ADA Depot - A Forum To Support Users of ADA Amplification Gear
Non ADA Gear => Rack Gear => Topic started by: jarrodthebobo on April 13, 2014, 09:40:27 AM
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Hey guys, I've been wondering for a while how ya'll really felt about the BBE unit there and how you use it.
For me, I cannot use the MP-1 without a BBE as imho it sounds very lackluster, muddy, and overly middy and... gross sounding without one. YMMV but for me, I cannot do without the BBE. It may just be a glorified presence and low control, but for whatever reason it completely clears up the mud and removes the ugly mid spike (in the 1k range) it seems to have. Very honky and unusable for me, and I play with tons of mids.
For example: Using the Michael Wagner Patch (OD1: 4 0D2: 5.5 B:12 M:6 t:6 p:12) sounds just... not all too good through my rig (various rack effects and a Carvin ts100). However, using the BBE with low set to about 2:30 and the process set to about ten o clock, (which is what the BBE is ALWAYS set at) I can get a really nice 80s glam tone out of the ADA. Bringing in my Rane 15 band eq and playing around with the bands helps the unit out even more.
I may just be very picky with my tone, but to me, I cannot use the Mp-1 without the BBE...
Your thoughts?
P.s I use a kramer Pacer Deluxe with a JB in the bridge.
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Jarrod hey Dude hows it going? I see you over on the Kramer Forum (That's you...right? :dunno:) I have been a M-E-T-A-L Head since Birth Dude! :metal: It's funny with all of the Forums out there & everyone using all kinds of different gear etc & having the Good & Bad said about each piece of equipment where there's a MP-1 there ALWAYS seems to be a BBE close by or in the rack! ;D I for one am a Firm believer in using one & feel that it Definitely does it's job....& then some! :thumb-up: Many have said it makes it sound to "Processed" Etc. Everyone's hearing is different & what may sound good to you & I will sound like Crap to others. It's all a matter of Taste/Preference Etc...I usually keep my Lo around 5-6 & the Process around 1-2 anything more on the Contour & I feel that it becomes a bit on the "Muddy" side. When you get the Treble/Presence Etc set up right on the MP-1 it's all good. I have spent alot of time experimenting with the BBE On & Off & for me I can tell the difference w/o it for sure. It just gives you that Xtra "Bite" that you sometimes feel is missing in your Sound. All in all Dude I like what it does & how it effects my Sound/Tone so for me it does the job it's suppose to & it works Dude....
*I use my 85' Kramer Focus 1000 with a Real Floyd & Single EMG*
*Or my 86' Kramer Focus 4000 "V" with a Real Floyd & DiMarzio X2N in the Bridge*
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Yeah I guess it does come down to personal preference really... But I don't know it's fairly odd how much of a difference this unit it makes to my PERSONAL sound/ how crazy different the amp sounds with the BBE on or off.
I'll try and post a clip to show what I mean sooner or later!
P.S Yes, I am the same Jarrod that's on the Kramer Forum (take that as a good thing or a bad thing really, as of recent a few people have been attacking me and continuing unnecessary drama pertaining to myself and things in the past... but I guess that's to be expected by a site completely inhabited by some grumpy old men who need to get out of the house more than once a year :lol:).
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I have to say that I changed the way I make a patch (now I tend to have OD1 lower than OD2) and like this I'm not using the BBE anymore.
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The settings I used the most are the following 2 settings: A Van Halen setting, and a Lynch setting.
VH: OD1: 4.4 OD2: 4.4-4.6 b:12 m:6 t:6 p:12 BBE Lo= 2:30 Pro= 10 o' clock. Rane 15 band eq set for a small cuts in the lower end up to 100hz (100hz is kept at 0). 160hz is boosted slightly (about 3db). 250hz is cut by about 2-3db, and 400hz is cut by about the same amount. 630hz is boosted by about 5db, 800hz (in the quadraverb) is boosted by 3db, 1khz is at 0, 1.6khz at 0, 2.5khz boosted by about 1db, 4khz boosted by about 3-5db (depending on my mood), and the rest all boosted by less than 1db.
Quad is set up for a plate reverb with a predelay of about 100-110ms, -20 low cut -10 high cut, 9 reflections, 9 (other setting which name is escaping me).
Alter Ego delay set for one tape echo repeat, mix little less than halfway.
Lynch: OD1: 4.8 OD2: 5.5 (these two depend on what era of lynch tone we're talking about) B:9 m:4 t:6 p:8. The bbe is set the same as above, and so is the rane (although 4khz is cute down to about 2-3db).
Quad is set up for a hall reverb with a predelay of about 80-90ms, -20 low cut, -30 high cut, 8 reflections, and 8 of the other thing.
Alter ego set for tape delay, with about 3 repeats, mix a little under half, and delay time at about 10 o' clock.
If anyone wants to try these settings out with a similar setup, go ahead and give me some tips or compliments or whatever else you may have to say about this set up.
Thanks!
-Jarrod
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Forgot to mention I've been using the Orbit Maestro EP-3 Booster pedal (http://www.orbitelectronix.com) set with the level all the way up boosting the front end of my MP-1.
It's the only boost I've ever used that sounds good with this unit, and its ALWAYS on.
It gives the Mp-1 a lot more 'air' to the unit, and some more presence that isn't ice picky or harsh. It makes playing a lot easier too. I'd recommend it to anyone.
They're handmade, use nos parts, and are under $100.
Gonna post a video soon.
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Definitely would love to hear the Orbit with the MP-1 and am down for seeing the video as your rig is vastly different from mine. How does your rig respond to "darker" sounding instruments if I may ask?
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Definitely would love to hear the Orbit with the MP-1 and am down for seeing the video as your rig is vastly different from mine. How does your rig respond to "darker" sounding instruments if I may ask?
X2! Yeah Jarrod....would be Killer to hear the Orbit with the MP-1! Have not seen a video with both yet... :metal:
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Honestly most of my instruments (all 12 of them) are either strats (so pretty naturally bright), or are just guitars that'd you'd expect to sound quite bright no matter what they're plugged into.
I've been wanting to get a Les Paul or something similar for the longest time now, but I keep going back to my strats (mostly kramers...).
However, I will say that my custom Fender U.S build sounds absolutely fantastic on the neck pickup through my setup. It's very fluid and sweet, especially when I'm going for the Eric Johnson vibe.
I'll try and record a video of my setup when I get home tonight...
would ya'll rather me do a close mic recording of my marshall cabinet, or more of a room mix with the mic set back a bit between my two cabs?
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http://adadepot.com/index.php?topic=382.msg2677#msg2677
As promissed!
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I've kind of been looking for an alternative to the BBE for years but haven't found anything that works as well with the ADA MP-1.
I love the tone of the ADA but the only thing it's missing is that low end push. If I compare it with my EVH 5150 III or original Peavey 5150 I can dial in the same basic tone but it is always just missing that low end push.
I've got several different power amps. I have a Mosvalve MV-962, Carvin DCM200L, Peavey Classic 50/50 and ADA Microfet 100. I can even run it straight into the power section of my 5150's and even with the 6L6's at loud volume it just doesn't have that low end push that I desire.
If I add my BBE 422A with my ADA and run it through the power section of my 5150 I can A/B it with the actual 5150 Amp itself and get it about 95% the same and with a SS power amp probably 90% the same, which is great for aging backs.
The BBE does seem to add a little "sheen" of some sort that I can hear when I'm playing by myself and don't really like (which is why I've looked for alternatives) but usually in a full band situation I can't hear it.
I've been running 5150 amps since 1997 or 98 so maybe I'm just used to them. I used the ADA before that and I still use it, but I just wish it had a little better bottom end push without the BBE.
My ADA MP-1 is stock I always wondered if any of the mods helped that but they all seem to add more gain and I don't need more gain or a different gain structure, if anything it could probably use less gain.
But anyway, for right now, I agree that I find the BBE necessary.
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Realdealblues...very good read Dude & I know exactly what your saying when you talk about some "Low End Push". I to have said there is Definitely something about the BBE that just flat out works great with the MP-1. I run my MP-1 in the FX Return on my Randall RG100ES Head & it works & sounds Incredible! The volume that can be obtained (Simply put) is I-N-S-A-N-E! I recently was lucky enough to find a 3.666 "Recto" Modded MP-1 from a fellow member & I can tell you this much.....My BBE462 makes a VERY BIG difference for sure w/o a doubt. The "Recto" Mod already is Killer & has some great "Umph & Chug/Chug" to it in the Bass department with the "Bass-Wart" Trimpot.:thumb-up: I just adjusted them today & even when I got them all to sound what I feel represents some "KILLER M-E-T-A-L" Sound/Tone I then kick on my BBE & it's just got a whole new Sound & "Heaviness" to it.
