Hey guys. Got some time to do some recording last night and I wanted to share with you the results. The idea was to take my new MP-1 and plug it into the different power amp sections of my amps. I was hoping to glean how different tubes sound compared to each other.
For the test I used the MP-1 into different amps into my isolation box with a Scumback M75 (100 watt 8 ohms) and recorded with a Shure SM57, Focusrite 2i2, and Mixcraft. The MP-1 was hooked up through the return of the effects loop. So I should just be getting the pwoer section. No effects were added except for EQ on the Mesa (see below). The isolation box really allows me to crank the amps and push the tubes and the speakers.
Here's the isolation box to give you an idea.
(https://q2kpta.bn1302.livefilestore.com/y2pmxTdOUbzQiVCeppR5sBNz_jXzvPSI-yef-PQYlGIPCxfovP7D3tTUPH8dWgior2IE6KbL6m0EE9GeLx2dyZ3_3CM1QZuOwLXABGQMinS3t4/WP_001314.jpg?psid=1)
Amps Used in Order
-Crown X1000 Power Amp: This is a 300 watt per channel solid state power amp I picked up from Musician's Friend for $99. It's more suited for DJ or sound reinforcement but it was too cheap to pass up
-Mesa DC-5 6L6s: 50 watts. This is a really dark amps so I did add some small EQ post recording. It was way too bassy. I cut the lows and added a little high end.
-Marshall JCM 900 SL-X EL34s: 50 watts
-Peavey Classic 30 EL84s: 30 watts
-Jet City Picovalve KT66: 5 watts
Here's the track. The amps are changed at the end of each drum fill.
https://soundcloud.com/kfowler8/power-amp-test (https://soundcloud.com/kfowler8/power-amp-test)
Take a listen and I'll give my thoughts shortly.
I have to say that the Marshall really let it sing. From what I have heard the MP-1 into Marshall head return seems to be a classic pairing, now I know why.
So my thoughts:
For the most part I thought they all sounded good. There were certainly differences but they weren't huge. I need to let me wife listen to it and see if she can tell a difference.
Like kawai2g4b, the Marshall with EL34s was my favorite. It had that right balance of warmth and articulation. It really cut through well. My question here is how much of the difference is due to the power section itself or the EL34s? I suspect it's a combination of the two. So if I wanted to replicate this tone, would a Marshall 20/20 with EL84s do it? Or how about a Carvin TS100 with EL34s? Perhaps the closest is the Monobloc which I'm really trying to avoid due to the 3 rack spaces required and the weight.
The Picovalve with the KT66 was probably my second favorite. I love the KT66. It's a great tube.
Close behind the Picovalve, I would put Peavey Classic 30 with EL84s. I thought it sounded really good as well. Very little difference between it and the Pico.
Fourth, I would put the Crown solid state amp. I could tell the difference between it and the tube amps but it wasn't night and day. It wasn't as warm but very usable tones. I'm not sure in a band setting that any audience member could tell the difference. Definitely an option especially considering the price and weight. It's also dead quiet. One downside is even bridged it's no where near as loud as the tubes at 8 ohms. Everything I do is mic'd anyway so that really doesn't matter.
Last would be the Mesa with the 6L6. I was pretty surprised by this because it's my favorite combo amp. It's a naturally dark amp to begin with and incredibly loud. Louder than the Marshall. I suspect while running it at 7 I was getting some bass effect in the iso box. It's also probably more workable by adding an EQ in the mix. I always see the EQ though as more for tweaking. Not a total tone reshaper.
What I'd like to do next is try all the different tubes through the Picovalve. It's got this really neat self-biasing feature that lets you use any power amp tube other than the small EL84s. You could probably get a better idea of the tube impact there.
I haven't listened to the recording yet, but I intend to tonight when I get home.
About the DC-5: You know how weird the EQ on that amp is, it gets mushy if you turn the bass up too far. Likewise, too raspy and brittle if you turn up the highs. It's a strange bird, that amp.
When I am running my MP-2 into my DC-5, the settings are equally strange. I'm only using the clean channel, here are the settings (i think):
Gain = 3
Low = 3
Mid = 3
Hi = 4
Pres = 2
Rev = 2
Master = 10
That's the cleanest I can get it, compared to the direct-in mix, which is my reference point. All the gains sound good, all the cleans sound clear. Surprisingly, plenty of bottom end.
Quote from: Dante on August 07, 2014, 02:01:37 PM
I haven't listened to the recording yet, but I intend to tonight when I get home.
About the DC-5: You know how weird the EQ on that amp is, it gets mushy if you turn the bass up too far. Likewise, too raspy and brittle if you turn up the highs. It's a strange bird, that amp.
When I am running my MP-2 into my DC-5, the settings are equally strange. I'm only using the clean channel, here are the settings (i think):
Gain = 3
Low = 3
Mid = 3
Hi = 4
Pres = 2
Rev = 2
Master = 10
That's the cleanest I can get it, compared to the direct-in mix, which is my reference point. All the gains sound good, all the cleans sound clear. Surprisingly, plenty of bottom end.
Have you tried it through the effects loop?
I definitely find the EQ very different on the Mesa vs. The Marshall. Funny how the unique each amp is.
Interested to hear your thoughts on the recordings.
The Crown is the only that gives a full frequency response; all the others color the sound (read: lose the highs). Personally, I wouldn't want that - I'd adjust the EQ on the MP-1 instead.
Tend to agree with GB here, MP1/2 work best with really transparent power amps, B200s is my fav (old friends), I currently use a Carvin TS100, great amp with MP2 but weighs half of Dante's car lol. I do find a subtle difference between SS and Tube power amps (the clean, transparent, un-coloured ones). The B200s is just not there, you don't notice it, perfect just adds volume. The TS100 kind of says "I've got Valve Grunt" bit I'll behave...
Hey Dante, check out the ADA APP-1 manual (posted or go to AD/A). There's a good bit about getting the eq on various amps flat (ish) for preamp input (the setting were not what I expected..)
For me the EL34 Marshall hands down wins this!
Quote from: kfowler8 on August 07, 2014, 04:50:29 PM
Quote from: Dante on August 07, 2014, 02:01:37 PM
I haven't listened to the recording yet, but I intend to tonight when I get home.
About the DC-5: You know how weird the EQ on that amp is, it gets mushy if you turn the bass up too far. Likewise, too raspy and brittle if you turn up the highs. It's a strange bird, that amp.
When I am running my MP-2 into my DC-5, the settings are equally strange. I'm only using the clean channel, here are the settings (i think):
Gain = 3
Low = 3
Mid = 3
Hi = 4
Pres = 2
Rev = 2
Master = 10
That's the cleanest I can get it, compared to the direct-in mix, which is my reference point. All the gains sound good, all the cleans sound clear. Surprisingly, plenty of bottom end.
Have you tried it through the effects loop?
Yes I did. I cannot recall my impressions now, but it couldn't have been very good, or I would still be using it :)
Well for me the marshall sounded the best,more mids so it cuts better into the mix,second place the picovalve,a bit less mids but more highs,3th place,the peavy,here you can really hear the difference between EL34' and EL84's tubes,4th place the crown,altough IMHO it sounds to sterile,no warmth at all and nr 5 the boogie,sounds to musshy.
I may have a Mosvalve on the way so it'll be interesting to see how it compares.
Nice, you are going to like it...that presence control is the key. Dead reliable from my experience.
Quote from: MarshallJMP on August 09, 2014, 02:57:44 AM
Well for me the marshall sounded the best,more mids so it cuts better into the mix,second place the picovalve,a bit less mids but more highs,3th place,the peavy,here you can really hear the difference between EL34' and EL84's tubes,4th place the crown,altough IMHO it sounds to sterile,no warmth at all and nr 5 the boogie,sounds to musshy.
+1 8)
I own 2 ADA Depot 3TM modded MP-1 preamps. These preamps, IME, sound best with a great sounding stereo tube power amp or the Mosvalve stereo power amps. I have owned the Mesa Boogie 20/20 (sold) & Strategy 400 power amps and Mosvalve MV 942 (single space, 160 watt version) and MV 982 (500 watt version) power amps. For compression and sustain, I felt that both of the Mesa Boogie power amps gave the MP-1 preamps that awesome tube tone and feel that makes the notes sing, especially when the volume is set somewhat loud and positioned in a sweet spot. Both of the Mosvalve power amps gave the preamps a tighter tone, heavier bottom when pushed for loud volume, portable, and more reliable.
Guitar George
Hey GG (I'm sounding like El LoL), while the Carvin TS 100 is a brick to lug, it's a great match with MP1/2, and it's new (ish), has definitely captured my respect. I still love the B200s, probably the Carvin DCM200l is a good SS match in a new amp (and the loudness "eq" switch would be useful).
What? me? what? jeje
I'm assuming jeje is pronounced GG :wave:
Or, hehe :thumb-up:
Well I'm wondering :crazy: