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Author Topic: Stereo Live Rig setup  (Read 20222 times)

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Kim

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Re: Stereo Live Rig setup
« Reply #30 on: Time Format »

Hey Kim,any reason you call them Frick and Frack?
Because Heckle and Jeckle didn't quite fit the bill?

No reason other than that I thought it would be funny.   :)
I actually did come up with Heckle and Jeckle, amongst a bunch of others too....but kept coming back to Frick and Frack.
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MarshallJMP

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Re: Stereo Live Rig setup
« Reply #31 on: Time Format »

Amazing  :lol:
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rabidgerry

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Re: Stereo Live Rig setup
« Reply #32 on: Time Format »

I arranged our gear last saturday into this formation (see pic)  I will have to see how this will sound.  I took the photo from the position of the drums.
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"whadda ya want? we want Heavy Metal"

Guitars:1986 Westone Dimension IV, 1989 Korean Squier Fat Strat Silver Series, 1998 Korean Squier Fat Strat, MIM Fender Fat Strat - FR, Squier Stagemaster Deluxe - Thru Neck x 2, Squier Stagemaster 22 Fret - 1st Gen, 1999 Squier Showmaster - Anniversary Edition, Squier Showmaster, Tokai FV40 Flying V

Effects:  Ada Mp1, Peavey Rockmaster, Boss GX700 Boss SX700 * Amps:   Rocktron Velocity 300 - Koch ATR4502 - Peavey Classic 50/50
Cabs: 4 x Bugera 2 x 12"
Midi Controller: Behringer FCB1010

rnolan

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Re: Stereo Live Rig setup
« Reply #33 on: Time Format »

Hey RG, Should sound great from where you took the shot  >:D
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rabidgerry

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Re: Stereo Live Rig setup
« Reply #34 on: Time Format »

Richard, do you think standing beside the dreaded drummer and all his cymbals then would be a good spot for me and the bassist to stand?

I know before this has even been tested that he's going to say he cannot hear himself!

If that's the case should he move into the bass amp a bit and let me stand close to the drums?

Also he is the lead vocalist, any tips are greatly appreciated.  Bound to be better than before.  It was very separated before so we could all hear but not as a mix as such.  You could move around the room and only hear vocals, or bass or guitar.

Best sound in a room I ever had was when we played in the garage way back like 15years ago.  I think it's because we were all standing very close.
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"whadda ya want? we want Heavy Metal"

Guitars:1986 Westone Dimension IV, 1989 Korean Squier Fat Strat Silver Series, 1998 Korean Squier Fat Strat, MIM Fender Fat Strat - FR, Squier Stagemaster Deluxe - Thru Neck x 2, Squier Stagemaster 22 Fret - 1st Gen, 1999 Squier Showmaster - Anniversary Edition, Squier Showmaster, Tokai FV40 Flying V

Effects:  Ada Mp1, Peavey Rockmaster, Boss GX700 Boss SX700 * Amps:   Rocktron Velocity 300 - Koch ATR4502 - Peavey Classic 50/50
Cabs: 4 x Bugera 2 x 12"
Midi Controller: Behringer FCB1010

rnolan

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Re: Stereo Live Rig setup
« Reply #35 on: Time Format »

Hey RG, I was basing it on where the speakers (yours and the bass) would open up nicely, though I take you poit re the cymbals, those things are so loud.
2 quick thoughts where to stand (bit hard to tell without being there..), if you put the vocal (PA) boxes on either side of the bass rig and face them (and your rigs), if there's room ??, this might work better with your cabs back a bit in line(ish) with the bass rig (kind of slightly curved wall of cabs). Or the opposite, put the PA boxes either side/behind the drums and face the kit with your rigs behind you (I'm assuming the PA is powered boxes on stands ?). As you say, it's important to get a good mix as everyone will play better and enjoy it more.
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Harley Hexxe

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Re: Stereo Live Rig setup
« Reply #36 on: Time Format »

Richard,

   It's always been my experience that the farther back you move the PA cabs, the more microphonic feedback you get from your mics. The only way I was ever able to rehearse with PA cabs behind the band, was to face them away from the band, and bounce the sound off the walls. It was the vocal reflections we could hear during rehearsals.

       Harley 8)
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rnolan

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Re: Stereo Live Rig setup
« Reply #37 on: Time Format »

Hey Harley, depends on so many things, most of the rehearsals I've done in recent years I set the PA up facing back at the band, drums in the corner (ish) and we fan out either side (kind of v curve) I also make sure all the mics have their backs to the PA speakers.  I also make sure we all use 58's so no mixing and matching of different mic squeal points/freq, and I also use a dual 32 band graphic and run it in stereo.  (Carvin 15/horn active boxes on stands).  We have 2 behringer monitor wedges which I also set up, overkill  >:D ), they have one side of a DBX dual 15 band and one of the 4 x 500w carvin poweramp channels (carefully though as the 2 monitors are only 175 each, so stacks of amp headroom). And I run an EV 3 way TL (15/horn/tweeter) off the other DBX 15 band  channel, through another of the carvin channels, I pump kick snare and a mic on the small bass amp (30w rumble) through that and sit the cab under one of the PA box stands again facing back at us all., So all the PA stuff is in the opposite corner to the drums (but there's open corridor behind them).  This is in the bush though (started as a shed, now it's a house) , we don't have to worry about volume.
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rabidgerry

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Re: Stereo Live Rig setup
« Reply #38 on: Time Format »

Hi Richard, we have two of these http://www.dv247.com/pa-systems-and-live-sound/behringer-eurolive-vp2520-passive-pa-speaker--84954  powered by http://download.raffionline.de/downloads/peavery/PEAVEY%20CS%201200_oben.JPG

They are currently at Either side of the drums but not facing us, one is more pointing toward the drummer and the other pointing towards where the bassist used to stand.

I'll draw a diagram and post it up.

Interesting about placing them at the sides of the bass rig.  Might be an idea to try of the beside the drum position fails.

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"whadda ya want? we want Heavy Metal"

Guitars:1986 Westone Dimension IV, 1989 Korean Squier Fat Strat Silver Series, 1998 Korean Squier Fat Strat, MIM Fender Fat Strat - FR, Squier Stagemaster Deluxe - Thru Neck x 2, Squier Stagemaster 22 Fret - 1st Gen, 1999 Squier Showmaster - Anniversary Edition, Squier Showmaster, Tokai FV40 Flying V

Effects:  Ada Mp1, Peavey Rockmaster, Boss GX700 Boss SX700 * Amps:   Rocktron Velocity 300 - Koch ATR4502 - Peavey Classic 50/50
Cabs: 4 x Bugera 2 x 12"
Midi Controller: Behringer FCB1010

rnolan

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Re: Stereo Live Rig setup
« Reply #39 on: Time Format »

Hey RG, they should sound pretty decent  :thumb-up: .  Nice power amp also but some more power wouldn't hurt to drive those cabs (they like 500w), I'm sure it's loud enough for the room though LoL
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Dante

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Re: Stereo Live Rig setup
« Reply #40 on: Time Format »

I gotta chime in here with my experiences....especially recent ones.

Practicing in the ZZ Top band, we use the floor monitors for our PA. That works great. The drummer has his own monitor too.

1x12 cabs can be very 'beamy' - I mean, they can project in a straight line sometimes, without fanning out as much as an array of speakers. I too use 1x12 cabs and typically only hear one of them. Standing on the dance floor, much farther away, they sound wonderful and are in stereo, but you have to be in the center. A little to one side, you only hear that speaker.

Even with my speakers stacked and 'cocked' (the top speaker is rotated 45 degrees clockwise) to fan them out, the sound projects in two pronounced beams. They do cut through the mix really well, and they work great for using a mic on your cabs, but I have found them to be beamy, for lack of a better word.

Harley Hexxe

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Re: Stereo Live Rig setup
« Reply #41 on: Time Format »

   Agreed Dante,

       It's tough to get a true stereo separation in a live mix without having a ton of PA gear to broadcast it that way. Even though my rigs are in stereo, and I even place my amps or cabs,(depending on the rig I use), on either side of the stage, I don't really hear the stereo separation on the stage as well as the drummer would. What I do hear is a more enriched sound from my guitar on the stage with a stereo rig as opposed to a tighter, more confined sound that is struggling to stay in the mix. The only place to get a true stereo sound would be on recordings. On a live stage, it's more important to just get a good mix with the whole band.

    Harley 8)
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Kim

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Re: Stereo Live Rig setup
« Reply #42 on: Time Format »

I'm not so worried about "true stereo" coming out the PA as I would be about the sound guy making sure they still mic both of my cabs regardless.  Whether the PA is broadcasting mono or stereo, there's still separate signal information coming from both cabs that need to be picked up and PA'd. 
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rabidgerry

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Re: Stereo Live Rig setup
« Reply #43 on: Time Format »

Well say we're not getting true stereo, at least 80% stereo.

I know when I'm using my Harmonizer I've got one voice coming out of one side and another voice coming out of another and then the direct sound I guess coming out of both which means it stays somewhat in the middle.

I play stereo because it definitely sounds bigger and more articulate when using stereo effects.  Obviously there isn't much difference unless you have some kind of effect on, even a stereo reverb.

As for directional or beamy cabs.  Look into the speaker directivity modifier.

I have made these but not implemented yet as I'm still messing about with speaker types looking for a good match.

see link

http://blog.thegearpage.net/?page_id=424

I want to implement these to deal with my 2 x 12" speaker directivity.
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"whadda ya want? we want Heavy Metal"

Guitars:1986 Westone Dimension IV, 1989 Korean Squier Fat Strat Silver Series, 1998 Korean Squier Fat Strat, MIM Fender Fat Strat - FR, Squier Stagemaster Deluxe - Thru Neck x 2, Squier Stagemaster 22 Fret - 1st Gen, 1999 Squier Showmaster - Anniversary Edition, Squier Showmaster, Tokai FV40 Flying V

Effects:  Ada Mp1, Peavey Rockmaster, Boss GX700 Boss SX700 * Amps:   Rocktron Velocity 300 - Koch ATR4502 - Peavey Classic 50/50
Cabs: 4 x Bugera 2 x 12"
Midi Controller: Behringer FCB1010

Dante

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Re: Stereo Live Rig setup
« Reply #44 on: Time Format »

I'm not so worried about "true stereo" coming out the PA as I would be about the sound guy making sure they still mic both of my cabs regardless.  Whether the PA is broadcasting mono or stereo, there's still separate signal information coming from both cabs that need to be picked up and PA'd.

I couldn't agree more  :thumb-up:

RG: I've seen those, but never tried one.

BTW: I just sold one of my 1x12 cabs to buy a 4x12 for outdoor shows. It's a H&K, and it's light (yay!). I'll start a thread about it soon
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