all of you for your continuing help with these problems, I am very grateful!

~ Rick
Title: Re: New MP-2, need some help!
Post by: Systematic Chaos on September 28, 2014, 12:40:39 AM
Trullmon (Matt Trull) still around here??? IIRC he fixed Dante's and Adam's MP-2...he's in the US, so you might wanna get in touch with him...
I don't have his ctc-details but I think Dante has....
Title: Re: New MP-2, need some help!
Post by: MarshallJMP on September 28, 2014, 09:07:33 AM
What do you mean by worse?
Title: Re: New MP-2, need some help!
Post by: rickeb1 on September 29, 2014, 03:53:32 PM
I think that the noise/hum on the higher gain voicings seems worse than when I started.  On the hand, at this point I'm not really sure what it was like to start with, so maybe the noise has been there all along (and it's really bad).
Title: Re: New MP-2, need some help!
Post by: rnolan on September 30, 2014, 04:39:03 AM
Hey Rick, when you run the higher gain MP2 settings, it's a good idea to dial in a bit of the noise gate (noise reduction), turn on, increase the threshold value until the noise stops, you can also adjust how the gate works e.g fade down, or just cut the signal.  I find the 10 High Gain voice pretty much has to have the NR on even for lower master vol rhythm patches. Check out my old rhythm patch in MP2 patches for an example.  Maybe this is all it is ??
Cheers Richard
Title: Re: New MP-2, need some help!
Post by: Systematic Chaos on September 30, 2014, 05:08:41 AM
...this calls for the MP2 Noise Mod
Title: Re: New MP-2, need some help!
Post by: rnolan on September 30, 2014, 05:10:02 AM
Mmm, SC I think you are right  :thumb-up:
Title: Re: New MP-2, need some help!
Post by: MarshallJMP on September 30, 2014, 08:35:37 AM
Try to measure the high voltage like i said,this way you can rule out the R913 problem.Now mp-2's are noisy so it could be normal.
Title: Re: New MP-2, need some help!
Post by: rnolan on October 01, 2014, 03:41:47 AM
Now mp-2's are noisy so it could be normal.
+1  :thumb-up:
Title: Re: New MP-2, need some help!
Post by: gb on October 09, 2014, 02:47:23 PM
Im having the same issue as most know but mine is with the wah after a while it comes good though but can be intermittent throughout. Would one of the ICs mentioned above help with my issue if I replaced or is mine still one of those mysteries hahaha   :banana-upsidedown:
Title: Re: New MP-2, need some help!
Post by: rnolan on October 10, 2014, 02:14:42 AM
Hey gb, that sounds like the issue MJMP has worked hard on but still hasn't found a solution (compressor/wah issues, though my understanding is it's ok after 10 mins or so).  Hopefully it's not the same though (as your is intermittent) and something can be done to help.
Title: Re: New MP-2, need some help!
Post by: gb on October 11, 2014, 03:35:34 PM
Hey gb, that sounds like the issue MJMP has worked hard on but still hasn't found a solution (compressor/wah issues, though my understanding is it's ok after 10 mins or so).  Hopefully it's not the same though (as your is intermittent) and something can be done to help.

thanks rnolan!. Strangely enough I swapped the 2 ICs mentioned above around in my unit and noticed one of them felt like a loose fit. Nowhere locally has these ICs so I thought id try this. Surely enough a few times now when I switch the unit on after being off cold it works straight away and no intermittent startup or splutterimg for the first 10mins. Yet to keep playing as im focusing on my mp1 for now. Ill give it sometime before Ill know. I dont know if environment makes a difference. Last time I turned on the unit was winter now its spring.  The unit seemed to xome good when it warmed up after 5mins etc. Previously. So *shrug. This seems promising though or maybe im grasping at straws haha
Title: Re: New MP-2, need some help!
Post by: rnolan on October 11, 2014, 09:42:06 PM
Yeh spring, tell me about it, Canberra is the hay fever capital of the world it seems...  windy and lots of pollen flying around  :facepalm:
Well hope your MP2 stays good.
Cheers R
Title: Re: New MP-2, need some help!
Post by: gb on October 15, 2014, 07:43:23 PM
Yeh spring, tell me about it, Canberra is the hay fever capital of the world it seems...  windy and lots of polalthoughng around  :facepalm:
Well hope your MP2 stays good.
Cheers R

Did the OP sort out the issue. I think mine is solved by unplugging and replugging those 2 ICs.which is awesome. It was very suspicious that the IC was loose and not in the socket 100%.  ive been playing with it all week (the mp2). Sounds fantastic although in a band (rehearsal) situation sounds too synthetic for my liking.  I love my mp1 as it sounds more like an amp rather than a 'proccessor'. Might have to let this one go after a while once I get more time to play with and make sure. . Definitely feature packed but my mp1 while less featured still does it for me.  i hope the OP solved his issue!!!
Title: Re: New MP-2, need some help!
Post by: rnolan on October 16, 2014, 02:42:43 AM
Hey George, make sure I get first dibs if you want to sell it  :thumb-up:
I know what you mean with the sound difference MP1/2, I get to listen to my old MP1 as MikeB is playing with me regularly and it sounds great.  I had my sound with it and now have my sound with MP2.  When I had a blast through the MP1 recently, I loved it but understood why some like 3TM with more gain, as MP2 has more gain (but then needs NR gate to tame the big high gain voices).  I've settled in the middle with 5. Warm Vintage voice, my rhythm patch (see MP2 patches) should suit the stuff you do and doesn't sound like a processor (but does sound heaps better (to me) than lots of other amps/options).
When I first got the MP2 we were playing lots of covers (like we've talked about Poison etc) and I had quite a few sounds dialed up for various songs (similar with MP1 BTW).  Now I use 3 sounds (as posted) and the CC volume pedal.  What tubes are in your MP2 ? The Mullards long plate have really brought mine alive.
Cheers R
Title: Re: New MP-2, need some help!
Post by: rickeb1 on October 16, 2014, 07:49:36 AM
Did the OP sort out the issue.

