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Author Topic: How do you set your Effects Send?  (Read 9766 times)

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rickeb1

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How do you set your Effects Send?
« on: Time Format »

I have a 3TM, and am running an ISP Decimator Pro Rack G in the effects loop of the 3TM to bring down the noise level.  I'm wondering what volume I should set the effects send knob to in sending the signal to the Decimator?  I currently have it set very, very low, but that is more by accident than by a conscious decision, so I'm looking to see if anyone has any thoughts on the optimal setting for this.

Thanks!

~ Rick
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rickeb1

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Re: How do you set your Effects Send?
« Reply #1 on: Time Format »

Anyone using the effects send that can chime in on how they have the volume knob set and why?  Thanks!
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rnolan

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Re: How do you set your Effects Send?
« Reply #2 on: Time Format »

Hey rickeb1, first, the Mp1 loop is/can be a bit tricky, not everyone likes it, (i.e. it's a serial (brakes your connection)) loop with one adjustment pot set to achieve unity gain.  That said it can work well, depends.  Your using a noise gate device (why ?, are you running very high gain patches ?), 3 TMs are usually optimised for lower noise ??? maybe the rest of your gain structure isn't optimal ? (how are you patching your gadgets ?, i.e. what goes to what etc..), will help me get my head around your specific set up...
Cheers Richard
PS the MP1 loop level control is an "opposing" dual ganged pot, when you turn it up (turns up input) it turns down output and vis versa.

I'd start with the decimator knob(s) at half way and try it in either direction.  But I still question why you need a decimator (N/R) with a fully modded 3TM ?, BTW it will (always) sound better going through "less" things.
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rickeb1

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Re: How do you set your Effects Send?
« Reply #3 on: Time Format »

Hey Richard, thanks for the reply!  My setup is as basic as it gets: guitar -> 3TM -> poweramp, with the Decimator in the loop of the 3TM.  The 3TM may be optimised for low noise, but mine is still noisier than I would like.  I don't normally run super-high gain settings (although sometimes I'd like to :)).  My most typical setting uses the Distortion setting with OD1 and OD2 both set at 4.8, and the Master Gain at 6. 

I've had some correspondence with MarshallJMP (great guy!) about the noise, until it got to where he asked me to measure voltages across some components which I have no idea how to do (no electronics background).  So, the Decimator works well enough to quiet the noise while not messing with my tone in any noticeable way.

I didn't know about the "opposing" nature of the effect send pot.  If that's the case, then maybe it doesn't matter that much what it is set at, as long as it is enough to drive the Decimator, and a low setting seems to work fine for that.

Thanks!

~ Rick
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rnolan

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Re: How do you set your Effects Send?
« Reply #4 on: Time Format »

Hey Rick, no worries, a more elaborate fix (fair bit of work though) is to do what Zsoli has done (http://adadepot.com/index.php?topic=311.15#lastPost) and replace all the opp amps, you'd probably need to get a tech to do this for you though, also not sure what it cost him in the end, but from what he says, it really cleans the unit up.

I guess ADA went for that loop pot setup to suit pedals with no in/out gain controls so as you increase the loop send it decreases the return etc.  The idea would be adjust it to the point where the decimator has good input level (better signal to noise ratio) and turn the decimator output such that there is no increase/decrease in overall level when the loop is in compared to when it is out.  I know Steve (RandallRG, and others) uses his 3TM loop so may have some good tips.  I never used it when I had a MP1 and I know MJMP isn't overly fond of the MP1 loop as it can be tricky to set.

When I google the Decomator pro G it has 2 channels, if yours is like that you could put it between the MP1 and poweramp e.g. guitar > MP1> MP1 A out to Dec Chan 1 in, MP1 B out to Dec Chan 2 in, then Dec Chan 1/2 outs to poweramp A/B ins unless you just want in on specific patches.
The switch on each channel (+4db or -10db) is to set the decimator gain (input sensitivity, output level), so +4db for line level things, -10db for instrument level things.  If you put it between the MP1 and poweramp set this to +4db, in the MP1 loop it will work either way but on the -10db setting you'd turn the loop send down, on +4db turn the loop send up.
Cheers Richard
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Dna^Yay

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Re: How do you set your Effects Send?
« Reply #5 on: Time Format »

Hey Rick

Whats the ISP Decimator like? O am considering getting one, the stereo modded version so i can use it with two different preamps. Also if i am m not mistaken i think you have to plug your guitar into the Decimator first then out into the amp for the best results i hear.

http://www.pedalspluseffectswarehouse.com/v/vspfiles/assets/images/isp%20prorack%20g%20diagram.jpg
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MarshallJMP

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Re: How do you set your Effects Send?
« Reply #6 on: Time Format »

I have the decimator pro G in my rack and it's the best noise gate i ever had and i had alot of different noise gates.It responds really quick.I have the stereo version but i like to use it mono because it works far better that way.
My setup is guitar ==> in ch1,out cha1 ==> in mp-1,out A mp-1 ==> in cha 2,out cha 2 ==> effects
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rnolan

