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[Dna^Yay]

Hey everyone

So i am trying to figure out whether i should give up on the MP1 fx loop. Currently i run my ISP Decimator G string 2 through the loop, though i have found that the loop itself can generate more noise than if i was not using the loop at all. At first i thought this was the pedal, so i tried it with other pedals and the same problem was there. I experimented with a high gain patch with nothing in the loop, then once i plugged a cable into the SEND output not connected to anything, the noise was terrible so i figured out that the loop just sucks (or my MP1 Loop is buggered). I decided to select a S.S voicing and mess around with the volume as i have found that if it is too low or too high there is tone sucking and horrible clipping/buzzing. Currently i have it set about 10 oclock.

Signal chain so far;

Guitar--Turbo Tuner--ProToneDeadHorse-- ISP Decimator-- ADAMP1--(FX LOOP Send-- Decimator-- Return) MP1 Output-- ENGL Power Amp-- (ENGL FX Send--Presonus EQ3B--ENGL Return)-- Cab

I experimented with the basic guidelines from ISP suggesting the guitar goes straight to the decimator for the best tracking and then other pedals to follow afterwards. For some reason though, if my DeadHorse overdrive comes after the Decimator i get uncontrollable screaming from my amp even with the noise gate on, so it has to be before the Decimator .I have a Digitech Whammy and a Wah pedal i want to add to my chain and i am debating whether they should go right after my tuner for better tracking, or in the effects loop (so my patches can turn on/ off multiple pedals, as i am not that good at tap dancing).

I have looked extensively on stinkfoot.se about pedal order and how to powering everything. I would like to get a power brick like the Cioks DC10, but it seems powering pedals that are in front of the amp and within the loop can cause noise issues, which means my Decimator will have to be run off a battery to minimise noise and remain isolated from other pedals.

Now i do have the option of using all of my pedals through the FX loop in the ENGL, but there is no global switch to turn the loop on/off and the Decimator works better going through the MP1.

So yeah i am really confused about all of this as i have to figure out the overall order of pedals and whether i have to have 2 pedals boards, one out on stage and one on the amp going through the MP1 Fx loop(and/or ENGL Loop).

I know the MP1 loop is in serial, but am i missing something or not setting it up correctly? Does the loop work well with pedals or is it best suited to line in/out rack units?

 

[DesmoBob]

Well this may or may not help, but it wouldn't hurt to try. Move the Decimator from the loop to the output of the MP-1. According to the ISP website, it says you can connect it in the loop OR after high gain pedals or preamp.

I have a ProRackG, but the principle should be the same. My chain is:
Guitar > [Various pedals] > Decimator Ch 1 > MP1 > TC1128 EQ > Decimator Ch2 > Intellifex > power amp
The "amp" portion of the decimator is after my MP-1, and it's quiet. I don't even engage the Hush in the Intellifex. My power amp itself is noisy, but that is a separate issue.

I have a booster pedal (which is off most of the time) in the loop of the MP1. The loop knob is all the way anti clockwise. But for the sake of this experiment, that should be irrelevant because we're just seeing what will happen if you bypass the loop altogether.

BTW, wah usually sounds best before the amp, near the beginning of your chain. Right after the tuner is fine. Not sure about whammy, I've never used one of those. But if it's a combo whammy/wah, then for the sake of the wah, put it after the tuner.

[DesmoBob]

I re-read your post, haha sorry I didn't exactly answer your question. It's more of a workaround.

BTW, yes, the DeadHorse should go before the Decimator.

[rnolan]

Hey Dna^Yay, there are mixed feelings about the MP1 loop here. Some like it and it works well for them, others don't. Back when I had a MP1 I never had a need to use it as I used a small mixer to run multiple parallel loops of midi controlled rack gear (Quadverb and IPS33 smart shift). Of note is the MP1 send return knob is a dual ganged pot so as you increase the send it reduces the return and visa versa. You can use either line level or inst level devices in the loop and adjust the send/return accordingly (but not mix the 2 together or you'll get major gain mismatches). The loop shouldn't add or take away gain/volume (I spose except if you are using it for noise reduction as it will cut the signal under the threshold (i.e. take away all gain)).
From what you say about the noise increase by just plugging something into the loop could indicate there is something not quite right.
A couple of checks:
Try loop turned off (in patch) and plug lead out of send to nothing (noisy ?)
Try same with something on the end of send cable  (e.g. ENGL input) (any change ?)
Also try both of above with loop turned on (any difference ??)
IIRC (and there are post elsewhere here about this), tuning the loop on/off turns the return on/off, the send is always available. The noise problem may be a faulty send jack (give it a good clean with decent contact cleaner as a first thing to try).

As DB says, wah is best up front (there's a topic about it here also and consensus was up front is best). Even in the MP2 with its built in wah it's just after the input and before any gain stages. Also the whammy is a pitch shift and will track better with clean undistorted direct guitar signal.
Also Decimator the way DB suggests (one channel pre MP1 and 1 channel after) is what others here have had good results with (e.g. IIRC MJMP does it like that with his 3TM to keep it quiet). Unfortunately you loose the stereo of the MP1 this way so if you can get the loop working cleanly, I'd try Decimator Ch 2 in the loop  (and Ch1 before MP1) and keep the stereo out as the MP1/2 sound much much better in stereo (of course that's if you ENGL and cabs are set up to run stereo ?).

