ADA Depot - A Forum To Support Users of ADA Amplification Gear

Let's Get Technical => All PREAMP Tech Tips & Support => Topic started by: DannyjoeCarter on December 30, 2016, 02:47:59 AM

Title: MP-1 Gain section
Post by: DannyjoeCarter on December 30, 2016, 02:47:59 AM
OK Folks another techie question;
 How many stages of gain are in the MP-1 and how much voltage is hitting the two tubes?

I'm figuring the MP-1 is not like the Marshall JMP1 where I believe it's solid state/diodes and gets warmed up a little bit somewhere along the line with a 12AX7? I think the Rocktron Voodoo Valve did the same thing - SS then gets a little tone from a 12AX7 -
Title: Re: MP-1 Gain section
Post by: Harley Hexxe on December 30, 2016, 03:07:39 AM
Hi DJC,

   No, the MP-1 is definitely not like the JMP1.  I think there are two gain stages, but MJMP would be the one to answer that question definitively.
Title: Re: MP-1 Gain section
Post by: DannyjoeCarter on December 30, 2016, 10:41:10 AM
OK thank you Harley, I will wait for MJMP to jump in on this one  :)
Title: Re: MP-1 Gain section
Post by: MarshallJMP on December 30, 2016, 12:23:18 PM
Since each 12ax7 has 2 sections there are 4 gain stages in the MP-1.Same goes for the MP-1 classic and MP-2 (and even the MB-1).

And yes you are right about the JMP-1, solid state with a tube for warmup. One tube for the clean section and one for the distortion section.So no real tube overdrive sounds like in the MP-1.
Title: Re: MP-1 Gain section
Post by: Harley Hexxe on December 30, 2016, 12:28:44 PM
Since each 12ax7 has 2 sections there are 4 gain stages in the MP-1.Same goes for the MP-1 classic and MP-2 (and even the MB-1).

And yes you are right about the JMP-1, solid state with a tube for warmup. One tube for the clean section and one for the distortion section.So no real tube overdrive sounds like in the MP-1.

   Well that solves the mystery for me too! Thank MJMP :bow:
Title: Re: MP-1 Gain section
Post by: DannyjoeCarter on December 30, 2016, 01:16:48 PM
OK good to know MarshallJMP!
 You can actually feel it when you play the MP-1 because there is a give and a breathe to it. I have been playing my best friend's 1.38 for the last two weeks until mine arrive and I remembered the way the MP-1 responded to your picking attack the same way a regular tube amps feels.
 The Rocktron Chameleon and the Marshall JMP1 has a very stiff solid state feel which, can sound good at times but when you crank it really loud is when you really hear and feel that something is missing - like the tubes! LOL!

 Still a little curious how much voltage flows through those two tubes -
Title: Re: MP-1 Gain section
Post by: MarshallJMP on December 30, 2016, 02:11:48 PM
The standard high voltage is 190V, with an MDRT you can bump it up to 240V.
Title: Re: MP-1 Gain section
Post by: DannyjoeCarter on December 31, 2016, 02:04:56 AM
The standard high voltage is 190V, with an MDRT you can bump it up to 240V.
Wow that's pretty hot - I like that!! I'm going to for through the forum and find a little more about the MDRT and who on here can do it and how much!
 Great info Marshall JMP  :thumb-up:
                       
Title: Re: MP-1 Gain section
Post by: rnolan on December 31, 2016, 04:28:19 AM
Hey DjC, MJMP gets the MDRTs made, prices are on his site (http://www.marshalljmpmodshop.net/miscellaneous_parts_and_replacement_tubes.htm).  It's not a hard mod with minimal soldering, but easy job for any tech.  And as I posted before, really opens up the MP1.
Title: Re: MP-1 Gain section
Post by: Harley Hexxe on December 31, 2016, 04:38:11 AM
Hey DjC, MJMP gets the MDRTs made, prices are on his site (http://www.marshalljmpmodshop.net/miscellaneous_parts_and_replacement_tubes.htm).  It's not a hard mod with minimal soldering, but easy job for any tech.  And as I posted before, really opens up the MP1.

  That's the popular concensus, but to my ears, it seems to alter the core tone of the MP-1. For better or for worse is subjective to your personal taste, and what you are looking for out of your amp. That's why I haven't jumped on that bandwagon. I'm not sure I would like the change.
Title: Re: MP-1 Gain section
Post by: rnolan on December 31, 2016, 04:51:58 AM
Hey Harley, again very salient, and I hear what you mean.  I think you would like the change but ideally you kind of need one of each.  I was gobsmacked after MikeB made the change to his MP-1, the MDRT really opens up the MP-1, but the MP-1 stock has a creamy (almost boxy) sound (kind of warm ??).  With MDRT it's allot more articulate.
Title: Re: MP-1 Gain section
Post by: Harley Hexxe on December 31, 2016, 04:59:50 AM
Hey Harley, again very salient, and I hear what you mean.  I think you would like the change but ideally you kind of need one of each.  I was gobsmacked after MikeB made the change to his MP-1, the MDRT really opens up the MP-1, but the MP-1 stock has a creamy (almost boxy) sound (kind of warm ??).  With MDRT it's allot more articulate.

