ADA Depot - A Forum To Support Users of ADA Amplification Gear

Let's Get Technical => All Things Tube => Tubes (preamp/Input/Buffer) => Topic started by: rickeb1 on August 14, 2015, 03:26:44 PM

Title: Tubes for 3TM?
Post by: rickeb1 on August 14, 2015, 03:26:44 PM
Hey guys, I have a MP-1 with the 3TM mod, and have been using the Sovtek LPS tubes in it.  I'm generally happy with them, but lately I've been thinking that maybe they are a bit harsh.  They do have a big sound and a lot of gain, which I like.  I've tried JJs, but I felt like they were too weak sounding.  I know Richard likes the Mullards in the MP-2 :), but I wonder how they might sound in a 3TM?  I'm thinking of trying Tung Sols, but I thought I'd check here to see what tubes others are using in their 3TMs.

Thanks!

~ Rick
Title: Re: Tubes for 3TM?
Post by: rnolan on August 14, 2015, 11:49:37 PM
Hey Rick, El and I were hassling MJMP to try some Mullards in a 3TM, I don't think he got round to it yet.  IIRC he likes the JJs. The Tung Sols wouldn't be a bad choice but from what you describe the Mullards should work well, they are known for taming harshness and are definitely not weak, plenty of warm body and silky highs. Or you could try a combination, maybe a Mullard in V1 may tame the harshness of the Sovteks. MikeB has a Mullard short plate in V1 and a JJ (Boogie SPAX7) in V2 in his MP1 and that works well.  I found the Mullard long plates really suit my playing and have really fallen for them (as most here know LoL).  I'd like to know how they sound in a 3TM, my guess is they would work well.

Cheers R
Title: Re: Tubes for 3TM?
Post by: MarshallJMP on August 16, 2015, 02:47:28 PM
Well i use JJ's but the Ruby ones (12AX7ACZ H.G.).Since they are tested by Ruby they will sound better then off the shelf JJ's.
Title: Re: Tubes for 3TM?
Post by: El Chiguete on August 16, 2015, 06:48:29 PM
Yep Marshall get around on doing the field test for the depot's sake! jeje
Title: Re: Tubes for 3TM?
Post by: Systematic Chaos on August 16, 2015, 10:51:49 PM
The TungSols, while being a really nice and bold sounding tube, tend to have a high fail rate in MP1s (there was some long thread on the old Depot....)

The closest current production tube to the original "Chinese Nationals" that the MP1 was designed around are TAD RT001 12AX7A-C.....I like them a lot in combination with NOS Blackburn Mullards.
FWIW, I have tested the tubes SC recommended: TAD 12AX7A-C RT001

I agree with SC, they sound very, very close to the original MP-1 tubes. Hope they last as long.

+1 also for the Mullard Reissues (long plates) which I would use in the 1st tube slot to set the "overall character" and then using the TAD in 2nd and 3rd....

The Sovtek LPS has only one good use in my book...that's the Phase Inverter in poweramp stages.
This is what the LPS does better than almost any other.....

Just my 2 €-cents
Title: Re: Tubes for 3TM?
Post by: MarshallJMP on August 17, 2015, 03:34:15 AM
Hey SC,the tung sols didn't have this problem but the EH's did have a big failure rate in the 3TM's way back.
Title: Re: Tubes for 3TM?
Post by: rickeb1 on August 26, 2015, 10:36:40 AM
Quote
Or you could try a combination, maybe a Mullard in V1 may tame the harshness of the Sovteks.

I'm taking Richard's and SC's advice, and have just received a Mullard long-plate that I will put in V1 and go from there!  Just to make sure, V1 on the 3TM board is the left-most tube on the board, closest to the front of the unit when mounted, correct?

Thanks!

~ Rick
Title: Re: Tubes for 3TM?
Post by: MarshallJMP on August 26, 2015, 12:48:24 PM
That's correct!
Title: Re: Tubes for 3TM?
Post by: rickeb1 on August 26, 2015, 05:54:07 PM
Ok, I put the new Mullard long-plate in V1, and to make it short, I am very happy!  It really did tame much of the harshness I was getting, while still having plenty of body and richness (which I was worried it wouldn't have).  I'm now debating about changing out the other 2 tubes, either for Tung Sol or the TADs that SC recommended.  Or maybe 2 more Mullards ;)  But I'm not in as much of a hurry since with the Mullard, it sounds very good right now.

In any case, you guys rock, thanks for all the great discussion and advice!

~ Rick
Title: Re: Tubes for 3TM?
Post by: El Chiguete on August 27, 2015, 05:15:53 AM
mmmmmmm it might be time for a Mullard change myself....
Title: Re: Tubes for 3TM?
Post by: rnolan on August 28, 2015, 04:31:03 AM
Hey El,  definitely worth a try to see if you like them.
@Rick, glad that worked for you  :thumb-up:  for 3TM you could also  try the short plates in V2/3
Title: Re: Tubes for 3TM?
Post by: El Chiguete on August 28, 2015, 05:11:41 AM
Can someone make a quick comparison of tone and use of the short plates vs the long ones?
Title: Re: Tubes for 3TM?
Post by: rabidgerry on September 04, 2015, 03:05:36 PM
The TungSols, while being a really nice and bold sounding tube, tend to have a high fail rate in MP1s (there was some long thread on the old Depot....)

The closest current production tube to the original "Chinese Nationals" that the MP1 was designed around are TAD RT001 12AX7A-C.....I like them a lot in combination with NOS Blackburn Mullards.
FWIW, I have tested the tubes SC recommended: TAD 12AX7A-C RT001

I agree with SC, they sound very, very close to the original MP-1 tubes. Hope they last as long.

+1 also for the Mullard Reissues (long plates) which I would use in the 1st tube slot to set the "overall character" and then using the TAD in 2nd and 3rd....

The Sovtek LPS has only one good use in my book...that's the Phase Inverter in poweramp stages.
This is what the LPS does better than almost any other.....

Just my 2 €-cents

I just ordered some TADS!!  uh now what models did I order..................shit I forgot I shall get back once I check into Thomann website again.

PS I like this SC

+1 also for the Mullard Reissues (long plates) which I would use in the 1st tube slot to set the "overall character" and then using the TAD in 2nd and 3rd....

This sounds like a great idea.  When I bought my TADS I specifically looked for what Thomann recommended in various slots.  I like the idea of one Mullard long plate in there!!  Might be worth a god dam TRY!!!
Title: Re: Tubes for 3TM?
Post by: rnolan on September 06, 2015, 02:06:12 AM
Hey RG, cool, let us know how they sound. :whoohoo!:
Title: Re: Tubes for 3TM?
Post by: rabidgerry on September 06, 2015, 08:15:55 AM
ok I ordered this

2x TAD RT008 TUBE ECC83 WA
1x TAD RT080 7025 WA

thoman says this:

TAD RT008 TUBE ECC83 WA
The TAD ECC83 WA emphesises the warm mids and produces a round sound with rich harmonics. Clean sounds are round and warm with a very good attack. Overdrive sounds stand out with powerfull mids.Smooth top end, full gain, fat mid range, tight low end, very low microphony, low noise, balanced systems, triple mica construction, replaces: 12AX7, 12AX7A/WA/WB/WC, ECC83, 7025

TAD RT080 7025 WA
TAD RT080 7025 WA Valve, preamp valve, ideal for critical input/V1 stage in guitar amps, select for sensitivity, creamy soft treble, full gain, fat mids, round and clear bass, abnormally low microphonic effect, low noise, symmetric systems. Replaces 12AX7, 12AX7A, -WA, - WB, -WC, ECC83, 7025, SPAX7-A. Useable as preamp valve for guitar amps including Diezel ("Pit Spezial"), Blackstar, Brunetti, ENGL, thomann Fender, Marshall, Mesa Boogie, Orange, etc.
Title: Re: Tubes for 3TM?
Post by: rabidgerry on September 10, 2015, 12:41:18 AM
well the TADs arrived, and I'm not impressed.  Tonally they are ok but the boldness is what I'm all about.

The first major noticeable thing is.............................the output!!

Holyshit compared to the tubes I had in there.

I had a bugera 12ax7b in V1 in then two HG Ruby Tubes in V2 and V3.

Uhhhh the difference is insane output that is.  Tonally they are different as well.

I have
1x TAD RT080 7025 WA in V1

and

2x TAD RT008 TUBE ECC83 WA in V2 and V3

I would describe it as chimey and kinda compressed.  At least  it feels that was, like the softest of touch gets response from the string.
That's cool.  But for me, they sound too weak.  I'm sure they could be EQ'd different but they really sound a bit thin for me although I could see them being off use to someone with different music style from me.

I have a recording to show the massive output difference!

I might stick in the  Bugera back into V1 and see how that sound with the 2x TAD RT008s

Failing that I'll put back in the Bugera and Rubys which I forgot aren't that old anyways and don't need changed.


Anyone know anything about Bugera Tubes?  I bought it cause it was cheap  :lol:  But I think it sounds goood!  They have another model as well but I dunno the difference.

I would say this is a bold tube, lots of that mid range cut through that I like!!  MID RANGE!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Tubes for 3TM?
Post by: rnolan on September 10, 2015, 05:06:20 AM
Hey RG, well that's edifying but disappointing  :facepalm: . It's probably worth just running up a new patch from scratch and try to get the best out of them (gain, eq etc) but I hear you, they would probably suit my playing more than yours (as you allude to, well not me specifically LoL). The Bugera tubes are just selected brands re-badged (and probably JJs ?). From your other posted links, they are short plates which I think will suit your playing better than the more 3D long plates ("the softest of touch gets response from the string" which I like  >:D ). I know it costs $s to tube roll (untill your happy), my recommendation (for what it's worth) would be either Mullard short plate (or long plate  >:D ) in V1 and your 2 Rubys' in V2/3. And maybe put the TAD RT008s' in your stock MP1 ?
Title: Re: Tubes for 3TM?
Post by: El Chiguete on September 10, 2015, 05:18:37 AM
The first major noticeable thing is.............................the output!!

Holyshit compared to the tubes I had in there.

I had a bugera 12ax7b in V1 in then two HG Ruby Tubes in V2 and V3.

Uhhhh the difference is insane output that is.

Maybe it needs toturn op the internal trimpots? This is just a wild guess of mine thinking that it could be a way to fine tune the characteristics/volume when changing to new tubes?
Title: Re: Tubes for 3TM?
Post by: rabidgerry on September 10, 2015, 05:46:38 AM
I just think the Tads I bought are lower gain so no trim pots needing adjusted.  I will still try the ones that SC said sound close to the original MP1 tubes.  RT001S i THINK.

I was just trying these tubes BTW, I am happy with the Bugera ruby combo.

I was thinking the Bugera tubes are rebadged.  Rebadged what though?  The look different from JJ's to me.  I sold the last JJ's a bought as they sounded like shit, which is weird since Ruby's are JJ's as well.

Anyways  Bugera got back and said this:


Thank you for contacting us.


12AX7A= tubes with ultra-low microphonic and audio must be used in the specified first pre-amplifier stage of Bugera amp models.
 

12AX7B= tubes with super-low microphonic and audio noise used in the second pre-amplifier stage in Bugera amp models.

Hope this helps.


Which is fairly useless to me, but it must mean that they make one to suit V1 and the other to suit V2.  So this means the Bugera I own is a V2 tube but I'm using it in V2, and it sounds pretty gutsy to me!!
Title: Re: Tubes for 3TM?
Post by: rnolan on September 10, 2015, 06:59:21 AM
The vagaries of tubes LoL. Like I said in previous posts, all of these tubes are selected for low noise/microphonics and high(ish) gain, there's also matched triodes etc. In the end they all sound different. Most are re-badged something (Boogie, GT, Ruby et al), there are only a limited number of tube manufactures, Tesla (JJs, Slovakia), New Sensor (made in Reflector Factory Russia and they make a bunch of other brands (e.g. Tung Sol etc), Chinese Tubes (quite a few, TADs? Shugung whatever). In the end IMO, short or long plate matters (I've found that long plates are more 3D (doesn't suit everyone though)). We all react differently to our tubes (depends so much on how you play), it makes more sense to me to compare them like guitar strings as they are all low noise, high gain blah blah, well how do they sound, in my preamp, with the way I play and which ones to avoid (e.g. Sovtecks, EVs).

So what I'm getting at here is that the various tube testers (re-sellers/branders (Boogie, GT, Ruby, Bugera etc)) are just concerned with low noise/micophonics high gain with little emphasis on "how the f&ck" do they sound (which BTW will vary in every circuit). I suppose at least we are trying to compare the different sounds in the same preamps but then playing style is very important.
Title: Re: Tubes for 3TM?
Post by: rabidgerry on September 10, 2015, 07:11:44 AM
Yeah Richard, if you read my post I said, they're probably re-badged, but rebadged what?  How can we find these things out.

And what is the difference in Bugeras A model and B model?  They didn't give me much to go on.  Actually I might have read they make their own tubes recently now that I think about it???????????  Oh no wait that was they make their own paper for their own brand speakers which is different!!

I think they're a decent tube from what I can hear so there one I'm keeping on my usable list.

How many actual brands of tube are there?

I think you are right though, there no point in actual analysis really, because one mans great hi gain tube is another mans muddy piece of crap and that all comes down to equipment being used and the players style.

Title: Re: Tubes for 3TM?
Post by: MarshallJMP on September 10, 2015, 08:43:34 AM
Here you can see what brand of tube it is,look at the pics of the tubes themselfs,you will see the differences.

https://www.amplifiedparts.com/tech_corner/12ax7_comparison_of_current_made_tubes

As for brands,well to my knowledge there are only 3 big players around anymore.EI was closed 2 years ago,so that leaves;

JJ from the slovak republic

Russian tubes like sovtek,EH,mullard RI ,tung sol and now also svetlana

And the Chinese tubes
Title: Re: Tubes for 3TM?
Post by: rnolan on September 11, 2015, 12:16:41 AM
The Bugeras look similar to the TADs (my guess) which are Chinese tubes (as were the original tubes ADA used).
Title: Re: Tubes for 3TM?
Post by: rabidgerry on September 11, 2015, 02:31:02 AM
Here you can see what brand of tube it is,look at the pics of the tubes themselfs,you will see the differences.

https://www.amplifiedparts.com/tech_corner/12ax7_comparison_of_current_made_tubes

As for brands,well to my knowledge there are only 3 big players around anymore.EI was closed 2 years ago,so that leaves;

JJ from the slovak republic

Russian tubes like sovtek,EH,mullard RI ,tung sol and now also svetlana

And the Chinese tubes

from this tiny little pictures I would never be able to identify the Bugera Tubes.  And if any of you guys are THAT good, then my hats off to you.  It doesn't look like he TAD to me.  So many look the same.
Title: Re: Tubes for 3TM?
Post by: rnolan on September 11, 2015, 04:16:11 AM
It isn't easy to tell (hence "my guess"). They are definitely short plates (that's obvious) and seemed very similar in construction with the TADs (IMO/guess from the pics). It's also possible that Bugera designed the tube(s) ("conceived and designed by Bugera Germany") and have them made to their specs, as did ADA to some extent.  My understanding is that New Sensor (a US company who now own the brand names of a variety of well known tubes (e.g. Mullard, Tung Sol etc.) get them made to their (or original) specs in Russia at the Reflector Corp factory. (http://www.ominous-valve.com/russtube.html)
Title: Re: Tubes for 3TM?
Post by: MarshallJMP on September 11, 2015, 05:35:54 PM
Here you can see what brand of tube it is,look at the pics of the tubes themselfs,you will see the differences.

https://www.amplifiedparts.com/tech_corner/12ax7_comparison_of_current_made_tubes

As for brands,well to my knowledge there are only 3 big players around anymore.EI was closed 2 years ago,so that leaves;

JJ from the slovak republic

Russian tubes like sovtek,EH,mullard RI ,tung sol and now also svetlana

And the Chinese tubes

from this tiny little pictures I would never be able to identify the Bugera Tubes.  And if any of you guys are THAT good, then my hats off to you.  It doesn't look like he TAD to me.  So many look the same.

