ADA Depot - A Forum To Support Users of ADA Amplification Gear

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

Need a Schematic? Check the Vault *MP-1 Classic Schematics Just Added!!

Pages: 1 [2] 3   Go Down

Author Topic: HAVING SOME "SOUND" ISSUES WITH MY MP-1??  (Read 23184 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

rnolan

  • Administrator
  • Superhero Member
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5995
Re: HAVING SOME "SOUND" ISSUES WITH MY MP-1??
« Reply #15 on: Time Format »

Hey Steve, The original tubes lasted a long time, I didn't change my MP1 tubes for quite a few years.  Tubes degrade very slowly over time and lose some crispness, get a bit flat/mushy sounding or even noisy less output etc.  The older tubes were "pumped" for much longer (2.5 hours ish vs 30 mins ish these days) giving a better vacuum and thus lasting longer.  You'll hear the difference with new tubes instantly and they tend to settle (burn in) over the first few days.  Some tubes are higher output (eg Mullards) so will give more gain (distortion).  The Ruby tested JJs that MJMP likes will be great. From the valve chart posted previously they have a little less gain but lower microphonic noise than the Mullards.  I love the Mullards because they are so 3D which suits my playing.
Logged
Studio Rig: Stuff; Live Rig: More Stuff; Guitars: A few

RandallRG

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 254
Re: HAVING SOME "SOUND" ISSUES WITH MY MP-1??
« Reply #16 on: Time Format »

Richard hey Mate Thank you for all of the info on the Tubes...very interesting. If I am liking the way my MP-1 sounds @ the moment I can only imagine what it will sound like with some new Tubes in it! After doing some experimenting I have found myself about the "Perfect" 80's Metal Tone/Sound (for myself anyway! lol!) a little bit more "Tweaking" ad my Wah & I am right back in the 80's! LONG LIVE THE M-E-T-A-L! \m/
Logged

RandallRG

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 254
Re: HAVING SOME "SOUND" ISSUES WITH MY MP-1??
« Reply #17 on: Time Format »

Richard Thanks for the chart. Hey just wondering......what do you think of these there JJ's?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=121148613189&ssPageName=ADME:X:RTQ:US:1123
« Last Edit: Time Format by RandallRG »
Logged

rnolan

  • Administrator
  • Superhero Member
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5995
Re: HAVING SOME "SOUND" ISSUES WITH MY MP-1??
« Reply #18 on: Time Format »

Hey Steve, they look fine (although not much information on them) but I'd buy tubes from Doug's Tubes as he tests them and the price is probably very similar.  Moreover, lots of guys on this site have dealt with Doug and all have good things to say.  If your after JJs, the Boogie STRs (music shops should carry them) are good and also well tested but often a little more expensive.  Or go with MJMPs advice and get Ruby JJs as they also do thorough testing.  Or you could buy them from here (http://evatco.com.au/product-list/audio-tubes/12ax7jj/), you'll save 10% GST because your not in Australia and also the AUD has dropped quite a bit lately.  I bought my Mullards from these guys, very knowledgeable and reputable people.
Logged
Studio Rig: Stuff; Live Rig: More Stuff; Guitars: A few

RandallRG

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 254
Re: HAVING SOME "SOUND" ISSUES WITH MY MP-1??
« Reply #19 on: Time Format »

Had to ask....since I am running my Axe through the Front "Input" of my MP-1 & then the "Output" of the MP-1 to the Front "Input" of my Randall RG100ES (& Trust Me it sounds Killer.Nice/Clear & L-O-U-D! NO issues Etc) Would there be that much of a difference if one day I got a Poweramp (Mesa Etc?) & ran it through it? It works great through my Randall the way I have it @ the moment....MP-1>MXR 6 Band (Blue)>Rocktron Hush II>Randall RG100ES>Randall 4x12 Jaguar Loaded Cab. Just wondering because it seems like many run it through a Rack Poweramp>4X12 Etc ?  I am not running any gear through my loop (would anything sound better through it or just leave it the way I have it?) I don't believe any Mods were done to my MP-1 & I have to admit...it's pretty quiet NO noise etc. Guess the "Mini" Hush is working? Just curious? Thanks! \m/
« Last Edit: Time Format by RandallRG »
Logged

rnolan

  • Administrator
  • Superhero Member
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5995
Re: HAVING SOME "SOUND" ISSUES WITH MY MP-1??
« Reply #20 on: Time Format »

