ADA Depot - A Forum To Support Users of ADA Amplification Gear

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

Lets get Technical > All Things Tube All about preamp and power amp Tubes.

Pages: [1] 2   Go Down

Author Topic: Clean setting - band situation  (Read 9776 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

gb

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 191
Clean setting - band situation
« on: Time Format »

Hi guys

Can someone share with me their mp1 clean setting that works in a band situation. What i thought i had got completely washed out in band situation. Think 80s chorus clean .. i know i know... more mids.. my eq was B 4, M 2, T 2 and presence (cant remember). This was using the clean voicing and gain around half.. not enough to break up as i want that dokken dream warriors intro clean but to cut through the mix
Logged

rnolan

  • Administrator
  • Superhero Member
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5999
Re: Clean setting - band situation
« Reply #1 on: Time Format »

Hey gb, MikeB has a good MP-1 clean going (not sure what his settings are but I'm sure he'll share  :thumb-up: ) It's working well in band context with his LP Classic ("the Mistress").
Logged
Studio Rig: Stuff; Live Rig: More Stuff; Guitars: A few

gb

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 191
Re: Clean setting - band situation
« Reply #2 on: Time Format »

Hey gb, MikeB has a good MP-1 clean going (not sure what his settings are but I'm sure he'll share  :thumb-up: ) It's working well in band context with his LP Classic ("the Mistress").

Thanks mate appreciate it.

Can i ask if my sound is too 'bright'.. is this treble and presence?  ..and if soo by reducing them does that contribute to not cutting through the mix. Or is this really just mids. And is mids on say 8 considered tooo high and 'harsh'.. generally speaking regardless of clean or OD..

Logged

gb

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 191
Re: Clean setting - band situation
« Reply #3 on: Time Format »

While im on a roll.. why when you introduce chorus on the mp1 (even via effects unit) it drops volume somewhat.. am i missing something. Any other effects is fine..just chorus whether on mp1 direct or via processor..whats the go there
Logged

Dante

  • Administrator
  • Superhero Member
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2124
  • Nothing more uncommon than common sense
    • The Best Cover Band In Sacramento
Re: Clean setting - band situation
« Reply #4 on: Time Format »

I'd say trust your ears. If 8 sounds good, use it.

My sound is very bottom-ended, probably because I use midrangy pickups a lot. I have my mids around zero-4 on my MP-1 Classic (Different animal, BTW) all the time, while my bass is around 8-12. My highs are usually no higher than 4. Mids are scooped for some patches...sometimes down to -8.

Of course, it all depends on what amp, what speaker cab, what speakers, and the aforementioned guitar construction you have. I have taken some patch settings from folks here on the Forum and they've sounded fantastic, whereas I have also gotten absolute crap from others. Just depends on the rig & the recipe.

Chorus usually brightens my mix up, sometimes good, sometimes not so much. There may be a patch or two where I get quieter when adding it, but that depends on how high I have the overall mix of that effect (in my rig). YMMV

There are a LOT of guys using MP-1s around here, somebody will chime in with the secret for you.

Soloist

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 534
  • Take No Prisoners...Take No Sh!t
Re: Clean setting - band situation
« Reply #5 on: Time Format »

Hey gb, Dante has an excellent point. Everyone uses a different rig so what fits for one doesn't necessarily work for another. I have 2 clean/chorus patches maybe you can tweak one to fit your needs. :thumb-up:

Clean 1.                     
Voice  clean tube
Gain 1.  2.6
Gain 2.  2.6
Master  10
Bass     9
Mid.    4
Treb.   9
Pres. 12
Depth 90
Rate  .2

Clean 2
Voice. SS
Gain 1. 2.6
Gain 2.  6.5
Master. 10
Bass 4
Mid  10
Treble 12
Pres.  4
Depth. 30
Rate.  1.8
Logged
Live Rig:
Fractal Audio FM3 ver 1.06
Boss GT 100 ver.2.11
Switching- Radial Engineering Big Shot I/O v2 - Radial Engineering Pro D2 Stereo Direct Box
Power - Live Wire Power Conditioning Distribution System
Monitors  - (2) FRFR-112 Headrush Stage monitors
Axes - Charvel So Cal Pro Mod-Jackson DK2MQ Pro-Jackson USA Soloist-Ibanez RG3XXV
ADA gear: MP1- MP2 - MT200
Studio gear- way too much to list.

gb

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 191
Re: Clean setting - band situation
« Reply #6 on: Time Format »

Thanks for everyones replies guys!!

