ADA Depot - A Forum To Support Users of ADA Amplification Gear
Miscellaneous => Discussions => Topic started by: rabidgerry on March 30, 2015, 01:52:49 AM
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So has anyone ever had to travel with their rack to another country via a plane?
I am now starting to play in other countries with my own band and I recently am just back from playing in Holland with the Belgium band Prematory. I traveled light when I went to Holland and managed to take two little power amps (Crate Power Blocks) and my Boss GT5 as well as one guitar. This was perfect as the venue was providing me with two 4 x 12" cabs and of course a drum kit for the drummer and bass amp and cab for the bassist.
Since I am looking to move toward a rack/pedal setup I have the amount of gear I will have to travel with will become a little bit larger. I have attached a pic of my proposed rig.
So it will be 3U in size and I have a flight case just like the one in the picture for them to go into. What I wanted to know specifically from anyone with experience is whether or not this is enough protection for the rack gear?
I know it's not called a flight case for nothing, but I personally do not think it's enough protection....................why? I have seen how cases are handled at airports. I know my guitar took several drops of luggage conveyor belts on my last trip and thankfully ABS plastic protected it well, however with a rack case there is no sponge or anything inside for cushioning. It's just hard gear screwed into a rack.
So if anyone has experience or tips on how to travel with rack gear on planes feel free to put all your experiences down here.
My proposed rack is:
Power Amp
ADA - MP1
ART DXR Delay
I'd also have a boss GT5 but this would be in a bag that I can take on as hand luggage. 8)
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Hey RG, no direct experience though my 8RU SKB has had it's fair share of bouncing in and out of trucks, utes (pick ups I think in the US ?) and car boots. The SKBs were made for the US military initially I think so a good rugged rack. However, what airlines do to baggage is a thing unto itself :facepalm: .
I can think of 3 choices:
Go with good quality rack (SKB are more expensive but are better than gator), put on fragile stickers and hope for the best.
Get a rack which has internal suspension/shock absorption, I saw some at a IT show where the internal rack was "floating" inside the case, looked good but not cheap. Designed for military use.
Put the rack into a larger flight case with foam around it (or similar white stuff (poly whatever it is) they use to box and shift gear, like what a new unit would have when it's sent to music store).
Cheers R
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Interesting suggestions Richard. I'm considered having the unit stuffed in a suitcase and padded by clothes or merchandise such as band tshirts etc Your ideas are also good ones. I like the last suggestion best. It guess is would come down to size cost and weight after that. Guitars are light enough despite having large cases. The rack could end up over the 20kg limit if I didn't watch what else I used to pad it.
I have lots of time to figure this out, I wont be going to other countries again until Sept/Oct/Nov so have plenty of time to figure it out.
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Suitcase with clothes etc wrapped around it would help, low cost option :thumb-up: Yeah weight/size will always be an issue, cost of doing business.
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If you manage to sell all your t-shirts (and let's hope you do) then you won't have any packing for the trip home. You'll have to stock up on more shirts for the return journey. Polystyrene cut to size is not going to add a lot of weight and it won't vary from trip to trip.
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well it's as I thought then, those flight cases aren't actually for flying so much are they?
That's also something I have done before Mike and it worked a treat, it will probably mean buying a new case though dedicated for the purpose :( the price for rock n roll eh!!
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Gerry - what Richard is talking about (the rack suspended inside another rack) is a shock mount case. Those are specifically made to be rattled. Here's a bit more information (they're not cheap, but they do protect your OLD gear ;))
4U shock mount rack from SKB (http://www.skbcases.com/music/products/proddetail.php?f=&id=532&o=&offset=&c=116&s=80)
Seems like a cheap insurance policy to make sure your stuff is okay when you get there
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Gerry - what Richard is talking about (the rack suspended inside another rack) is a shock mount case. Those are specifically made to be rattled. Here's a bit more information (they're not cheap, but they do protect your OLD gear ;))
4U shock mount rack from SKB (http://www.skbcases.com/music/products/proddetail.php?f=&id=532&o=&offset=&c=116&s=80)
Seems like a cheap insurance policy to make sure your stuff is okay when you get there
I have to say this looks amazing. I'd say the accummulative weight of my proposed rack will be about 15kg, I wonder how much extra this special case would add. Obviously this is a good idea, but I will have to factor in the cost of booking extra cases on the airlines and stuff. However this is a great thing. I don't need to go to all this trouble really but as I want to move to a mix of rack stuff and the stuff I already got I will need to consider an option like this.
I was thinking about the padding of a suitcase again, the down side to that idea would be I'd show up to the venue and have no rack to fit the gear to.
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The guitar flight cases are pretty good I think, they have lots of padding inside. The cases I've seen for Amp heads has a little (~3/4" of foam), but this is domestic chuck it in a truck.
Now is it more likely for a suitcase to not make it (get lost by airline) or a flight case ??
@Dante, those SKBs look great, though $550(ish) USD :facepalm:
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I know, they're pricey - but hey, it's insurance for your beloved old gear
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I know, they're pricey - but hey, it's insurance for your beloved old gear
I couldn't agree more!
See, what always strikes me is folks having the most expensive (Boutique kinda) gear and then counting pennies on stuff like guitar cables, cases,....
I also wouldn't go without sufficient surge protection/Power Conditioner....I always shake my head when I see monster setups/Racks/Heads and all is wired with some 3-6 outlet extention plugs like my daughter uses in her room...
Case-wise I use a SUS-4 6U shock-mount double door flight case which can sure take a beating (and def has.....)
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Some more thoughts on the Racks/Aircraft/Fly-in gigging....
I'm trying to be as objective as I can while being as subjective as everyone would be ;)
My Rig (Furman PL-Plus, Triaxis, MPX-G2, 2:90 > SUS4 6U Shockmount Case) is ~50kg. Add another ~10kg for the R1 Floorboard incl an extra Rocktron Hex Expr-pedal, all in a tailor-made flight-case as well....
I can easily put it into my BMW Compact (plus a 2x12 or 2 1x12s and 2 guitars) and haul it around, no probs.
But with Air travel luggage weight limitations ( commonly ~20kg for checked-in luggage plus 6-8kg for carry-on/cabin) I'm way too far down the road with my rig.
Only once for a couple of out-of-area gigs were we allowed to bring whatever we wanted at no extra cost. We even got our own HCU-6/E air cargo pallet for our stuff exclusively...that was the exception and just a tiny bit of a Flight666 feeling for all of us....
My usual and normal approach for fly-in gigs is to check out with probable bands that also gig there what backline is avlbl and might be shared/used.
Common systems (that I came across) are Marshall DSL/TSL/JVM410s, Boogie Rectos, Engl Fireball/Powerball...
I had to ask myself "Do I really need my complete rack?" for a fly-in gig? Will the folks in that club/bar/open air/... really notice me for my signature sound/personlized gear? Imagine yourself in the first or second row listening to a band.... If the band sounds good and puts on a show I'm golden.
Do you need your personal complete setup for the band to sound good as band? I doubt that.
I started with a Boss GT-8 to be hooked up 4cm for Fly-In gigs...pre-programmed at home and then only slightly tweaked to fit the local environment at sound/line check.
For the last couple I only used a tiny board with a Mooer OD, Mooer Chorus and 2 Mooer Dly pedals (all those tiny really good sounding pedals)...did the job and was 4kg tops.
Over time I now know how to dial in lots of amps to get a tone/sound that makes me feel as comfy as possible while making the band sound as a whole.
Domestic gigs still get the full 60+kg of personal subjective tonal comfort zone though ;)
Just my 2 cents...
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^^ That's good advice.
Yes, you would LIKE to have YOUR signature tones for every gig, but really...who's gonna know that you don't have the EXACT tone in a full band situation? Nobody but you.
I have a saying that I use when I can't have everything I want, but I'm gonna make due with what I got: It's good enough for who it's for. That meaning, if my trademark 'classic rock' tone is not exactly there, it's good enough for a bar full of people screaming 'FREEBIRD!' :lol:
We had a gig last summer at a big festival. 20 stages, hundreds of bands. We had a tiny stage in a comedy club and a one-hour-window for setup, teardown, and playing. Needless to say, we had to be portable and quick to get ~40 minutes of music crammed in there. They had a very crappy backline of a drum kit with dented heads and dusty cymbals, an old Fender Bass combo amp, and an old Fender Guitar combo amp. I brought my 2u rig with the MP-2 and my Boss FX unit and hoped for the best. The tones were a bit tinny at first (Damn Fender Amps!) but, I turned the highs all the way down and darkened my room presence on the MP-2 and it was good enough for who it was for.
We played two nights with one hour slotted for each one. Before we played the second night, the club owner felt compelled to tell the crowd (as we were setting up) that 'you are about to see the best band at the festival this year - this is the one you don't wanna miss' We were dumbfounded. But, looking around, there were very few bands that really put on a show. Most were just standing there, we like to get the crowd involved (we're all wireless, and the singer likes to disappear in the crowd). Good times.
The point being, you can't always bring the two halfstacks, but sometimes you can get by with a really versatile multi f/x unit. I still have an old Boss ME-5 from the early 80s in a case for a 'backup of a backup' because you just never know.
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Done quite a few of these myself LOL, it's all in the fingers in the end, you can get a sound out of most things and adapt. That said, it's nice to have your sounds (if you can), at least preamp & FX and midi pedal (so I recon I could make MP2 + decent multi FX work in most situations), MP1 is a little more tricky, if you have say GCS-3 in loop, then it opens the direct option.
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I know, they're pricey - but hey, it's insurance for your beloved old gear
I couldn't agree more!
See, what always strikes me is folks having the most expensive (Boutique kinda) gear and then counting pennies on stuff like guitar cables, cases,....
I also wouldn't go without sufficient surge protection/Power Conditioner....I always shake my head when I see monster setups/Racks/Heads and all is wired with some 3-6 outlet extention plugs like my daughter uses in her room...
Case-wise I use a SUS-4 6U shock-mount double door flight case which can sure take a beating (and def has.....)
well that case costs as much as probably my whole rack (the 3units) or at least close to it. It also looks huge. I wouldn't say I'm skimping out or counting pennies, but I'm being practical about cost. I do not own a BMW or even a car for that matter. My proposed rig is not that large, I still think it's reasonable to think I can get that on a plane for a reasonable price. I save pennies on cables by buying proper noiseless cable with 2 seperate screens, 1 Tubed thermoplastic conductive carbon layer and then usual earth wire sheild, I buy the cable what ever length I need and some Rean jacks and make the cables myself. Costs way less than a bullshit planet waves cable or monster cable.
I just wondered whether so called flight cases would be enough as they have no padding to absorb the shocks and bumps from being taken on and off a plane and I was interested to see if people have actually traveled with these on a plane before without any issues. If the answer is the fight case with suspension at $550 I will have to think of somethign else.
^^ That's good advice.
Yes, you would LIKE to have YOUR signature tones for every gig, but really...who's gonna know that you don't have the EXACT tone in a full band situation? Nobody but you.
I have a saying that I use when I can't have everything I want, but I'm gonna make due with what I got: It's good enough for who it's for. That meaning, if my trademark 'classic rock' tone is not exactly there, it's good enough for a bar full of people screaming 'FREEBIRD!' :lol:
We had a gig last summer at a big festival. 20 stages, hundreds of bands. We had a tiny stage in a comedy club and a one-hour-window for setup, teardown, and playing. Needless to say, we had to be portable and quick to get ~40 minutes of music crammed in there. They had a very crappy backline of a drum kit with dented heads and dusty cymbals, an old Fender Bass combo amp, and an old Fender Guitar combo amp. I brought my 2u rig with the MP-2 and my Boss FX unit and hoped for the best. The tones were a bit tinny at first (Damn Fender Amps!) but, I turned the highs all the way down and darkened my room presence on the MP-2 and it was good enough for who it was for.
We played two nights with one hour slotted for each one. Before we played the second night, the club owner felt compelled to tell the crowd (as we were setting up) that 'you are about to see the best band at the festival this year - this is the one you don't wanna miss' We were dumbfounded. But, looking around, there were very few bands that really put on a show. Most were just standing there, we like to get the crowd involved (we're all wireless, and the singer likes to disappear in the crowd). Good times.
The point being, you can't always bring the two halfstacks, but sometimes you can get by with a really versatile multi f/x unit. I still have an old Boss ME-5 from the early 80s in a case for a 'backup of a backup' because you just never know.
true I agree, but my rig is not that big, I want to build my tone around it and I believe I can get it from country to country. It is important to me to have a signature tone while I am away from home, more so than when I am at home. Why? Because the people in the coiuntries I visit are more imprtant to me than home fans. Why? Heavy Metal is bigger in other countries than where I live so to become bigger in Greece or Germany is a bigger deal than being big in Ireland even if it's amazing to finally be appreciated by our home fans after the early years or rejection. Sure the home following is great but for my band to progress we need to gain the fans abroad, and when those fans hear me playing I want them to hear my signature tone. I may have to comprimise sure I know that and indeed I always do when I use cabs that are not the sort I use normally (nearly every gig I play now).