I agree with you & quote you on this...("My ADA MP-1 is stock I always wondered if any of the mods helped that but they all seem to add more gain and I don't need more gain or a different gain structure, if anything it could probably use less gain"). The gain on the MP-1 (I feel anyway) is more than enough even on a Stock unit! I can't see using anymore than say 4.5-6.0 on OD1 & OD2 this works for me & may not for you or others etc depending on the gear that is being used. All In All either way I agree with you that I to do find the BBE necessary to get that xtra "UMPH" out of your MP-1... LONG LIVE THE M-E-T-A-L! :metal:
***Oh if I can ask you with the Power Amps you have listed a ("Mosvalve MV-962, Carvin DCM200L, Peavey Classic 50/50 and ADA Microfet 100") Can you tell me which unit you feel sounds the BEST to use with the MP-1? When the day does come for me to find a Power Amp I find it interesting to hear all of the comments & opinions etc on the different units that are out there. Thanks for your time***
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RandallRG...glad to know I'm not alone in my thoughts :)
And I totally agree about the OD settings. I mainly play classic rock and 80's hair band stuff. Most people use too much gain and distortion. To me you lose that crisp, clean, articulate character that stands out with most great players. I like to think of Van Halen's 1984 tone. Like Panama or Drop Dead Legs. He really has very little gain going. I see people play it on the EVH 5150 III and they max out the gain on Channel 2 and they keep wanting more gain. I keep the gain on that channel at 5 and I can get those tones without any problem. I have no problem getting the same amount of sustain and squeals with that lower gain setting. It's all in how you play and learning to control the equipment. The ADA works the same way for me. Now I don't play Death Metal or anything super heavy, but for Judas Priest or Ozzy or Van Halen or Ratt or Led Zeppelin or any of that kind of stuff you don't need to set the OD's on the ADA more 4 or 5, 6 tops.
As far as Power Amps. Honestly after I A/B'd them all the Carvin DCM200L is what's in my rack right now. It sounds pretty much identical to the Peavey Classic 50/50 tube amp and it's only 1 rack space and it only weighs like 4lbs. It's 100w per channel into 8 or 4 ohms. I run into 4 - 1x12 cabinets. I stack them up like the ADA Split Stack cabinets so they are like having 2 - 2x12 Vertical Cabinets. 1x12 cabs are so light and easy to carry :) It's plenty loud too and I like to play loud. No problem getting over a drummer or cutting through the mix. I have them all with 8 ohm speakers so I'm running it down to 4 ohms per channel. Now if you're running 16 ohm 4x12 cabs then you might look at another option.
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Here's the way my old ADA Rack look right now...although I might be changing up a few things.
(http://i777.photobucket.com/albums/yy60/realdealblues/ADARack1_zps92cef7b4.jpg) (http://s777.photobucket.com/user/realdealblues/media/ADARack1_zps92cef7b4.jpg.html)
Pretty simple:
ADA MP-1
Rocktron Hush IICX
Alesis Quadraverb
BBE Sonic Maximizer 422A
Carvin DCM200L
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Two quick questions:
- Are the BBE supposed to have no effect on the signal at 12oclock?
- Do you guys setup your BBEs after the preamp (before effects) or just before the power amp? The latter way would affect the tone of the power amp no?
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Two quick questions:
- Are the BBE supposed to have no effect on the signal at 12oclock?
- Do you guys setup your BBEs after the preamp (before effects) or just before the power amp? The latter way would affect the tone of the power amp no?
The Low Contour is supposed to be "Flat or Unity Gain" at the 12 o'clock position.
The Definition Control is supposed to be "Flat, with Phase Correction only" at the complete counter-clockwise position or roughly 7 o'clock position.
As where it goes in the signal chain. The BBE is designed to be the last thing before the power amp and because it's before the power amp, no it isn't going to effect the tone of the power amp itself. It's going to effect the tone of everything BEFORE the BBE.
