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Author Topic: Mod 3TM tube swap  (Read 273 times)

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herbyguitar

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Mod 3TM tube swap
« on: Time Format »

I've done some preamp tube switching in very high gain amps with good results. My last switch was in a Carvin V3m. This amp has a ridiculous amount of gain. I switched V1 with a 12AT7 and V2 with a 12AY7. I still had plenty of gain for any style of music. I'm wondering about the 3TM mod and how a tube swap would affect it. I'm getting ready to do a 3TM and MDRT mod and was curious as to how much gain it will have at max. My thinking is to reduce the amount of gain enough so the clean tube side will be more usable for cleaner tube sounds but still have enough in reserve for heavier songs. The stock MP1 has enough gain for me but it suffers from a muddy tone when the gain is too high. The 3TM is supposed to eliminate this problem, hence my reasoning for doing the mod.
Has anyone done this or have any thoughts on this?
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rnolan

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Re: Mod 3TM tube swap
« Reply #1 on: Time Format »

Hey herby, as in my other reply, go the SS Mod tube board, you don't want a 3TM IMHO.  The 3TM adds 2 more gain stages and to try to tame it with 12AT7s seems silly,  (and the Y in a 12AY7 = why  :dunno: , they are not great tubes for audio).  The tube circuits in the ADA preamps are designed (and eq'd (tube voicings)) around 12AX7s, and while a 12AT7 will work, it's a higher current tube (makes a great phase splitter in a tube poweramp  :thumb-up: ) and will put higher demand on the transformer (though the MDRT would cope).
The MDRT will really open the unit up, nice tight and more dynamic (and less muddy).
Also if you go 3TM, you'll then need to put noise gates (ideally before and after the unit) to tame the gain/noise/squeals, even more so with single coil strat PUPs.
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Studio Rig: MP2/MB1 > Eurorack UB2442FX-Pro > TC M-One XL > Behringer Truths (with Truth Sub) / QUAD ESL 63s
Live Rig: MP2/MB1 > Alesis Quadverb > Alesis Midiverb 4 > Yamaha AM802 > B200s/Carvin TS100/DCM200L > ADA Split Stacks/Mesa P112s

herbyguitar

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Re: Mod 3TM tube swap
« Reply #2 on: Time Format »

@ rnolan: Wow. I have been doing a lot of reading here but haven't come across anything that lays it all out in one (two) place(s) like you do here and in your other post. You may have saved me from making a mistake. thank you.

I was looking into the Mullard Long plates yesterday. Sounds like what I'm looking for. Your input is very much appreciated.

If I could describe the amount of gain I want I'd say (old) EVH and YJM would be the most I'd want. These types of ODs aren't over the top but they do have a lot of harmonic content.

Right now I'm running a gate after the (stock V2, 2.01) MP1 using my 1101 with good results. By running the 1101 after the MP1 I lose all the up front effects like the tube screamer and comp but the gate works much better in the back. I can retain all the volume knob roll off for cleaning the guitar up. Putting it anywhere else kills it.

I'm getting the best results by running OD1 @ 10 and OD2 @ 4. I found OD1 is tighter sounding than OD2 and I can run it maxed. These settings are right on the edge of becoming too loose in the bottom end. Running OD2 @ 5 gives me more gain but it starts slipping into mud.

I've been in touch with MJMP about the 3TM and MDRT mods... Hope MJMP doesn't get upset with me for altering my order...
« Last Edit: Time Format by herbyguitar »
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MarshallJMP

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Re: Mod 3TM tube swap
« Reply #3 on: Time Format »

Hey Herby

No worries about changing the order, but if you want to go the EVH YJM route I think the 3TM will be better for you. I send you a YT link so you can check out the 3TM soundwise. So take your time and after you make a decision you let me know. And if you have any questions just let me know or post them here.
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herbyguitar

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Re: Mod 3TM tube swap
« Reply #4 on: Time Format »

@ MarshallJMP : I'm worried about the noise and whether I would actually use that much gain. I'm thinking a cranked tube power amp will go a long way in complementing the MP1. More than likely the SS would serve my purpose.

@ rnolan : I found a post of yours. What's your take on this tube choice?
Svetlana V1
Mullard V2
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rnolan

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Re: Mod 3TM tube swap
« Reply #5 on: Time Format »

Hey Herby, that would work quite well I suspect (but I havn't tried it).  Also a JJ in V1 followed by the Mullard in V2 would work well.  MikeB runs a JJ (Boogie STR) in V1 followed by a Mullard short plate (I think he has them that way around) (http://www.dougstubes.com/preamp-tubes/12ax7-ecc83-7025/mullard-cv4004-12ax7.html) and that works really well.
The Svetlana works really well in older tube heads (that's what I herd them in) but should also work well in a MP1.

