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[El Chiguete]

@SC hey how can we chat on the MPX-G2 (Faceb**k, Whatsapp, Skype,... you tell me)? I want to ask some questions on how you use set some settings.

[rabidgerry]

going drastically off topic here, but @SC, I seem to have a patch using the 3TM 'er at relatively high settings (od1 7.5 od2 and it's to noisey and it behaves with about 50% of the threshold on the noise reduction which is good (anything past 60 eats into the tone).  I'll record a clip tonight for assessment. So not sure how I came up with that patch and it's not as noisey as others.  So perhaps I'm winning after all.  Made that patch up a while ago and forgot about it.

[rnolan]

Ah with gain comes noise LOL, try a '70s Marshall at full tilt, an impressive beast to attempt to control. Particularly with single coil PUs (oh no not fluorescent lights (buzz humm click squeal))  .

SCs suggestions are the way to go (on the money  ) , get the MP1 working Guit and (loud) amp. Sort out any suspect leads/connections.  It should sound great! (why we like them) and without any NR. Then bring in the GT5 and adjust so there is no overall level increase (they idea of unity gain, what goes in volts wise is what comes out volts wise albeit modified in tone/freq etc). If the noise is not lead/connector related, then it's definitely gain structure (IMHO).  You might try the GT5 gains (internally) at 90 rather than 70 (keep the signal above the noise floor as much as you can but keep a little headroom). And careful how you drive the MP1 input, it's designed for a guitar signal, unless you have the un-modded line input on the back, which likes a line level signal (this is an option to try BTW and turn/set the GT5 send to line level).

Using a mixer, is a way to go and has got a little easier (though haven't bought one yet), my desk is velcro'd to the bottom of my 8RU SKB, so not a big hassle, stays patched etc but not great for planes LOL.  There are a couple of 1RU line mixer options that look ok, I'd like more aux/FX sends than they have, but compact.  I'm thinking a 4RU rack, MP2, Quadverb, Mixer, Carvin DCM200 although I could run the Quadverb in the MP2 loop.

Hey El, glad the headphone out worked for you  way to go 

[rabidgerry]

Done this before but I'll try it again.  I keep getting paranoid like it's the guitars I'm using etc  but they are fine with the boss and 50ish on the noise reduction is sufficient enough.

The GT5 has a send level that's it.  However in all honesty, I never need to mess with it because the level coming out is pretty much the exact same as the guitar until say I put an over drive on which would then feed into the MP1.  I level match on my Boss the whole way through the chain so nothing is ever above 70% of their meter.  I'll try your suggestion anyways.

sorry just requoting myself Richard lol

Of course with more gain comes noise, but it has to be usable with a large percentage of that gain other wise what is the point in having a 3TM   I've had the MP1s by themselves (nothing external or attached) and they aren't a great deal better, need noise reduction big time. All my cables are noiseless with dual shields, I made them myself using decent cable (cause it's way cheaper to do so).  By process of elimination it's the MP1 that brings the noise, because everything was manageable before I got it.  Keeping the input gain down on the Boss seems to have helped, not sure if that was the correct thing to do though (the guitar input on the boss that is which is the very first thing in the chain and controled by a trim pot.)


But from the post I did before I accidentally discovered I had a patch already created using quite a lot of gain but with a noise level that was workable with NR threshold at about 50%.  This has the MP1 in boss loop, so I can modify to my hearts content on the boss whilst having the 3TM as my amp/drive sound/distortion sound.  I have been using it with an external speaker sim and selecting a JBL  d120 and d130 speaker impulses.

[rnolan]

Hey RG, it has to be useful or why bother, and great that you've a usable patch on the 3TM  .
From my experience, Guit > MP1 (factory patch 1 Marshall)> stereo poweramp > cabs loud (cranked) should sound great and not need any NR (this is not a 3TM however  I've not had/used one).  MP2 has more gain than MP1 so I needed a little NR on the high gain patches (threshold 17 - 25 ish). So if above is noisy (Guit, MP1, Amp, Cabs), there maybe other issues to sus ? just a thought.

Lowering the GT5 input gain is a band aid (IMO), what that's doing is reducing the send level to MP1 so it's not being over driven (it wants a direct guitar signal not a GT5 send). Try using the back line in (if you have one in one of your MP1s) and bring the GT5 input back up (as all else (in GT5) depends on it being good level). Anyway my thoughts 

[rabidgerry]

Never thought of that Richard.
However when I lower the ACTUAL send level out of the loop the noise is still there and of course the distortion reduces with the mp1 because the signal coming in is much lower and not driving as much.

So yeah I have just lowered the input gain on the boss that accepts the guitar signal and has a clipping light etc.

You can use an MP1 with no noise reduction? What gain settings?  I find this incredible.  No noise?  You have to be exagerating man.  My 3TM has noise mod and everything and it's still noisey.  Surely there is hiss or some shit noise in there?

If I plug in my MP1 (the unmodded one) and use a medium gain setting I have noise.

[rnolan]

Hey RG, Have a listen to Rev Rock clip I put in MP1 Audio Clips, that's my old MP1 (now MikeBs), Guit > MP1 > Mixer/Quadverb/IPS33 Smart Shift > B200s > Stereo Cab, and totally live ( a pair of SM57s), That patch is the MP1 106 in the MP1 patches I posted and cranked  (hey, there was a drummer in the room LOL). No noise issues (no NR), lots of gain.

3TM is a different animal, there's an extra tube and I've never played with one so I leave that to the high gain heads/guys here... even with noise mod it's going to have more noise (as more gain). I don't think any 3TMers don't use NR, from the posts I've read.

[El Chiguete]

..., That patch is the MP1 106 in the MP1 patches I posted and cranked  (hey, there was a drummer in the room LOL). No noise issues (no NR), lots of gain.

I don't find patch 106 in this list you posted http://adadepot.com/index.php?topic=754.0

[rabidgerry]

Hey RG, Have a listen to Rev Rock clip I put in MP1 Audio Clips, that's my old MP1 (now MikeBs), Guit > MP1 > Mixer/Quadverb/IPS33 Smart Shift > B200s > Stereo Cab, and totally live ( a pair of SM57s), That patch is the MP1 106 in the MP1 patches I posted and cranked  (hey, there was a drummer in the room LOL). No noise issues (no NR), lots of gain.

3TM is a different animal, there's an extra tube and I've never played with one so I leave that to the high gain heads/guys here... even with noise mod it's going to have more noise (as more gain). I don't think any 3TMers don't use NR, from the posts I've read.

where is it man I can't find he clip?

[rnolan]

Hey El sorry, Idom't seem to have wruitten that one down.. may bummer, it's my fav..
  #   Voice OD1  OD2   M   B  M   T  P   Ch D     R
103   DT    3.8   3.4   4.5  9  6   6 10      100  0.0
109   DT    8.5   8.0   8.0  4 -6   0   0      100  0.0
107   DT    3.8   6.5   6.5  9  2   2   4      100  0.0
102   DT    6.0   5.0   5.5  6  4  -2   8      100  0.0
Clean
100   CT    4.8   3.2   7.0  4 -8   6 12        10  1.7
101   CT    4.8   3.6   7.5  4 -8   6 12        10  1.7

Try 107 (very similar IIRC) but bigger stereo delay (250 <>500ms) (and a touch of flange) for 106 (if anything turn things down to get toward 106)

Hey RG, file attached my freind.

[MarshallJMP]

wauw nice sound,are you sure this is your mp-1 and not your marshall 

[rabidgerry]

Hey RG, file attached my freind.

sounds great man, good song as well.  So how much post production did you add after EQ etc?  And be honest 

So yeah give me some settings to try right and let me know then if I should have noise or no noise with the MP1.

I was playing about last night and I dialed out more on the 3TM,  obviously sounded better in regards to noise but is it still a hi gain sound?  Sometimes I forget how much gain I'm using.  I shall post a clip later when I get a chance to record.  I think quite a bit of crap gets through with the trebel on the EQ of the MP1.  I had it at 9 and lowered it to 4, sounded way better.  Kept the presence and also selected a suitable speaker sound.

Perhaps this discussion needs to into a different thread?

Have we completely finished up on the planes and racks topic?  Well anyone who comes across this who has anything to add about their rack and traveling on a plane with it please post your experience on here 

[rnolan]

Hey glad you like it  .
Very straight forward, it's Anderson (ultrasonics PUs) > MP1 > IPS 33 Smart shift/Alesis Quadverb (on mixer aux sends/return down channels) > ADA B200s > stereo (rewired Yamaha (with a plessey 12U50 on  each side (as 2 of the Yamaha speakers were blown))) cab (quad box). 2 x SM57s>>>. Whole track is live. No post production, recorded live to 2 ch DAT. I dubbed to reasonable quality cassette at the time (no PC digital recording back then), then later sampled into pro tools 48k 24bit from cassette (by then DAT tapes lost .. not my fault). No post production, not even eq, nothing.. then Bounce to AIF, convert to crapp highest qual MP3 my codecs can do, is what I've attached, and what you get to hear. And there was a real drummer in the room LOL, this was all at stage level volumes (i.e. loud), it was just a jam.... I kind of wrote years ago just playing at parties...

[rabidgerry]

The guitar rig sounds simple enough but the recording setup is wild sounding.

Sounds great man.  Still dunno how you had no noise.  I mean  No noise with clean channel is fine, but medium gain with any piece of kit I expect a bit of hiss at the very least.

[rnolan]

The mix was really simple, I think he used a Soundcraft Spirit desk and maybe a delay for Vox and spx 90 rev for kit ?? (I'll ask and see if he remembers). Very good audio engineer my mate Rich Muecke... Probably makes it sound easy (which it was LOL).

I'm a bit bemused by the noise issue stuff. I never had any issues with the MP1. Yeah it was a bit "hot" but easy to control (but remember I grew up with 1970's Marshalls squealing like banshees at full crank LOL). I suspect it's gain structure related, not only is that rig relatively straight forward, the gain structure was solid (much easier when using small mixer and aux/FX sends in my experience). But also I'm not trying to combine tubes (which have a much better/wider dynamic range than transistors) into a SS send return loop. The MP1 is the main (only) tone and I just put/mix some FXs on it and feed it to the cabs. I'd describe that patch I used as upper medium high gain in MP1 terms.
I thought about (the noise thing) is it because MP1's are getting older... Well MikeBs (that MP1, and a very early one) is still going strong and worked a great at the gig last Saturday (not that he wails quite like me, but definitely no noise issues, and we were cranked  ), he did bust a D string though LOL, hey good time for speeches LOL.

I think the common thread (my thought bubble) is you get issues combining MP1 in SS loops, because the tubes have such a big dynamic range and the SS circuits aren't designed to cope so you get more noise.

If I were you I'd build a 6 RU rack MP1, MP13TM, GT5 (but FX only) or a better decent multi FX device, 1RU line mixer, 1RU Carvin DCM200 (or the one you were scoping (but adds colour, DCM200 wont add colour)). Or even better MP2 and loose MP1/ MP13TM which gives another RU for another FX gadget, mix one FX in stereo with MP2 loop and use 2 sends/returns on 1 RU line mixer for the other. But that's me