The BBE is supposed to take all the signal placed before it and sum it out and compensate the time, phase and amplitudes, etc as to even everything out so that when it hits your power amp and is then projected through the speakers you hear all the different frequencies arrive at the same time. At least that's the technical mumbo jumbo.
Now, some guys like it before effects, some like it after. I tried it both ways and just preferred the way it sounded after the effects.
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I personally put the bbe directly after the ada mp1 in my signal chain and run a 15 band eq afterwards and it sounds pretty good to me. However I never had thought to try it last in chain... gonna try that out when i return from flkrida :thumb-up:..
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Forgot to mention because I have been experimenting with my BBE 462 as far as which way to run it & what sounds the BEST (to me & my ears anyway) so far I have found running it this way it sounds pretty good. (MP-1>Hush II) & my (BBE/Digitizer 4) in the Loop of my MP-1 (I know what has been said about the Loop in the MP-1 (not being that good) all I can say at least in this situation is that it works & sounds really good) & it really does bring the BBE & the D4 to life! Take a look online & you will find so much info on Forums Etc about the BBE. It's funny as Hell to find a Forum with 4-5 pages of just everyone saying "DON'T GET IT...YOU WILL REGRET IT!" (LOL) It will just completely Screw up your Tone/Sound & you will not ever find it again? It just Over processes your Sound & makes it like complete Crap Etc. Then there will be a page of Dudes that just praise it & say it has really done wonders for them..So go figure? Now of course if you don't get the settings right the BBE CAN & WILL make your Lows Muddy as Hell & your Highs so Ear Piercing that you will just Freak Out & Break Shit! LOL! Anyway this is just my $0.02.... :metal:
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Ooo someone else who has a hush II! Havnt found all too many people who use them or like them really... ah a/bed one of the larger full rack unit hushes to the hush II and they both honestly did a fairly well job at reducing the noise. Chose the hush II because of its size and price though.
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Yeah man you cant beat the price (I got mine for under $20.00! :thumb-up:) & it being a "Half" Rack is great! I like it...It does what it's suppose to & does it well. :metal:
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I too briefly fell under the spell of the BBE, about ten years ago, using it with my MP-1, MP-2 and Carvin Quad-X preamps. In the beginning, and in a home setting, I definitely felt the "How the heck did I EVER get by without the BBE."
But once I tried it in a band/"live situation, though, I saw (heard) a completely different picture. Sooooo, I promptly ditched it and never looked back.
NONE of my favorite artists use them, and there's a reason why......
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Jarrod, really like the video! You got everything clicking right now. O0
To DaveM: I do share your opinion of the BBE. At home, an exciter unit is a great tool, but when in a band or live in a noisy venue it just needlessly makes your signal spread out over other occupied frequencies and eliminates punchiness unless you use it conservatively. BTW, check your PM, got a question for you that I would rather not tread all over this thread with.
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I remember using it at band practice, and engaging the BBE would instantly cause my tone to disappear in the mix.
....never again
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I remember using it at band practice, and engaging the BBE would instantly cause my tone to disappear in the mix.
....never again
Yeah that's what I have been reading about in many Threads (Old threads etc over the years) People say that it sounds KILLER @ Bedroom volume etc but once in a Band setting Forget about it! It just can't cut it...(Then there are those that say the complete opposite about the same exact situation? LOL!) Like I said I guess you just have to try it out for yourself. I can say that in the House by yourself jamming it has some great Tone/Sound with it engaged. With my Randall RG100ES all I have to do is just barely turn the volume up on my MP-1 & it is M-E-G-A LOUD & the BBE sounds really good...We all Hear/See things differently so to each is own I guess? :metal:
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RandallRG...glad to know I'm not alone in my thoughts :)
And I totally agree about the OD settings. I mainly play classic rock and 80's hair band stuff. Most people use too much gain and distortion. To me you lose that crisp, clean, articulate character that stands out with most great players. I like to think of Van Halen's 1984 tone. Like Panama or Drop Dead Legs. He really has very little gain going. I see people play it on the EVH 5150 III and they max out the gain on Channel 2 and they keep wanting more gain. I keep the gain on that channel at 5 and I can get those tones without any problem. I have no problem getting the same amount of sustain and squeals with that lower gain setting. It's all in how you play and learning to control the equipment. The ADA works the same way for me. Now I don't play Death Metal or anything super heavy, but for Judas Priest or Ozzy or Van Halen or Ratt or Led Zeppelin or any of that kind of stuff you don't need to set the OD's on the ADA more 4 or 5, 6 tops.
As far as Power Amps. Honestly after I A/B'd them all the Carvin DCM200L is what's in my rack right now. It sounds pretty much identical to the Peavey Classic 50/50 tube amp and it's only 1 rack space and it only weighs like 4lbs. It's 100w per channel into 8 or 4 ohms. I run into 4 - 1x12 cabinets. I stack them up like the ADA Split Stack cabinets so they are like having 2 - 2x12 Vertical Cabinets. 1x12 cabs are so light and easy to carry :) It's plenty loud too and I like to play loud. No problem getting over a drummer or cutting through the mix. I have them all with 8 ohm speakers so I'm running it down to 4 ohms per channel. Now if you're running 16 ohm 4x12 cabs then you might look at another option.
Couldn't agree more, the older I get the more I've been backing off the distortion (my old rhythm sound is now my super over the top lead, used sparingly..), it's really all in the fingers...tubes do help BTW the New sensor Mullards (short and long plate versions) are very 3D and I'd proffer would suit your playing (I love them, they reflect every nuance in your fretting, you can hear every subtle pressure difference). Glad you like the DCM200L, I've not used one but they seemed a very good (and very light) amp for the ADA pre-amps, and only 1RU
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WEll I typically use my BBE rather conservatively and really do not like pulling the process knob anywhere above 9 o clock, personally at least. However, I've used the BBE in a bit of a jam session with a drummer and singer friend of mine and had no problems with the mix at all (Although I do tend to add quite a few bit of mids in my rane 15 band...). I also ALWAYS play loud enough to shake the lighting fixtures in my basement, so I'm definitely not playing at bedroom volume ;D
I've been farting around with my setup a bit more now, and to my ears, what the BBE is doing is spreading out the sound more or less. When I play without the BBE engaged, all the frequencies kind of just seem condensed into the middle (and thus the mp-1 sounds SUPER middy and muddy). The BBE seems to pull all the other frequencies away from this 'middle point' and helps everything sound a bit more defined... I guess some can interpret this as removing the mid frequencies...
I wish to do a bit of a 'better' video in the future comparing the BBE and ADA together with and without the BBE on. That last video I did arguably sucked quite a bit and my playing was less than fantastic xD. I kind of just want to show that the BBE does not make your tone sound processed per say unless you really crank the knobs, really. I can still get a very organic sounding VH tone with the BBE on, whereas many people I see on forums and reviews say it completely 'digitizes' your sound...
I wanna do something for you guys... hahah, any suggestions? :thumb-up:
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I wanna do something for you guys... hahah, any suggestions? :thumb-up:
Try it in stereo :thumb-up: >:D
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As far as Power Amps. Honestly after I A/B'd them all the Carvin DCM200L is what's in my rack right now. It sounds pretty much identical to the Peavey Classic 50/50 tube amp and it's only 1 rack space and it only weighs like 4lbs.
So what you are saying is that the Carving isn't a transparent poweramp but has a tube amp flavor? or that the Peavey even that it was a tube amp didn't added the tube characteristics to your tone?
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As far as Power Amps. Honestly after I A/B'd them all the Carvin DCM200L is what's in my rack right now. It sounds pretty much identical to the Peavey Classic 50/50 tube amp and it's only 1 rack space and it only weighs like 4lbs.
So what you are saying is that the Carving isn't a transparent poweramp but has a tube amp flavor? or that the Peavey even that it was a tube amp didn't added the tube characteristics to your tone?
Well, there's two things going on there I should clarify.
First off, the Peavey 50/50 has EL84 tubes which will not have the tone or power of EL34 or 6L6's. It's a different sound, but still has that touch of tube warmth.
Second, the Carvin DCM200L has an EQ Expand Button on the front of the unit which adjusts the amplifier to work better in a Guitar Rig. I think it even says in the manual if you're using it in a Guitar situation to push the button in. Anyway, it adjusts some of the frequencies to give kind of a Mosfet thing where it attempts to make the sound more tube like and warm. Now, with the EQ Expand Button "Out" it is a transparent SS amp that you could use for a PA.
If I run the Carvin with the BBE, I leave the EQ Expand "Out" and shape the tone with the BBE, but you could easily run the Carvin without the BBE and use the EQ Expand button on the Carvin and sound very much like you're using a tube amp.
When I A/B'd the Carvin against the Peavey 50/50 and used the EQ Expand on the Carvin it was pretty much the exact same sound.
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Do they say anywhere what the eq expand actually does ? (what freq's it affects etc). When I was researching the DCM100 (the previous version which has the same eq switch), all it said in the manual (Carvin manuals don't have much in them...) was it was good for studio enhancement (as their pitch for that amp was it was a good amp for studio monitors). Nothing else and nothing about guitar. Not that it bothered me too much as I like Carvin amps, they've been a leader in super lite, high power, transparent switched power supply poweramps for years (first we ever got in Australia). I couldn't believe how lite they were, when they first came out (many years ago), you could pick up a 2RU 1200 w amp with your little finger, this is back when a 1000w power amp weighed more than Dante's car, and I used to lug racks of 3 or 4 of them.
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Do they say anywhere what the eq expand actually does ? (what freq's it affects etc).
From my understanding it scoops the mids, like a 4db cut around 1khz or something. Either way it sounds damn good. I'm actually getting ready to do some more trial and testing work on the ADA, the Carvin DCM and a few other things I've got laying around. I've got a couple new ideas of how to make it sound a little better. If it works I might try to make a video or at least record out some good sound clips.
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To BBE or NOT To.BBE. Do not use BBE. Get a Good EQ.
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Or a MP2 which includes 2 good eqs... and great gain >:D
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Your better off with a EQ. Yes it does a Mid Scoop which sounds muddy. Its actually a delay unit. Its sounds good un theory but when you've actually use them they make the guitar and or your Mixes sound shittier. Presonus made a great 3 band parametric EQ. Gary Holt uses them with his Engl Powerball and Invader. They straight slay period. Sell you BBE and get a couple presonus's.
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I run an eq unit as well as the BBE. Without the BBE my setup sounds absolutely lack-luster (and I've tried various different EQ settings with both the EQ unit on and off). The rest of my setup is also in no means cheap or low-end, so its not the fault of the rest of the setup, but just due to the fact that the MP-1 to my ears does not sound all too great without the BBE.
The MP-1 to my ears is incredibley thin and has the bass frequency set way too high to be as effective as it should be (or for it to sound good, for that matter). The BBE helps to fix this issue however, adding a large amount of low end and general fullness to the overall sound, and I have zero problems with the mix when I use the BBE. In fact, my guitar sound in mix sounds a hell of a lot BETTER with the BBE.
Tweaking all the sliders on the EQ unit, with the BBE off, has not lead to results as satisfying as with the BBE on. Bass boosted, mids cut/mids boosted, highs tweaked, etc etc. everything you would typically do to help pull a better tone out of a thin setup just did not satisfy me as much as the BBE did. Honestly sometimes an EQ is just not the end-all to tonal problems.
The fact of the matter is most of the people who complain about the BBE and tell everyone to throw them out and "get a good eq" probably don't/haven't used the BBE correctly. It's supposed to be used subtly as a TOOL, not as an overall effect. Turning the process knob anywhere above the 9oclock position leads to a very processed, mid cut, tinny sound, and pulling the lo knob up above 2-3oclock leads to a bassy mess.
You need to work with the unit to find the correct settings that work with your unit... not sit back and complain that its a P.O.S when you cannot find the correct way to utilize it; subtly.
The BBE, contrary to popular belief, does not NEED to turn your tone into a processed mess. Using the unit SUBTLY with my VH patch leads to a very organic tone reminiscent of a genuine marshall head. Many people who complain about the ADA mainly say that you can tell that its a preamp, that it doesn't have 'the sound' that a real head does. I can agree with this statement... until I add in the BBE however.
...This is all person taste however... so you cannot take everything I say as 100% fact. However, this also means don't blindly listen to people spewing hate about the unit, especially those who overuse the effect (which many of the people who've complained about the unit have likely done).
