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Temp "Time Format" issue Fix in Discussions

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Author Topic: Dead spots  (Read 179 times)

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Iperfungus

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Dead spots
« on: Time Format »

I found that many of my guitars have a dead spot on G string at 12th fret: less sustain and quick decay than other notes on other strings or same strings at different frets (there's also a wolf tone on B string at 9th fret....meaning an overtone when sustain ends...).
They are very different guitars and it doesn't matter the scale, strings gauge, set-in or screwed necks, neck wood and so on.

I've found that's a very common issue on many different guitars around the world, cheap ones or expensive ones.
It's not related to hardware, bridge, saddles, setup, frets and so on: it's related to neck resonance only.
Many people says they fixed the issue by adding mass to headstock in some way.

Do you guys have similar behavior on some of your guitars? Do you live with it and forget or did you attempt to fix it?
How? Did it work?

Let's go!!!  :banana-upsidedown:
« Last Edit: Time Format by Iperfungus »
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ADA MP-1 (modified by MJMP)->TC Electronic G Major->Advance Tube Technologies TA '70 tube power amp

Marshall JMP1->Alesis Quadraverb GT->Marshall Valvestate 8008 power amp

Zoom 9150->Marshall Valvestate 8004 power amp
Zoom 8050 MIDI Controller
Zoom FP01 Expression pedal

Behringer FCB1010 MIDI controller

Blackstar HTV 212 stereo cabinet with 70/80 Celestion speakers

Amps:

Rivera Pubster 25
Blackstar Fly 3 amp + external speaker

Stomps, stomps, stomps...and stomps (Bogner rules!):

TC Helix phaser, Xotic RC Booster, TC Sentry noise gate, Bogner Ecstasy Blue, Bogner Ecstasy Red, Mad Professor Royal Blue Overdrive, Sonic Research Turbo Tuner, TC Flashback delay

Guitars:

2018 Arrogantia Pandora Vendetta 24 HH Trem-1987 PRS Custom-1988 Fender Strat Plus-2016 Custom assembled Fender Strat-2013 Gibson SG Standard-1995 Gibson Les Paul Studio-1991 MIJ Ibanez RG570FM TB-2016 MIJ Ibanez RG655M SPM-2002 Bruno Traverso Custom "Tommy" Silky-2017 Kramer Baretta Special-2010 Simon & Patrick Woodland CW acoustic

rnolan

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Re: Dead spots
« Reply #1 on: Time Format »

Hey Max, I just tried my tele and it doesn't have the 12th fret dead spot, B 9th fret (G#) has an interesting harmonic after ring compared to 8th fret.  The was a post ages ago about tone woods and a good article about the various choices, anyway it said rosewood sucked tone which was why leo fender use a thin (almost veneer) rosewood fingerboard. (http://www.frudua.com/sound_of_electric_guitar_wood.htm).
I'll try my other guitars as they come out of their cases from time to time.
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GuitarBuilder

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Re: Dead spots
« Reply #2 on: Time Format »

Let's start by you listing each of the guitars that exhibit this problem, so we can see what they have in common.
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Iperfungus

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Re: Dead spots
« Reply #3 on: Time Format »

Hey Max, I just tried my tele and it doesn't have the 12th fret dead spot, B 9th fret (G#) has an interesting harmonic after ring compared to 8th fret.  The was a post ages ago about tone woods and a good article about the various choices, anyway it said rosewood sucked tone which was why leo fender use a thin (almost veneer) rosewood fingerboard. (http://www.frudua.com/sound_of_electric_guitar_wood.htm).
I'll try my other guitars as they come out of their cases from time to time.

That's funny a lot!
Galeazzo Frudua is now a dear friend 'o mine and he as been my Master/teacher 2 years ago, when I started learning more about guitars reparing and lutherie: we had 5 day of training where he made me learn a lot of his methods and tricks.
I will see him here in Genoa next week!  :lol:
I will make him have a look...

He's a renowned pro luthier who has built electric guitars and basses for a lot of people (and many pros) for over 30 years.
Definitely, Gale is one who knows what he's talking about: that's a great article!!!
« Last Edit: Time Format by Iperfungus »
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Rack stuff from Hell:

ADA MP-1 (modified by MJMP)->TC Electronic G Major->Advance Tube Technologies TA '70 tube power amp

Marshall JMP1->Alesis Quadraverb GT->Marshall Valvestate 8008 power amp

Zoom 9150->Marshall Valvestate 8004 power amp
Zoom 8050 MIDI Controller
Zoom FP01 Expression pedal

Behringer FCB1010 MIDI controller

Blackstar HTV 212 stereo cabinet with 70/80 Celestion speakers

Amps:

Rivera Pubster 25
Blackstar Fly 3 amp + external speaker

Stomps, stomps, stomps...and stomps (Bogner rules!):