Hi Steve, the advantage of using the MP1 loop is it's adjustable for level so you can put EITHER (not both) line level or guitar (inst) level effects in it, adjust the send/return levels then mix that sound with the dry signal.  You run the effect full wet (no dry) the mix level is adjustable in the ADA for each patch so the amount of effect can be varied to suit the patch.  Down side of the MP1 loop is it's mono (wouldn't bother you with your current set up) and you need to use mono effects or just one channel of a stereo unit.  If you wanted to add a delay unit I would use the loop, better gain structure and versatility.
ADA pre-amps were designed to run into a clean/transparent stereo power amp.  I used an ADA B200s (124w per chan into 4 ohms) and loved it.  I now have a Carvin TS100 all tube amp but again it's very clean and transparent, I'm not trying to get any colour from the power amp.  Down side of the tube power amps is weight and heat, they are heavy (1 power transformer and 2 output trannys (one per chan in a stereo amp)).  The TS100 is quite heavy and is in its own 2 RU rack while I had the B200s in the main rack.  The B200s is not light (1 largish power tranny) but much lighter, less heat and smaller footprint than tube power amps.
If you go down the rack power amp path the main reason (for me) would be to run in stereo.  It makes a "huge" difference (I'll never go back to mono).  Even without the benefit of full stereo effects (another good reason to go this way (ahh stereo reverb, my fav)) it will bring your MP1 alive.  But of course then you need 2 cabs (or a stereo cab). 2 separate cabs sound better than a stereo cab (sound doesn't mix inside the box) but a stereo cab with MP1 in stereo sounds better than mono.  Now all this costs of course.  One thing I wouldn't recommend is to put a rack stereo effect between your MP1 and the power amp (this way the effect/dry mix is done in the effect unit) as typically the first thing digital rack effect units do (eg TC G major) is convert you lovey analogue tube sound into digital.  Ideally you want to mix the digital effect with your analogue dry signal.  Check out my post (and others) in the how do you connect your rack gear thread I started a while ago (http://adadepot.com/index.php?topic=117.0).
Checking out the pics of your gear, you have enough to go stereo now, send the MP1 outs to 2 of your Randalls (ie duplicate your current set up).  You could then put a stereo effect unit (I use an old Alesis Quadverb) in the send return loops of the Randalls (one left chan the other the right chan).  Once you connect the MP1 to 2 amps, try adjusting the chorus on a patch to depth 100 and rate 0.0.  This will add a nice fattening (short ~20 ms) delay between the A and B outputs, sounds great, I do this on all my patches that don't require the ADA chorus (as chorus).  Anyway, to give stereo a try, you only need to plug an extra input cable between your MP1 and your other Randalls clean input, crank it and drool  :whoohoo!:
Logged
Studio Rig: Stuff; Live Rig: More Stuff; Guitars: A few

RandallRG

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 254
Re: HAVING SOME "SOUND" ISSUES WITH MY MP-1??
« Reply #21 on: Time Format »

Richard I want to Thank You very much for all the info Sir....For you to take the time out & write all this down for me I really do appreciate it! Between you & Marshall I have learned so much since I got here all of the knowledge is great. Tell you what the more I get to try different Patches & do more adjustments etc on my MP-1 it really is I-N-S-A-N-E how much there really is to this unit! Everyone has there own ideas on gear....Tube or SS? Pedals or Rack gear? Processors Etc the list just goes on & on. Me I am a "Old-School" M-e-t-a-l Head & can't believe how long I did w/o the MP-1. Just never got around to getting one you know how it is...Guess you "Live & Learn". Got by with some Pedals but I still can't believe how F-A-S-T- I found a Metal Sound/Tone that just blew me away! Now I can add onto it from here & just keep progressing with it! Thanks Again for your time Richard!!  :metal: 
Logged

rnolan

  • Administrator
  • Superhero Member
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5995
Re: HAVING SOME "SOUND" ISSUES WITH MY MP-1??
« Reply #22 on: Time Format »

