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[Casey_Butt]

I have a Crazy idea here.   I am still undecided on which eq to buy.  Digital parametric,  analog parametric , or analog graphic.   Something draws to the Samson S Curve 131 analog graphic.   I would simply put it in the loop, dail up the best tone I could get and basically forget about it.  One trick poney.  Now with the  Samson 215 graphic,  I was wondering ...could I use its 2 channels independently by plugging guitar into channel A, using it as a pre distortion eq and then using channel B in the loop as a post distortion eq?  Is this a stupid idea?  Should I just forget obout graphic completely and just go Parametric?

I'd expect both channels of just about any rack EQ to be line level and fairly low impedance (~50 kohm).  In other words, it will work well in a line level effects loop but won't work well with your guitar plugged directly into it.

[Systematic Chaos]

I was just about to write the same.....
You would need a stomp box like a Boss GEQ7 or an MXR 10band to put it up front.
Also, setting it up the way you thought would be a fixed EQ in front of all your presets...SS, TC and TD....sounds kinda "limiting" to me

[Metropolis]

Yea...I agree.  I dont really know how much advantage I would gain from a parametric in the loop but without spending a ton whats a good one?

[Casey_Butt]

An EQ in the loop is really just like an external tone stack.  Look at it like giving your amp more sophisticated and tweakable tone controls... because that's really what you're doing when you put an EQ in the loop.

An EQ up front is more like a distortion/overdrive shaping device.  Almost all overdrive/distortion pedals have some sort of tone shaping built in.  Think of the mid-hump a Tube Screamer or Boss OD or SD-1 has.  The MXR Dist+, DoD 250, etc, all shape the tone to some extent before applying the signal clipping.  By using an EQ in front of your preamp you're shaping the signal that hits the distortion circuitry in a similar way.

I think probably the most famous MP-1 tones were manipulated both with EQ before the preamp and afterwards... Mike Wagener has said that he used a Furman PQ-3 as a mild mid/treble boost in front of his MP-1 at Double Trouble Studios (where Extreme, Skid Row, etc, recorded), and a 9-band graphic EQ afterwards.  So ADA preamps have a long and famous history of being used with both EQs before and after.

[Systematic Chaos]

Yea...I agree.  I dont really know how much advantage I would gain from a parametric in the loop but without spending a ton whats a good one?

Lots of good stuff can be found for pretty cheap.....
Alex Lifeson used Behringer PEQ2200. That´s a 5band parametric that´s pretty solid.

John Petrucci had that DOD SR830Q I mentioned in an earlier post in his 20th anniv. Tour rig.....The tones he got on Score are among his best ever.....

Mark Tremonti uses a Behringer Ultracurve Pro DEQ2496......

Boogie even released their famous 5band EQ that´s featured on the Mark series amps as a stand alone foot pedal...

Can´t go that wrong if you stick with the tried and tested stuff 

[rnolan]

If you do decide to buy an eq, get an analogue eq (or your lovely analogue MP1 signal will be converted to digital and back, which doesn't sound as good (see other posts re MikeBs rig with TC GMaj)). Parrametric gives you more control than graphic as you can select centre frequency and bandwidth, with graphic they are both set.  That said, graphic eqs' optimised for guitar (e.g. 5 band boogie SC mentioned) make sense. The centre frequencies are set for guitar rather than the ISO standard points used for full range PA/studio graphics (e.g. 3rd octave 31 band).

Can´t go that wrong if you stick with the tried and tested stuff 

+1 

[Metropolis]

Thanks to everyone for your replies... they have been very informative and inspirational.  However my quest for knowledge continues before I do actually make my purchase.  How should I have the MP1 tone stack set when begining to tweek the parametric eq.  I mean... should I begin with my MP1 patches as they are and tweek the parametric or should I set the MP1 tone stack to 555555 etc and then tweek the parametric.   My main disappointment is that with an analog parametric,  I only have the one setting.  I would have to physically turn the knobs to change up the tone.  With a digital parametric,  I could have several preset curves and use midi to change them up along with the MP1 patches and my Intellifex patches.  But the digital parametric is gonna screw with my core MP1 analog tone,  so I'm not sure which direction to go yet.

[gtmm]

Metropolis,

The first rule is to listen to the sound.

If it was me, I would first get the best tone you can get out of your preamp and only use the external eq to either whittle away what you don't like, or reinforce what you do like.

One can't anticipate this. It comes with playing and familiarity of many details.

Don't worry about it so much -- play, listen, and let your ears guide you.

[Metropolis]

Sounds good.... thank you for the insight!  I will certainly enjoy the process of tone creation. 

[Soloist]

I use a couple of parametric eq settings that are in my multi-fx units in the loop, however I also use a Boss GE-7 between my guitar and preamp. I boost the mids on the GE-7 and use it for Lynch or Boston anything nasally. The rest of the time its off and the multi-fx units parametrics are on.

