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[j4q0]

Hi all,

I'm struggling with trying to clean up the gain of my 3TM as I would normally do with a head but it just won't clean up nicely. I've swapped tubes and tried different OD1 vs OD2 settings and compared the patches and I still have been unsuccessful with this.
I understand the idea of having programmable patches but it is always still useful and nicer to the feel when you can alter your tone and gain with the guitar volume.

After trying out a 5150 mkIII and after a couple of emails from MJMP I now know that this happens perhaps because both the 5150 and the 3TM are too much of a high gain preamp to be able to do this.
However I'm able to clean up the gain of my Mesa Quad, though I have to max all the gain structure to get close to the 3TM gain 

Is this an inherent problem of all high gain preamps/heads or is it that perhaps my 3TM is not working properly?
My MP1 Classic allows me to do this but MJMP points out that indeed the Classic does not have the same amount of gain as the original MP1, thus it will allow this kind of control.

I'd like to know if any of you can share some experiences about using the guitar volume to clean up your gain of your MP1 in a satisfactory way. Perhaps the mod4 MKII is better for this purpose?

As always thanks for your comments and suggestions.

[rnolan]

Hey j4q0, controlling high gain pre-amp/heads is a bit of an art, I learnt it when I was young and learning to play, back then (early 70s) there were no master volume controls and if you wanted decent distorsion you had to crank the amp (and I really annoyed my neighbours) and the guitar volume knob played it's part (usually full up or off to stop it squealing between songs).  Some people are good at riding the volume knob, I'm not one of them and loved it when I got a MP1 and could program it all.  But when you have SO much gain as with the 3TM (6 stages of gain), it's going to be on the edge allot of the time, I think vol knob riding is more suited to less gainy amps (fender twins etc).  To reduce the gain you can use the lower gain 12AY7s or 12AT7s (kind of defeating the purpose of the 3TM though), they should work but normally you would change the circuit a bit to suit them.  MJMP will know better than me how this would be done or if it would be necessary.
An alternative would be to get a MP2 which has 10 different voices at different gain levels, I've reduced the gain I use quite a bit in recent times and my current rhythm sound (doubles as a cleaner lead sound) is quite a bit less gain than I used to use, I use the MXC with a controller pedal and assign the pedal to control the MP2 master volume but could assign it to be OD1 or OD2 etc.  Voice 5 in the MP2 is warm vintage and only uses one drive (OD) and is probably (may be) what your after (http://adadepot.com/index.php?topic=126.0).

[j4q0]

Hi Rnolan, Thanks very much to take the time and reply.

As I mentioned I'm used to ride my guitar's volume quite extensively. I've played many other amps several times (Mesa Recto, 5150, Marshall MF, JCM900, JCM2000, jmp1, soldano, krank etc you get the idea) and I've always been able to manage my gain this way as I'm not really a pedal guy. Although I have to say that I have the most experience with the Marshalls and the 5150.

My first decent amp was an MP1 classic so I naturally assumed the 3TM would allow me to ride the guitar volume the same way but now I'm realizing that it's not quite the case as the classic indeed has less gain.
What I've always liked is having a high gain amp that you can unleash with your guitar, no need for other channels or pedals unless is strictly necessary. Again I now reckon that when I did this with my Classic it never had the same amount of gain as I have now with the 3TM.
To be honest it's been such a long time since I played the original 5150 that I don't really remember how much gain it had. What I do remember is that I always used the gain as little as possible. Even now with the 5150mkIII my gain is only on 3 at max, and in the 3TM I don't go past OD1@4.0 and OD2@7.0 as I prefer clarity and that is plenty of gain and minimal noise (even less than the 5150 )

Perhaps I'll try to change the tubes and see what feel the unit gives me. Perhaps what I really want is a less gainy amp with a boost before it so I can get enough high gain for the crazy metal things.
I've always been curious about the MP2 though, how would you compare it to the 3TM in terms of feel and sound? NOt really fair to compare the unit as a whole since the MP2 has so much more features, but using "basic" clean/crunch/high gain tones serves as a good barometer to compare 2 different units.

[rnolan]

Happy to help  While you can ride the vol knob with ADA preamps, they are more designed to have each patch set where you want them and then use the midi pedal to change between them.  eg I set up a bank of 10 sounds, a couple of clean sounds, a couple of rhythm sounds and some lead sounds with the different master volumes and associated effects (delays, flange, wah etc).  Part of learning a new song with the band was adjusting the master vols and practicing the patch changes (some are quite tight/quick).  Also I can use the same sounds with bigger master vol changes when there is another guitar to get over as you need a bigger vol change than when there's just 1 guitar.  This is how I set up my MP1 when I had it and also my MP2 when I played in a covers band for many years.  Now with my MP2 I pretty much just use the 3 patches I posted (clean, rhythm, lead) and control the master with the controller pedal.  This setup means I'm constantly adjusting the volume with the pedal (much like vol knob riding) but doesn't change the OD gain/distortion.  Having just acquired another guitarist (who has my original MP1 rig), I may have to go back to setting up more patches.  I've not used a MP1 with 3TM so can't compare directly.  The MP2 sounds different to the MP1 (some like it better, some don't).  I like the MP2 but sometime miss the MP1s sound.  I very much like all the additional features in the MP2 (eg continuous midi control, more ergonomic MXC pedal, 10 voices, wah, tremelo, noise gate, cab emulated outs, room adjust knob, stereo parallel effects loop).  IMHO, if you don't want the super high gain of 3TM etc, then the MP2 is a better choice.  I do vol knob roll with it sometimes if I need to back the gain off but I never practiced it enough to get good at it, I've seen some players who are very adept at knob rolling, depends a bit on the guitar also ie where the vol nob is located.  When you turn the guitar down there is less signal so more noise (comparatively) so you aren't reducing the "available" gain just how much signal is being processed (gained), the amount of noise is still the same and will now be louder compared to the signal than guitar on full volume.  With super high gain circuits, you can end up with way to much noise/squeals etc.  You'll notice that one of my MP2 patches (my old rhythm sound) needs the NR (noise gate) as it goes crazy/noisy between songs unless you have everything muted and even then it was a bit hard to control without the gate.  From what you've said, I'd highly reccommend you swap the 3TM for a MP2 with the MXC pedal pack.

[j4q0]

Thanks for the suggestion.

I really like the tone of the 3TM to be honest, the only thing I'd like to have is more control over the gain to be able to clean up the signal with my guitar. Just like you I like my setup simple: rhythm, lead and clean. I used to have my clean from the rhythm rolled back.
One thing I don't understand is when you say you'd end up with more noise than tone while riding your guitar's volume, I actually had the exact opposite experience whenever I used to do this, I guess that goes to show YMMV

The quest for tone never ends. Just out of curiosity i might end up looking for an MP2, any advice on pricing? Do these run at about the same price of MP1?

[rnolan]

Not sure on pricing, but I recon an MP2 is  a good idea for what you want...... I have to say I'm happy with the transition. I'd love to add a MP1to my rig BUT I love the MP2  it sings for me.....

[rickeb1]

It's funny, I was just going to post a similar topic, and found this thread!  I bring it up because I went to a sort of semi-private open jam this past weekend where the guitar amp was supplied and everyone just brought their guitar.  The amp was a Fender Stage 1600, which I was unfamiliar with.  It actually got some really good high-gain tones, and I was kind of surprised to learn later that it is a SS amp.  But what I really liked was how well the heavy overdrive tone cleaned up by rolling down the guitar volume pot.  It was really nice, and it made me kind of disappointed with the 3TM that I'm not able to do that. 

I totally agree with the statement, "I really like the tone of the 3TM to be honest, the only thing I'd like to have is more control over the gain to be able to clean up the signal with my guitar."  I guess it's a tradeoff we have to live with.

~ Rick