Well if you look carefully you can see the difference.The easiest tubes to recognise are chinese tubes,see pic.They always use some kind of spacer that other tubes don't have.
Title: Re: Tubes for 3TM?
Post by: rabidgerry on September 13, 2015, 02:16:20 AM
I hope it's ok to post my tests of the tubes here.  If not someone can move them  :thumb-up:

First Clip, is all 3 Tads

I have
1x TAD RT080 7025 WA in V1

and

2x TAD RT008 TUBE ECC83 WA in V2 and V3

just short clip

The second clip is Bugera 12ax7b in V1 and the

2x TAD RT008 TUBE ECC83 WA in V2 and V3

This combo instantly made it sound like it was before with my old Bugera Ruby Ruby combo that I took out in order to try the TADS


Note the massive volume difference

same patch used both times, everything was the same except the tube change.  Listening back tonally they are not as different as they seemed whilst playing, which is bizarre but I guess then it was a "feel" thing.  I definitely think Bugera tube is Bolder tonally.
Title: Re: Tubes for 3TM?
Post by: rabidgerry on September 13, 2015, 03:32:44 AM
Trying to upload more clips here of the all Tad combo and the Bugera/Tad combo and it will not let me.  Richard I pm'd you man.

Clips are 13.9mb and 12. something mb.
Title: Re: Tubes for 3TM?
Post by: MarshallJMP on September 13, 2015, 10:23:11 AM
They both sound great and like you say not so much difference in sound.

Maybe try to upload mp-3's in stead of wav files?
Title: Re: Tubes for 3TM?
Post by: rabidgerry on September 13, 2015, 11:43:57 AM
ok its letting me post mp3 but still no wav

what an arse!

this is all TADs again with a riff sequence and mess around
Title: Re: Tubes for 3TM?
Post by: rabidgerry on September 13, 2015, 11:45:33 AM
and the same but with bugera at the front of the TADS
Title: Re: Tubes for 3TM?
Post by: Harley Hexxe on September 19, 2015, 11:15:03 AM
Hey Gang,

      For what it's worth, here's my 2 cents on it:
       I tried a pair of RI Mullards in my MP-1 Classic last year, and they fizzled out after 3 months. Not something I'll waste any more money on.
    I then called Doug's Tubes and ordered long plate JJ's for it, and it sounds decent, but I'm still looking for more bottom end and warmer low mids like I used to get with the GT 12AX7R-2's.
    In my 3TM, I ordered Ruby Tubes 12AX7/AC7 HG tubes, and they knock the 3TM out of the park! Pricey, but great tone, and still going.
   There are a lot of interesting tubes at Dougs that I'm going to be trying out, for example: Penta 12AX7's I put in my original MP-1. I'm still messing with that one, but they sound like they might also give me what I'm looking for in the Classic too.

Harley 8)
Title: Re: Tubes for 3TM?
Post by: rabidgerry on October 22, 2015, 03:32:25 AM
For all those who are interested

I managed to snare another bugera 12ax7b and I also bagged a 12ax7a.

I've only used a B model before and I know I like it in position 1.

According to Bugera A is actually for P1 and B is for P2.  Now I've only used B in P1  :lol:  just goes to show you there are no rules.  Their website does say they are good in any position, but the info from a tech guy said A for P1 and B for P2.

Anyways  I'll try A in place of B in P1 and see what I notice.  Also  I intend to put both of these in my stock MP1 in P1 and P2.  I like that 12AX7 b model so much though that I might experiment with it and my Rockmaster preamps and try them in those units in P1.  Currently I have an EHX in P1 of one rockmaster and the rest are th original chinese tubes.  Other Rockmaster has Groove Tubes as far as I know.

Hopefully get some time to test soon!
Title: Re: Tubes for 3TM?
Post by: Harley Hexxe on October 24, 2015, 05:17:52 PM
Hey Gang,

     Okay, I have to ask this since I am never sure about it. Which is the V1 position, towards the back of the preamp, or the front?

     Thanks,
   
      Harley 8)
Title: Re: Tubes for 3TM?
Post by: MarshallJMP on October 24, 2015, 05:38:16 PM
Towards the front.
Title: Re: Tubes for 3TM?
Post by: rabidgerry on October 26, 2015, 08:04:22 AM
Basically the one closest the input right MJMP?  That's normally how I guage it.

Oh holy shit!!  I have just realised I have been getting my v1 wrong all along with my MP1s :facepalm:

I've been calling the very last V postion v1 for months now lol  :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm:

well then in that case, swapping out a v3 in my 3tm with a bugera 12ax7 B makes a big f**king difference.
Title: Re: Tubes for 3TM?
Post by: Rusty on October 26, 2015, 02:18:41 PM
Hey RG or any of you's in the EURO zone. Check these out from RS in the UK.

http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/double-triode-valves/6784114/

The tube in the picture is from the Chinese Shuguang factory. I think thats a really good price for them, £4.34, Euro:6.03,  ($6.66) each.

I think I'll order up a few and give them a go. Also, I know that the TAD ones are also made by the Shuguang factory but I think they are made to a higher spec for TAD and tested. The TAD valves a very good I think.
Title: Re: Tubes for 3TM?
Post by: rabidgerry on October 26, 2015, 03:05:54 PM
Cheers Rusty, I think for the money they're worth ago.  Apparently one of the TADS is just like the original tubes in the MP1s according to SC on here (look back through this thread for that).

Are they desirable the originals?  Well I dunno.  I know the tubes in my stock MP1 don't sound as good as the ones I'm gonna put in it.  But I also have two Peavey Rockmasters and they take 4 tubes so perhaps getting a truck load of those tubes you listed might do the trick.  You ordered any Rust?  Let me know what you think?

Looks like all my testing has gonna to pot on the tubes because I was getting my v1 and v3 tube positions wrong lol  so I've only really been testing v3 it seems (the nearest the back)
Title: Re: Tubes for 3TM?
Post by: Rusty on October 26, 2015, 03:29:34 PM
Hey RG, I'm gonna order a few up this week and give them a go so I'll post up my opinion as soon as I can. For that price it's worh it.

Cheers RG.
Title: Re: Tubes for 3TM?
Post by: Systematic Chaos on October 27, 2015, 12:37:08 AM
Yo folks,

The specific TAD I was referring to in this thread  (http://adadepot.com/index.php?topic=17.msg5909#msg5909)is their 12AX7A-C (TAD RT001  (http://www.tubeampdoctor.com/en/shop_TAD_Premium_Tubes_TAD_Pre_Amp_Tubes_SELECTED/12AX7A_C_ECC83_TAD_Premium_Selected_7025_12AX7WA_E83CC_391))
Here it is in one my MP1s in the V1 slot with a NOS Mullard (Blackburn) ECC83...yummie tone!
(http://i992.photobucket.com/albums/af41/MagnusBausW/MP-1Mul.jpg)

IIRC, the ones RG ordered were either the TAD RT003/030 or RT008/080 which is a different piece of glassware...