Totally understand there are plenty factors involved and there is no 1 setting to suit all. i guess i was more after examples of what you guys use live or band situation so i can use that as a base.

I dont understand the relationship between OD1 and OD2 and which is driving what etc..

But is it fair to say you should be able to get a clean setting cut through the band?

Also i noticed in the above patch a master gain of 10!! Would this not mean it would be quite loud compared to other patches. .unless thats the idea..which leads me onto my next question. . Does volume help cut through a mix? Ie i have a clean and a OD patch. .should they both be ..to your ears..same volume?..or would the clean need to be louder so it doesnt get drowned..or is this where EQ is king.

Sorry just trying to understand. Life was simpler when it was 1 patch and 1 sound lol..
Logged

rnolan

  • Administrator
  • Superhero Member
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5999
Re: Clean setting - band situation
« Reply #7 on: Time Format »

Hey gb, while master on 10 does seem quite loud, Soloist is running quite low gain settings (no doubt to keep it clean) so then needs to turn that up to balance with his other patches.  All the variables mentioned make a difference and it's all about getting the right balance.  I suggest you adjust you loudest over the top lead patch to the right master and output vol levels to be what you need them to be for your rig and then reference all your other patches with that.  eq adds and takes away gain but at specific freq bands. Our ears are more sensitive to mids and upper mids (1khz - 6khz) until the volume is 98db (then the fletcher muchon curves start to reverse).  Presence is generally around 5 - 6khz and helps cut through (I use around 2khz for drums).  Your eq will probably need to be tweaked a bit to fit with the other instruments (the mix), volume can make you louder than anyone else and thus cut "over" the mix, volume at the right freq (eg presence) will help cut through without necessarily drowning other things out.

OD 1 & 2 control the gain in each tube stage, and each 12AX7 tube has 2 gain stages (twin triode). So you have 4 gain stages, OD1 controls tube 1 and OD2 tube 2 (it's a little more complex but that's the idea.. Driving the next gain stage harder makes more distortion (depending on your levels).  IIRC there are some good posts about the MP-1 tube stages.  But I think (rule of thumb) OD1 will set you clean through distortion level (mostly) and OD2 then amplifies that (and can add more distortion), and more gain = more volume, and more eq = more volume, so you set the tone and then adjust the overall vol for each patch with its master. It takes a while before you (tweak) get all your master settings balanced to each other and this has to be done at stage volume.
Logged
Studio Rig: Stuff; Live Rig: More Stuff; Guitars: A few

gb

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 191
Re: Clean setting - band situation
« Reply #8 on: Time Format »

I understand. Thank you for the detailed responses. Much more clearer now. And i knew alot of this stuff (or worked it out) i guess i needed validation that it is in fact correct.

Good stuff. I ended up increasing the mids a touch more and you could tell at rehearsal. Before i thought i had to increase volume and it was kinda blasting everyone and a little harsh and feedback when muting etc.. but now its much more nicer and not ear bleeding. .also the chorus clea with alot more mids really worked. I really underestimated the power of the mids. Before i didnt know what i needed to do and as you said my balance for everythingeas incorrect. Ok... good... getting there. Falling i  love with my mp1 again
Logged