TC Helix phaser, Xotic RC Booster, TC Sentry noise gate, Bogner Ecstasy Blue, Bogner Ecstasy Red, Mad Professor Royal Blue Overdrive, Sonic Research Turbo Tuner, TC Flashback delay

Guitars:

2018 Arrogantia Pandora Vendetta 24 HH Trem-1987 PRS Custom-1988 Fender Strat Plus-2016 Custom assembled Fender Strat-2013 Gibson SG Standard-1995 Gibson Les Paul Studio-1991 MIJ Ibanez RG570FM TB-2016 MIJ Ibanez RG655M SPM-2002 Bruno Traverso Custom "Tommy" Silky-2017 Kramer Baretta Special-2010 Simon & Patrick Woodland CW acoustic

Iperfungus

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Re: Dead spots
« Reply #4 on: Time Format »

Let's start by you listing each of the guitars that exhibit this problem, so we can see what they have in common.

I think the only thing they have in common are....strings!  :lol:
But I also use different gauges on those guitars: 9-42 or 10-46.

I compared an assembled Strat (vintage bridge, hard rock maple neck, rosewood fretboard, 21 jumbo frets, single action truss rod), a cheap Kramer Baretta Special (vintage bridge, hard rock maple neck, rosewood fretboard, 22 jumbo frets, single action truss rod), 2 Ibanez RG (a recent RG655 and a 1991 RG570, Edge bridge, 5 pieces maple/walnut Super Wizard neck and rosewood fretboard on the 655, hard rock maple/rosewood Wizard neck/fretboard on the 570 with scarf headstock joint, 24 jumbo frets, single action truss rod), my Traverso Silky (custom made, long scale, locking Schaller/Floyd Rose bridge, maple/rosewood neck/fretboard, 24 Dunlop 6100 frets, double action truss rod) and my new Arrogantia (short scale, Schaller Vintage bridge, Schaller locking tuners, zero fret, quartersawn maple/ebony neck/fretboard, 12 jumbo + 12 narrow jumbo Jescar EVO Gold frets, double action steel truss rod).

The funny thing is that the only one of the aboves that seems to have not the issue with dead spot on the G string at 12th fret is the Kramer....and the one that shows it more is the last Arrogantia.  :lol: :lol: :lol:
The other guitars stay in the middle...being worst than the Baretta and slightly better than the Arrogantia.

In any case, G string's sustain at 12th fret seems to have less sustain than other strings at the same fret or the same string at other frets in most of the cases.

On the Arrogantia I improved the situation with the following actions:

1) light frets sanding and polishing (now they really shine!)
2) better truss rod adjustment and neck relief
3) complete new setup with  9.5-44 strings

The dead spot is still there, but there's a little more sustain and a more natural decay.
I did not attempt to fix the issue on other guitars yet.

Now I've to verify what happens with my SG Standard and 1987 PRS Custom (these are known for having a lot of dead spots here and there all along the fretboard...maybe due to brazilian rosewood?).

By the way, this is something I can live with and forget.
When I bend the G string at 12th fret it sustains excellently and when I play the note it sustains enough to create not any real problem.

I assume Gale Frudua is right when he says that this is the nature of wood and instruments.
I'm just curious to see what will happen in the next years with neck's stabilization and woods seasoning and drying.
I also cannot tell if that frequencies are "killed" by maple or ebony...but I'm thinking about ebony, since all other guitars have rosewood fretboars...
Maybe that ebony have a particular density around 12th fret's area, who knows?
« Last Edit: Time Format by Iperfungus »
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Rack stuff from Hell:

ADA MP-1 (modified by MJMP)->TC Electronic G Major->Advance Tube Technologies TA '70 tube power amp

Marshall JMP1->Alesis Quadraverb GT->Marshall Valvestate 8008 power amp

Zoom 9150->Marshall Valvestate 8004 power amp
Zoom 8050 MIDI Controller
Zoom FP01 Expression pedal

Behringer FCB1010 MIDI controller

Blackstar HTV 212 stereo cabinet with 70/80 Celestion speakers

Amps:

Rivera Pubster 25
Blackstar Fly 3 amp + external speaker

Stomps, stomps, stomps...and stomps (Bogner rules!):

TC Helix phaser, Xotic RC Booster, TC Sentry noise gate, Bogner Ecstasy Blue, Bogner Ecstasy Red, Mad Professor Royal Blue Overdrive, Sonic Research Turbo Tuner, TC Flashback delay

Guitars:

2018 Arrogantia Pandora Vendetta 24 HH Trem-1987 PRS Custom-1988 Fender Strat Plus-2016 Custom assembled Fender Strat-2013 Gibson SG Standard-1995 Gibson Les Paul Studio-1991 MIJ Ibanez RG570FM TB-2016 MIJ Ibanez RG655M SPM-2002 Bruno Traverso Custom "Tommy" Silky-2017 Kramer Baretta Special-2010 Simon & Patrick Woodland CW acoustic

rnolan

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Re: Dead spots
« Reply #5 on: Time Format »

I wonder if it's a resonant frequency thing  :dunno: , have you tried dropping the tuning a 1/2 tone or tone and see/hear if it has any affect ?
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Iperfungus

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Re: Dead spots
« Reply #6 on: Time Format »

I wonder if it's a resonant frequency thing  :dunno: , have you tried dropping the tuning a 1/2 tone or tone and see/hear if it has any affect ?

Yes, it is...but is coming out somewhere from neck (or fretboard?) wood quite for sure: most probably the resonant peak is too close to strings resonant peak and in that case (and that case only) the effect is that neck resonance cancels some frequencies when the G string is played at 12th fret.
I attempted to change the tuning with the previous strings gauge and it didn't change a lot, if I remember right (or maybe I just raised the G string... :dunno:): I will do another test with the new strings gauge to see what happens.  :thumb-up:

I would not call this "a problem" but "a behavior", at the end.
It's made of wood...and the wood is alive: you cannot be 100% sure about final result until the instrument is finished.  :lol:
« Last Edit: Time Format by Iperfungus »
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On the run again!

Rack stuff from Hell:

ADA MP-1 (modified by MJMP)->TC Electronic G Major->Advance Tube Technologies TA '70 tube power amp

Marshall JMP1->Alesis Quadraverb GT->Marshall Valvestate 8008 power amp

Zoom 9150->Marshall Valvestate 8004 power amp
Zoom 8050 MIDI Controller
Zoom FP01 Expression pedal

Behringer FCB1010 MIDI controller

Blackstar HTV 212 stereo cabinet with 70/80 Celestion speakers

Amps:

Rivera Pubster 25
Blackstar Fly 3 amp + external speaker

Stomps, stomps, stomps...and stomps (Bogner rules!):

TC Helix phaser, Xotic RC Booster, TC Sentry noise gate, Bogner Ecstasy Blue, Bogner Ecstasy Red, Mad Professor Royal Blue Overdrive, Sonic Research Turbo Tuner, TC Flashback delay

Guitars:

2018 Arrogantia Pandora Vendetta 24 HH Trem-1987 PRS Custom-1988 Fender Strat Plus-2016 Custom assembled Fender Strat-2013 Gibson SG Standard-1995 Gibson Les Paul Studio-1991 MIJ Ibanez RG570FM TB-2016 MIJ Ibanez RG655M SPM-2002 Bruno Traverso Custom "Tommy" Silky-2017 Kramer Baretta Special-2010 Simon & Patrick Woodland CW acoustic

Iperfungus

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Re: Dead spots
« Reply #7 on: Time Format »

Interesting things...

My 1987 PRS Custom and my 2013 Gibson SG Std show the same issue with G string at 12th fret, the PRS being the worst of all!  :lol:

It seems the only guitar I own that doesn't show this behavior is the 150 euros Kramer Baretta Special...ahahahahah!!!
That guitar with a JB really rocks.  :headbanger:
« Last Edit: Time Format by Iperfungus »
Logged
On the run again!

Rack stuff from Hell:

ADA MP-1 (modified by MJMP)->TC Electronic G Major->Advance Tube Technologies TA '70 tube power amp

Marshall JMP1->Alesis Quadraverb GT->Marshall Valvestate 8008 power amp

Zoom 9150->Marshall Valvestate 8004 power amp
Zoom 8050 MIDI Controller
Zoom FP01 Expression pedal

Behringer FCB1010 MIDI controller

Blackstar HTV 212 stereo cabinet with 70/80 Celestion speakers

Amps:

Rivera Pubster 25
Blackstar Fly 3 amp + external speaker

Stomps, stomps, stomps...and stomps (Bogner rules!):

TC Helix phaser, Xotic RC Booster, TC Sentry noise gate, Bogner Ecstasy Blue, Bogner Ecstasy Red, Mad Professor Royal Blue Overdrive, Sonic Research Turbo Tuner, TC Flashback delay

Guitars:

2018 Arrogantia Pandora Vendetta 24 HH Trem-1987 PRS Custom-1988 Fender Strat Plus-2016 Custom assembled Fender Strat-2013 Gibson SG Standard-1995 Gibson Les Paul Studio-1991 MIJ Ibanez RG570FM TB-2016 MIJ Ibanez RG655M SPM-2002 Bruno Traverso Custom "Tommy" Silky-2017 Kramer Baretta Special-2010 Simon & Patrick Woodland CW acoustic
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