Another current production alternative (with a better price-tag as well) to the above mentioned RT001 is this Tube-Town 12AX7 Gold (http://www.tube-town.net/ttstore/Tubes/Tube-Town/TT-12AX7-ECC83-GOLD::6810.html)

My personal current production favorite (besides the Mullard RI Long-Plate) is the Tube-Town E83CC (http://www.tube-town.net/ttstore/Tubes/Tube-Town/TT-E83CC-12AX7-Standard::4673.html)
I prefer the fact that these have a bit smoother top-end so I can work the amp´s Treble settings a bit better and thus adding a tad bit gain/od/dist without actually pumping up the OD/Gain settings...
These sound phenomenal and I like them in all my amps (ADA, Boogie, Engl)...they have a really "competitive" price-tag as well.


Disclaimer (cuz I was accused by other forum members in the past):
I am in no way affiliated or connected to neither TAD nor Tube-Town. That´s just and only stores/tube specialists over here in Germany where I tend to look first before ordering sth abroad or overseas.
Secondly: I can highly recommend the service, knowledge and customer care at Tube-Town (courtesy of Mr Dirk Munzinger). They have matched and selected Quartets and Octets of power tubes to specific amp specs (...Boogie, e.g. integrated set (4 Tung-Sol 6L6GC-STR + Tung-Sol EL34) that are awesome)
Title: Re: Tubes for 3TM?
Post by: rabidgerry on October 27, 2015, 01:50:56 AM
Hey SC I think  you are a TAD informer lol  :lol:  You really push those TADs in my face to the point I cannot decide for myself on what I should buy  :lol:

I joke of course.  Who would give a shit whether you were or not?  We could all say Richard is working for Mullard if that was the case  :facepalm:


Anyways SC what are those TAD RT001s like?  Give me some postives about em.  I get my shit from Thomann, well I got the Tads from them.  Got the Bugeras on ebay  :thumb-up:


Why hasn't any one mocked me for not knowing where v1 was?  I was waiting on some abuse  :???:
Title: Re: Tubes for 3TM?
Post by: rnolan on October 27, 2015, 02:43:55 AM
Hey RG, be nice if I was working for Mullard, well it's New Sensor really, they bought the naming writes.  Well hey it's good the Bugera works well in V3, similar to SCs MP1 set up, TAD in front and Mullard to follow.  MikeB has his the other way around, Mullard short plate in V1 followed by Boogie SPAX7 in V2.
Having bought both my MP1 and MP2 new, the original tubes were fantastic.  I would say (after hearing a few others in them now) they were really well balanced for whatever you wanted to sound like.  But also from experience, I've found different tubes suet (exemplify) different music and playing styles (hence all out chatter about it  >:D ).
Title: Re: Tubes for 3TM?
Post by: rabidgerry on October 27, 2015, 05:23:29 AM
Hey RG, be nice if I was working for Mullard, well it's New Sensor really, they bought the naming writes.  Well hey it's good the Bugera works well in V3, similar to SCs MP1 set up, TAD in front and Mullard to follow.  MikeB has his the other way around, Mullard short plate in V1 followed by Boogie SPAX7 in V2.
Having bought both my MP1 and MP2 new, the original tubes were fantastic.  I would say (after hearing a few others in them now) they were really well balanced for whatever you wanted to sound like.  But also from experience, I've found different tubes suet (exemplify) different music and playing styles (hence all out chatter about it  >:D ).

Richard, would you say then it would be worth buying tubes then that were close to the original mp1 style tubes?

And yes I will need to start experimenting with tubes all over again as I have had the v positions mixed up!!!  Bugera really makes it a beast in the last postion.  Will try em all over again since I have a few varieties now.
Title: Re: Tubes for 3TM?
Post by: Systematic Chaos on October 27, 2015, 09:55:25 AM
Soon, just had a listen to your clips....I prefer the last one! To my ears (YMMV) that one has the "richest" sound to it.
Since it´s the TADs in V1, that´s the tube that sets the overall character. V2 and V3 just "amplify"/"distort" the initial signal by running it through their Triodes....

Some more about TAD/Tube-Town/Ruby/Groove Tubes....they all just re-label tubes that they are having produced for them by 3 major Tube factories..... New Sensor Corp. in Russia (Sovtek, EH, Tung-Sol, Mullard,...), Shuguang plant in China (Shuguang, TAD, Tube-Town, various....) and J/J Electronics in the Czech Rep.

- the TAD RT001 12AX7A-C is a Shuguang (best bits and pieces of variations A-C of the Chinese 12AX7)
- the TAD RT003/RT030 ECC83 Cz is a J/J
- the TAD RT008/RT080 12AX7 WA is basically the best bits and pieces of the 3 Sovtek 12AX7WA/WB/WC

All these vendors I mentioned above just have the factories do some minor modifications to the initial tube design and then get re-branded and special selected batches of these tubes.
Mass Amp manufacturers also buy their tube at these factories, either by the dozen (no special selection) or to closer selected specs (e.g. Boogie, Engl).
Title: Re: Tubes for 3TM?
Post by: El Chiguete on October 27, 2015, 11:03:21 AM
Here it is in one my MP1s in the V1 slot with a NOS Mullard (Blackburn) ECC83...yummie tone!
(http://i992.photobucket.com/albums/af41/MagnusBausW/MP-1Mul.jpg)

So just to clear this up, when looking from above the V1 actually goes in the right and the V2 in the left correct? So you jave the TAD in the V1 and the Mullard in the V2?
Title: Re: Tubes for 3TM?
Post by: Rusty on October 27, 2015, 11:16:48 AM
Hey guys sorry for jumpling in here, But am I wrong or right? to my belief is that TAD has their own stage in the Shuguang factory and their tubes are not the run of the mill re-branded tubes but made to TAD's specs with a higher quality valve than the normal output.

I mean,, German engineering by name holds it's own in many regards and demands a very high quality product from anything that is associated with that part of the world. I am under the impression that TAD has instructed Shuguang to only provide the best under that ethos in order to be the best current production valve on the market.

I know that tube rolling is a very subjective matter. The NOS idea is very fast becoming a shoot crap in my opinion and way way too over rated.
A lot of the new valves on the market are very good and a lot of the older so called NOS European and USA ones especially from the 70's are no better.

Some of that knowledge comes from my older friend who worked upon TV's and radio from the 60's till the 90's who seen it all in his career.
Title: Re: Tubes for 3TM?
Post by: Systematic Chaos on October 27, 2015, 11:34:16 AM
Hey guys sorry for jumpling in here, But am I wrong or right? to my belief is that TAD has their own stage in the Shuguang factory and their tubes are not the run of the mill re-branded tubes but made to TAD's specs with a higher quality valve than the normal output... I am under the impression that TAD has instructed Shuguang to only provide the best under that ethos in order to be the best current production valve on the market....

Ja, that sums it up. Just tried to put it a bit more basic... ;-)

I mean, German engineering by name holds it's own in many regards and demands a very high quality product ...
>> until VW f%$&ed it all up  8) 8) 8) :thumb-up: :thumb-up: :thumb-up:

Here it is in one my MP1s in the V1 slot with a NOS Mullard (Blackburn) ECC83...yummie tone!

So just to clear this up, when looking from above the V1 actually goes in the right and the V2 in the left correct? So you jave the TAD in the V1 and the Mullard in the V2?