Soloist

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 534
  • Take No Prisoners...Take No Sh!t
Re: Clean setting - band situation
« Reply #9 on: Time Format »

rnolan, great simplified explanation of the gain stages. You are correct on the levels for the clean patch at 10. They are the same volume as my dirty patches where the master on them is at 7 or 7.5. My pickups have a mid bump, plus I also boost my MP1 with an eq pedal mid bump as well. Mids get you heard in the mix. I think gb is on his way to some great tones now that he has a better understanding of mids in the context of a live band situation.  Rock on brother!  :headbanger:
Logged
Live Rig:
Fractal Audio FM3 ver 1.06
Boss GT 100 ver.2.11
Switching- Radial Engineering Big Shot I/O v2 - Radial Engineering Pro D2 Stereo Direct Box
Power - Live Wire Power Conditioning Distribution System
Monitors  - (2) FRFR-112 Headrush Stage monitors
Axes - Charvel So Cal Pro Mod-Jackson DK2MQ Pro-Jackson USA Soloist-Ibanez RG3XXV
ADA gear: MP1- MP2 - MT200
Studio gear- way too much to list.

Dante

  • Administrator
  • Superhero Member
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2124
  • Nothing more uncommon than common sense
    • The Best Cover Band In Sacramento
Re: Clean setting - band situation
« Reply #10 on: Time Format »

I think you guys are touching on a very good bit of advice...when programming your patches, write the clean ones first. They are the limiting factor, because they need more volume to be heard, so you'll need to compensate for that lack of headroom.

I always write my clean solo patches first, then adjust the rest of the patches accordingly. It's not uncommon for my clean solo patch to be maxed out on the master gain, while some grungy patches are running the master around 5.0 - 7.0

gb

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 191
Re: Clean setting - band situation
« Reply #11 on: Time Format »

Yes very good advice and thats the bit i wasnt sure.. but makes sense. Appreciate everyones time to respond!!

Now another question. .i had my poweramp 50watt el34 volume maxed out. My ada mp1 overall vol was at about 11 oclock and my patch was the factory preset 1 with more mids. No feeback standing in front of amp in a small rehersal room. I could have used a touch more volume at rehearsal.. so in this scenario i would increase the overall volume of the unit right (the knob at front).. does it seem quite high where it is now.. or again does it just need to be where it needs to be.?
Logged

Soloist

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 534
  • Take No Prisoners...Take No Sh!t
Re: Clean setting - band situation
« Reply #12 on: Time Format »

I run my power amp at about 50%. The output knob on the MP1 is usually between 1:00 - 2:00. However my power amp is 200 watts, and the mixer channel the MP1 is on runs about 10:00 and mixer master vol is at 12:00. This is plenty loud enough but also leaves me more headroom in case I need it. I would up your preamp output and lower the power amp output a little. Just my opinion.  :metal:
Logged
Live Rig:
Fractal Audio FM3 ver 1.06
Boss GT 100 ver.2.11
Switching- Radial Engineering Big Shot I/O v2 - Radial Engineering Pro D2 Stereo Direct Box
Power - Live Wire Power Conditioning Distribution System
Monitors  - (2) FRFR-112 Headrush Stage monitors
Axes - Charvel So Cal Pro Mod-Jackson DK2MQ Pro-Jackson USA Soloist-Ibanez RG3XXV
ADA gear: MP1- MP2 - MT200
Studio gear- way too much to list.

gb

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 191
Re: Clean setting - band situation
« Reply #13 on: Time Format »

Ok cool can do that. So in that scenario when you want more volume or less. .do you then adjust from power amp or mp1? I only ask as id loke to know what's best or common practice..maybe there are more ways than 1..
Logged

Soloist

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 534
  • Take No Prisoners...Take No Sh!t
Re: Clean setting - band situation
« Reply #14 on: Time Format »

I would adjust volume at the preamp output, not at the power amp. :thumb-up:
Logged
Live Rig:
Fractal Audio FM3 ver 1.06
Boss GT 100 ver.2.11
Switching- Radial Engineering Big Shot I/O v2 - Radial Engineering Pro D2 Stereo Direct Box
Power - Live Wire Power Conditioning Distribution System
Monitors  - (2) FRFR-112 Headrush Stage monitors
Axes - Charvel So Cal Pro Mod-Jackson DK2MQ Pro-Jackson USA Soloist-Ibanez RG3XXV
ADA gear: MP1- MP2 - MT200
Studio gear- way too much to list.
Pages: [1] 2   Go Up