I agree with MJMP, take your time.  And a gate after is the best place to put it, but with the 3TM, it has sooo much gain that it needs a gate before and after (from what MJMP has said before), and then you loose
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Studio Rig: MP2/MB1 > Eurorack UB2442FX-Pro > TC M-One XL > Behringer Truths (with Truth Sub) / QUAD ESL 63s
Live Rig: MP2/MB1 > Alesis Quadverb > Alesis Midiverb 4 > Yamaha AM802 > B200s/Carvin TS100/DCM200L > ADA Split Stacks/Mesa P112s

MarshallJMP

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Re: Mod 3TM tube swap
« Reply #6 on: Time Format »

Well if you use the same amount of gain the 3TM is actually more quiet then the SS mod. But it's your decision to make.
BTW did you look at the YT vids?
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herbyguitar

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Re: Mod 3TM tube swap
« Reply #7 on: Time Format »

@ rnolan : I was going to try 2 Mullard long plate in both slots. I have JJs here already but I'm trying to squeeze a little more musicability (is that a word? :nono:) from the MP1. Would there be any benefit OR drawback to using 2 long plate Mullards?

@ MJMP : Yes. I did go through the vids. It really doesn't sound like there's a ton of gain coming from any of the clips. They all do sound tighter. My MP1 sounds different than all of those clips. My MP1 has a slight gnarly bite to it that I really like. The notes really bloom nicely (I may have to thank the power amp for that though). Am I going to lose this with a mod?

Gees... I hate being a noob...
« Last Edit: Time Format by herbyguitar »
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rnolan

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Re: Mod 3TM tube swap
« Reply #8 on: Time Format »

Hey Herby, you won't be a noob for long  :thumb-up: .  There's allot to take in, particularly around here, we are fortunate enough to have many ideas and opinions from people who like to play and experiment and share  :whoohoo!: .

Try 2 Mld LPs and hear/see what you think (it's exactly what I would do but I'm "trying" to be a bit neutral  O:-) , I love the Mld LPs  >:D , but that's in an MP2 (which BTW has shitloads more gain than a MP1, and quinsiquantly a built in noise gate (at the tail end) coz then you need it.  Now I like the idea of 3 tubes (2 more gain stages (there's 2 gain stages in each tube (12AX7s are twin triode, triode = a gain stage)) but then you loose the cleans  :facepalm: . It would be good if you had the choice to switch the extra tube in (by voice, or patch).

Thinking about it (apart from trying some different tubes (and Mld LPs are a good choice IMHO), I'd do the MDRT and the noise mod first and hear/see what you think.  Also play around with JJs and Mld LPs in different slots (V1/V2) they both bring different things to the sound pallet (eg the JJs' probably have the best feedback sound I've ever experienced and with the Mld LPs, every slight change in your fretting pressure is audible. The Mld Lps will make it more 3D and musical, the MDRT will open the unit up and make it less "muddy", the noise mod will reduce noise, particularly on higher gain settings.  Then decide on tube board ?  If you want more gain.. go 3TM, Mike went for a stock tube board (from MLMP) just with the new parts (new PCB, gold plated tube sockets, orange drop caps etc) and it sounds great  :whoohoo!: . (@MikeB an opinion would be useful here LoL).
Now the bloom thing, if you are using a B200s (right ?) then it's all in the preamp so you shouldn't loose it, but it will faithfully represent your MP1's tone.

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Studio Rig: MP2/MB1 > Eurorack UB2442FX-Pro > TC M-One XL > Behringer Truths (with Truth Sub) / QUAD ESL 63s
Live Rig: MP2/MB1 > Alesis Quadverb > Alesis Midiverb 4 > Yamaha AM802 > B200s/Carvin TS100/DCM200L > ADA Split Stacks/Mesa P112s

MarshallJMP

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Re: Mod 3TM tube swap
« Reply #9 on: Time Format »

The 3TM sounds tighter if you are looking for that. Also the 3TM has actually 2 distortion voicings, the tube distortion and the tube clean which isn't clean anymore but turns into a brown channel so for cleans you need to use the SS clean. Also the 3TM has 2 small trimpots where you can fine tune the bass and treble, a sort of set and forget setting.

The SS mod retains the original sound but makes it better, but it will not be so tight sounding.

So I guess it's up to you to make the decision.

BTW the 3TM only has one extra gain stage, the second one is cathode follower for the tonestack (trimpots) and doesn't add gain.
« Last Edit: Time Format by MarshallJMP »
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