Miscellaneous > Gigs - Live Talk
Getting your Sound
Kim:
--- Quote from: DannyjoeCarter on February 24, 2017, 02:02:02 PM ---Now also bear in mind however you think your tone is at bedroom volume or small gig volume becomes completely different at 110 dB. This is my territory and for me if the unit or whatever I'm using doesn't cut through or make the grade at super high volume I don't need or want it. So many guys I have seen take "their sound" from their room or practice room and have to crank it and everything falls apart and then they are depressed. So to me I start at crazy volume and then back down from there ;D
--- End quote ---
Solid advice. I do the same when determining where I want to set OD levels. Give it ALL the gain at a Volume somewhere higher than Medium and lower than OMG :banana-trip:, and roll it back to find the sweet spot.
Common "Metal Rookie" mistakes:
#1: Using all the available Overdrive Gain. :dunno:
#2 Scooping all the Mids out. :facepalm:
#3 Doing this at Bedroom Volume. :poop:
rabidgerry:
Interesting topic of conversation.
I'm about to flip it around though.
How to get your tone at (quite frankly) unsafe levels of volume?
Something I still struggle with because it only takes a few minutes for my ears to start ringing playing at loud volume through proper loud guitar speakers (12").
The region of frequencies I find hardest to determine are the hi end frequencies. Why is that so hard? Because this is actually the region that f*cks your hearing up. Not the bass or mids.
So here is the scenario:
You are playing at reasonable volume (not quite as loud as you need to beat the drummer but also not even close to bedroom volume), you are trying to get nice treble in your tone, with no fizz, but yet having a level of detail and clarity that keeps it from being muddy.
How do you all do this? What are your methods?
I have a spanner in the works also. So you may or may not wear musician earplugs which are generally supposed to have flat response. Do you adjust your tone at your loudest volume with these in? Or do you not?
I personally find wearing the ear plugs, I may end up putting a little more treble in than I need and therefore creating an overly bright or fizzy or harsh edged tone. Or is this paranoia? Does the sound just tend to sound like this without the ear plugs because it's just up so loud?
Interested in your thoughts?
(bare in mind I am not a newbie and I've played live for many years so this is not from a novice perspective).
P.S Yes I wear ear plugs, why? Because I need to save my ears for making records and I already know I've had damage done to them from the early years (thanks to drummers cymbals) of not wearing ear plugs but since I have started wearing them, I never get ringing or any painful head exploding effects playing live now.
Kim:
Well, of course it wouldn't be wise to try to get your sound dialed in at an unsafe volume. But the volume should be at or very close to a level that would make the speaker work a little, and generally this will always be waaay too loud for any "bedroom level" playing.
I learned this from a reputable source who has far more experience than I.
Three things to help find this is a flashlight, a friend, and over-the-ears hearing protection for both you and friend.
-Set your amp Bass Mid Treble straight up at wherever halfway is on your particular amp.
-Turn Pres all down, and Master Volume all down.
-Set the OD Gain up about halfway and get that ear protection on both of you.
-Your friend plugs in and just chugs the low string on your axe. Nothing fancy, no fast thrash triplets, just a steady chug...chug...chug...
While he's doing that, shine the flashlight through the grille cloth on your cab and observe the speaker's movement while slowly raising the Master Volume. Once you see the speaker actually doing something, stop raising the volume. Guitar speakers don't have nearly the amount of cone excursion of bass speakers or subwoofers, so you won't see it really moving a lot. What you will see is that it will appear to look a bit blurry on those chugs and now the speaker(s) are doing their work. Remember, you can always turn it down a little bit from here if you feel it needs to be, but turning it up louder shouldn't ever be necessary.
Adjust the Bass control now just to the point where you can feel and hear the actual cab itself resonating on those chugs.
The Master Volume and Bass is set, and your mate is really annoying you now with those chugs, so take your axe away from him and have him go get beer. :beer:
Now see about bringing the rest of your amp and OD level up to speed while leaving the Master Volume set right where you left it. Bring the OD level up as far you want, but if you want some clarity left you may want to roll that back just a bit. Should be easy enough to set your Mid Treb and Pres EQ from there, but those high frequencies in the Treble and Pres can be troublesome, more so in the Pres. area. Leave the Pres. until last after you're satisfied with the OD level, Mid and Treb. You shouldn't need a lot of Pres, since all the "cut" and "punch" in the guitar is lower frequencies than the "fizz" and "sizzle" (and "air" in Clean guitars) that the Pres. control handles. If it seems like you're getting "lost in the mix" bring the Mids up some. Make a note of where your settings are so that after this, you can just dial those settings in and be done with only very minor tweaks if needed.
Something to also consider is the actual speaker placement. Guitar speakers are very directional or "beamy" meaning that they project the sound straight out away from them with very little side dispersion. Because of this, it's easy to overdo the Pres. settings depending on where you are listening from. Save the hassle and adjust the Pres. while listening straight inline of the speaker. This is where the mic will be placed to project the sound through the PA as well, so it makes sense to get it right "here" instead of trying to get it correct from "over there". It will sound a less brighter from "over there" but you'll get used to that after knowing it's set correctly right where it needs to be set correctly. The ear protection will hinder the settings, (as you do need to preserve your hearing!) so you could let someone plug in while you step way back away from the speakers while staying inline with them to make the final determination.
As always, YMMV and your tone is Your Tone. I learned this from a reputable source who has far more experience than I. We can have the exact same guitar, same amp, same speakers, and play the exact same songs or genre; won't mean we'll arrive with exactly the same settings. But this will get you closer to a good live sound than by blindly Bass +12 Mid -12 Treb +12 the controls
rabidgerry:
--- Quote from: Kim on February 26, 2017, 10:05:34 AM --- But this will get you closer to a good live sound than by blindly Bass +12 Mid -12 Treb +12 the controls
--- End quote ---
Thankfully even at bedroom volumes (back when I was a bedroom guitarist I never cut out the mids, but it's a common mistake for a lot of people).
This is good advice Kim. Something I will try out. So obviously thought the years I have just "wung" it trying to set up my live tone. With your advice there is defined process in orderly steps which is good as it means if you screw up or have to start over you always just go back to step one to find the "neutral" place. Good for venues where you plug in and suddenly your tone is all up the left because you happen to be using someone else's cabs or the walls reverberate weirdly.
So you set your tone with hearing protection on then?
Iperfungus:
The more mids you give, the less gain you need! :thumb-up:
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