   So it's not just me who noticed it. That's the thing I like about the original MP-1 it has a warm low end to it. So you lose some of that warmth with the MDRT?
Title: Re: MP-1 Gain section
Post by: rnolan on December 31, 2016, 05:25:56 AM
Hey Harley, no you are correct, the sound changes, is it for the better or worse (subjective). Hey @MikeB you could chime in here.
I think one of my first comments to Mike when I heard it was wow that's going toward the MP2 and what it can do  >:D .

So yeah you loose some of the warmth (but better to say boxyness) of stock.
Title: Re: MP-1 Gain section
Post by: Harley Hexxe on December 31, 2016, 05:38:02 AM
Okay, I don't want to lose that bottom end. Between the MP-1 and the 3TM, I can cover just about anything the MP-2 can give me but with the MP-1 character. There is a difference there.

Of course, that doesn't mean I'll be letting go of my MP-2's  :lol: I have too much invested in the learning curve of those now.
Title: Re: MP-1 Gain section
Post by: rnolan on December 31, 2016, 05:47:08 AM
I cant speak for the 3TM, maybe in the future  >:D ?? But the advantages of the MDRT in stock MP-1 are definitely worth it, it's like lifting off a vale seriously  :thumb-up: .  That said however, there is something in the stock MP-1 sound that you loose (for me it's kind of a boxy/compressed/mud (but nice warm mud)  :dunno: ) so one of each makes sense. 
Title: Re: MP-1 Gain section
Post by: Harley Hexxe on December 31, 2016, 05:53:19 AM
I guess that means I'll have to get a MP=1 to modify with the MDRT and see how I feel about it then. I suppose I could always sell it if I didn't like it.
Title: Re: MP-1 Gain section
Post by: rnolan on December 31, 2016, 06:01:15 AM
If you put a MDRT into an MP-1, you definitely won't regret it, trust me, it's chalk and cheese (I was gob smacked how much better it sounded, coz it was already awesome).
Title: Re: MP-1 Gain section
Post by: Harley Hexxe on December 31, 2016, 06:18:25 AM
Mmmmm, but if it's all high end, then it can become shrill. I'm not looking for that
Title: Re: MP-1 Gain section
Post by: rnolan on December 31, 2016, 07:00:37 AM
It's not shrill at all, it just becomes more open and responsive, it doesn't add more tops, just opens up the sound (like an MP2 does). I strongly suspect you'll like it. Quite frankly, I was blown away (and takes a bit to do that).
Title: Re: MP-1 Gain section
Post by: Harley Hexxe on December 31, 2016, 07:54:52 AM
Okay, That's a consideration.

   Keep in mind, my main guitars are stock Strats which are pretty bright to begin with, so keeping the bottom end intact is an important part of the sound.
   While I like what I'm getting with the MP-2, not all of it's sounds are useful to me, and it definitely has it's own character.
Title: Re: MP-1 Gain section
Post by: DannyjoeCarter on December 31, 2016, 02:48:10 PM
Wow thank you all for sharing your views, very insightful!
 Makes me think to maybe hold off on this kind of mod just yet. But this where an A/B comparison would really come into play.
For me I will try and find one with the MDRT already in it and do a side by side to really hear and feel it for myself.  ;)
 
Title: Re: MP-1 Gain section
Post by: MarshallJMP on December 31, 2016, 03:54:24 PM
Actually the MDRT gives more bottom end and not so much high end. Altough the low end is harder to hear due to the mic used.

Listen to this clip  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xRSuATPcsWs
Title: Re: MP-1 Gain section
Post by: Harley Hexxe on December 31, 2016, 07:35:50 PM
Hey MJMP,

   Those are 3TM modded MP-1's. It's all distortion so it's harder to tell. What would really speak volumes about the difference would be a comparison between a stock MP-1 and a MDRT mod on clean settings
Title: Re: MP-1 Gain section
Post by: rnolan on December 31, 2016, 08:47:50 PM
Hey Harley, Mike did pre and post examples when he did his MDRT upgrade (http://adadepot.com/index.php?topic=1524.msg15163#msg15163).  His is a stock v1 MP-1 with just the standard mods (rear jack, noise mod, v2.01 EPROM, stock (new) tube board).
Title: Re: MP-1 Gain section
Post by: Harley Hexxe on December 31, 2016, 09:12:39 PM
Hey Richard,
   Okay, I can hear what you're saying now. It opened up the upper midrange of the guitar a lot more which I can hear on the clean tracks. The bass is still there but gets buried a bit more by the mid frequencies. I would cut back on the Presence and Mids to balance that out.
   On the dirty and distortion tracks, I hear a distinct change. The overdrive has changed to more of a fuzz-like tone, a lot of sizzle there. I also notice there is a lot more white noise as you add more distortion. You definitely need the noise gate after that mod.
Title: Re: MP-1 Gain section
Post by: DannyjoeCarter on December 31, 2016, 11:38:16 PM
Actually the MDRT gives more bottom end and not so much high end. Altough the low end is harder to hear due to the mic used.