Yap
Title: Re: Tubes for 3TM?
Post by: Rusty on October 27, 2015, 11:40:25 AM
Hey guys sorry for jumpling in here, But am I wrong or right? to my belief is that TAD has their own stage in the Shuguang factory and their tubes are not the run of the mill re-branded tubes but made to TAD's specs with a higher quality valve than the normal output... I am under the impression that TAD has instructed Shuguang to only provide the best under that ethos in order to be the best current production valve on the market....

Ja, that sums it up. Just tried to put it a bit more basic... ;-)

I mean, German engineering by name holds it's own in many regards and demands a very high quality product ...
>> until VW f%$&ed it all up  8) 8) 8) :thumb-up: :thumb-up: :thumb-up:

Here it is in one my MP1s in the V1 slot with a NOS Mullard (Blackburn) ECC83...yummie tone!

So just to clear this up, when looking from above the V1 actually goes in the right and the V2 in the left correct? So you jave the TAD in the V1 and the Mullard in the V2?

Yap

Ta, ár mór, agús,  Rolls Royce went to BMW.   :thumb-up:
Title: Re: Tubes for 3TM?
Post by: MarshallJMP on October 27, 2015, 12:11:21 PM
I have to disagree with this,tubes of the 70's were a lot better then current productions.
Title: Re: Tubes for 3TM?
Post by: rabidgerry on October 27, 2015, 12:15:13 PM
Uhhhh I should have stayed in Irish class Rusty!!  lol

um druid an doras?  lol

anyways, aye VW screwed um.  Kinda unlike them to be honest.  They'll survive though.  f*ck sake every Taxi in Northern Ireland is a f**king Skoda (VW in disguise)  and isn't Audi/Lamborghini VW also?  They aint going bust anytime soon.

Right so SC you were talking about my clips?  That means I had a TAD in v1 all along



Hey EL I am guessing you thought V1 was actually V2 the same as me?????  Or did you know the one closest the input was v1?

I should have known this since I know that the one closest is generally V1 but the fact the MP1 tubes go inward rather than expand left to right (like my Rockmaster) confused me lol  what a dumb ass!!!

edit..........
I was under the impression Tubes from the olden days  :lol: were far less reliable and those today where better in that regard?  Can't comment on their sound of course.  Mind you some crazy fools are selling old stock on ebay.
Title: Re: Tubes for 3TM?
Post by: El Chiguete on October 27, 2015, 06:08:06 PM
Hey EL I am guessing you thought V1 was actually V2 the same as me?????  Or did you know the one closest the input was v1?

I kind of remembered one time reading this on another post but just wanted to make sure.

Since it´s the TADs in V1, that´s the tube that sets the overall character. V2 and V3 just "amplify"/"distort" the initial signal by running it through their Triodes....

Funny you mention this because just last week I was visiting my amp builder/guru friend to test a guitar we build for himself and we went on a looong conversation about tube placements because he's main amp he uses to test guitars is his own build Dumble replica and he has put additional knobs to control some vakues of the amp that normally you build and set to a specific position but with the added knobs he can control it to get the tones he want. Basicly on the overdrive section normally you see a gain and level knobs (what on an MP-1 is the OD2 and Master Level controls) so to set the gain comming out from V1 and howmuch amplification goes out of the V2 (since this one is just for added amplification and not to affect tone) but normally when an amp is build you fix the value of the signal that is let in the input of the V1 in the inside of the amp (on the MP-1 you use OD1 for this), and this added flexibillity is a big advantage that we all love on our MP-1s... AND we have it programmable!  :whoohoo!:
Title: Re: Tubes for 3TM?
Post by: Systematic Chaos on October 28, 2015, 12:02:39 AM
I have to disagree with this,tubes of the 70's were a lot better then current productions.

Hot-agree on that!!!

...
Right so SC you were talking about my clips?  That means I had a TAD in v1 all along
...
I was under the impression Tubes from the golden days  :lol: were far less reliable and those today where better in that regard?  Can't comment on their sound of course.  Mind you some crazy fools are selling old stock on ebay.

Yap, that last clip you posted sounded best to me...full and rich.
That was the one you had the TAD WA (RT008 or RT080; both the same tube but the RT080 being selected to higher "premium" specs) in V1.

Whereas some of the current production tubes are really nice, MJMP has it spot-on with lots of NOS glassware from the 60s and 70s being far superior in terms of manufacturing, tolerances, quality....and sound.
Late 60s Mullard (Blackburn-Plant) ECC83/12AX7 are deemed some of the holy grails.
Title: Re: Tubes for 3TM?
Post by: Rusty on October 28, 2015, 01:00:46 AM
Uhhhh I should have stayed in Irish class Rusty!!  lol

um druid an doras?  lol


Nil fiberbe !  LOL.  :)
Title: Re: Tubes for 3TM?
Post by: Rusty on October 28, 2015, 01:11:03 AM
I have to disagree with this,tubes of the 70's were a lot better then current productions.

Hot-agree on that!!!

...
Right so SC you were talking about my clips?  That means I had a TAD in v1 all along
...
I was under the impression Tubes from the golden days  :lol: were far less reliable and those today where better in that regard?  Can't comment on their sound of course.  Mind you some crazy fools are selling old stock on ebay.

Yap, that last clip you posted sounded best to me...full and rich.
That was the one you had the TAD WA (RT008 or RT080; both the same tube but the RT080 being selected to higher "premium" specs) in V1.

Whereas some of the current production tubes are really nice, MJMP has it spot-on with lots of NOS glassware from the 60s and 70s being far superior in terms of manufacturing, tolerances, quality....and sound.
Late 60s Mullard (Blackburn-Plant) ECC83/12AX7 are deemed some of the holy grails.

I think that it is down to the most inportant variable, transconductance. Ra (Anode resistance) never changes much and gain is always consistent. It is true though that lots of the older tubes hold strong and seem to last a longer while in that regard.
Title: Re: Tubes for 3TM?
Post by: rabidgerry on October 28, 2015, 01:31:46 AM
I will have to re listen SC, I remember it being nice but since I took the Bugera out the output was  A LOT LESS.  When I had the ruby's and Bug in I felt a lot more "throateyness" which I liked.

Originally I thought I had the Bug in v1 with those Ruby's but I was obviously insane and made a mistake.  So really I was getting the tone of the Rubys and a big Gain boost from the Bug at the last stage.

So to test what the Bug really sounds like I will have to swap them all about.  At the moment I am running a Tad Bug and Ruby.  And it sounds f**king good to me.  I forget the order as I'm getting sick opening and closing.



Tubes from the 70's being better.......................I have no idea.  I just heard something similar to what Rusty had said in an earlier post.  At the end of the day if you get a good sound using todays tubes then it doesn't matter.  Hell if you use some really shit gear and get a good sound using it then it doesn't matter.  As long as it sounds good  :thumb-up:
Title: Re: Tubes for 3TM?
Post by: rnolan on October 28, 2015, 06:27:46 AM
(Richard, would you say then it would be worth buying tubes then that were close to the original mp1 style tubes?)
Hey RG, yes and no... depends what you want. If someone explores these tube posts, they can probably narrow down tube choice (a bit) based on many of our experiences/posts. I found the original Chinese tubes very good and very versatile, not quite as "flat/transparent" as the power amps (e.g. B200s) but you could take them anyway you want (clean. country, rock, high gain rock (e.g. metal) etc). They covered all the bases well.  However, if you find a tube that you like that suits how you play (e.g. for me that's the Mullard long plates in a MP2 MMMMmmmm), then go with that (they all sound so different (well to me anyway  :crazy: ).
Title: Re: Tubes for 3TM?
Post by: rnolan on October 28, 2015, 06:54:52 AM
Hey All, re earlier (and sometimes NOS tubes), if you dig back into the earlier tube posts you'll find one I put up that talks about where tubes have been and now got to...
There are 2 main differences IMHO between the older tubes (which are now either 2nd hand or NOS (new old stock)). Back then all the tube makers had their own metallurgy departments (so they made all sorts of metal alloy combinations to get the best electrical response (anodes, cathodes, grids etc), but the main difference these days is how long the tubes are pumped (how good is the vacuum).  Modern tubes sound fine (the metallurgy is being replicated (largely)), they just don't last anywhere near as long coz they are pumped for 30 mins instead of 2 to 3 hours as they used to be. And of course the manufacturers want them to wear out so we have to buy new ones.  There is also a difference in the metallurgy and that also has an affect. MJMP is quite correct when he says the old tubes were better, they were just better made (good metal(s), good pumping, thicker glass), the modern designs are predominantly the same just won't last as long (or in some cases sound as good).
Title: Re: Tubes for 3TM?
Post by: MarshallJMP on October 28, 2015, 07:59:15 AM
I have to agree with R  :thumb-up:
Title: Re: Tubes for 3TM?
Post by: Harley Hexxe on October 28, 2015, 07:01:51 PM
Hey Richard,

    I definitely have to agree with that +1 :thumb-up:

    Case in point: Russian made Mullard RI's. I tried a pair of those in my Classic, and after 3 months they were as dead as you could get. I love the tones that Mullards can produce, but if I have to change them every 3 months, then I'm better off going with some other kind of tube that will give me a tone close to that, or maybe something with more bottom end warmth, (the Classic really needs that), that will last longer.

    Harley 8)
Title: Re: Tubes for 3TM?
Post by: rnolan on October 29, 2015, 03:47:39 AM
Hey Harley, maybe you got a dud pair  :dunno: , I've had them in my MP2(s) for a few years now and still going strong. Did your other tubes burn out so fast ? It has to be either tubes weren't good (hey MikeB and I had a Boogie flagship SPAX7 die in a very short time), or something else is wrong (can be dust in the tube socket, IIRC MJMP advised not to spray tube sockets to clean them as that can attract crap which can cause your tubes to burn out prematurely, his solution, change the tube sockets, don't try to clean them, makes good sense really, the only time (in general) the connectors in the tube sockets are exposed is the brief period when you're changing tubes). So if you did spray the sockets before you put in the Mullards ? that a possible scenario.
Cheers R
Title: Re: Tubes for 3TM?
Post by: MarshallJMP on October 29, 2015, 06:26:29 AM


I think that it is down to the most inportant variable, transconductance. Ra (Anode resistance) never changes much and gain is always consistent. It is true though that lots of the older tubes hold strong and seem to last a longer while in that regard.
[/quote]

ra and gm do change with the voltage applied to the anode,the lower the voltage the higher ra will be and the lower gm will be.But µ=gm x ra (or max gain of the tube) will stay relatively constant.But if you use higher voltages the output gain Vo/Vi will increase and Dtot (distortion) will drop.This with the same Ra resistor.Just to be clear Ra and ra are not the same,Ra is the anode resistor and ra is the dynamic output resistance which changes with the anode voltage.
Title: Re: Tubes for 3TM?
Post by: Harley Hexxe on October 29, 2015, 08:59:13 AM
Hey Richard,

     No...I never spray tube sockets! I learned about that with all tube amps. It is possible I did get a pair of duds, after all, I did order those from Musicians Friend. The tubes I have in there now are a pair of long plate JJ's. They're alright, but not quite what I want out of this preamp. I got these tubes, and several others from Doug's Tubes. I did order two pairs of the RI Mullards, and put them in the MP-2's. I also got a pair of his pricey Penta 12AX7's and put them in the original MP-1. I may swap those with the JJ's just to see if they make any difference.

    Now, here is a question for MJMP that I can't recall seeing in any of the posts in the past: We all know that the stock MP-1 doesn't supply the filament with the full voltage, is this also the case with the MP-2 and the Classic?

    Harley 8)
Title: Re: Tubes for 3TM?
Post by: MarshallJMP on October 29, 2015, 09:31:37 AM
The MP-1 classic and MP-2 do get the proper filament voltage.
Title: Re: Tubes for 3TM?
Post by: Rusty on October 29, 2015, 01:18:44 PM
Rock 'n Roll.   :metal:

   
Title: Re: Tubes for 3TM?
Post by: rnolan on October 29, 2015, 11:58:55 PM
Hey Harley, it's definitely possible they were duds, it does happen, even when they've been well tested etc. If you like how they sounded in the Classic, I'd give them another go maybe from a different supplier ? Did they have any guarantee ? Not sure what Doug's return policy is. There's more than one story here about tubes being duds.
If for example a tube isn't pumped enough (maybe some issue when it was made ?) it will burn out faster as less good vacuum. This is one of the main reasons the old NOS tubes last so long as they pumped them for much longer back then.  From an amp manufactures perspective, they probably don't want them to last more than a year or two so you'll have to buy new ones from them.

Like light bulbs, they can make them so they last for a very long time by pumping them more (as required for lights on ships due to vibration), same with tubes.
Title: Re: Tubes for 3TM?
Post by: rabidgerry on October 30, 2015, 02:37:12 AM
I've never had tubes burn out that fast.  I had a valvestate with a JJ in there for years and also a sovtek.  They were still working when I swapped them.

I'll see how long the bugeras last for.

I'll be doing some tube rolling soon (thanks to SC) so it's all about to get very confusing.  But we'll see how long some of them last.
Title: Re: Tubes for 3TM?
Post by: rnolan on October 30, 2015, 07:36:49 AM
Hey RG tht will be good feedback  :thumb-up:
Title: Re: Tubes for 3TM?
Post by: Harley Hexxe on November 01, 2015, 03:44:47 PM
Hey Richard,

      The tubes from Musicians Friend only had a 30 day guarantee I think, which is pretty much standard these days if any warranty is offered with tubes at all. I'm not sure if Doug's has any warranty. Because of the fact that people have been dishonest in the past with tubes, shops that sell them here don't have any warranty at all. This is why I don't buy them from Guitar Center, or Sam Ash. Their policy is a "No Returns" policy once you take them out the door. This is why I'd have to take my tube tester with me if I bought any from those places.
     I'm probably going to try another pair of Mullards in the Classic when I get around to it, but I still plan to experiment with other tubes in there to see if I can get more of what I'm looking for out of it. The Penta tubes sound really good in the MP-1, but then again, so did the GT Mullard RI's that were in there originally. The MP-1 has more low end EQ than the Classic. so I don't expect to be able to match that no matter what tubes eventually end up in there. It might be worth the effort to experiment with some of the more High Fidelity tubes on the boutique market. I suppose it will still be a crap shoot as to how long they will last though.

    Harley 8)
Title: Re: Tubes for 3TM?
Post by: MarshallJMP on November 02, 2015, 04:34:49 AM
Ruby tubes have a warranty of 6 months.
Title: Re: Tubes for 3TM?
Post by: rnolan on November 02, 2015, 05:39:36 AM
Hey Harley, My take on the boutique market is there are NOS tubes around (which also may/not be duds (statistically some will be duds)), NOS tubes buy you longer life (and sometimes better metallurgy, they all had their own specialist  metallurgy departments back then). Other wise the "character" of a 12AX7 is what it is, the different designs sound a bit different in various circuits. I wouldn't expect a NOS Mullard 12AX7 long plate to sound that different from the re-issue (if the re-issue is good), but I wouldn't expect it to last as long (pumping/vacuum).
But Hey. roll a few tubes and hear what makes the classic how "you" want it  >:D , and then tell us (not that I've got a classic, LoL, wouldn't mind though).
Title: Re: Tubes for 3TM?
Post by: Systematic Chaos on November 02, 2015, 05:52:15 AM
... I wouldn't expect a NOS Mullard 12AX7 long plate to sound that different from the re-issue (if the re-issue is good)...