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Re: How do you set your Effects Send?
« Reply #7 on: Time Format »

Hey MJMP, interesting way to patch it, so you have a gate on your guitar signal (similar I spose to muteting all the strings with left and right hand (like a cranked squealing early Marshall in their day  >:D , or vol knob off ) only faster/more effective and leaves your hands free).  BTW what do you do with MP1 B channel ?
If you have a desk (I daresay you do), may I suggest guit > MP1, MP1 A/B > desk chan 1/2, use desk chan 1/2 inserts for decimator chan1/2 I/O, (so you've got you're gate but after all the gain/noise/etc but guitar is free....(important to me, IMHO sounds better)), run the effects off effects/monitor sends ((chain them if you have to...) in this scenario it doesn't matter that much if you use pre or post sends coz once they're set your not likely to change them much (i.e. reduce MP1 vols on desk and want the requisite reduction on effects sends)) >>  power amp, cabs... :thumb-up:
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rickeb1

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Re: How do you set your Effects Send?
« Reply #8 on: Time Format »

I agree that the Decimator is a great unit that does what it is supposed to really well without sucking any tone!  The only very minor annoyance is that there is no front input for the guitar; you have to connect it in the back of the unit.

I currently have mine setup as: Gtr -> Decimator ch1 in -> Decimator ch1 out -> MP1 input -> MP1 effects send -> Decimator ch2 in -> Decimator ch2 out -> MP1 effects return -> MP1 out A to power amp. 

I also sometimes use an effects unit.  In that case, I insert the effects unit (Digitech GSP-1101) bewteen the Decimator ch2 out and the MP1 effects return to try to insure that the cleanest possible signal is going into the effects unit.

Thanks for the replies!

~ Rick
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MarshallJMP

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Re: How do you set your Effects Send?
« Reply #9 on: Time Format »

Hey MJMP, interesting way to patch it, so you have a gate on your guitar signal (similar I spose to muteting all the strings with left and right hand (like a cranked squealing early Marshall in their day  >:D , or vol knob off ) only faster/more effective and leaves your hands free).  BTW what do you do with MP1 B channel ?
If you have a desk (I daresay you do), may I suggest guit > MP1, MP1 A/B > desk chan 1/2, use desk chan 1/2 inserts for decimator chan1/2 I/O, (so you've got you're gate but after all the gain/noise/etc but guitar is free....(important to me, IMHO sounds better)), run the effects off effects/monitor sends ((chain them if you have to...) in this scenario it doesn't matter that much if you use pre or post sends coz once they're set your not likely to change them much (i.e. reduce MP1 vols on desk and want the requisite reduction on effects sends)) >>  power amp, cabs... :thumb-up:

Doesn't work so good this way,this way it's more sensitive for gate chatter.The way i use it,i first kill the noise comming from the guitar and channel 2 kills the noise from the 3TM.Altough my rig is actually very quiet i used a noise gate mainly to kill the feedback at high volumes.
« Last Edit: Time Format by MarshallJMP »
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rnolan

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Re: How do you set your Effects Send?
« Reply #10 on: Time Format »

Doesn't work so good this way,this way it's more sensitive for gate chatter.The way i use it,i first kill the noise comming from the guitar and channel 2 kills the noise from the 3TM.Altough my rig is actually very quiet i used a noise gate mainly to kill the feedback at high volumes.
Absolutely get what your doing, you must be running lotssss of gain to need to do this ? So it's mono some of the way, no MP1 stereo chorus (or great fattening effect, depth 100, rate 0.0), and then goes mono into stereo digitised gadgets to power amp/cabs ?
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MarshallJMP

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Re: How do you set your Effects Send?
« Reply #11 on: Time Format »

That was what i had to sacrifice,the stereo chorus.But since i don't use the mp-1 for cleans i don't need or use it so it wasen't a big problem.The mp-2 is hooked up in stereo so no problem for using a stereo chorus.And mostly i use the chorus from the digitizer which is also stereo.
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rickeb1

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Re: How do you set your Effects Send?
« Reply #12 on: Time Format »

Just wanted to add that I did some experimenting last night, and although I didn’t notice any real tone change when running the Decimator in the loop of the MP-1, there was a very noticeable tone change (for the worse) when running my effects unit in the loop.  So, I followed MarshallJMP’s tact of feeding the effects unit from the MP-1 output A instead of the effects loop send, then running the output of the effects unit directly to the power amp rather than back into the MP-1 effects loop return.  I have to say that this sounds substantially better than running the effects unit through the MP-1 loop, so I have to agree that the MP-1 loop is not all that good. 

Again, it didn’t seem to make much difference when just running the Decimator in the loop, but with the effects unit in the loop, it was a different story.  So, thanks very much for the tip of bypassing the MP-1 effects loop!

~ Rick
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MarshallJMP

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Re: How do you set your Effects Send?
« Reply #13 on: Time Format »

Well it seems the loop works great with some stuff and not so great with other stuff.So i guess it's trial and  error.
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