[Systematic Chaos]

Just don´t start off at all Tone-Ctrls set to 5 .... 0 on the MP-1 equals 5/noon on standard amp knob 

[rnolan]

Very good point SC (though does vary amp to amp), as they go + and - so as SC says, 0 on MP1 eq is is flat. I'm with gtmm, I've never needed/wanted additional eq but if you do, get as close to the tone you want with MP1 eq and only add what you need. Also keep in mind that eqs' add and take away gain from the signal (albeit at specific frequencies) so the idea is to cut a bit if you boost a bit to have the eq running "unity" gain i.e. what goes in volts/level wise is what comes out (or you start to stuff your gain structure) but depending on the unit, this can be compensated for by the input and output level controls (not all have them). There are midi controllable analogue eqs (like the MP1 eq LOL, but also ADA MQ1 if you can find one). Also how much a digital eq stuffs your tone is very subjective (they try hard not to LOL and they are improving and I'm very picky/pedantic).
Also remember that volume make a huge difference due to the Flethcher Munchon curves. You ears hear the sound flat (as it is) at 98db (reasonably loud), at lower levels the mids are more dominant (most sensitive part of our hearing) so you need to boost bass and Treble (like a loudness button on stereo), above 98db the curves reverse and bass and treb appear louder (to your ears) than the mids.
Another interesting thing with ears is how octaves aren't exactly a doubling/halving of frequency the further you go in either direction, they wind in a bit (Hz wise) the further you go from your starting point (why pianos are generally tuned by ear either side of middle C)

[jarrodthebobo]

Just don´t start off at all Tone-Ctrls set to 5 .... 0 on the MP-1 equals 5/noon on standard amp knob 

Personally I'm not too sure that's 100%. The MP-1 has an active eq system which both BOOSTS frequencies as well as cutting them, whereas a passive eq system which most amplifiers use, only CUT the frequencies.

After a long time of stubbornly forcing myself to keep the mids above zero (as I've NEVER scooped mids before in my life, since I love the tone of a nice middy amp, and scooping would be sacrilege to me! ) I've finally realised that the way the eq works in the Mp-1 is WEIRD AS HELL versus what we're used to with normal amps  . A typical setting that I'd use on a standard say, Marshall amp is completely different from that of the MP-1.

for example, on the MP-1 I tend to keep all the EQ levels below 6ish on the mp-1, with the mids almost ALWAYS set below zero. You'd think that having the mids under zero would lead to a more scooped sound, but even at -6 the MP-1 still has a high mid content. Once again, I believe this is due to the fact that the MP-1 has an active EQ versus the passive we're used to. When we go above zero on the MP-1, we're BOOSTING a frequency, adding more of the specific frequency to the signal, whereas the negative numbers take AWAY those frequencies from a signal, kind of like how an external EQ would work. This would lead to the thought that keeping the eq levels low on the MP-1 would lead to a more natural sound as boosting frequencies typically doesn't sound as natural as cutting frequencies, but YMMV.

[rnolan]

Hey Jarrod, good input my friend and nice to hear from you (been a while  ). IIRC this is an area close to your heart/passion LOL. Jarrod is indeed correct, not all amps include cut, mostly boost (unless like some boogie amps etc, they have a graphic eq along with the tone controls) but depends on the amp (hence my earlier post), but in general SC is on the money... If you want an MP1 to sound great, turn it up to gig level (I know it's nice they can be turned down (to accommodate city living)) but they are designed/meant to be stage volume, and in my experience with both MP1 and 2 they don't need additional eq. That said, the 9 band graphic in the MP2 was/is a feature I use a little.
Active eq ? what do you mean ? there are a quite a few ways to make filters (eqs). The overriding comparison was between digital and analogue (hopefully midi programmable) eqs but yes there are active active and passive analogue eq circuits. Which sound better to you Jarrod ?? I do take your point that M1 eq is active (but still analogue).

[jarrodthebobo]

Hey Jarrod, good input my friend and nice to hear from you (been a while  ). IIRC this is an area close to your heart/passion LOL. Jarrod is indeed correct, not all amps include cut, mostly boost (unless like some boogie amps etc, they have a graphic eq along with the tone controls) but depends on the amp (hence my earlier post), but in general SC is on the money... If you want an MP1 to sound great, turn it up to gig level (I know it's nice they can be turned down (to accommodate city living)) but they are designed/meant to be stage volume, and in my experience with both MP1 and 2 they don't need additional eq. That said, the 9 band graphic in the MP2 was/is a feature I use a little.
Active eq ? what do you mean ? there are a quite a few ways to make filters (eqs). The overriding comparison was between digital and analogue (hopefully midi programmable) eqs but yes there are active active and passive analogue eq circuits. Which sound better to you Jarrod ?? I do take your point that M1 eq is active (but still analogue).

Hahaha I've been around, just havn't really decided to post much of anything till I saw this thread here 

But anyways, when it comes to the whole digital vs. analog debate, I don't have much I can really say on the matter. I believe analog sounds better than digital in SOME situations and completely depends upon the device being used and how it is being used. For instance, I really like the sound of my quadraverb which is a digital device, but digital chorus effects and EQs sound pretty 'meh' to me.

I think digital CAN sound as good as analog, it just depends upon how its being used, what the device is, and how high of quality that device is. However... the human ear hears in analog and not digital, so to me, analog will ALWAYS have a slightly upper hand...

When it comes to passive vs. active eq now, its all personal preference really. After my MP-1 I have a graphic eq (which would be an active device) which I use to fine tailor my sound. I wouldn't ever use a graphic eq to majorly shape the sound of my MP-1, but just tweak it to my own personal preferences. For example, depending on the cab I'm using I'll either boost very slightly or cut a bit around the 250hz and 400hz frequency in order to help either clear up some mud, or bring some body back into the sound (if the cab is particularly thin sounding). I find boosting above around 4-6db in any frequency begins to sound a bit unnatural and overproduced, so I tend to cut unwanted frequencies instead of boosting good frequencies as cutting tends to typically sound more natural and 'real' versus boosting.

And yes, turn those MP-1s up! They were meant to be played loud and proud and won't sound as good as they should at low volumes! Crank it up to stage level and let your walls shake hahah!