Night and day difference, believe me!
Title: Re: Tubes for 3TM?
Post by: rnolan on November 02, 2015, 05:59:20 AM
Hey SC, so why ? they are supposed to be a re-issue. So is the design the same ? glass thickness the same? metallurgy the same ? Well I've no idea but from what you are saying (night and day difference (and I do believe you  :wave: )), then things "must" have changed..  I do love the new sensor re-issue though, they are still a very nice tube, though now maybe I need to seek out some NOS tubes (at great expense.... well I could I spose)
Title: Re: Tubes for 3TM?
Post by: El Chiguete on November 02, 2015, 06:22:47 AM
... I wouldn't expect a NOS Mullard 12AX7 long plate to sound that different from the re-issue (if the re-issue is good)...

Night and day difference, believe me!

Ok so now its your dutty to comment more on this! jeje. I only ask to make sure if you are saying that the older ones are way better than the newer re-issues that some of the guys here love so much and because of this I want to try them out soon.
Title: Re: Tubes for 3TM?
Post by: MarshallJMP on November 02, 2015, 07:36:25 AM
I have to agree with SC,i think the only thing they have reissued is the name,but that's it.Many people think these are exact copies of the original but they are not,far from.
Title: Re: Tubes for 3TM?
Post by: DorsetRatt on November 02, 2015, 11:15:42 AM
With regard to NOS tubes I found the following resource which may be of use, about halfway down the page ...

NOS TUBES?  The hype, myth, and reality
http://www.guitaramplifierblueprinting.com/pastinfo.html (http://www.guitaramplifierblueprinting.com/pastinfo.html)

Due to my limited knowledge of electronics the article explains things in terms I'm more familiar with ...

Gain => Horsepower
Output => Torque
Transconductance => Acceleration

Note: There is an obvious bias towards Groove Tubes on this web page
Title: Re: Tubes for 3TM?
Post by: rnolan on November 03, 2015, 02:11:52 AM
Hey DR, good read  :thumb-up:
Title: Re: Tubes for 3TM?
Post by: Harley Hexxe on November 08, 2015, 05:56:07 PM
I have to agree with SC,i think the only thing they have reissued is the name,but that's it.Many people think these are exact copies of the original but they are not,far from.

   I have to agree here. The RI Mullards just don't seem to have the same clarity and punch as the originals. The trouble is, I don't have $600 USD to drop on a pair of NOS Mullards right now.

     Harley 8)
Title: Re: Tubes for 3TM?
Post by: rnolan on November 09, 2015, 12:33:11 AM
Lucky I like the RIs then LoL, if I trip over some NOS Mullards for a decent price I'll pick them up, but not at $600..
Title: Re: Tubes for 3TM?
Post by: Harley Hexxe on November 09, 2015, 04:04:47 PM
Lucky I like the RIs then LoL, if I trip over some NOS Mullards for a decent price I'll pick them up, but not at $600..

   It's ridiculous, isn't it? It just reminds me of what we have all known all along; Musicians are the lowest paid professionals on the planet, yet the cost of our tools is the most expensive in the world.

   It kind of makes me wonder if there is a conspiracy to keep the number of working musicians out of the picture!  :lol:


   Harley 8)
Title: Re: Tubes for 3TM?
Post by: rnolan on November 11, 2015, 02:32:44 AM
Hey Harley, well I don't know about the conspiracy but we've been squeezed for many years... $100 a night each was good money when I was in my teens (I'm 56 now), it's still all you get paid  :crazy: so it's got worse. And the paradigm has switched 180 deg, now you put your music on the internet (pretty much for free) to promote a gig or tour, used to be you'd tour to promote the album.. I struggle to relate money and music, I just play music because I love it. and I'd go crazy if I didn't.
Title: Re: Tubes for 3TM?
Post by: MarshallJMP on November 11, 2015, 03:34:00 AM
I guess music is a hobby for most of us here,and a hobby costs money.And yes you'll put in more money then you will ever get out of it.But it's fun so ...
Title: Re: Tubes for 3TM?
Post by: rabidgerry on November 11, 2015, 01:10:22 PM
I guess music is a hobby for most of us here,and a hobby costs money.And yes you'll put in more money then you will ever get out of it.But it's fun so ...

It's hard to define the main thing in your life as just a hobby......................BUT mjmp I totally know what you mean.  I work full time also or else I'd starve and die.

I only don't make a lot of money through music these days because the music business is dead.  The musicians make f*ck all these days.  Someone somewhere makes money off it but not the musicians, not with heavy metal music.  Thankfully the metal scene exists today largely on the basis that people will dip into their own Pockets to pay for their passion to keep it alive.  The new Raven album was made from a fan funded campaign.  Pretty impressive if you ask me.

People that make money with music in bands from what I can see are people in cover bands.  Or else shit pop chart music.
Title: Re: Tubes for 3TM?
Post by: MarshallJMP on November 11, 2015, 01:56:48 PM
Well for me music is fun i'm not into it for making money.This way you can do what you and play what you want. :metal:
Title: Re: Tubes for 3TM?
Post by: rnolan on November 12, 2015, 03:29:51 AM
Well for me music is fun i'm not into it for making money.This way you can do what you and play what you want. :metal:
+1  :thumb-up: These days, if it's not fun I just don't want to know... But it is still the main central passion in my life. One of the things I like about this board, lots of passion, lots of fun  ;)
Title: Re: Tubes for 3TM?
Post by: rabidgerry on November 12, 2015, 03:55:16 AM
Well for me music is fun i'm not into it for making money.This way you can do what you and play what you want. :metal:
I don't do it for money either because if I did I would have stopped ten years ago, I'm also in the wrong music genre. 

I never said I did do it for money either just to clarify that.

But I think musicians should be able to make money from their music and anyone who disagrees with that is a fool.

In 1985 you could have played in a band for one night and made £400 a night.  What is £400 in 1985 worth these days in todays money?

Today you are lucky to get close to £100 for a show.  I have no idea what it's like outside of the UK, I know for the Holland show we played we got paid, but only just.

I feel very strongly about this topic because when I travel and money comes out of my pocket to go play a shows somewhere it just doesn't add up for me that I am playing show to entertain people yet it's costing me money to play a show for them??

WTF

I also feel embarrassed when people say to me "you don't get paid, to play shows?".  Because sometimes if we are low down on the bill we will not get paid.

Thankfully we can sell merchandise and recoup some of the cost.  Still sucks balls though and it's a sad state of affairs.


Edit.....
I do do it though because I love it and I'd be lost without it. If I had no music to write and record I'd be lost.  I have fun doing it but I also take very seriously as that's just the type of person I am with things I love if that makes sense.
Title: Re: Tubes for 3TM?
Post by: rnolan on November 12, 2015, 04:55:36 AM
Hey RG, absolutely my friend, and I for one appreciate your input into the world of music and on this forum  :thumb-up: :wave:
Title: Re: Tubes for 3TM?
Post by: rabidgerry on November 12, 2015, 06:24:51 AM
Thanks man appreciate that.