My pleasure, happy to help  :thumb-up: and it's awsome having MJMP and others on the forum, I learn lots from their posts as well.  I remember the first time I heard an MP1 (1986 ish), the shop owner said you've got to try this, patch 1 Marshall sound, I was hooked and I could have 128 patches at different master volumes (stoked).  At the time I was running 2 Marshalls (1972 50 and a Marshall keyboard 100 head), Rockman XL100 for lead (split accross the 2 Marshalls in stereo), Tom Schultz power soak on the M50 as neither Marshall had master vol, pedals, switch to send the guitar to either M50 or XL100 or both.  So I really wanted to consolidate (we were playing 5-6 days a week) and I wanted a lead boost that was easy to switch to and get above the other guitarists Boogie.  I sold the MP1 rig to a friend so I could buy the MP2 as soon as it arrived in Australia.  Been using it ever since.
Logged
Studio Rig: Stuff; Live Rig: More Stuff; Guitars: A few

RandallRG

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 254
Re: HAVING SOME "SOUND" ISSUES WITH MY MP-1??
« Reply #23 on: Time Format »

My pleasure, happy to help  :thumb-up: and it's awsome having MJMP and others on the forum, I learn lots from their posts as well.  I remember the first time I heard an MP1 (1986 ish), the shop owner said you've got to try this, patch 1 Marshall sound, I was hooked and I could have 128 patches at different master volumes (stoked).  At the time I was running 2 Marshalls (1972 50 and a Marshall keyboard 100 head), Rockman XL100 for lead (split accross the 2 Marshalls in stereo), Tom Schultz power soak on the M50 as neither Marshall had master vol, pedals, switch to send the guitar to either M50 or XL100 or both.  So I really wanted to consolidate (we were playing 5-6 days a week) and I wanted a lead boost that was easy to switch to and get above the other guitarists Boogie.  I sold the MP1 rig to a friend so I could buy the MP2 as soon as it arrived in Australia.  Been using it ever since.
Richard hey how ya doing? Hope all is well. Just qurious this is how I currently have my signal... My Kramer>MP-1>Hush II>MXR 6 Band BLUE>Randall RG100ES>Peavey XXL 4X12 (Only 2-12" Peavey's in it at the moment). Sounds Awesome as it is at the moment but if it was your's would you run it any differently? Thanks Buddy! \m/
« Last Edit: Time Format by RandallRG »
Logged

rnolan

  • Administrator
  • Superhero Member
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5995
Re: HAVING SOME "SOUND" ISSUES WITH MY MP-1??
« Reply #24 on: Time Format »

The way you've patched it isn't good gain structure so I'd do it differently.  However, if it sounds awesome.....
Some better options (for better gain structure):- First, MXR pedals (which I have a soft spot for) are (typically) instrument (millivolt) level devices and should be before the MP1.  The Hush II I'm not sure, but it seems from your pic the one you have is mono and given you are feeding it into the MXR it would (should ) also be inst level otherwise the MXR input would be overloaded. The MP1 out is line level (~1 volt), so it seems the Hush is dropping the line level down to inst level to feed the MXR ?
Try these ideas, (you can always put it back):
Guitar > MXR > Hush II > MP1 out A > RG100 effects return (bypass the RGs input/pre-amp, the RGs master vol should still work) MP1 out B > other (you have 3 ?) RG head effects return > Amp head outs to their respective cabs. So now (awesome) stereo and gain structure the way it should be.
A variation would be to put the Hush and MXR in the MP1 loop, adjust the in/out gains on MP1 to match as they are inst level.  The MP1 loop can handle either inst level or line (but not both at the same time) and has some adjustment to set correct gain levels.  Turn the loop on on a patch (you'll need to turn the loop on for all patches that you want to go through the hush and MXR) and adjust the loop mix on the patch(s) to max (100%).
Personally, I wouldn't use the hush or MXR but then I'm not playing as hi gain as I used to.
Logged
Studio Rig: Stuff; Live Rig: More Stuff; Guitars: A few

RandallRG

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 254
Re: HAVING SOME "SOUND" ISSUES WITH MY MP-1??
« Reply #25 on: Time Format »

See Rich that's why I wanted to ask you to see what you might do? Yes at the moment it does sound pretty good to me yet if I can set it up differently & have it sounding better hey I am all for it!  :banana-rock: I will try this later but check out the pic...My RG100ES only has (1)FX-Return & (1)FX-Send? The other day I did try & go from the MP-1 "Output" A to the FX-Return of the Randall (to by-pass the input/pre-amp) & it sounded bad it was "Weak" way to "Thin"/"Trebly" sounding it had NO Volume (the RG's Master Volume DOES NOT work when it's run like this?) & NO BALLS! (LOL!) Why do you think there would there be NO Sound/Volume coming from my Randall being used this way? Nothing was plugged into the Front "Input" of my Randall. So far running it the way I told you I am at the moment sounds the Best. The Volume + Everything else works (Hush & 6 Band Etc) Anyway here's the pic to check out....Thanks!

« Last Edit: Time Format by RandallRG »
Logged

rnolan

  • Administrator
  • Superhero Member
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5995
Re: HAVING SOME "SOUND" ISSUES WITH MY MP-1??
« Reply #26 on: Time Format »

Hi Steve, apart from trying to get the gain structure better, I want to get you running in stereo (as that will be an immediate BIG improvement).  What other amps do you have ?  In your pics I see 3 Randall heads, what are the other two ? Do they work, do the cabs for them work ? Please advise.
I checked the RG100ES schematic, indeed the effects loop is after the master vol so it won't be operative if you plug into the effect return (bit silly but how it is).  The return has a switching jack socket so when a jack is plugged in it turns off the through connection from the send (so the signal gets through when nothings plugged into the loop).  The return feeds directly into the power amp circuit so should be a good place to plug the MP1 A or B output.

Can you try this and tell me how it goes, Plug MP1 A output into the return. Don't use (hush or MXR disconnect them) just Guitar > MP1 A out > RG return.  The volume is now controlled by the MP1.  If you crank the MP1 it should work fine, you need a decent signal to feed the power amp though (ie turn patch Master Vol up and the MP1 main vol knob up).
Also please try Guitar > MP1 A out > RG clean chan (again no hush or MXR), you may need to turn the clean chan vol down and adjust the MP1 vol down so you don't overload the input. Again let me know how it goes.

Another question, what levels are you typically setting in a patch for OD1, OD2 and Master vol Eq etc??, lets just focus on one patch you like (post the values for me to see) and use it for the above tests.  I have a feeling that your MP1 levels are turned down quite a bit which helps for your current setup but may be why the effect return sounds so thin.
Logged
Studio Rig: Stuff; Live Rig: More Stuff; Guitars: A few

RandallRG

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 254
Re: HAVING SOME "SOUND" ISSUES WITH MY MP-1??
« Reply #27 on: Time Format »

Below will answer your questions Rich......Thanks! :metal:
« Last Edit: Time Format by RandallRG »
Logged

RandallRG

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 254
Re: HAVING SOME "SOUND" ISSUES WITH MY MP-1??
« Reply #28 on: Time Format »

Hi Steve, apart from trying to get the gain structure better, I want to get you running in stereo (as that will be an immediate BIG improvement).  What other amps do you have ?  In your pics I see 3 Randall heads, what are the other two ? Do they work, do the cabs for them work ? Please advise.
I checked the RG100ES schematic, indeed the effects loop is after the master vol so it won't be operative if you plug into the effect return (bit silly but how it is).  The return has a switching jack socket so when a jack is plugged in it turns off the through connection from the send (so the signal gets through when nothings plugged into the loop).  The return feeds directly into the power amp circuit so should be a good place to plug the MP1 A or B output.
***Hey Richard again I just want to THANK YOU SO MUCH for taking the time out to discuss this with me & try to help me get my Rig sounding as BEST that I can with my MP-1! I do appreciate it Buddy!! Also I still have NOT put NEW Tubes in yet either? Which I am sure will help out.***
***Okay answer to the above paragraph...I have 3 Randall RG100ES Heads (Sold one of the Black Heads) all of them are the same just different build dates. I keep my 85' as a Full Stack along with my 2-4x12 Jaguar loaded Randall Cabs (kind of my 80's Randall Rig in Memory of Brother Dime (may he R.I.P.). Took me awhile to aquire all 3 of them. My Main Rig I am using in my House is the Zebra RG100ES along with the 4x12 Peavey XXL Slant (with just 2-Peavey Blue Marvels at the moment)***
 
Can you try this and tell me how it goes, Plug MP1 A output into the return. Don't use (hush or MXR disconnect them) just Guitar > MP1 A out > RG return.  The volume is now controlled by the MP1.  If you crank the MP1 it should work fine, you need a decent signal to feed the power amp though (ie turn patch Master Vol up and the MP1 main vol knob up).
******Answer to the above question...O.K. just plugging into the the Front of my MP-1 & using the "A" or "B" Output & going into the FX-Return on my RG100ES (Not using my Hush or MXR) still sounds like crap. Obviously not using any Volume from my RG (because I can't) just the Volume from the MP-1 all it sounds like is the same very "Thin/Trebly-Tinny" sounding with NO Bass & NO Balls whatsoever! (LOL!!)***

Also please try Guitar > MP1 A out > RG clean chan (again no hush or MXR), you may need to turn the clean chan vol down and adjust the MP1 vol down so you don't overload the input. Again let me know how it goes.
***O.K. answering this is NO problem...SOUNDS THE BEST! Running it this way has NO issues. I have read that it's good to leave your MP-1 Volume down as much as possible & turn your Amp Volume up....Sound right to you? Anyway I can run it this way along with the Hush & 6 Band (if I want to) & I will get the same results a very good sounding MP-1!!***

Another question, what levels are you typically setting in a patch for OD1, OD2 and Master vol Eq etc??, lets just focus on one patch you like (post the values for me to see) and use it for the above tests.  I have a feeling that your MP1 levels are turned down quite a bit which helps for your current setup but may be why the effect return sounds so thin.
***O.K. one of my Favorite Patches I have been messing around with (to me anyway it sounds Killer! Hopefully when I add the Digitizer 4 it will add some nice Delay to it! It goes like this...***
*OD1=(9.0)
*OD2=(8.0)
*MG=(6.0)
*B=(12)
*M=(-12)
*T=(-6)
*P=(12)
*D=(40)
*R=(3.6)
*V=T.D
Now of course I can go + or - on the OD's & MG Etc but where I have it now sounds pretty good to my ears. I am waiting on a ADA Digitizer 4 to get here & I am hoping that this unit will add some Killer Delay/Etc to my sound. From what Marshall & Kawai2g4b say about it...it sounds like a pretty good piece of gear! We shall see! \m/
« Last Edit: Time Format by RandallRG »
Logged

rnolan

  • Administrator
  • Superhero Member
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5995
Re: HAVING SOME "SOUND" ISSUES WITH MY MP-1??
« Reply #29 on: Time Format »

Thanks Steve, ok lets abandon the RG returns Idea, it should work but... if it sounds crap...  With the drive levels in your patch, the only other reasons for not enough level going to the return would be MP1 main out being low (which of coarse you need to keep low to not overload the clean input, but you tried cranking the MP1 out up for test) or maybe an impedance mis-match with MP1 outs and RG return or there are issues with the RGs loop.
Ok next test, try guitar > MP1 A out to RG(one of them) clean in and MP1 B out to RG clean in (other one of them), one cab for each RG.  This should sound great (turn chorus depth to 100 and rate to 0.0).  This will probably be the best it's sounded so far. 
Next we'll work out the best place to put the Hush MXR and new digitiser 4.  Initially I'd put the digitiser in the MP1 loop (but then what to do with the digitiser's B output (inverted mix) well we don't have to use it).  The best way to put all this together is with a small stereo mixer (4 or 6 channel) with at least one (preferably more) effects (aux) sends on each channel.
Let me now if above (stereo test) is successful (it should sound great).  Then we'll try some options for the hush, MXR and Digitiser.
BTW your patch looks good, very hi gain, I'd call it a lead sound but since your playing metal, it could be a rhythm sound ;) Another question, what are the eq settings your using on the RGs clean input (typically you would have these as flat as possible (no boost or cut) so the MP1 does the eq) ??

Logged
Studio Rig: Stuff; Live Rig: More Stuff; Guitars: A few
Pages: 1 [2] 3   Go Up