[Dna^Yay]

Hey guys

Thanks for the speedy responses!

Rnolan, my pedal is only mono (Decimator G String 2) so i would lose out on the Stereo functionality of my MP1, which as we have discussed thoroughly before. I have just set up my MP1 to run in stereo and just need to switch it on and see what it sounds like.
Ok i am confused, my loop is off when i have OUT selected, when i select IN, that then engages the loop. So should i ignore the MP1 outputs and just use the Send to send a signal into my ENGL input? So with the loop engaged i would hear the MP1, and disengaged the MP1 would not be going anywhere?

DB, I will give that experiment a try and see what the results are, but as i said above i lose out on the MP1 being stereo. Im interested though that you can have your send knob all the way anti clockwise, if i do that to mine the signal becomes quieter and dirty, as if i was running a fuzz box through my loop. At first i though i had the compression set too high on the S.S channel but it was down to the volume of the loop.

[rnolan]

Hey Dna^Yay, sorry to confuse you  and not to remember the previous discussion, sorry  . The loop is definitely the best place for it to reduce noise after the gain stage and keep stereo  , but seems there are issues in the loop, the send shouldn't be adding additional noise.  So I just checked the schematics, at the top left of the eq section schematic (first one in list http://adadepot.com/index.php?topic=148.30) you can see the FX send return circuit (need to zoom in a bit), from my reading U16 selects the return feed rather than the send (also seems to be used to enable/disable the chorus ??), so this is where the signal path is broken to form a serial loop which is activated by FX loop "in" on a patch thus FX loop in = get signal from return jack and I suspect the diodes D24, 25, 26 and 27 are used to make the signal still work when the patch has FX loop in but nothing plugged into the return ? But hey this is MJMP and others territory.
So if IIRC and my reading is correct (and happy to be set strait if I've got it wrong BTW) the send should always work regardless, so if you ignore the main outs and plug the send into one ch of ENGL (set level full clockwise, should be max out), it should work (albeit without anything that comes after the loop e.g. chorus) but this is just for trouble shooting (although El may want to use the concept in a patching scenario ?). So if this adds noise compared to main outs no loop, then somethings not right in the send (which may just be the jack or the level pot (my guess is the pot needs a good spray/clean)).
Does turning the loop on or off with nothing plugged in to either send or return add or take away noise ?
If you turn the FX knob full anti clockwise, this should turn send to minimum and return to maximum, and full clockwise should be send to maximum, return to minimum. These levels are affected however by the input/output levels on the unit in the loop which you need to adjust to maintain unity gain (in = out level wise). I'm thinking your FX loop jacks and level pot all need a good contact clean (as a starting point), it may just be the FX level pot ? Anyway cleaning them can't hurt.

[Axemane]

I run my Decimator last in line on my pedalboard and it works great. Also the effects loop works fine. Of course it would sound better with nothing in the loop but it's not bad at all.  I've heard better and I've heard worse.

My intention was to not use the loop and just use the GMajor2 for all effects but I haven't been able to get it dialed in to my liking that way. I am used to the pedal board anyway.

[rnolan]

Well the loop can be useful, really depends what you want to do i.e. it's a great place to put a ADA GCS3 cab sim for stereo recording. The experiments MikeB and I've done with GMaj are quite conclusive that the GMaj sounds much better if you use some method of mixing it in (e.g. parallel loop) and not chain through it (if that's what you do), though you loose some nice CC benefits this way (like master volume control  ). Mike has dialed up all his GMaj effects (IIRC) so may be able to give you some ideas about they way he approached it (may help ?). These days I go very simple, hint of shortish stereo delay and some (again a little) reverb and let my fingers do the work.

Strange, after years of high(er) quality rack FX, I find myself (remotely) attracted to the simplicity of a pedal(s) again.

[Axemane]

I had been running the GMajor2 in between the MP-1's A B out's to the GMajors 2 inputs.And from there into both sides of the TS100s keeping everything stereo. It sounds fine, I just haven't spent enough time to program it. Pedals are really so much easier, but the stereo effects of the Gmaj2 sound awesome. I have it hooked up again but I only use the reverb right now.

I have rehearsal tonight so I am going to play with it and the 3TM a bit .

[MikeB]

The easiest way to program the g-major 2 is with the editor software that you can download from the tc electronic website. You will need a usb-midi interface (don't use a cheap one).  What midi controller are you using?

[Axemane]

The easiest way to program the g-major 2 is with the editor software that you can download from the tc electronic website. You will need a usb-midi interface (don't use a cheap one).  What midi controller are you using?

I have a Presonus Audiobox that I use with EZ Drummer and Reaper.

I didn't know about the software , I bought it second hand. I'll have to look into that, thanks !