Fun is why I do it first and just sheer pleasure, but when you want to take it further it then becomes a little like another job even if you're making very little money from doing it but you keep doing it because it's your duty to keep the flame burning for what you believe in.
Title: Re: Tubes for 3TM?
Post by: MarshallJMP on November 12, 2015, 07:16:01 AM
Well about payments,here it's no different,usually not much.
Title: Re: Tubes for 3TM?
Post by: Harley Hexxe on November 14, 2015, 12:01:17 PM
Hey Richard,

    Actually, it's still the same in a manner of speaking, you still have to tour to boost sales of your album, even with the internet these days. The internet is just another means of advertising, to promote your album and announce your tour dates in a more personalized manner than just radio.
    I have to agree with MJMP and RG, we still do it because we love what we can do with our instruments. That's the important thing right there: it has to please us first! If it does that, then there are doubtlessly going to be other people around the globe who will find pleasure in what we do also.
    You guys are lucky over there if you're still getting paid the same as you were back in the day. Over here, you do a lot of free gigs with a new band and try to build a following that will go where you are playing. The club owners over here have gotten it in their pointy heads, that the bands need to bring in their crowds with them, or they don't get paid. A sign of the times I suppose. ???

   Harley 8)
Title: Re: Tubes for 3TM?
Post by: rabidgerry on November 15, 2015, 02:15:58 PM
Totally man, I do it first and foremost to please my self because if I didn't I'd be play some other style of music.  When I started out in band people didn't know what the hell we were playing because it wasn't death metal or nut metal.  Now that shit isn't as popular as it once was and people here are starting to appreciate what we do and dare I say the seem to really enjoy it as well.

Anyways tube tests to follow as SC is busting my balls to try out some tubes he sent
Title: Re: Tubes for 3TM?
Post by: rabidgerry on November 15, 2015, 04:11:14 PM
ok here is one batch of tests doing a bit of Judas Priest "Metal Gods" here :)

These where all swaps made to V1 (now that I know V1 is not where I thought it was  :facepalm:  :lol:)  the tubes I kept consistant in V2 and V3 the whole time where TAD RT008s

V1 Position:
1st Tad RT080
2nd RSD
3rd Bugera 12AX7A  *
4th Ruby 12AX7HG   *
5th Bugera 12AX7B  *
6th Tad RT001         *
7th Random tube I had

All those with a star I like the best, couldn't pick a winner between them.  Something that could not be taken into account by recording each tube is the feel.  All those with a star felt best to me, and more even sounding and sensitive to finger movement.

So for example the RSD was really dark and dirty which I liked but weaker for higher stuff.  Then Bugera 12ax7a for example was more balanced and didn't lean too much to one area and felt great, very sensitive to me.

https://soundcloud.com/rabidgerry/tubes-test (https://soundcloud.com/rabidgerry/tubes-test)
Title: Re: Tubes for 3TM?
Post by: Systematic Chaos on November 16, 2015, 03:07:23 AM
Sounds good....will listen later again with headphone.

Short info on the RSD...
The RSD is a re-labelled/-branded (RSD = former tube distributor in the former German Democratic Repuplic) early 80s Yugoslavian Ei remake of the Telefunken long/smooth/grey plate ECC83, manufactured in the early 80s in the Ei plant in Nis/Serbia on old Telefunken machines.
These were also used as Ei ECC83 2A1 tubes in 80s Marshall JCM800...
Title: Re: Tubes for 3TM?
Post by: rabidgerry on November 16, 2015, 03:34:13 AM
What was cool about the RSD was, when I used it, and I turned on the MP1, the RSD lit up like a flash bulb from a camera, then went back down to a more normal amount of light for 12ax7 tube.

It had a nice dirty edge and bottom end but it felt like it was harder work to play the trebel string.  Didn't get that with say the Bugeras or the TAD 001

Oh Oh I forgot to mention, as I have an MP1 with the original tubes still in.  So I can vouch that the TAD 001 sounded very similar.  As soon as I started playing it reminded me of those stock mp1 tubes.  I'll be buying more of them I reckon.
Title: Re: Tubes for 3TM?
Post by: Systematic Chaos on November 16, 2015, 04:19:18 AM
What was cool about the RSD was, when I used it, and I turned on the MP1, the RSD lit up like a flash bulb from a camera, then went back down to a more normal amount of light for 12ax7 tube.

It had a nice dirty edge and bottom end but it felt like it was harder work to play the trebel string.  Didn't get that with say the Bugeras or the TAD 001

Oh Oh I forgot to mention, as I have an MP1 with the original tubes still in.  So I can vouch that the TAD 001 sounded very similar.  As soon as I started playing it reminded me of those stock mp1 tubes.  I'll be buying more of them I reckon.

 :thumb-up: :thumb-up: :thumb-up:

You might wanna check the RSD in #2 or #3 slot...#1 sets the overall character/tone (e.g. RT001) and #2/#3 just amplify/multiply/quantify it...
So maybe by NOT having 2 identical tubes (=4 identical triodes >=>very linear) and thus odd/different triodes altogether you´d get more stacked harmonics/overtones....YMMV


Edit:

Just lisened in with headphones...
I actually like the 2nd and 6th...but that is just my listening experience. *Feel* when playing is naturally a different cup of tea.
I´d check out
V1: TAD RT001
V2: TAD RT080/Ruby/RSD
V3: RSD/Ruby/TAD RT080
Title: Re: Tubes for 3TM?
Post by: rabidgerry on November 16, 2015, 07:41:32 AM
Ok there's a plan right there.  Combos!!

I wont f*ck up my tube sockets will i?  I felt like I was really abusing my 3tm yesterday pulling those tubes in and out.

I could be here for centuries swapping these tubes in and out and in different positions!

Please not those tests were done with the $18 pickup.
Title: Re: Tubes for 3TM?
Post by: Systematic Chaos on November 16, 2015, 07:55:21 AM
I wont f*ck up my tube sockets will i?  ....

No worries....(tube) roll on!!
Title: Re: Tubes for 3TM?
Post by: rabidgerry on November 16, 2015, 09:00:51 AM
You sure?  I don't wanna ruin it and have to send to MJMP  ???

I can't afford no repairs at the moment.  Sometimes when I'm loading the tubes I see the tube board bending!!!!  And I have to do a lot of rocking from side to side.
Title: Re: Tubes for 3TM?
Post by: Systematic Chaos on November 16, 2015, 09:04:40 AM
You sure?  I don't wanna ruin it and have to send to MJMP  ???

I can't afford no repairs at the moment.  Sometimes when I'm loading the tubes I see the tube board bending!!!!  And I have to do a lot of rocking from side to side.
Rocking the tubes slightly to pull them out/reseat them is totally normal...shows you that the clamps within the sockets are still tight.
We´ve all been tube-rolling to find our preferred "tube-cocktails"....
You naturally don´t yank/slam them in and out of the sockets though.
But no worries with rolling tubes.
Title: Re: Tubes for 3TM?
Post by: MarshallJMP on November 16, 2015, 10:55:16 AM
Well my fav is nr2 the SRD.

Also if you are changing tubes you can put the tops of you fingers between the tubeboard and the chassis,this way the tubeboard won't bend at all.
Title: Re: Tubes for 3TM?
Post by: rabidgerry on November 17, 2015, 01:32:24 AM
tried

Bugera 12ax7a
RSD
TAD RT008

Nice but way tooooooo muddy.  Felt great though.  Mud fest 5000!!
Title: Re: Tubes for 3TM?
Post by: Systematic Chaos on November 17, 2015, 02:56:18 AM
Swap the Bugera for the TAD RT001
Title: Re: Tubes for 3TM?
Post by: rabidgerry on November 17, 2015, 05:05:32 AM
I'll be trying a lot more combos don't worry.

The bugera defo not the one making things muddy as I'll prove later.