Peace.
-Jarrod
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I know what your getting at. To be perfectly honest if your using a BBE and a EQ you should probably upgrade your rig. Try a poweramp that actually produces a solid punchy lowend. I could A/B Bbe and EQ. EQ is gonna win everytime. Here's the main reason I got rid of my BBE's still have one laying around. The Tone Pad is pretty cheap honestly that a Mod on my its Cheap Cap and Quad Amps. But hey if it works for you "Party On Dude!" Lol.
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I've used BBE on and off for the last 16 years so I have plenty experience enough that I can say the older Blue models sound better than the newer Red ones. My best experience with BBE is that it will make Cheap/Harsh shitty P.A. Drivers sound better. If you have a bad ass amp don't BBE. Maybe if it a had a selectable Mid Freq and Level I might go back but, I've moved on and never looked back.
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Interesting rave, I've not used/heard a BBE but if it makes/helps make "your" tone hey use one. I'm a bit bemused though coz when I had a MP1 it was F%$K**g awsome (really simple, guit > MP1 > mixer L/R, aux 1/2 Quadverb > rtrn > mixer, aux 3 to IPS33 > rtrn mixer) > B200s > 2 x ADA slant split stacks (so all in stereo). Never had an issue with bottom end/ thinness etc. Now I run much the same though with MP2 mmmm, I've slotted in a midiverb 4 in the MP2 loop. hardly ever turn it on though...
And I'm a stickler for - use as little sound polluters as possible (unfortunately, every additional device pollutes the sound/and adds noise). But if it sounds good use it. Your ears are the judge...
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Maybe there is something wrong with my unit then... because even with the bass near maxed out on the MP-1 its still a very thin sounding unit, and becomes rather muddy.
I'll record a clip or two with the BBE on and the BBE off in order to illustrate the difference in tone.
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Hi Jarrod, if you pull it back to basics how does it sound ? (guit > MP1 > amp > cab(s) you running in stereo yet ?? lol). I found recently working with MikeB and my old MP1 that we were chasing some more bottom end a gig levels. Turned out that when we changed the rig patching to use the Art Spilt mix and "mix" in his TC Gmaj and not chain through it, the bass improved quite a bit (as did the whole dynamic).
Thin and muddy sound like tubes going but, IIRC, you re-tubed it not long ago ?
Thin and muddy can also be gain structure issues, everything you chain through has an effect, even on bypass/off.
There are some other posts regarding changing the MP1 eq centre frequencies with trim pots, seems like turning the bass one as low as you can would suit what you are chasing ?
To me, thin MP1 with nothing else but amp/cabs means somethings wrong. Again I'm not saying yey or nay to BBE, if the BBE is any good, it should sound even better with the MP1 cooking.
Cheers R
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I remember using it at band practice, and engaging the BBE would instantly cause my tone to disappear in the mix.
....never again
haha the very reason I sold my 885. Personally I feel it destroys your tone more than anything. :dunno:
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Hi Jarrod, if you pull it back to basics how does it sound ? (guit > MP1 > amp > cab(s) you running in stereo yet ?? lol). I found recently working with MikeB and my old MP1 that we were chasing some more bottom end a gig levels. Turned out that when we changed the rig patching to use the Art Spilt mix and "mix" in his TC Gmaj and not chain through it, the bass improved quite a bit (as did the whole dynamic).
Thin and muddy sound like tubes going but, IIRC, you re-tubed it not long ago ?
Thin and muddy can also be gain structure issues, everything you chain through has an effect, even on bypass/off.
There are some other posts regarding changing the MP1 eq centre frequencies with trim pots, seems like turning the bass one as low as you can would suit what you are chasing ?
To me, thin MP1 with nothing else but amp/cabs means somethings wrong. Again I'm not saying yey or nay to BBE, if the BBE is any good, it should sound even better with the MP1 cooking.
Cheers R
Even with everything running direct the mp-1 doesn't sound all too great... and yes, I retubed it not too long ago with some new JJ short plates.
The Trimpots only adjust the od1 and od2 input levels dont they? And the other trim pots you dont touch unless you have an oscilloscope yes? The bass center trimpot is only found in the mesa mod/3.666 mod/ whatever those other mods are hahah... i think at least...