I totally understand the points being made here but then I am not asking for a ridiculously large set up to be taken ever where with me.
I think I'm very aware of the impracticality of tying to take a large rig flying, but then I don't have that problem because I'm not trying to take multiple heads or 6u racks with me.
My proposed rig is tiny!! 3u and an Mfx unit? That's nothing surely.
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Gerry,
I hear ya. I'm torn between the idea that the rack would cost as much as (or more than) the gear inside, but then I remember this:
I bought a second MP-2 as a backup, because this gear is old and not to be trusted...have a backup. Well, the 2nd MP-2 never did sound the same as the first. I'm not technical by any means, so I can't tell you if anything had been modified inside, but I do know that I used the same tubes and the same settings, but never got that 2nd one to sound the same. It sounded good...but it wasn't the same. I traded it for a very nice guitar with a former member of the Depot, Randall Haney (R.I.P.)
Anyway...back to the point...if you like the sound of the gear you have, do NOT take for granted that you will be able to capture that sound with 'identical' gear. I'm not willing to take any chances, I'll protect it...but I'm only using 2 rack spaces, much more affordable. Cheap insurance in my mind (the price of decent combo amp - or a backup guitar).
You'll notice (in the pix below), I have no shock mount cases of my own (I don't fly with my rig, but if I did....)
If I were forced to fly with my rack, I'd take the 2u rack & use their backline. I have my pedals, cables, and mics in an old suitcase that nobody would want to steal (it cost me $6 at the thrift store, I bought two - have a backup). The amp shown is my Boogie DC-5 (50w 1x12). Just add guitars :banana-guitar:
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Gerry,
I hear ya. I'm torn between the idea that the rack would cost as much as (or more than) the gear inside, but then I remember this:
I bought a second MP-2 as a backup, because this gear is old and not to be trusted...have a backup. Well, the 2nd MP-2 never did sound the same as the first. I'm not technical by any means, so I can't tell you if anything had been modified inside, but I do know that I used the same tubes and the same settings, but never got that 2nd one to sound the same. It sounded good...but it wasn't the same. I traded it for a very nice guitar with a former member of the Depot, Randall Haney (R.I.P.)
Anyway...back to the point...if you like the sound of the gear you have, do NOT take for granted that you will be able to capture that sound with 'identical' gear. I'm not willing to take any chances, I'll protect it...but I'm only using 2 rack spaces, much more affordable. Cheap insurance in my mind (the price of decent combo amp - or a backup guitar).
You'll notice (in the pix below), I have no shock mount cases of my own (I don't fly with my rig, but if I did....)
If I were forced to fly with my rack, I'd take the 2u rack & use their backline. I have my pedals, cables, and mics in an old suitcase that nobody would want to steal (it cost me $6 at the thrift store, I bought two - have a backup). The amp shown is my Boogie DC-5 (50w 1x12). Just add guitars :banana-guitar:
yeah I have actually experienced this with ADA mp1 already haha my first one sounded like crap! I sold it and now I have a standard and the 3TM. I will be absolutley honest, I haven't even implemented either into a live rig yet. I've tried and got nothing but feedback, but we'll talk about that in another thread possibly :facepalm:
Anyways so I have a 3 rack case, just like yours, ABS, no shock mount. If you went on a plane would you take it just as it is in the ABS case? I know it would be fine in there, but it's the vibrations I'm worried about shaking internal components.
Dante, do you still use the GX700?
I took my GT5 in a bag that it fits into perfectly and all my cabels went into that. So if I were to travel on plane I would take my 3 unit rack (one way or another), a guitar, MFX in bag with cables. I always use other bands backline. That is the nature of playing these days, well certainly in my experience. I always use others cabs. Some good, some fizzy crap!!
There is certainly a lot to think about here. I get that I may never be able to totally take my signature tone everywhere or recreate exactly the sound but it's worth getting close I feel. I suppose a large part comes from the guitar really and the playing. I wonder could I take a 3U rack in as hand luggage? ???
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I still use the GX-700, in fact I have two (have a backup)
If i had to fly, I'd probably carry my guitars as carry-on luggage and buy a better rack. I don't think anything would happen to the SKB roto rack I have, but the preamp has been through a lot and is fragile in my mind.
If you have flight cases for your guitars, yeah, take the 3u rack on as carry-on luggage :thumb-up:
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I still use the GX-700, in fact I have two (have a backup)
If i had to fly, I'd probably carry my guitars as carry-on luggage and buy a better rack. I don't think anything would happen to the SKB roto rack I have, but the preamp has been through a lot and is fragile in my mind.
If you have flight cases for your guitars, yeah, take the 3u rack on as carry-on luggage :thumb-up:
I'd probably only ever take one guitar abroad with me. They go into the hold no probs in an ABS flight case. Wonder could I get the 3U on as hand luggage hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm means I could just book a case for clothes etc
I'll be in Holland and Germany and may be Belgium towards the end of the year for a few days at a time so it will be interesting to see if I can get the desired stuff with me when I do travel.
What way do you run your GX700 with your mp1?
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Cabin baggage allowance is 55cm x 40cm x 20cm, 6-8kg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hand_luggage (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hand_luggage)
Hit me up for the German dates....I´ll come around and say hello ;-)
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Cabin baggage allowance is 55cm x 40cm x 20cm, 6-8kg
Hit me up for the German dates....I´ll come around and say hello ;-)
shit! No rack as hand luggage then :( it will weight 15-17kg)
Yeah man I'll let you know the cities we are playing in. I can't remeber where at the moment since it's not until November. It may be too far from where you live though.
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Look up Wilhelmshaven in Germany and add a radius of 250km
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Look up Wilhelmshaven in Germany and add a radius of 250km
Ahh near the top. My Brother lives in Bremen. You may be able to go after all then I think we wont be that far away.
You'd travel 250km to go watch an Irish Heavy Metal band :) that's very good of you ;) Hopefully we get some new fan out there. We have had good German reviews so far so I think Germans might like us.
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Look up Wilhelmshaven in Germany and add a radius of 250km
Ahh near the top. My Brother lives in Bremen. You may be able to go after all then I think we wont be that far away.
You'd travel 250km to go watch an Irish Heavy Metal band :) that's very good of you ;) Hopefully we get some new fan out there. We have had good German reviews so far so I think Germans might like us.
...for partying with the Irish?!? Sure!!! ...been there, done that, got the T-Shirt 8) 8)
(http://i992.photobucket.com/albums/af41/MagnusBausW/4F236087-0932-4622-BFB3-28E66776A3EC_zpsakihjye3.jpg)
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Any idea where you will be playing in Belgium?
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Look up Wilhelmshaven in Germany and add a radius of 250km
Ahh near the top. My Brother lives in Bremen. You may be able to go after all then I think we wont be that far away.
You'd travel 250km to go watch an Irish Heavy Metal band :) that's very good of you ;) Hopefully we get some new fan out there. We have had good German reviews so far so I think Germans might like us.
...for partying with the Irish?!? Sure!!! ...been there, done that, got the T-Shirt 8) 8)
(http://i992.photobucket.com/albums/af41/MagnusBausW/4F236087-0932-4622-BFB3-28E66776A3EC_zpsakihjye3.jpg)
where did you find that lol? you been hanging out with IRA members?
Any idea where you will be playing in Belgium?
Hey Marshall, not sure if Belgium is 100% yet but when I find out more I will of course let you know. Our manager has mentioned it but it's going to come down to finance and time off work. We played with Belgium band Prematory in Holland a few weeks back. Good band but very generic for all their talent. Not enough character.
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Look up Wilhelmshaven in Germany and add a radius of 250km
Ahh near the top. My Brother lives in Bremen. You may be able to go after all then I think we wont be that far away.
You'd travel 250km to go watch an Irish Heavy Metal band :) that's very good of you ;) Hopefully we get some new fan out there. We have had good German reviews so far so I think Germans might like us.
...for partying with the Irish?!? Sure!!! ...been there, done that, got the T-Shirt 8) 8)
(http://i992.photobucket.com/albums/af41/MagnusBausW/4F236087-0932-4622-BFB3-28E66776A3EC_zpsakihjye3.jpg)
where did you find that lol? you been hanging out with IRA members?
...
Naa, got it "down range" from some "co-workers" we used to party with on a regular basis ;)
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that's good for me!! Let hope when I get to Germany and I play, and you can actually make the show, I will not be to tired to party!! :banana-trip:
yeah sometimes when I play and carry all the shit back of stage I just want to shower and go to bed! Anyone else get that?
Na I should be in party mode SC :banana-rasta:
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If your gig up in northern Germany is within my AO I can bring my Triaxis/2:90 rig and set it up for you to play with/use
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What way do you run your GX700 with your mp1?
I run the 4-cable method - which I'll explain later, as my rig is still in the back of my Jeep from the gig last night. I came home, put the guitars away, took a shower and went to bed. I'll unpack it and explain how it's routed. No worries
If your gig up in northern Germany is within my AO I can bring my Triaxis/2:90 rig and set it up for you to play with/use
Not THAT ^^ Sounds like an offer you can't refuse!
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Well from SC's audio clip of triaxis sounds like a good thing to use :thumb-up: .
You could go the direct cab emulated option (less dependencies on various cabs, and poweramp not required), although I still like pumping out the volume.
I recon the perfect rig would be 3RU/4RU MP2, Multi FX (in MP2 stereo parallel loop, power amp (Carvin DCM200 = 1RU), light, perfect LOL and MXC peddel. Oh that's almost my rig LOL.... except I use the Carvin TS100 (weighs just a little less than Date's car LOL).
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If your gig up in northern Germany is within my AO I can bring my Triaxis/2:90 rig and set it up for you to play with/use
That's very kind of you and much appreciated, but then it would be a waste to have taken my rack all the way over, and I will need that for the Birmingham show with Satan (the band) on the way back :???:
Do you use your mp1 with the Triaxis?
I have just remembered something as well, I think we are driving over!!!!! We will be getting on a proper bus, us and two other bands. I must get more details on the travel arrangements. If we are driving there will be less worry about getting the rack on a bus. Still the need for this thread is still relevant as I am flying to Holland for sure, no bus that time.
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What way do you run your GX700 with your mp1?
I run the 4-cable method - which I'll explain later, as my rig is still in the back of my Jeep from the gig last night. I came home, put the guitars away, took a shower and went to bed. I'll unpack it and explain how it's routed. No worries
I don't quite run mine 4 cable method. I run guitar into GT5, then effects send into the MP1 then output from the MP1 into the effects return on GT5 then the outputs into what ever I am using to hear sound with (either multi track or power amp).
explain the 4 cabel method using your mp1 when you get a chance my man :) I'd appreciate it :bow:
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Hey RG, the 4 cable method (confused me to when I first read it here on the depot also) is basically MP1/2 L/R out into stereo FX gadget L/R out into stereo power amp (so uses 4 cables to chain between preamp > FX > amp). This is fine if the FX has true analogue pass through (some of the early ones have) but IMHO not a great way to patch say a TC GMaj as the first thing it does is AD the signal (so there goes your analogue out the window...). Some care more about this than others and there's quite a few posts about it (mostly an issue with MP1/3TM as MP2 has stereo parallel FX loop, i.e. problem solved (for one FX unit)). I use a desk and make it like a PA setup. SC gets good results chaining things together.
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Pls no serial AD/DA vs parallel discussion.... Question was 4cm :thumb-up: :thumb-up:
The 4-cable-method allows you to use any given external preamp as a "block" or integrated preamp in FX- or Multi-Units that have "open"/free programmable chains....so you can place "your preamp" at whatever spot you want in the signal chain which allows for a very effective (no pun intended 8) ) FX routing, e.g. allowing you to place one of the "virtual" stomp boxes in the GX700 (DS1, Flanger, Wah) in front of the external preamp and other FX (Chrs, Dly, Rev,....) after it.
Units that support this are e.g. GX700, GT6/8/10/100/Pro, Lexicon MPX-G2, Digitech GSP1101, Roland GP-100,....
The basic setup is (using the GX700)...
Guitar > GX700 in > GX700 Send > MP-1 in > MP-1 Send > GX700 Return > GX700 Out > MP-1 Return > MP-1 out > Poweramp
Some more in-depth: http://www.seymourduncan.com/blog/the-tone-garage/get-wired-four-cable-method/ (http://www.seymourduncan.com/blog/the-tone-garage/get-wired-four-cable-method/)
Some sights and sounds:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JpmbEcYfEZI
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Hey SC, thanks for the link, this (as I understand it) is not what Dante does or most of posts that say they use 4CM do (@ Dante, please correct me if I'm wrong), I asked the question ages ago (I'd never heard of it so asked what's 4CM), the answer was what I descibed below, not what is in the article (which makes more sense, basically inserting your guitar preamp into various parts of the multi FX). So your MP1/2 becomes an inserted stomp box/distortion pedal but you can move that around in the signal chain.
I simplified the whole thing right from the start and used a small desk and run it like I run any PA combining FX via the aux/FX sends. Wah is probably the only thing I'd want before tube stage (which is how the MP2 signal chain works), back in MP1 days, I didn't need/want wah so it wasn't an issue, I rarely use it these days, but if you want wah, IMHO it's better before the gain stage (tube or SS).
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Hey SC, thanks for the link, this (as I understand it) is not what Dante does or most of posts that say they use 4CM do (@ Dante, please correct me if I'm wrong), I asked the question ages ago (I'd never heard of it so asked what's 4CM), the answer was what I descibed below, not what is in the article (which makes more sense, basically inserting your guitar preamp into various parts of the multi FX). So your MP1/2 becomes an inserted stomp box/distortion pedal but you can move that around in the signal chain.
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Exactly...but a tad bit more than "just" a stomp.... The Units I mentioned (GX700, GP100, GT-x, AxeFx, MPX-G2, GSP1101,G-Force, G-System....) all have "open" FX-chains that let you place any FX wherever in the chain you wanna have them....
The AxeFx and the MPX-G2 also allow for series or parallel routing as well as a Stomp-Box mode (basically what you can do with the FCB1010 /Uno SW).
So basically, the 4cm allows me to place FX (-chains) around my core (Pre-)Amp to my gusto. When using Parallel in the MPX-G2 the signal is True-Bypass (hardwired) and I can mix in whatever I want....I actually have some presets using series and parallel as the OD Fx in the MPX-G2 are pure analog circuits.
Philosophy and taste related I also like to place certain FX besides the obvious OD, Wah and Comp in front of the preamp....try a Flanger or a Phaser (especially on Clean sounds) up front....imho better than later in the chain...
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Yeah take your point, I've not had an issue having flange just in the multi FX (and it can be stereo there) but always enjoyed my MXR Phase 45 and Memory Man delay up front. I'm all for versatility, there are so many ways to combine things (as long as you keep the gain structure right).
I've never played more simply than I do now. I use a little shortish stereo delay and some reverb and a Warm Vintage 5 MP2 patch. I use the volume pedal (stereo master) in MP2 to pick level, and I roll volume knobs down/up to clean/dirty the tone (never done that before LOL). Kind of back to my roots I spose.
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Pls no serial AD/DA vs parallel discussion.... Question was 4cm :thumb-up: :thumb-up:
The 4-cable-method allows you to use any given external preamp as a "block" or integrated preamp in FX- or Multi-Units that have "open"/free programmable chains....so you can place "your preamp" at whatever spot you want in the signal chain which allows for a very effective (no pun intended 8) ) FX routing, e.g. allowing you to place one of the "virtual" stomp boxes in the GX700 (DS1, Flanger, Wah) in front of the external preamp and other FX (Chrs, Dly, Rev,....) after it.
Units that support this are e.g. GX700, GT6/8/10/100/Pro, Lexicon MPX-G2, Digitech GSP1101, Roland GP-100,....
The basic setup is (using the GX700)...
Guitar > GX700 in > GX700 Send > MP-1 in > MP-1 Send > GX700 Return > GX700 Out > MP-1 Return > MP-1 out > Poweramp
Some more in-depth: http://www.seymourduncan.com/blog/the-tone-garage/get-wired-four-cable-method/ (http://www.seymourduncan.com/blog/the-tone-garage/get-wired-four-cable-method/)
see I run mine a different way and I get shit loads of noise. So I was going to try the official 4 cable method.
The way I run it does allow it to be shifted about like a seperate block in the chain.
Guitar > Boss input > Boss send to ADA MP1 input > MP1 output to Boss Return > Boss outputs to what ever I want (Power amp or Multitrack).
The official 4 cable method does not allow for stereo signal because the MP1 effects loop is mono where as my way allows for stereo output. If I did 4 cable all the stereo effects of the boss would turn into mono.
4 cable is this right? And yes I need Stereo with everything!! I will never ever go back to mono.
Guitar > Boss input > Boss send to ADA MP1 input > MP1 Send to Boss Return > Boss Output to MP1 Return
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Your way is spot on for stereo operations, no worries....you might wanna track down the noise issue though....
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Your way is spot on for stereo operations, no worries....you might wanna track down the noise issue though....
SC you have been hanging about Irish people too much. That is something we'd say "spot on" ;D
@SC I just find the unit noisey well the 3tm more so than the regular ADA MP1. I had MJMP helping me this quite a bit. I ended up having to turn the guitar input on the boss down quite a bit. Normally I am meant to set the boss guitar input in such away that the clip LED comes on when I play hardest but not to frequently. So now I have it quite low and the clip light is never ever gonna come on. This helped with the noise a bit, but I still cannot use the 3tm past like 6 on the OD1+2 settings (and yes I have adjusted the trim pots accordingly so they light briefly). Perhaps this is normal. I'll let you hear it. I have also discovered my trem springs need muffled on a particular guitar because the are causing the noise reduction effect to not close fast enough as they still ring out after I mute strings and this comes through the pickups ever so slightly.
On my Live setup I've used the MP1 (regular version) exactly the same as I do direct recording only at the end I run into power amps rather than a multitrack. But I just get crazy feedback. And yes of course I have noise reduction on. I just use the boss noise reduction right after the Loop block (which contains the MP1). This is why I have not started to use the MP1 live yet because I haven't got it working properly yet.
Mu main goal is to use both MP1 ans Boss preamps and also have the flexibility of having the OD module on the boss in front of either of those premaps because the are analogue and give great extra gain stage sounds. Obviously with 3TM I don't need to do that. 3tm will remain in the studio though until I can crack things with MP1 regular in a live setup. May be I'm playing to loud lol
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Ok, here we go....
The (pre)amps just "amplify" what is fed into them...more gain > more of the noise gets amplified.
Try placing the Noise Gate earlier in the chain, that should help some.
I don´t know in particular about the GT5, but normally there is some kinda steps to set a "unity gain" when using 4cm or the likes.
Easiest way to figure out: Hook up Guitar>MP-1>amp and set it up so you have to most favorable "sound-to-noise ratio" (trimpot adjust etc....). Once that sounds boss, maybe do a db-meter (phone-app) recording or a recording into your multitrack/daw or just save a mental note on that sound.
Now hook everything up 4cm (or your way of that) but put all FX off/stby and now adjust the GT5 levels (input/send/output/....) to match (as close as) that sound you got before (Gtr>Mp-1).
Put the Noise gate first (since you dan´t want any noise to get amplified....) and work your way up step-by-step/fx-by-fx until it sounds good.....
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see I run mine a different way and I get shit loads of noise. So I was going to try the official 4 cable method.
The way I run it does allow it to be shifted about like a seperate block in the chain.
Guitar > Boss input > Boss send to ADA MP1 input > MP1 output to Boss Return > Boss outputs to what ever I want (Power amp or Multitrack).
The official 4 cable method does not allow for stereo signal because the MP1 effects loop is mono where as my way allows for stereo output. If I did 4 cable all the stereo effects of the boss would turn into mono.
4 cable is this right? And yes I need Stereo with everything!! I will never ever go back to mono.
Guitar > Boss input > Boss send to ADA MP1 input > MP1 Send to Boss Return > Boss Output to MP1 Return
I run things a little different to be able to have everything in stereo and that is by using the RJM Mini Line Mixer.
As you can see in the attachment I plug in the the input of the MPX-G2 > the FX Send to go in the input of the MP1 >send and return of the loop in the MP1 to ad the Rane MPE 28 EQ >>> then I separate things in two:
a) I use the MP1 outputs to have a stereo output that includes an effect added before the MP1 and I plug that to the dry channels of the RJM Mini Line Mixer
b) AND THEN (this is something I develop thanks to this forum) I use the MP1 headphone out to send a the stereo signal to the Returns of the MPX-G2. All the effects running in this part are 100% WET and go to other channels in the RJM Mini Line Mixer
So to finish it off I go from the outputs of the mixer to stereo poweramps and speaker cab (but for now I only run it in mono because I need the other poweramp).
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Ok, here we go....
The (pre)amps just "amplify" what is fed into them...more gain > more of the noise gets amplified.
Try placing the Noise Gate earlier in the chain, that should help some.
I don´t know in particular about the GT5, but normally there is some kinda steps to set a "unity gain" when using 4cm or the likes.
Easiest way to figure out: Hook up Guitar>MP-1>amp and set it up so you have to most favorable "sound-to-noise ratio" (trimpot adjust etc....). Once that sounds boss, maybe do a db-meter (phone-app) recording or a recording into your multitrack/daw or just save a mental note on that sound.
Now hook everything up 4cm (or your way of that) but put all FX off/stby and now adjust the GT5 levels (input/send/output/....) to match (as close as) that sound you got before (Gtr>Mp-1).
Put the Noise gate first (since you dan´t want any noise to get amplified....) and work your way up step-by-step/fx-by-fx until it sounds good.....
Done this before but I'll try it again. I keep getting paranoid like it's the guitars I'm using etc but they are fine with the boss and 50ish on the noise reduction is sufficient enough.
The GT5 has a send level that's it. However in all honesty, I never need to mess with it because the level coming out is pretty much the exact same as the guitar until say I put an over drive on which would then feed into the MP1. I level match on my Boss the whole way through the chain so nothing is ever above 70% of their meter. I'll try your suggestion anyways.
I run things a little different to be able to have everything in stereo and that is by using the RJM Mini Line Mixer.
As you can see in the attachment I plug in the the input of the MPX-G2 > the FX Send to go in the input of the MP1 >send and return of the loop in the MP1 to ad the Rane MPE 28 EQ >>> then I separate things in two:
a) I use the MP1 outputs to have a stereo output that includes an effect added before the MP1 and I plug that to the dry channels of the RJM Mini Line Mixer
b) AND THEN (this is something I develop thanks to this forum) I use the MP1 headphone out to send a the stereo signal to the Returns of the MPX-G2. All the effects running in this part are 100% WET and go to other channels in the RJM Mini Line Mixer
So to finish it off I go from the outputs of the mixer to stereo poweramps and speaker cab (but for now I only run it in mono because I need the other poweramp).
this sounds like a great idea man, I could never have a set up like this though, 15mins to get on and off stage usually at gigs, I wouldn't have time for all that cabling. It just about make it now with the setup I use currently. I know Richard uses a mixer also but I could never in a million years see me start to drag a mixer about with me as part of my rig. I shouldn't have to if I got the noise issues sorted. @El Chiguete do you bring all your stuff to gigs? I mean use that exact setup for every show you play?
guitar > Boss GT5 > Control pedal > 2 x Power amps > 2 4 x 12" (one either side of the stage)
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@El Chiguete do you bring all your stuff to gigs? I mean use that exact setup for every show you play?
To be honest I dont play as often as I would like live (sadly) and I havent done it with this rig yet, but when everything is set up and connected inside in the rack all that I should do is to connect the rack to the speaker cab and then connect the floor controller to the rack and I should be ready to go :banana:
PS:
I should be doing some extra experimentation to add even further flexibillity to this setup but thats for a future thread when I finish that idea.
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@SC hey how can we chat on the MPX-G2 (Faceb**k, Whatsapp, Skype,... you tell me)? I want to ask some questions on how you use set some settings.
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going drastically off topic here, but @SC, I seem to have a patch using the 3TM 'er at relatively high settings (od1 7.5 od2 8) and it's to noisey and it behaves with about 50% of the threshold on the noise reduction which is good (anything past 60 eats into the tone). I'll record a clip tonight for assessment. So not sure how I came up with that patch and it's not as noisey as others. So perhaps I'm winning after all. Made that patch up a while ago and forgot about it.
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Ah with gain comes noise LOL, try a '70s Marshall at full tilt, an impressive beast to attempt to control. Particularly with single coil PUs (oh no not fluorescent lights (buzz humm click squeal)) >:D .
SCs suggestions are the way to go (on the money :wave: ) , get the MP1 working Guit and (loud) amp. Sort out any suspect leads/connections. It should sound great! (why we like them) and without any NR. Then bring in the GT5 and adjust so there is no overall level increase (they idea of unity gain, what goes in volts wise is what comes out volts wise albeit modified in tone/freq etc). If the noise is not lead/connector related, then it's definitely gain structure (IMHO). You might try the GT5 gains (internally) at 90 rather than 70 (keep the signal above the noise floor as much as you can but keep a little headroom). And careful how you drive the MP1 input, it's designed for a guitar signal, unless you have the un-modded line input on the back, which likes a line level signal (this is an option to try BTW and turn/set the GT5 send to line level).
Using a mixer, is a way to go and has got a little easier (though haven't bought one yet), my desk is velcro'd to the bottom of my 8RU SKB, so not a big hassle, stays patched etc but not great for planes LOL. There are a couple of 1RU line mixer options that look ok, I'd like more aux/FX sends than they have, but compact. I'm thinking a 4RU rack, MP2, Quadverb, Mixer, Carvin DCM200 although I could run the Quadverb in the MP2 loop.
Hey El, glad the headphone out worked for you :whoohoo!: way to go :thumb-up:
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Done this before but I'll try it again. I keep getting paranoid like it's the guitars I'm using etc but they are fine with the boss and 50ish on the noise reduction is sufficient enough.
The GT5 has a send level that's it. However in all honesty, I never need to mess with it because the level coming out is pretty much the exact same as the guitar until say I put an over drive on which would then feed into the MP1. I level match on my Boss the whole way through the chain so nothing is ever above 70% of their meter. I'll try your suggestion anyways.
sorry just requoting myself Richard lol
Of course with more gain comes noise, but it has to be usable with a large percentage of that gain other wise what is the point in having a 3TM ??? I've had the MP1s by themselves (nothing external or attached) and they aren't a great deal better, need noise reduction big time. All my cables are noiseless with dual shields, I made them myself using decent cable (cause it's way cheaper to do so). By process of elimination it's the MP1 that brings the noise, because everything was manageable before I got it. Keeping the input gain down on the Boss seems to have helped, not sure if that was the correct thing to do though (the guitar input on the boss that is which is the very first thing in the chain and controled by a trim pot.)
But from the post I did before I accidentally discovered I had a patch already created using quite a lot of gain but with a noise level that was workable with NR threshold at about 50%. This has the MP1 in boss loop, so I can modify to my hearts content on the boss whilst having the 3TM as my amp/drive sound/distortion sound. I have been using it with an external speaker sim and selecting a JBL d120 and d130 speaker impulses.
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Hey RG, it has to be useful or why bother, and great that you've a usable patch on the 3TM :thumb-up: .
From my experience, Guit > MP1 (factory patch 1 Marshall)> stereo poweramp > cabs loud (cranked) should sound great and not need any NR (this is not a 3TM however >:D I've not had/used one). MP2 has more gain than MP1 so I needed a little NR on the high gain patches (threshold 17 - 25 ish). So if above is noisy (Guit, MP1, Amp, Cabs), there maybe other issues to sus ? just a thought.
Lowering the GT5 input gain is a band aid (IMO), what that's doing is reducing the send level to MP1 so it's not being over driven (it wants a direct guitar signal not a GT5 send). Try using the back line in (if you have one in one of your MP1s) and bring the GT5 input back up (as all else (in GT5) depends on it being good level). Anyway my thoughts :wave:
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Never thought of that Richard.
However when I lower the ACTUAL send level out of the loop the noise is still there and of course the distortion reduces with the mp1 because the signal coming in is much lower and not driving as much.
So yeah I have just lowered the input gain on the boss that accepts the guitar signal and has a clipping light etc.
You can use an MP1 with no noise reduction? What gain settings? I find this incredible. No noise? You have to be exagerating man. My 3TM has noise mod and everything and it's still noisey. Surely there is hiss or some shit noise in there?
If I plug in my MP1 (the unmodded one) and use a medium gain setting I have noise.
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Hey RG, Have a listen to Rev Rock clip I put in MP1 Audio Clips, that's my old MP1 (now MikeBs), Guit > MP1 > Mixer/Quadverb/IPS33 Smart Shift > B200s > Stereo Cab, and totally live ( a pair of SM57s), That patch is the MP1 106 in the MP1 patches I posted and cranked >:D (hey, there was a drummer in the room LOL). No noise issues (no NR), lots of gain.
3TM is a different animal, there's an extra tube and I've never played with one so I leave that to the high gain heads/guys here... even with noise mod it's going to have more noise (as more gain). I don't think any 3TMers don't use NR, from the posts I've read.
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..., That patch is the MP1 106 in the MP1 patches I posted and cranked >:D (hey, there was a drummer in the room LOL). No noise issues (no NR), lots of gain.
I don't find patch 106 in this list you posted http://adadepot.com/index.php?topic=754.0
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Hey RG, Have a listen to Rev Rock clip I put in MP1 Audio Clips, that's my old MP1 (now MikeBs), Guit > MP1 > Mixer/Quadverb/IPS33 Smart Shift > B200s > Stereo Cab, and totally live ( a pair of SM57s), That patch is the MP1 106 in the MP1 patches I posted and cranked >:D (hey, there was a drummer in the room LOL). No noise issues (no NR), lots of gain.
3TM is a different animal, there's an extra tube and I've never played with one so I leave that to the high gain heads/guys here... even with noise mod it's going to have more noise (as more gain). I don't think any 3TMers don't use NR, from the posts I've read.
where is it man I can't find he clip?
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Hey El sorry, Idom't seem to have wruitten that one down.. may bummer, it's my fav..
# Voice OD1 OD2 M B M T P Ch D R
103 DT 3.8 3.4 4.5 9 6 6 10 100 0.0
109 DT 8.5 8.0 8.0 4 -6 0 0 100 0.0
107 DT 3.8 6.5 6.5 9 2 2 4 100 0.0
102 DT 6.0 5.0 5.5 6 4 -2 8 100 0.0
Clean
100 CT 4.8 3.2 7.0 4 -8 6 12 10 1.7
101 CT 4.8 3.6 7.5 4 -8 6 12 10 1.7
Try 107 (very similar IIRC) but bigger stereo delay (250 <>500ms) (and a touch of flange) for 106 (if anything turn things down to get toward 106)
Hey RG, file attached my freind.
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wauw nice sound,are you sure this is your mp-1 and not your marshall >:D
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Hey RG, file attached my freind.
sounds great man, good song as well. So how much post production did you add after EQ etc? And be honest :nono:
So yeah give me some settings to try right and let me know then if I should have noise or no noise with the MP1.
I was playing about last night and I dialed out more on the 3TM, obviously sounded better in regards to noise but is it still a hi gain sound???? Sometimes I forget how much gain I'm using. I shall post a clip later when I get a chance to record. I think quite a bit of crap gets through with the trebel on the EQ of the MP1. I had it at 9 and lowered it to 4, sounded way better. Kept the presence and also selected a suitable speaker sound.
Perhaps this discussion needs to into a different thread?
Have we completely finished up on the planes and racks topic? Well anyone who comes across this who has anything to add about their rack and traveling on a plane with it please post your experience on here :)
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Hey glad you like it :wave: .
Very straight forward, it's Anderson (ultrasonics PUs) > MP1 > IPS 33 Smart shift/Alesis Quadverb (on mixer aux sends/return down channels) > ADA B200s > stereo (rewired Yamaha (with a plessey 12U50 on each side (as 2 of the Yamaha speakers were blown))) cab (quad box). 2 x SM57s>>>. Whole track is live. No post production, recorded live to 2 ch DAT. I dubbed to reasonable quality cassette at the time (no PC digital recording back then), then later sampled into pro tools 48k 24bit from cassette (by then DAT tapes lost .. :facepalm: not my fault). No post production, not even eq, nothing.. then Bounce to AIF, convert to crapp highest qual MP3 my codecs can do, is what I've attached, and what you get to hear. And there was a real drummer in the room LOL, this was all at stage level volumes (i.e. loud), it was just a jam.... I kind of wrote years ago just playing at parties...
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The guitar rig sounds simple enough but the recording setup is wild sounding.
Sounds great man. Still dunno how you had no noise. I mean No noise with clean channel is fine, but medium gain with any piece of kit I expect a bit of hiss at the very least.
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The mix was really simple, I think he used a Soundcraft Spirit desk and maybe a delay for Vox and spx 90 rev for kit ?? (I'll ask and see if he remembers). Very good audio engineer my mate Rich Muecke... Probably makes it sound easy (which it was LOL).
I'm a bit bemused by the noise issue stuff. I never had any issues with the MP1. Yeah it was a bit "hot" but easy to control (but remember I grew up with 1970's Marshalls squealing like banshees at full crank LOL). I suspect it's gain structure related, not only is that rig relatively straight forward, the gain structure was solid (much easier when using small mixer and aux/FX sends in my experience). But also I'm not trying to combine tubes (which have a much better/wider dynamic range than transistors) into a SS send return loop. The MP1 is the main (only) tone and I just put/mix some FXs on it and feed it to the cabs. I'd describe that patch I used as upper medium high gain in MP1 terms.
I thought about (the noise thing) is it because MP1's are getting older... Well MikeBs (that MP1, and a very early one) is still going strong and worked a great at the gig last Saturday (not that he wails quite like me, but definitely no noise issues, and we were cranked >:D ), he did bust a D string though LOL, hey good time for speeches LOL.
I think the common thread (my thought bubble) is you get issues combining MP1 in SS loops, because the tubes have such a big dynamic range and the SS circuits aren't designed to cope so you get more noise.
If I were you I'd build a 6 RU rack MP1, MP13TM, GT5 (but FX only) or a better decent multi FX device, 1RU line mixer, 1RU Carvin DCM200 (or the one you were scoping (but adds colour, DCM200 wont add colour)). Or even better MP2 and loose MP1/ MP13TM which gives another RU for another FX gadget, mix one FX in stereo with MP2 loop and use 2 sends/returns on 1 RU line mixer for the other. But that's me :wave:
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I still find that weird about no noise. MP1 in all the reading I did before I got one had or has the reputation for being a noisy preamp. And in my mind I guess that's why someone came up with the noise mod. Sorry if this incorrect. That's just what I had read while researching the unit that is one of the noisiest.
Anyways your doing well if you get no noise on a patch like that. Perhaps my mains electric introduces more noise than yours who knows.
When I finally build my rack it's gonna be like Dante's and no bigger. I don't have a truck and a bunch of roadies lol
MP1 > ART 425dxr > Power Amp with Boss GT5 as fx and preamp on the floor
I have a GX700 like Dante's and if I ever feel like it I can use it in the rack instead of the GT5 on the floor. Basically the same unit in rack form with it's analogue drive section and digital preamp.
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Well the mp-1 isn't that noisy on medium gain settings (OD's 5.0 and below).And it sounds nice,it's when you go above it comes noisy and the sound becomes muddy.
Now the best way to test how noisy your mp-1 is to pull out the guitar cable at the input.The noise you now hear is noise generated by the mp-1 it self.If you plug back in ,the additional noise you hear is comming from the cable and/or the PU's.
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The patch I used for Reverends Rock would have been close to:
# Voice OD1 OD2 M B M T P Ch D R
107 DT 3.8 6.5 6.5 9 2 2 4 100 0.0 (lead)
103 DT 3.8 3.4 4.5 9 6 6 10 100 0.0 (rhythm)
IIRC I used 106 which I posted somewhere here for most of the track. 107 is a slightly louder version with shorter delay
But even with my loudest/biggest MP1 lead patch:
109 DT 8.5 8.0 8.0 4 -6 0 0 100 0.0 (which took a bit more to control >:D ), I didn't get too much noise. BTW that was a stock (very early) unit and no mods and I think the original tubes.
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Just adding details to this as it's changed from when I last travelled.
For handiness when I played my last gig (in Germany) I took a tiny two rack case. In the case I got a Koch ATR 4502 and Boss GX700. Within that I used the Ibanez TK999HT which is a high voltage Tube distortion pedal/preamp. This went in the loop using very short patch cables and say on the top of the 2U rack case. The TK99HT by itself is nice but I needed that extra layer so then I used a light boost from Boss GX700 analogue overdrive. This give me the tone I was after. Then I had an EQ pedal and Rocktron Silencer pedal run after that and back into the return of the GX700. This was a very small setup. Out front I used a behringer expression pedal to control the volume and also an behringer ab200 to move down patches and also to turn my boost on for solos. I sacrificed one pedal for the boost option, so that left me with only downward patch control. Why? Because having control of the boost was more important than changing patches during the set. It meant I had to at one point walk over to the rig and move back up a patch once through the entire set but for the rest of it I could switch down a patch. Since I was using the GX700 to it's full non midi potential using only the expression pedal output and the control pedal output it only meant I could program three choices so that was my choices.
Volume, Down a patch and Boost on/off.
The boost varied from patch to patch but was always involving turning volume up a bit. Some patches I turned Delay on, and Chorus off, other patches I just turned volume up. Was a great setup and I can't emphasis how goo the Ibanez TK999HT is. Very amp like, lots of tube like response, lots of harmonics. If you ever get to try one, do so, as I think many would like it on here. It does a lot in one box! It also has a built in noise gate that really helps with the feedback at high volume!