ADA Depot - A Forum To Support Users of ADA Amplification Gear
Non ADA Gear => Guitars => Topic started by: Systematic Chaos on October 30, 2015, 01:41:05 AM
-
As I mentioned in another thread I totally dig unfinished/oil-wax finished necks (à la Ernie Ball Music Man)....
Just found this tutorial which is totally BOSS!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RiDm4JKtICk
-
Weather over here is crappy since thursday and since I alraedy planned to restring 5 guitars I gave all of them the neck treatment as mentioned in the tutorial YT vid....
Holy sh!t!! What a difference...AWESOME feel and playability.
I had already treated the necks on my guitars with oil/wax in the past but apparantly I used a too fine grit sanding paper....
320 grit tops is what you wanna use!!!
(http://i992.photobucket.com/albums/af41/MagnusBausW/1447CC21-E42A-4BD9-A244-3E8E1E73B27C_zpsvibkwzto.jpg)
-
Hey SC,
Why only as far as 320 grit?
Is it to let the oil/wax soak in?
Or to have a nice feel on the neck?
-
Hey SC,
Why only as far as 320 grit?
Is it to let the oil/wax soak in?
Or to have a nice feel on the neck?
I also thought 320 sounded a bit too rough when I first watched that vid... I used 600 and up before and was quite satisfied, but that dude in the vid is spot on with 320 if you wanna achieve that feel of a Ernie Ball Music Man neck
I'll do some close-up pics later
-
Thanks SC ... so it's a feel thing.
This may explain where I went wrong ... I sanded one of my guitar necks way past 600 grit, so really really smooth. But it didn't feel like wood after I was finished, more like a paint finish.
-
Hey SC, thanks for these posts, I may or may not do it but you've got me thinking :crazy: , I spose I just have to try it to find out if it's for me, so far, from your take (which I value BTW), I'd probably like it..
-
Hey SC,
Why only as far as 320 grit?
Is it to let the oil/wax soak in?
Or to have a nice feel on the neck?
It sounds counter-intuitive, but if the neck is too smooth it will actually grab your skin better. That is why some of the highly polished Les Paul necks can feel sticky.
The oil/wax should be used very sparingly, as it will collect dirt and turn into a gummy mess over time. The very best finish is actually no regular oil/wax at all. I use Tung oil on my natural wood surfaces, because it tends to penetrate and seal the wood without feeling oily afterwards.
-
I used Tung-Oil on the neck of my old Peavey Vandenberg Series 1....
The B'wood Casey Tru-Oil/Gunstock Wax treatment feels (personal taste) even better and comes closer to the (subjective) feel of an EBMM JP neck (love it).
Benchmark (for me) is a very early model of the ESP George Lynch Skulls&Snakes (had a vintage/modern headstock and offset dots) I used to own in the mid/late 90s.....
(http://www.guitarguitar.co.uk/large/130/px-EH127XF10471.jpg)
That neck felt sooo yummie and the above mentioned treatment gets me closest to that.
YMMV....
-
Hey SC and GuitarBuilder,
I've been doing some research on oil finishes, so many different opinions out there, and some confusion too.
Personally, I couldn't decide between tru-oil or tung oil, so I flipped a coin ... heads, tru-oil it is then :thumb-up:
I'm going to redo the neck that I finished too smoothly. This time with 320 grit, just a few coats of tru-oil, then the wax.
I think the guitar body could do with some TLC as well, should I try the wax?
(http://i64.tinypic.com/332qec4.jpg)
-
What finish does the body have now?
-
It looks and feels like an oil/wax finish on a solid koa body, no sign of lacquer.
It was really grubby/gummy when I first got it so I used some surface cleaner to remove the grime and wax, but I haven't done anything to it since then. It's a tricky piece of wood, the finish/grain looks very different depending on which angle your looking from.
I was hoping that re-applying some wax would be a quick fix that would rejuvenate the finish and bring out the grain of the koa a bit more? I'm not after a gloss/shiny finish, but as close to a natural wood feel/finish as possible.
-
I'd recommend a light cleaning with Naphtha (lighter fluid will work). Following it with Tru-Oil would be a great option. I'd save the wax until afterwards.
-
+1
Clean it with Naphtha/Lighter Fluid, let it rest/dry. After that work all body surface with a sanding carded web (does the same as steel wool, equivalent of 00 or 000 should be sufficient).
Apply a couple of coats of Tru-Oil (5-8 for the body), make sure to let them dry completely.
Once tha last coat has completely dried, work it over with 0000 steel wool and finish it with a couple of coats of Gunstock Wax.
-
Hey SC and GB, thank you for the advice, much appreciated.
I put an order in for some Tru-Oil and Wax yesterday, once it arrives I'll make a start on the guitar.
I'm not sure what "sanding carded web" is? Would wet/dry paper do instead, say 400/600 grit?
HaHa ... there's gonna be a learning curve for me here. I'm comfortable working with metal, but wood is completely new territory.
-
Use steel wool 000
-
ok, thank you :thumb-up:
-
And watch out for steel wool fragments getting into your PUs ((steel + magnets..) best to do this with all hard wear removed), you can mask off the PUs but better to remove everything and work on the bare body. I'm not familiar with the sanding carded web either, I suspect it works like steel wool but no steel involved ??
-
Hey SC and GB, thank you for the advice, much appreciated.
I put an order in for some Tru-Oil and Wax yesterday, once it arrives I'll make a start on the guitar.
I'm not sure what "sanding carded web" is? Would wet/dry paper do instead, say 400/600 grit?
HaHa ... there's gonna be a learning curve for me here. I'm comfortable working with metal, but wood is completely new territory.
Sorry, had to google that translation as well....in Germany we call it "Schleif-Vlies", looks like this:
(http://www.neidhartbasel-shop.ch/media/catalog/product/cache/3/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/5/4/5451812000000.jpg)
Advantage over steel wool is that it doesn´t leave the steel residue steel wool does.
Anyways, 000 steel wool should work fine. I´d say 600 grit paper is too fine already.
If you do the neck with 320 grit and the follow-on steps and like the outcome I´d apply the same (grit/wool-wise) to the body as well.
-
In the US it's called Scotch-Brite
-
In Australia Scotch Bright are scourer sponges for washing dishes (similar to the pic SC posted with sponge attached, and they are green (scourer bit) and yellow sponge).
Hey DR, wood is lovely to work with and hurts less than metal :facepalm: , most necks are either sugar "rock" maple (beautiful white hardwood) or mahogany (there are a few varieties mostly affecting looks (e.g. sapelie (African) mahogany which has nice ribbon (slightly darker streaks) grain)). It's a medium hard wood, a bit softer and bigger grain than maple. But both are nice to work with. Maple is a bit harder so blunts things (chisel, plane, sandpaper) more quickly but isn't usually cranky (like Ebony can be...).
@SC, I'm curious why you'd sand off the lacquer/finish rather than use stripper then 320 grit to finish, use allot less sanding ?
-
Scotch-Brite ... yep, makes perfect sense to me now :D
I've used it a lot over the years, just recently to finish some ally yokes on a chop I've been building ... it gave them more of a uniform matt finish that I was looking for ... otherwise I'd have to spend countless hours trying to mirror polish them.
-
Just a quick update ...
The Jackson neck has been sanded to 280 grit, I'm sat here waiting for the first coat of Tru-Oil to dry. I'll start work on the body tomorrow, all the hardware's been removed, just need to prep it for the Tru-Oil. :thumb-up:
-
Cool, go DR :thumb-up:
-
I've done all my custom builds with Formby's Tung Oil and 0000 steel wool between coats. On the necks, I'll finish with the steel wool but on the bodies I usually leave them untouched. Kind of gives a semi-gloss look:
Before Oil:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0903/Stephan/Southeast%20Guitars%20Projects/P1010009.jpg)
After Oil:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0903/Stephan/Southeast%20Guitars%20Projects/100_0045.jpg)
-
Ahhhhh....it's beautiful!
-
Nice !!!! Just one question,when you use oil doesn't this leave a how should i say this a greasy feeling?
-
Really nice ... I like it :thumb-up:
-
Thanks guys..
MarshallJMP, the Formby's tung oil I use is pretty thin and more like the consistency of water. Once it dries, you can't feel any type of residue at all and the finish is almost what I would call a hard finish almost like a clear coat.
Here are a couple more that I've done with the same method:
Flamed Claro Walnut Top over Mahogany
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0903/Stephan/stephanwalnut_zpsn7hkxm0v.jpg)
Quilted Maple Top over Mahogany
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0903/Stephan/stephanquiltedns_zpsh3bkfe5c.jpg)
And I gotta give a shout out to my buddy Warren at Southeast Guitars, he's the guy that built these bodies from scratch. I just put them together and finish them out, and they are for my own personal use. I don't build to sell. But, if anyone is looking for top of the line guitar bodies from plain jane wood to stunning exotics... Hit Warren up, he's a master and all his guitar bodies are hand built... Absolutely NO cnc.
www.southeastguitars.com (http://www.southeastguitars.com)
-
That's downright woodporn :banana-dance:
-
That's downright woodporn :banana-dance:
Yes it is!! Nice guitars :thumb-up:
-
Thanks again. :bow:
-
Hey WinD, Wow, what great results :thumb-up: , my fav is the flamed maple. I notice it got a slight neck PU upgrade between before and after shots, is that a SD57 ?, I just ordered one for a squire strat I'm doing up and I've got a nice new SD hot rails for the bridge. I want something nice and creamy for the neck and my mate in the store said it would be perfect.
So MikeBs fav is the Claro Walnut but we both thought the maple FB would go better with the quilted maple and the rosewood FB with the walnut, just from a looks perspective.
Good to hear you don't feel any residue from the oil.
BTW MP2 going very well, it's my go to MP2 at the moment (very sweet sounding MP2 :whoohoo!: ), although it's got the MP2 issue where I have to start with a patch that includes compressor or no output, so I just adjust my boot up routine to start with a clean patch.
-
Hey WinD, Wow, what great results :thumb-up: , my fav is the flamed maple. I notice it got a slight neck PU upgrade between before and after shots, is that a SD57 ?, I just ordered one for a squire strat I'm doing up and I've got a nice new SD hot rails for the bridge. I want something nice and creamy for the neck and my mate in the store said it would be perfect.
So MikeBs fav is the Claro Walnut but we both thought the maple FB would go better with the quilted maple and the rosewood FB with the walnut, just from a looks perspective.
Good to hear you don't feel any residue from the oil.
BTW MP2 going very well, it's my go to MP2 at the moment (very sweet sounding MP2 :whoohoo!: ), although it's got the MP2 issue where I have to start with a patch that includes compressor or no output, so I just adjust my boot up routine to start with a clean patch.
Thanks.. Yes, the flamed maple has a Seymour Duncan Lil' 59 in the neck now. The bridge is a Dimarzio Super 3. I'm thinking of eventually going with a different bridge p/u though, as the Super 3 is really high output and tends to cut the highs a bit more than I'd like. I chose that particular p/u due to the amount of maple in the guitar, and figured it would help tame the higher frequencies. I've always kind of thought of that guitar as a great "rhythm" guitar, as it's very chunky sounding. Since I've gotten away from the rack setup (and the tonal versatility of it), the super output on that bridge p/u really smacks the front end of my current amp setup really hard and can make it sound a bit harsh at times.
With regard to the necks, the darker ones are actually Pau Ferro.. Although I love the "warmth" of a rosewood neck, I've never really been a fan of rosewood (just from a feel perspective), and have always leaned more toward ebony or maple boards. Pau Ferro kind of gives the benefits of both, it's more of a tight grain with a harder/slicker feel than rosewood but not quite as bright as ebony and maple so you still retain a bit of warmth to help balance out that super thick maple top. Also, from an aesthetic point, I thought it would contrast nicely with the maple.
Glad to hear you're still enjoying that MP2.. I really loved the versatility of the rack setup, but that thing was a beast to try to move around. LOL
Here is a short clip of me just noodling around with the flamed maple guitar, and my old ADA MP2 back around 2008-ish just after it was built. Sorry it's so dark, but it gives a decent representation of how it sounded... At least on the higher gain channels. This was just a short demo I did for a guitar forum I was a part of back then, that wanted to hear what the MP2 sounded like. Don't mind the playing, there really is no rhyme or reason.. LOL
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w4dsiFci-jU
-
Sounds really good :thumb-up:
-
I forgot to update my earlier post on this topic … I finished the Jackson a few weeks ago. It took longer than anticipated but I'm really pleased with the results.
The work on the neck went well. I decided to sand it down to 600 grit to get the feel I was looking for, then 5 or 6 thin coats of oil, and finally a couple of coats of wax. I think the use of wax was an important final step … it does dull the oil finish a little, but it feels nicer to the touch (removes a bit of stickiness).
The work on the guitar body proved more challenging, it took a couple of tries to get it right. For the preparation process I used the oil to wet sand the guitar body and to act as a grain (pore) filler. Then I applied about 8 thin coats of oil, allowing a day or so between coats for drying time, and finally a few coats of wax again.
I've lined up two more guitar necks that I'm gonna refinish now :facepalm:
-
Pics,we need pics !!!!!! :lol:
-
... you're absolutely right MJMP, it need pics!!!
Does anybody know how to take good quality guitar pics indoors? I've tried a few times but the light is always fighting against me, whether it's daylight, artificial light, or camera flash ... there's always a reflection.
-
My ex wife is a photographer so I picked up a few tips and tricks, you need to bounce the light of another surface (bounce flash is the technique). She used to aim (bounce) the camera flash of the ceiling. Otherwise you need camera style lighting where the light is aimed into a reflector. Or you could aim lights at a surface (ceiling/wall etc) to make it indirect.
-
Thanks for the tip Richard. Just a few Belgian beers from MJMP and I'll have no problem pointing a camera at the ceiling :???: :))
-
Are you sure about that :lol:
-
:lol: No, I'm not sure now ... I think I should have said "after a few Belgian beers nothing will be pointing at the ceiling" :lol:
-
Great hahahaha :lol: