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Author Topic: Power Conditioners  (Read 21830 times)

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rabidgerry

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Power Conditioners
« on: Time Format »

Yes the noise is less if I don't have all the devices plugged into the same plug outlets. 

This is what has appeared to have happened - when I plug the amps (I use two amps) into one set of plug outlets and the preamp into a different set of plug outlets I get less noise.  I still can't use single coil pickups though.  The noise is so bad (guitars are fully shielded).

The noise I was getting was coming through my gear without a guitar+cable connected, like if I just turn everying on but have no guitar connected I was getting noise through the speaker.  Not loud but more than I think I should have been getting.  So when a guitar was plugged in it would obviously be louder noise.  After a switch to alternating plug outlets the noise through the gear with no guitar was less and more what I would describe as a "normal" amount of amp/speaker noise.  And once a guitar was connected up to that arrangement of plugs the noise was also reduced.

I do not know if this is anything to do with the fact my MP1 is using a step down transformer.

If I could try a power conditioner I would.  And if I knew they worked I would buy one in a heartbeat, but so far I've never been convinced.

Do you have one DR?
« Last Edit: Time Format by Systematic Chaos »
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"whadda ya want? we want Heavy Metal"

Guitars:1986 Westone Dimension IV, 1989 Korean Squier Fat Strat Silver Series, 1998 Korean Squier Fat Strat, MIM Fender Fat Strat - FR, Squier Stagemaster Deluxe - Thru Neck x 2, Squier Stagemaster 22 Fret - 1st Gen, 1999 Squier Showmaster - Anniversary Edition, Squier Showmaster, Tokai FV40 Flying V

Effects:  Ada Mp1, Peavey Rockmaster, Boss GT5 Amps:  Harley Benton GPA400 - Rocktron Velocity 300
Cabs: 4 x Bugera 2 x 12"

Systematic Chaos

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Re: Power Conditioners
« Reply #1 on: Time Format »

+1 for the Power Conditioner. I wouldn't wanna miss my Furman. Its providing a constant voltage to my rig and filters any unwanted spikes, drops or "dirty" voltage.
If you can find a Furman PL Plus grab it!
« Last Edit: Time Format by Systematic Chaos »
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rabidgerry

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Re: Power Conditioners
« Reply #2 on: Time Format »

I can't speak for anyone else here in the UK so any UK people splease speak up if you use one of these.

I don't know if we in the UK suffer from voltage spikes or anything like that as much as US for example.  No idea about Europe SC.  I have not come across anyone using a power conditioner in my 9 years of gigging and the oinly thing I have ever saw is a surge protector.

And until I get some hard evidence that they make your setup less noisey by filtering crap out then I don't see the need for a furman.

« Last Edit: Time Format by Systematic Chaos »
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"whadda ya want? we want Heavy Metal"

Guitars:1986 Westone Dimension IV, 1989 Korean Squier Fat Strat Silver Series, 1998 Korean Squier Fat Strat, MIM Fender Fat Strat - FR, Squier Stagemaster Deluxe - Thru Neck x 2, Squier Stagemaster 22 Fret - 1st Gen, 1999 Squier Showmaster - Anniversary Edition, Squier Showmaster, Tokai FV40 Flying V

Effects:  Ada Mp1, Peavey Rockmaster, Boss GT5 Amps:  Harley Benton GPA400 - Rocktron Velocity 300
Cabs: 4 x Bugera 2 x 12"

MarshallJMP

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Re: Power Conditioners
« Reply #3 on: Time Format »

+1 for the Power Conditioner. I wouldn't wanna miss my Furman. Its providing a constant voltage to my rig and filters any unwanted spikes, drops or "dirty" voltage.
If you can find a Furman PL Plus grab it!

+1 on the Furman.It filters out garbage from the net,it protects you gear from spikes and overvoltages and it lights up your rack on the front and back !!!

Lets say you have a gig and some idiot switched the neutral and line and you plug in your gear at 380Vac i guarantee you will blow up a lot of your gear,with a furman you are protected against this,it will go in protect mode and it won't power up  the rest of your gear as long as the voltage is too high.

Now should you decide to buy a furman get one of the new series II or newer.These have an electronic protection system which can be reset.The older ones use VDR for protection,so they will blow and you will need to replace them.

As for single coils,they are more noisy,that's just the way it is,that's why they invented HUMbuckers.
« Last Edit: Time Format by Systematic Chaos »
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Soloist

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Re: Power Conditioners
« Reply #4 on: Time Format »

I would also +1 on the Furman.
Just for the piece of mind alone to protect my shit from power fluctuations. Some of the wiring in these old bars and places I've played looks like it was installed when electricity was first invented  :facepalm: Better to have and be protected than to not have and fry your rig! :nono:
« Last Edit: Time Format by Systematic Chaos »
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Live Rig:
Preamps -ADA MP1-ADA MP2-Marshall JMP1-Digitech GSP 1101-Radial Tonebone Hot British
Post Effects -TC Electronic G Major2-TC Electronics G Force-BBE 482i
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Mixing/Switching -Alesis Multimix8-Voodoo Lab GCP-Voodoo Lab Amp Selector
Power - ADA MT200-Mesa 50/50-Voodoo Lab ISO5 Pedal Power-Furman RP8-Livewire PC1100
Axes - Charvel So Cal Pro Mod-Jackson DK2MQ Pro-Jackson USA Soloist-ESP MH103QM-Ibanez RG3XXV
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rabidgerry

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Re: Power Conditioners
« Reply #5 on: Time Format »

Honestly I realise these things are useful for protection but I still have not seen any evidence of noise reduction.  What noise does it exactly filter out?  If it's 60/50hz hum this is not an issue for me.

I don't think I'll be getting one anytime soon to be honest.


Lets say you have a gig and some idiot switched the neutral and line and you plug in your gear at 380Vac i guarantee you will blow up a lot of your gear,with a furman you are protected against this,it will go in protect mode and it won't power up  the rest of your gear as long as the voltage is too high.

I'm sure it would but why would anyone do this?

No one touches my plugs at shows except to unplug them from mains adapter or extension leads.  That seems a little strange that anyone would do that.

Perhaps it's the two pronged plug that is susceptible to this but not with a UK 3 pronged plug.  You could not switch unless someone opened your plug (highly unlikely) and switched them.  I'm not sure if this is what you mean though.

As for single coils,they are more noisy,that's just the way it is,that's why they invented HUMbuckers.


Yeah I know, but plenty of people use them and don't have as much noise.


Gone a little off topic a here.
« Last Edit: Time Format by Systematic Chaos »
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"whadda ya want? we want Heavy Metal"

Guitars:1986 Westone Dimension IV, 1989 Korean Squier Fat Strat Silver Series, 1998 Korean Squier Fat Strat, MIM Fender Fat Strat - FR, Squier Stagemaster Deluxe - Thru Neck x 2, Squier Stagemaster 22 Fret - 1st Gen, 1999 Squier Showmaster - Anniversary Edition, Squier Showmaster, Tokai FV40 Flying V

Effects:  Ada Mp1, Peavey Rockmaster, Boss GT5 Amps:  Harley Benton GPA400 - Rocktron Velocity 300
Cabs: 4 x Bugera 2 x 12"

Systematic Chaos

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Re: Power Conditioners
« Reply #6 on: Time Format »

The Furman units come with a dedicated RFI/EMI filter and that´s what they filter out of whatever you plug them in besides giving you surge/spike protection.
Lots of bars/clubs have a shitload of electrical gadgets hooked up to single phases of their power lines. Stage lighting + beer draft assembly + deep fryer e.g....
Hook up your rig and a blow dryer in your rehearsal room and give it go...best example.
This is your basic "entry level" Furman PC: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Furman-M-10x-E-Power-Conditioner-New-/371522916739?hash=item56807dd183:g:h-QAAOSwpDdVVcp7

I have an "old" PL-Plus E that´s never let me down. It´s an audible difference (in terms of noise) in whatever place I set up my rig. Never had any issues with it, just replaced the Varistors/MOVs 2 years ago (just for my conscience)....
« Last Edit: Time Format by Systematic Chaos »
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rabidgerry

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Re: Power Conditioners
« Reply #7 on: Time Format »

So are you saying that would create more noise?  More appliances running off the same power supply?  And when I mean noise I mean rfi/emf  I only get hum if I put my guitar right up to my amps or have ground loops with stuff.

If so perhaps I get more noise as I have a PA running, Two mixers, a multitrack, two amps, an MFX unit, a preamp, etc

if you reply back and the answer is yes more stuff on using power supply means more noise in your gear then this would explain some shit I experienced trying to record back guitar through the amps di and also why the f**king thins is so noisey using a single coil pickup.
« Last Edit: Time Format by Systematic Chaos »
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"whadda ya want? we want Heavy Metal"

Guitars:1986 Westone Dimension IV, 1989 Korean Squier Fat Strat Silver Series, 1998 Korean Squier Fat Strat, MIM Fender Fat Strat - FR, Squier Stagemaster Deluxe - Thru Neck x 2, Squier Stagemaster 22 Fret - 1st Gen, 1999 Squier Showmaster - Anniversary Edition, Squier Showmaster, Tokai FV40 Flying V

Effects:  Ada Mp1, Peavey Rockmaster, Boss GT5 Amps:  Harley Benton GPA400 - Rocktron Velocity 300
Cabs: 4 x Bugera 2 x 12"

Systematic Chaos

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Re: Power Conditioners
« Reply #8 on: Time Format »

Yes!

All different kinds of power supplies and them running different types of applications that all draw different currents...
« Last Edit: Time Format by Systematic Chaos »
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rabidgerry

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Re: Power Conditioners
« Reply #9 on: Time Format »

right ok.  How does this get from mains to your guitar signal though?  They are seperate are they not?

I watched this and it was interesting.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LyI85XOKzZ4

Perhaps I get a shit load of noise then more than any of you guys with power conditioners.  I've done well over the years then to deal with it  :lol:

Ok a hypothetical hear.  If I get a power conditioner is noise going to reduce, buzzy shitty RFI/EMF?  (Yes I use proper shielded cables and shielded guitar.)

ok Second, when I divided my amps and plugged them into one side of our rehearsal room and then plugged the MP1 into an extension cable running to sockets on the other side of the room did noise reduce because there was nothing plugged in along side the MP1?

If this is all correct and I get one of these things it might change my noisey LIFE  :lol: :lol:  It seems a little too good to be true though.

Third situation, I run  a multitrack and MP1 and two other power supplies for other devices all into the same sockets in my home studio, I don't have a noise issue (well I don't think the noise is excessive whilst using gain in my opinion).  Why do I not have noise issues here?  Because I'm at much quieter levels?  Would you recommend getting a PwrCon for home studio also?

Fourth thing, these power conditioners all appear to have female IEC sockets, how the hell can I plug in UK plugs into this?

I'm nearly convinved SC but I'll need answers to all above from anyone who has the answers  :thumb-up:  :lol:
« Last Edit: Time Format by Systematic Chaos »
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"whadda ya want? we want Heavy Metal"

Guitars:1986 Westone Dimension IV, 1989 Korean Squier Fat Strat Silver Series, 1998 Korean Squier Fat Strat, MIM Fender Fat Strat - FR, Squier Stagemaster Deluxe - Thru Neck x 2, Squier Stagemaster 22 Fret - 1st Gen, 1999 Squier Showmaster - Anniversary Edition, Squier Showmaster, Tokai FV40 Flying V

Effects:  Ada Mp1, Peavey Rockmaster, Boss GT5 Amps:  Harley Benton GPA400 - Rocktron Velocity 300
Cabs: 4 x Bugera 2 x 12"

Systematic Chaos

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Re: Power Conditioners
« Reply #10 on: Time Format »

right ok.  How does this get from mains to your guitar signal though?  They are seperate are they not?

Wall outlet > cable > transformer (either wall wart or buit-in) > gear

...
Ok a hypothetical hear.  If I get a power conditioner is noise going to reduce, buzzy shitty RFI/EMF?  (Yes I use proper shielded cables and shielded guitar.)

Yes

ok Second, when I divided my amps and plugged them into one side of our rehearsal room and then plugged the MP1 into an extension cable running to sockets on the other side of the room did noise reduce because there was nothing plugged in along side the MP1?

Might be that the outlet on the other side of the room is connected to a different phase.
Else, most easily explained: One outlet plus loads of different gear with different trannies (also in quality) drawing different currents....
That´s also why pedal-board-FX-box junkies always wanna have galvanic separated outlets in their dedicated power bricks, especially when running digital FX-pedals (Dly e.g.) and analog FX-pedals.... daisy-chain them and you´ll have hizz-buzz-humm heaven

If this is all correct and I get one of these things it might change my noisey LIFE  :lol: :lol:  It seems a little too good to be true though.

Third situation, I run  a multitrack and MP1 and two other power supplies for other devices all into the same sockets in my home studio, I don't have a noise issue (well I don't think the noise is excessive whilst using gain in my opinion).  Why do I not have noise issues here?  Because I'm at much quieter levels?  Would you recommend getting a PwrCon for home studio also?

Your home is by 99.9% wired up a lot better/cleaner than your rehearsing room/building and your average pub/bar.
But, once the PC is in the rack and all wired up, why take chances  :thumb-up:

Fourth thing, these power conditioners all appear to have female IEC sockets, how the hell can I plug in UK plugs into this?

As we´ve all done it. Snap/clip off your domestic plug and attach a male IEC plug to pieces of gear you wanna hook up ;-)
No soldering required


Added bonus: You can cut the power cables to a custom length and get rid of cable spaghetti inside of your rack.
Always follow this rule of thumb: power cables on one side of the rack; signal cables on the other  :thumb-up: :thumb-up:

I'm nearly convinved SC but I'll need answers to all above from anyone who has the answers  :thumb-up:  :lol:

Believe me/us. A dedicated Power Conditioner/surge&spike protection is money well spent. Especially in combination with the precious gear we´re all running.
« Last Edit: Time Format by Systematic Chaos »
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rabidgerry

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Re: Power Conditioners
« Reply #11 on: Time Format »

Well blow me down with a feather!

(must apologise for my shit English I spealt hear earlier rather than here woops!)

Ok, understand most of that, didn't get the reference to pedal junkies?  What are they obsessed with doing?  Don't they use batteries a lot of the time?

Cut off all my plugs?  Are you serious?  I've wired one of those things before, in fact one of my first posts on here was about why my first MP1 had a weird IEC style (it wasn't exactly the same as IEC) femal thing attached to it and not a plug!  No one even mentioned why it would have been on there.  It was actually IEC15 socket I think.


Ok in the case of my standard Mp1 where I use a stepdown transformer, do I need to cut off the plug to the transformer and hook one of those sockets on to that as well? (I might get the MDRT by that stage though so no need)

An awful amount of plugs will being cut off.

Another question, all my mixers and PA ans shit, should all these go through a conditioner also?  I don't have noise issues with them really.  So long as the guitar gets improved I don't care about stupid bass and vocals  :thumb-up:
« Last Edit: Time Format by Systematic Chaos »
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"whadda ya want? we want Heavy Metal"

Guitars:1986 Westone Dimension IV, 1989 Korean Squier Fat Strat Silver Series, 1998 Korean Squier Fat Strat, MIM Fender Fat Strat - FR, Squier Stagemaster Deluxe - Thru Neck x 2, Squier Stagemaster 22 Fret - 1st Gen, 1999 Squier Showmaster - Anniversary Edition, Squier Showmaster, Tokai FV40 Flying V

Effects:  Ada Mp1, Peavey Rockmaster, Boss GT5 Amps:  Harley Benton GPA400 - Rocktron Velocity 300
Cabs: 4 x Bugera 2 x 12"

Systematic Chaos

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Re: Power Conditioners
« Reply #12 on: Time Format »

the pedal-board-guys reference was just to give an example of how different applications/circuits (analog vs digital) deal with/draw power/current...
That´s why these folks have them high$$$ pedalboard power-supplies with galvanic separated outlets (CIOKS, Power-Brick,....)
Same happens (to some extent) with rack gear....

In the case with the step-down tranny it is indeed the step-down tranny`s plug that needs to be modified to IEC.
But if you´re planning on getting the MDRT... ;-)
« Last Edit: Time Format by Systematic Chaos »
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rabidgerry

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Re: Power Conditioners
« Reply #13 on: Time Format »

Good work you have now converted me!

But this is the deal, you're buying it off me if I still have noise  :facepalm:

 :thumb-up:

Eyeing a few up on ebay, always after a bargain me  :whoohoo!:
« Last Edit: Time Format by Systematic Chaos »
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"whadda ya want? we want Heavy Metal"

Guitars:1986 Westone Dimension IV, 1989 Korean Squier Fat Strat Silver Series, 1998 Korean Squier Fat Strat, MIM Fender Fat Strat - FR, Squier Stagemaster Deluxe - Thru Neck x 2, Squier Stagemaster 22 Fret - 1st Gen, 1999 Squier Showmaster - Anniversary Edition, Squier Showmaster, Tokai FV40 Flying V

Effects:  Ada Mp1, Peavey Rockmaster, Boss GT5 Amps:  Harley Benton GPA400 - Rocktron Velocity 300
Cabs: 4 x Bugera 2 x 12"

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Re: Power Conditioners
« Reply #14 on: Time Format »


Lets say you have a gig and some idiot switched the neutral and line and you plug in your gear at 380Vac i guarantee you will blow up a lot of your gear,with a furman you are protected against this,it will go in protect mode and it won't power up  the rest of your gear as long as the voltage is too high.

I'm sure it would but why would anyone do this?

No one touches my plugs at shows except to unplug them from mains adapter or extension leads.  That seems a little strange that anyone would do that.

Gone a little off topic a here.

You would be amased what sometimes happends
« Last Edit: Time Format by Systematic Chaos »
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