No, not so far. :(  To net it out, the problems are that the compressor doesn't work and neither does the wah, even after replacing some ICs.  And, there seems to be abnormally high levels of noise on gain voicings.  I'm hoping Dante can hook me up with Trullmon here in the U.S., who doesn't seem to be a member here anymore.  If not, next step is to ask MarshallJMP if he would allow me to send it to him to take a look and perform his magic!

~ Rick
Title: Re: New MP-2, need some help!
Post by: MarshallJMP on October 16, 2014, 11:13:18 AM
For me no problem. :thumb-up:
Title: Re: New MP-2, need some help!
Post by: gb on October 16, 2014, 02:23:50 PM
Sorry to hear that OP. Im still playing with mine to make sure solved.

Haha rnolan no worries!!!.. for another thread but im starting to think part of my problem is im using vht 2902 which is extremely neutral/sterile and (kt88s) very tight and focused, for all my preamps.. Im trying to find something else to try like el34 or 6l6.

Title: Re: New MP-2, need some help!
Post by: rnolan on October 17, 2014, 01:26:26 AM
Hey George, Carvin TS100 is a good choice, Pro Audio (Canberra) is the Carvin distributor for Australia, Ivan (the owner) gave me a great price on mine so if you want to go that way I can help you out, I've known him/them forever.
Also if you want, come visit and try mine to hear if you like them, my B200s needs fixing, but I can borrow MikeBs B200s also for you to try.  One aspect of the Carvin I like (and I like lots of things about it) is they can be bought brand new. Mine came with 6L6s but the can also run EL34s, there's a switch for each channel to pick, so you can even have 6L6s on one channel and EL34s on the other (but not in bridge mode).
Cheers R
Title: Re: New MP-2, need some help!
Post by: Hanneman213 on October 23, 2015, 04:19:14 AM
I have the same problem.I've posted in another topic also, but I really wonder, if comp/wah problem is fixed or not.
Title: Re: New MP-2, need some help!
Post by: rnolan on October 24, 2015, 07:31:41 AM
Well since I now have gbs MP2, it seems to be fine, comp was working tonight on my clean patch(s), I'll test the wah more tomorrow, it seemed to be working but now I've programmed my old auto wah patch, but haven't tried it yet.
Title: Re: New MP-2, need some help!
Post by: rickeb1 on October 26, 2015, 10:49:18 AM
My apologies, I just realized that I never followed-up with the end result to the issues with my MP-2.  The short answer is (and you can probably guess this), I sent the unit off to MarshallJMP, who fixed it all up and it is now working perfectly!  Don't ask me what exactly he did, as I don't know.  I'm just very happy that he is here helping so many of us!

~ Rick
Title: Re: New MP-2, need some help!
Post by: rnolan on October 27, 2015, 02:46:16 AM
Hmmm MJMP, what did you do ? :dunno:
Title: Re: New MP-2, need some help!
Post by: 2handband on November 22, 2015, 03:30:14 PM
I'll second that question... I'm fixing to recondition my MP2 which has multiple issues and the more info the better.
Title: Re: New MP-2, need some help!
Post by: rnolan on November 23, 2015, 01:32:51 AM
Hey 2Handband, welcome to the depot  :thumb-up: May I suggest you start a topic in the MP2 section (http://adadepot.com/index.php?board=3.0) and detail the "multiple" issues your having and we can work through them with you.

@MJMP what did you do ?  :dunno: apart from weave your magic LoL
Title: Re: New MP-2, need some help!
Post by: MarshallJMP on November 23, 2015, 02:19:15 PM
Well i don't know anymore  :o did so many repairs so it hard to remember them all.
Title: Re: New MP-2, need some help!
Post by: rnolan on November 25, 2015, 02:46:50 AM
(I'm just very happy that he is here helping so many of us!) +1  :thumb-up:
Title: Re: New MP-2, need some help!
Post by: GuitarBuilder on November 25, 2015, 06:28:29 AM
Well i don't know anymore  :o did so many repairs so it hard to remember them all.

I'll bet a Triple Karmeliet will jog his memory!   :banana-upsidedown: :banana-rasta: :banana-dance:
Title: Re: New MP-2, need some help!
Post by: MarshallJMP on November 26, 2015, 08:12:34 AM
Well i don't know anymore  :o did so many repairs so it hard to remember them all.

I'll bet a Triple Karmeliet will jog his memory!   :banana-upsidedown: :banana-rasta: :banana-dance:

I got a feeling that would make it worse,but i can always try  :lol: