ADA Depot - A Forum To Support Users of ADA Amplification Gear
Let's Get Technical => All PREAMP Tech Tips & Support => Topic started by: RandallRG on January 10, 2014, 08:09:13 PM
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Hey Dudes hows it going? I just picked up a MP-1 & here's whats going on..I am using my Randall RG100ES (R.I.P. Dime) & I am running into my 4x12 Randall Jaguar Loaded Cab. I have my Axe plugged into the front Input of my MP-1 then from Output "A" I am running to the Input of my Randall & I am on the Clean Channel. I don't know what is going on but on just about all the Pre-Sets my sound is just "Muddy"/"Fizzy" Etc...NO BALLS! LOL! I also have a Digitech RP-1 (there first processor from waaay back in the day that basically just dwells on my Pedal Board:) & it's set up the same way & all of the "Pre-Sets" on it sound Killer!! Nice & L-O-U-D! If anyone has any idea what may be going on with mine I sure would appreciate any Info/Help! Thanks for your time & Take it easy...Steve \m/
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Try sending the output from your MP-1 to the effects return jack on RG100ES
Thereby bypassing the pre-amp section of the Randall, as you are already using the MP-1 as pre-amp.
See if that improves it some 8)
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Thanks for the suggestion Peter. If I run the Output of the MP-1 to the Return (& originally I had it going to the Input of my Randall) what would get run to the Input of the Randall? Thanks..\m/
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Thanks for the suggestion Peter. If I run the Output of the MP-1 to the Return (& originally I had it going to the Input of my Randall) what would get run to the Input of the Randall? Thanks..\m/
You run nothing to the input of the Randall, you only utilize the power amp.
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You run nothing to the input of the Randall, you only utilize the power amp.
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Thanks for the advice Pete that's what I figured but I wanted to make sure. Bypassing the Pre-Amp didn't sound right either (VooDoo says to run it like that with a Tube Head) so after some checking & adjustments with the settings etc I am back to running it from the Output to my Input of the Randall & now its starting to come around for sure. I am probably not getting the sound I am wanting right away due to the fact that I am using a ss Head. I am sure this works better with a Tube Head Etc?Anyway I am starting to get some good sounding Metal out of it & will keep tweaking it over time to get some Heavier stuff! Thanks Again Pete! Take it easy.....Steve \m/
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Good that it's starting to work now, however it should (almost by definition) sound better going straight into the power amp.
Maybe your output A is not working correctly?
Try output B (they should be identical).
You can even try the effectloop send from the MP1 direct into power amp of the Randall
:P
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Good that it's starting to work now, however it should (almost by definition) sound better going straight into the power amp.
Maybe your output A is not working correctly?
Try output B (they should be identical).
You can even try the effectloop send from the MP1 direct into power amp of the Randall
:P
Hey Pete thanks for the Info/Help Buddy...I do appreciate it! You know you would think it should or would sound better going straight into my Randall's Power Amp....but it doesn't? Tried both "A & B" & with the same result a very "Thin/Weak/Tinny Trebly" sound to both along with a very good amount of "Hissssss". Sounds BEST from the MP-1 "Output" to my "Input" on my Randall & TRUST ME IT CRANKS! LOL! I am sure you know about the RG100ES Heads...I can't even really push it past 1 or the Windows start to rattle! :metal: Either way I guess I will start looking @ some patches (saw some of P. Gilbert's on here...Have to check them out! :) & start to have some "Fun" with this unit & bring myself back to the 80's!! Thanks Again Pete! LONG LIVE THE M-E-T-A-L! \m/
*Here's a shot of my 85' Randall RG100ES with Matching Jaguar Loaded Cabs Full Stack in memory of Dime (R.I.P. Brother) along with my 88' RG100ES C.C. Deville "Zebra Print" & I also have another 88' RG100ES with the Killer "Fuzzy" Grey Carpet so I got em covered in all the bases! I had a 88' RG80ES but Traded it awhile back. I liked the RG100ES's better. I think my MP-1 will be right @ home here! Yeah guess you can say I am a bit of a Randall F-R-E-A-K! LOL*
(http://i494.photobucket.com/albums/rr306/32spitzer/403_zpscd626fd9.jpg) (http://s494.photobucket.com/user/32spitzer/media/403_zpscd626fd9.jpg.html)
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Maybe your mp-1 is in need of new tubes?
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Maybe your mp-1 is in need of new tubes?
You know I have got it sounding pretty KILLER at the moment & when I crank on it a bit with my Randall....O.M.G. DUDE IT'S S-I-C-K!! But I was thinking about the Tubes also. I am checking with the Dude who owned it before me to find out approx how long they have been in for? What Tubes do you like for Metal & which ones would you suggest? Just curious I know the deal on the Tubes...just thought I would get your opinion on them? Here's a shot of mine I have the 12AX7A's. Thanks Marshall! \m/
(http://i494.photobucket.com/albums/rr306/32spitzer/391_zps6262a51d.jpg) (http://s494.photobucket.com/user/32spitzer/media/391_zps6262a51d.jpg.html)
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Hey Steve, they look very much like the original tubes (I'm pretty sure they are from the photo, no brand just 12AX7A printed on them) in which case they are Chinese bottles and as old as the unit so replacing them is a very sensible idea. While there's lots of choices, I recommend New Sensor Mullards, Boogie STRs (usually JJs) or JJs in that order of (my personal) preference. (but there are lots of choices). I seem to remember there was an output level switch on the top of my MP1 ? which switched the output between guitar (inst) level and line level (or am I dreaming ?). It's not referred to in the version of the .pdf manual I have, but it also doesn't mention the rear panel input being line level (which my MP1 had) so may be for a later MP1 version ? Anyway, If I'm right and the switch is there, it should be switched to guitar (inst) level to plug into your amps clean input (pre-amp) stage or set to line level to plug into the effects loop return bypassing the additional pre-amp stage. What you describe sounds very much like a gain miss match and I suspect (if the switch is on your unit) it's set to guitar (inst) level (so no enough herbs to drive the Randall effect return, and thin, tinny fizzy noisy etc).
Cheers Richard
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Hey Steve, they look very much like the original tubes (I'm pretty sure they are from the photo, no brand just 12AX7A printed on them) in which case they are Chinese bottles and as old as the unit so replacing them is a very sensible idea. While there's lots of choices, I recommend New Sensor Mullards, Boogie STRs (usually JJs) or JJs in that order of (my personal) preference. (but there are lots of choices). I seem to remember there was an output level switch on the top of my MP1 ? which switched the output between guitar (inst) level and line level (or am I dreaming ?). It's not referred to in the version of the .pdf manual I have, but it also doesn't mention the rear panel input being line level (which my MP1 had) so may be for a later MP1 version ? Anyway, If I'm right and the switch is there, it should be switched to guitar (inst) level to plug into your amps clean input (pre-amp) stage or set to line level to plug into the effects loop return bypassing the additional pre-amp stage. What you describe sounds very much like a gain miss match and I suspect (if the switch is on your unit) it's set to guitar (inst) level (so no enough herbs to drive the Randall effect return, and thin, tinny fizzy noisy etc).
Cheers Richard
Hey Richard how ya doing? Hope all is well. Thanks for all the Info on the Tubes Mate! Always wanted a MP-1 & I finally have one so learning all this from you guys here & reading up & watching some videos etc is really helping me out & F-a-s-t! Honestly as far as the Tubes go they probably are the "Original" Ones. When you put new Tubes in these MP-1's is there that much of a "Noticeable" difference in overall Sound/Tone Etc? When you turn the unit on about how long should you warm up the Tubes (approx. ?) Oh & NO Rich your NOT Dreaming! (LOL!) some MP-1's do come with the Line Switch up top mine does NOT have it but that is some great info about it....Thanks! I guess when I started this thread as far as my "Sound Issue" (which I thought it was @ the time) basically was just things being out of adjustment etc. It's really coming around. There is SO MUCH you can do with a MP-1 as far as Shaping your Tone Etc. I always wanted one & remembering all the Guitar Gods from back in the 80's using them. The sound was Killer & I am all about the M-E-T-A-L! \m/ Anyway Thanks again for the Info & Help I do appreciate it! \m/
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Looks like this is a late V2.00 or V2.01 mp-1,so no topswitch.I can confirm these are the original tubes so they must be +20 years old now.
My guess is replacing these will give you a better sound.I'm a JJ fan (tubewise) and i use the Ruby 12AX7ACHG.These are JJ tubes but tested by Ruby.And they also give a warranty of 3 months (or is it 6).
Anyway you're from the US right?I can recommend doug's tubes.He sells alot of different brands and he tests them.A bit more expensive then off the shelf tubes but you will get the best quality.
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Looks like this is a late V2.00 or V2.01 mp-1,so no topswitch.I can confirm these are the original tubes so they must be +20 years old now.
My guess is replacing these will give you a better sound.I'm a JJ fan (tubewise) and i use the Ruby 12AX7ACHG.These are JJ tubes but tested by Ruby.And they also give a warranty of 3 months (or is it 6).
Anyway you're from the US right?I can recommend doug's tubes.He sells alot of different brands and he tests them.A bit more expensive then off the shelf tubes but you will get the best quality.
Hey Buddy YES it's a 2.01 whats the Main difference between the 2.00 & the 2.01 just software up-dating or ? WOW if these are the Original Tubes (How many years are they suppose to last!) I didn't think they would last this long! (LOL!) Your right it has NO Top Switch. Guess either way putting a new set of Tubes in might "wake" the old Girl up even more ayy? With NEW Tubes would that bring out anymore Distortion or Clarity in the Sound? Where can you find out the year of a MP-1 on the Board somewhere? I see the Transformer is dated (B-507E-93) being the Transformer is a 93' does that mean the unit itself is to? Thanks for mentioning Doug's I had already found them on the web a few days ago. Thanks for the info...\m/
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The difference is mostly the firmware altough i've seen one that still had the topswitch.Must have been an really early V2.
What's the serial number of the mp-1 (you can find it on the white sticker on the back of the unit or inside the unit.
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The difference is mostly the firmware altough i've seen one that still had the topswitch.Must have been an really early V2.
What's the serial number of the mp-1 (you can find it on the white sticker on the back of the unit or inside the unit.
Yeah figured it had to do with the Software Etc. I thought the Serial # is on the White Sticker I was wondering how you can find out what Year it is? I saw a video on Y/Tube & I think you can find out the year somewhere on the M/Board? Thanks...\m/
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Hey Steve, The original tubes lasted a long time, I didn't change my MP1 tubes for quite a few years. Tubes degrade very slowly over time and lose some crispness, get a bit flat/mushy sounding or even noisy less output etc. The older tubes were "pumped" for much longer (2.5 hours ish vs 30 mins ish these days) giving a better vacuum and thus lasting longer. You'll hear the difference with new tubes instantly and they tend to settle (burn in) over the first few days. Some tubes are higher output (eg Mullards) so will give more gain (distortion). The Ruby tested JJs that MJMP likes will be great. From the valve chart posted previously they have a little less gain but lower microphonic noise than the Mullards. I love the Mullards because they are so 3D which suits my playing.
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Richard hey Mate Thank you for all of the info on the Tubes...very interesting. If I am liking the way my MP-1 sounds @ the moment I can only imagine what it will sound like with some new Tubes in it! After doing some experimenting I have found myself about the "Perfect" 80's Metal Tone/Sound (for myself anyway! lol!) a little bit more "Tweaking" ad my Wah & I am right back in the 80's! LONG LIVE THE M-E-T-A-L! \m/
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Richard Thanks for the chart. Hey just wondering......what do you think of these there JJ's?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=121148613189&ssPageName=ADME:X:RTQ:US:1123
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Hey Steve, they look fine (although not much information on them) but I'd buy tubes from Doug's Tubes as he tests them and the price is probably very similar. Moreover, lots of guys on this site have dealt with Doug and all have good things to say. If your after JJs, the Boogie STRs (music shops should carry them) are good and also well tested but often a little more expensive. Or go with MJMPs advice and get Ruby JJs as they also do thorough testing. Or you could buy them from here (http://evatco.com.au/product-list/audio-tubes/12ax7jj/), you'll save 10% GST because your not in Australia and also the AUD has dropped quite a bit lately. I bought my Mullards from these guys, very knowledgeable and reputable people.
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Had to ask....since I am running my Axe through the Front "Input" of my MP-1 & then the "Output" of the MP-1 to the Front "Input" of my Randall RG100ES (& Trust Me it sounds Killer.Nice/Clear & L-O-U-D! NO issues Etc) Would there be that much of a difference if one day I got a Poweramp (Mesa Etc?) & ran it through it? It works great through my Randall the way I have it @ the moment....MP-1>MXR 6 Band (Blue)>Rocktron Hush II>Randall RG100ES>Randall 4x12 Jaguar Loaded Cab. Just wondering because it seems like many run it through a Rack Poweramp>4X12 Etc ? I am not running any gear through my loop (would anything sound better through it or just leave it the way I have it?) I don't believe any Mods were done to my MP-1 & I have to admit...it's pretty quiet NO noise etc. Guess the "Mini" Hush is working? Just curious? Thanks! \m/
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Hi Steve, the advantage of using the MP1 loop is it's adjustable for level so you can put EITHER (not both) line level or guitar (inst) level effects in it, adjust the send/return levels then mix that sound with the dry signal. You run the effect full wet (no dry) the mix level is adjustable in the ADA for each patch so the amount of effect can be varied to suit the patch. Down side of the MP1 loop is it's mono (wouldn't bother you with your current set up) and you need to use mono effects or just one channel of a stereo unit. If you wanted to add a delay unit I would use the loop, better gain structure and versatility.
ADA pre-amps were designed to run into a clean/transparent stereo power amp. I used an ADA B200s (124w per chan into 4 ohms) and loved it. I now have a Carvin TS100 all tube amp but again it's very clean and transparent, I'm not trying to get any colour from the power amp. Down side of the tube power amps is weight and heat, they are heavy (1 power transformer and 2 output trannys (one per chan in a stereo amp)). The TS100 is quite heavy and is in its own 2 RU rack while I had the B200s in the main rack. The B200s is not light (1 largish power tranny) but much lighter, less heat and smaller footprint than tube power amps.
If you go down the rack power amp path the main reason (for me) would be to run in stereo. It makes a "huge" difference (I'll never go back to mono). Even without the benefit of full stereo effects (another good reason to go this way (ahh stereo reverb, my fav)) it will bring your MP1 alive. But of course then you need 2 cabs (or a stereo cab). 2 separate cabs sound better than a stereo cab (sound doesn't mix inside the box) but a stereo cab with MP1 in stereo sounds better than mono. Now all this costs of course. One thing I wouldn't recommend is to put a rack stereo effect between your MP1 and the power amp (this way the effect/dry mix is done in the effect unit) as typically the first thing digital rack effect units do (eg TC G major) is convert you lovey analogue tube sound into digital. Ideally you want to mix the digital effect with your analogue dry signal. Check out my post (and others) in the how do you connect your rack gear thread I started a while ago (http://adadepot.com/index.php?topic=117.0).
Checking out the pics of your gear, you have enough to go stereo now, send the MP1 outs to 2 of your Randalls (ie duplicate your current set up). You could then put a stereo effect unit (I use an old Alesis Quadverb) in the send return loops of the Randalls (one left chan the other the right chan). Once you connect the MP1 to 2 amps, try adjusting the chorus on a patch to depth 100 and rate 0.0. This will add a nice fattening (short ~20 ms) delay between the A and B outputs, sounds great, I do this on all my patches that don't require the ADA chorus (as chorus). Anyway, to give stereo a try, you only need to plug an extra input cable between your MP1 and your other Randalls clean input, crank it and drool :whoohoo!:
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Richard I want to Thank You very much for all the info Sir....For you to take the time out & write all this down for me I really do appreciate it! Between you & Marshall I have learned so much since I got here all of the knowledge is great. Tell you what the more I get to try different Patches & do more adjustments etc on my MP-1 it really is I-N-S-A-N-E how much there really is to this unit! Everyone has there own ideas on gear....Tube or SS? Pedals or Rack gear? Processors Etc the list just goes on & on. Me I am a "Old-School" M-e-t-a-l Head & can't believe how long I did w/o the MP-1. Just never got around to getting one you know how it is...Guess you "Live & Learn". Got by with some Pedals but I still can't believe how F-A-S-T- I found a Metal Sound/Tone that just blew me away! Now I can add onto it from here & just keep progressing with it! Thanks Again for your time Richard!! :metal:
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My pleasure, happy to help :thumb-up: and it's awsome having MJMP and others on the forum, I learn lots from their posts as well. I remember the first time I heard an MP1 (1986 ish), the shop owner said you've got to try this, patch 1 Marshall sound, I was hooked and I could have 128 patches at different master volumes (stoked). At the time I was running 2 Marshalls (1972 50 and a Marshall keyboard 100 head), Rockman XL100 for lead (split accross the 2 Marshalls in stereo), Tom Schultz power soak on the M50 as neither Marshall had master vol, pedals, switch to send the guitar to either M50 or XL100 or both. So I really wanted to consolidate (we were playing 5-6 days a week) and I wanted a lead boost that was easy to switch to and get above the other guitarists Boogie. I sold the MP1 rig to a friend so I could buy the MP2 as soon as it arrived in Australia. Been using it ever since.
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My pleasure, happy to help :thumb-up: and it's awsome having MJMP and others on the forum, I learn lots from their posts as well. I remember the first time I heard an MP1 (1986 ish), the shop owner said you've got to try this, patch 1 Marshall sound, I was hooked and I could have 128 patches at different master volumes (stoked). At the time I was running 2 Marshalls (1972 50 and a Marshall keyboard 100 head), Rockman XL100 for lead (split accross the 2 Marshalls in stereo), Tom Schultz power soak on the M50 as neither Marshall had master vol, pedals, switch to send the guitar to either M50 or XL100 or both. So I really wanted to consolidate (we were playing 5-6 days a week) and I wanted a lead boost that was easy to switch to and get above the other guitarists Boogie. I sold the MP1 rig to a friend so I could buy the MP2 as soon as it arrived in Australia. Been using it ever since.
Richard hey how ya doing? Hope all is well. Just qurious this is how I currently have my signal... My Kramer>MP-1>Hush II>MXR 6 Band BLUE>Randall RG100ES>Peavey XXL 4X12 (Only 2-12" Peavey's in it at the moment). Sounds Awesome as it is at the moment but if it was your's would you run it any differently? Thanks Buddy! \m/
(http://i494.photobucket.com/albums/rr306/32spitzer/412_zpsc22069a7.jpg) (http://s494.photobucket.com/user/32spitzer/media/412_zpsc22069a7.jpg.html)
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The way you've patched it isn't good gain structure so I'd do it differently. However, if it sounds awesome.....
Some better options (for better gain structure):- First, MXR pedals (which I have a soft spot for) are (typically) instrument (millivolt) level devices and should be before the MP1. The Hush II I'm not sure, but it seems from your pic the one you have is mono and given you are feeding it into the MXR it would (should ) also be inst level otherwise the MXR input would be overloaded. The MP1 out is line level (~1 volt), so it seems the Hush is dropping the line level down to inst level to feed the MXR ?
Try these ideas, (you can always put it back):
Guitar > MXR > Hush II > MP1 out A > RG100 effects return (bypass the RGs input/pre-amp, the RGs master vol should still work) MP1 out B > other (you have 3 ?) RG head effects return > Amp head outs to their respective cabs. So now (awesome) stereo and gain structure the way it should be.
A variation would be to put the Hush and MXR in the MP1 loop, adjust the in/out gains on MP1 to match as they are inst level. The MP1 loop can handle either inst level or line (but not both at the same time) and has some adjustment to set correct gain levels. Turn the loop on on a patch (you'll need to turn the loop on for all patches that you want to go through the hush and MXR) and adjust the loop mix on the patch(s) to max (100%).
Personally, I wouldn't use the hush or MXR but then I'm not playing as hi gain as I used to.
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See Rich that's why I wanted to ask you to see what you might do? Yes at the moment it does sound pretty good to me yet if I can set it up differently & have it sounding better hey I am all for it! :banana-rock: I will try this later but check out the pic...My RG100ES only has (1)FX-Return & (1)FX-Send? The other day I did try & go from the MP-1 "Output" A to the FX-Return of the Randall (to by-pass the input/pre-amp) & it sounded bad it was "Weak" way to "Thin"/"Trebly" sounding it had NO Volume (the RG's Master Volume DOES NOT work when it's run like this?) & NO BALLS! (LOL!) Why do you think there would there be NO Sound/Volume coming from my Randall being used this way? Nothing was plugged into the Front "Input" of my Randall. So far running it the way I told you I am at the moment sounds the Best. The Volume + Everything else works (Hush & 6 Band Etc) Anyway here's the pic to check out....Thanks!
(http://i494.photobucket.com/albums/rr306/32spitzer/33_zpsc2d1724c.jpg) (http://s494.photobucket.com/user/32spitzer/media/33_zpsc2d1724c.jpg.html)
(http://i494.photobucket.com/albums/rr306/32spitzer/286_zpscdbd99ec.jpg) (http://s494.photobucket.com/user/32spitzer/media/286_zpscdbd99ec.jpg.html)
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Hi Steve, apart from trying to get the gain structure better, I want to get you running in stereo (as that will be an immediate BIG improvement). What other amps do you have ? In your pics I see 3 Randall heads, what are the other two ? Do they work, do the cabs for them work ? Please advise.
I checked the RG100ES schematic, indeed the effects loop is after the master vol so it won't be operative if you plug into the effect return (bit silly but how it is). The return has a switching jack socket so when a jack is plugged in it turns off the through connection from the send (so the signal gets through when nothings plugged into the loop). The return feeds directly into the power amp circuit so should be a good place to plug the MP1 A or B output.
Can you try this and tell me how it goes, Plug MP1 A output into the return. Don't use (hush or MXR disconnect them) just Guitar > MP1 A out > RG return. The volume is now controlled by the MP1. If you crank the MP1 it should work fine, you need a decent signal to feed the power amp though (ie turn patch Master Vol up and the MP1 main vol knob up).
Also please try Guitar > MP1 A out > RG clean chan (again no hush or MXR), you may need to turn the clean chan vol down and adjust the MP1 vol down so you don't overload the input. Again let me know how it goes.
Another question, what levels are you typically setting in a patch for OD1, OD2 and Master vol Eq etc??, lets just focus on one patch you like (post the values for me to see) and use it for the above tests. I have a feeling that your MP1 levels are turned down quite a bit which helps for your current setup but may be why the effect return sounds so thin.
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Below will answer your questions Rich......Thanks! :metal:
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Hi Steve, apart from trying to get the gain structure better, I want to get you running in stereo (as that will be an immediate BIG improvement). What other amps do you have ? In your pics I see 3 Randall heads, what are the other two ? Do they work, do the cabs for them work ? Please advise.
I checked the RG100ES schematic, indeed the effects loop is after the master vol so it won't be operative if you plug into the effect return (bit silly but how it is). The return has a switching jack socket so when a jack is plugged in it turns off the through connection from the send (so the signal gets through when nothings plugged into the loop). The return feeds directly into the power amp circuit so should be a good place to plug the MP1 A or B output.
***Hey Richard again I just want to THANK YOU SO MUCH for taking the time out to discuss this with me & try to help me get my Rig sounding as BEST that I can with my MP-1! I do appreciate it Buddy!! Also I still have NOT put NEW Tubes in yet either? Which I am sure will help out.***
***Okay answer to the above paragraph...I have 3 Randall RG100ES Heads (Sold one of the Black Heads) all of them are the same just different build dates. I keep my 85' as a Full Stack along with my 2-4x12 Jaguar loaded Randall Cabs (kind of my 80's Randall Rig in Memory of Brother Dime (may he R.I.P.). Took me awhile to aquire all 3 of them. My Main Rig I am using in my House is the Zebra RG100ES along with the 4x12 Peavey XXL Slant (with just 2-Peavey Blue Marvels at the moment)***
Can you try this and tell me how it goes, Plug MP1 A output into the return. Don't use (hush or MXR disconnect them) just Guitar > MP1 A out > RG return. The volume is now controlled by the MP1. If you crank the MP1 it should work fine, you need a decent signal to feed the power amp though (ie turn patch Master Vol up and the MP1 main vol knob up).
******Answer to the above question...O.K. just plugging into the the Front of my MP-1 & using the "A" or "B" Output & going into the FX-Return on my RG100ES (Not using my Hush or MXR) still sounds like crap. Obviously not using any Volume from my RG (because I can't) just the Volume from the MP-1 all it sounds like is the same very "Thin/Trebly-Tinny" sounding with NO Bass & NO Balls whatsoever! (LOL!!)***
Also please try Guitar > MP1 A out > RG clean chan (again no hush or MXR), you may need to turn the clean chan vol down and adjust the MP1 vol down so you don't overload the input. Again let me know how it goes.
***O.K. answering this is NO problem...SOUNDS THE BEST! Running it this way has NO issues. I have read that it's good to leave your MP-1 Volume down as much as possible & turn your Amp Volume up....Sound right to you? Anyway I can run it this way along with the Hush & 6 Band (if I want to) & I will get the same results a very good sounding MP-1!!***
Another question, what levels are you typically setting in a patch for OD1, OD2 and Master vol Eq etc??, lets just focus on one patch you like (post the values for me to see) and use it for the above tests. I have a feeling that your MP1 levels are turned down quite a bit which helps for your current setup but may be why the effect return sounds so thin.
***O.K. one of my Favorite Patches I have been messing around with (to me anyway it sounds Killer! Hopefully when I add the Digitizer 4 it will add some nice Delay to it! It goes like this...***
*OD1=(9.0)
*OD2=(8.0)
*MG=(6.0)
*B=(12)
*M=(-12)
*T=(-6)
*P=(12)
*D=(40)
*R=(3.6)
*V=T.D
Now of course I can go + or - on the OD's & MG Etc but where I have it now sounds pretty good to my ears. I am waiting on a ADA Digitizer 4 to get here & I am hoping that this unit will add some Killer Delay/Etc to my sound. From what Marshall & Kawai2g4b say about it...it sounds like a pretty good piece of gear! We shall see! \m/
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Thanks Steve, ok lets abandon the RG returns Idea, it should work but... if it sounds crap... With the drive levels in your patch, the only other reasons for not enough level going to the return would be MP1 main out being low (which of coarse you need to keep low to not overload the clean input, but you tried cranking the MP1 out up for test) or maybe an impedance mis-match with MP1 outs and RG return or there are issues with the RGs loop.
Ok next test, try guitar > MP1 A out to RG(one of them) clean in and MP1 B out to RG clean in (other one of them), one cab for each RG. This should sound great (turn chorus depth to 100 and rate to 0.0). This will probably be the best it's sounded so far.
Next we'll work out the best place to put the Hush MXR and new digitiser 4. Initially I'd put the digitiser in the MP1 loop (but then what to do with the digitiser's B output (inverted mix) well we don't have to use it). The best way to put all this together is with a small stereo mixer (4 or 6 channel) with at least one (preferably more) effects (aux) sends on each channel.
Let me now if above (stereo test) is successful (it should sound great). Then we'll try some options for the hush, MXR and Digitiser.
BTW your patch looks good, very hi gain, I'd call it a lead sound but since your playing metal, it could be a rhythm sound ;) Another question, what are the eq settings your using on the RGs clean input (typically you would have these as flat as possible (no boost or cut) so the MP1 does the eq) ??
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I had hollow fizzy sound issues and found that one of the chorus was not set to zero - fixed it.
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Thanks Steve, ok lets abandon the RG returns Idea, it should work but... if it sounds crap... With the drive levels in your patch, the only other reasons for not enough level going to the return would be MP1 main out being low (which of coarse you need to keep low to not overload the clean input, but you tried cranking the MP1 out up for test) or maybe an impedance mis-match with MP1 outs and RG return or there are issues with the RGs loop.
Ok next test, try guitar > MP1 A out to RG(one of them) clean in and MP1 B out to RG clean in (other one of them), one cab for each RG. This should sound great (turn chorus depth to 100 and rate to 0.0). This will probably be the best it's sounded so far.
Next we'll work out the best place to put the Hush MXR and new digitiser 4. Initially I'd put the digitiser in the MP1 loop (but then what to do with the digitiser's B output (inverted mix) well we don't have to use it). The best way to put all this together is with a small stereo mixer (4 or 6 channel) with at least one (preferably more) effects (aux) sends on each channel.
Let me now if above (stereo test) is successful (it should sound great). Then we'll try some options for the hush, MXR and Digitiser.
BTW your patch looks good, very hi gain, I'd call it a lead sound but since your playing metal, it could be a rhythm sound ;) Another question, what are the eq settings your using on the RGs clean input (typically you would have these as flat as possible (no boost or cut) so the MP1 does the eq) ??
Rich hey man how ya doing? Question...Would it be better to run the D4 through the MP-1 Effects Loop or just Out of my MP-1 to the "Input" of my D4? If I do run it through the Effects Loop would I run it MP-1 "Send" to D4 "Input" & MP-1 "Receive" to D4 "Output"? Leave the MP-1 "Output" alone & to the Front "Input" of my Randall? Thanks for any info Dude!
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Hey Steve, I posted some of this on the other thread, best in the MP1 loop and turn the D4 wet-dry mix to full wet (full effect no dry sound) and use the MP1 return mix levels to get the right balance between wet and dry for the patch (you can adjust it for each patch then). If you ran it after the MP1 (ie before amp) you will have to control the wet - dry mix levels in the D4 also it would (could) create a bit of a gain miss-match issue as you are running into your RG input. Go with the MP1 loop for now, when I talk you into getting a small mixing desk then you'd run it off an effects (Aux) send and do the mixing with the desk.
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That won't work IMO,the mp-1 has a serial loop,the full wet you suggest works only with parallel loops.
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A salient point MJMP, I didn't know the MP1 loop is serial, I never used the loop when I had one, I used a mixer from the beginning to keep everything stereo and make all the gain structure easier. So the 2 MP2 loops must be parallel as they have a mix level control.
So Steve what this means is you adjust your effect to dry signal level in the D4 if you use it in the MP1 loop, which, IMO, is the best place for you to put it with your current set up. You could put the D4 between your hush and MXR running it at instrument level, again you'd adjust the wet to dry mix on the D4 (MP1 > hush > D4 > MXR eq >RG clean in)
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Yep the mp-2 has a stereo serial / parallel loop,if you put the mix to 100% it's serial.
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Marshall all I can say Buddy is that I have been doing some experimenting with my D4 & O.M.G. Dude...some of the Factory "Pre-Sets" on this thing are BAD-ASS my Brother! Like you said C1-2-& 3 are Killer! B4 (320ms Echo) is I-N-S-A-N-E....I LOVE IT!!! It sounds pretty Wicked & I am only using my Peavey XXL 4X12 Slant (That has only 2-Peavey Blue Marvels in it at the moment)....Man this thing sounds good! I am glad I jumped on this Digitizer 4 (& for the price I got it for I really do think it was worth it) & with the help from you Marshall & Kawai2g4b you guys were basically my "Purchasing Point". Marshall like you & I spoke about I am NOT running it through the Loop. It sounds much better this way for sure! Once again Thanks Guys! \m/
(http://i494.photobucket.com/albums/rr306/32spitzer/420_zpsb0e8d0b4.jpg) (http://s494.photobucket.com/user/32spitzer/media/420_zpsb0e8d0b4.jpg.html)
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No problem!