Listen to this clip  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xRSuATPcsWs

 Well MarshallJMP it really does make a difference, no doubt about it. Just curious though what power amp and speakers are you using in this video if I may ask?  :)
Title: Re: MP-1 Gain section
Post by: rnolan on January 01, 2017, 02:47:04 AM
Hey Harley, what Mike found (and I think he said in the thread) was he had to re-do his patches a bit to accommodate the changes. Although so far he hasn't needed a gate.
Title: Re: MP-1 Gain section
Post by: Harley Hexxe on January 01, 2017, 03:34:39 AM
Hey Richard,

    On the last couple of samples with the high gain settings, you can hear a lot of noise in the background. I'm sure Mike is using humbucker equipped guitars for it. If I plugged in a stock Stratocaster, that would be even worse.
Title: Re: MP-1 Gain section
Post by: rnolan on January 01, 2017, 04:26:47 AM
Hey Harley, ahh single coils, life on the edge, but so much more rewarding  >:D .  Mike did the reamp thing (I think) with that recording, I don't think the noise is indicative (more a product of the process and what he had available to do it), he's using his LP Classic *the Mistress).  My assessment though is based on I hear it at my place through one of my split stacks most Friday nights. I don't have many guits with SC PUs but next chance I get I'll try one through his rig and report  :thumb-up:
Title: Re: MP-1 Gain section
Post by: Harley Hexxe on January 01, 2017, 07:14:18 AM
Hey Richard,

     They are quite buzzy with high gain settings, and that is the reason I bought the two dbx 463's I have. The noise would be unacceptable in a live situation. Fortunately, the Classic and MP-2 have the gate built in, but with the MP-1 and 3TM, there's no other way for me.
Title: Re: MP-1 Gain section
Post by: MikeB on January 01, 2017, 04:41:53 PM
Just to clarify...
When I was recording the pre and post mdrt clips, I wanted to try to be scientific about the whole thing so I recorded the direct guitar signal with my sony mini-disk recorder and then played that back into the input of the mp1.  This was the source of that noise (was quite surprised how much it introduced).  I'm sure the levels and impedance and whatever were all wrong, plus there may have been unshielded portions of the setup as I had all kinds of adapters in the line.  As soon as I went back to guitar straight into mp1 the noise was gone.  Having said that, on my highest gain patch, I do use the gate on my g-major 2.

In hindsight, I should have set up some custom patches with flat eq.  Pre mdrt I had my treble and presence levels pretty high.  Even the bass was actually a lot higher pre-mdrt than I have it now post mdrt.  Post mdrt my eq is quite flat.  It was like having a new amp and I just went back and started from scratch.

Also, the recording setup that I was using is pretty cheap and nasty.  I also had to bring down the recording level on the distorted post mdrt track significantly as it went off the scale.  There is a huge increase in output.

The transformer swap is pretty straight forward and completely reversible, so I would recommend just giving it a go.
Title: Re: MP-1 Gain section
Post by: Harley Hexxe on January 01, 2017, 05:54:08 PM
Hey MikeB,

    Thank you for clarifying that, I did read in your post that it wasn't the ideal recording set up, but I didn't know it was causing that much noise.
    So, in your opinion, how do you think this would sound with a single coil guitar?
Title: Re: MP-1 Gain section
Post by: MarshallJMP on January 02, 2017, 09:45:44 AM

 Well MarshallJMP it really does make a difference, no doubt about it. Just curious though what power amp and speakers are you using in this video if I may ask?  :)

Well I didn't do this, someone posted it on YouTube, he was an old member of the depot. So I can't tell you what he used.
Title: Re: MP-1 Gain section
Post by: DannyjoeCarter on January 02, 2017, 01:40:27 PM
OK just curious MarshallJMP, just gather info and listening to many different clips of people's MP-1 sounds for when my rig gets here this week.  :)
Title: Re: MP-1 Gain section
Post by: MarshallJMP on January 02, 2017, 01:58:34 PM
Be careful  ADA's can be very addictive  :D
Title: Re: MP-1 Gain section
Post by: rnolan on January 02, 2017, 07:25:12 PM
And they breed LoL, and invite their cousins around  :headbanger:
Title: Re: MP-1 Gain section
Post by: DannyjoeCarter on January 02, 2017, 11:56:35 PM
Be careful  ADA's can be very addictive  :D
And they breed LoL, and invite their cousins around  :headbanger:

 You both got that right!! I have bought 2 already in the last week and I'm anxiously awaiting their arrival!! Plus I have a line on two more "in case" something is not quite right! It amazes the adjectives people use when selling a 25 year old piece of gear - "Great condition for a piece of gear this old" and it's hammered or "Showroom condition" and it has visible rust. However there is one for sale now on Reverb that the guy only wants like $279.00 ans the faceplate is very clean but it's all rusted - I may snag that one for parts!!  :D