ADA Depot - A Forum To Support Users of ADA Amplification Gear
ADA Preamps => Original MP-1 => Topic started by: jgd on September 15, 2016, 03:45:17 AM
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Hi there,
I recently purchased a MP 1.
Second hand ofcourse (duh...), so I don't know which tubes it has.
There's nothing on them, literally, no letters or logo.
I bought JJ's, high gain.
And you know what, they had less gain than the anonymous ones.
They original two sound more aggressive or something.
Tonewise, Im aiming for metal, roughly old-school Metallica tone.
What were the original tubes anyhow?
What kinda tubes do you guys (or gals) prefere and for what genre?
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Hi jgd,
The tubes in your MP-1 are more than likely, the original Chinese 12AX7A's that were shipped with the unit.
My personal preference for tubes here are good quality Mullard RI's. Mullards bring out good clarity in the midrange and upper midrange frequency, and they also have a good tight low end response. Of course right now, I'm still rolling different tubes in mine to see if there is something better to my ears.
I like a lot of different styles of music, and like to play as many different ones that I can, so I need an amp that can handle that. ADA fits the bill. My favorites are Classic Rock, 70's, 80's, Jazz Rock, Fusion, Blues, Progressive Rock, Progressive Metal, Art Rock, need I go on?
You may want to look into Ruby Tubes. Many people say they are very good quality. I have those in my 3TM now, and they aren't bad at all. I'll probably roll a set of the same tubes in the MP-1 to see how well they perform there. All the preamp tubes I use are long plate tubes to keep the low end in the mix.
Harley 8)
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Hey jgd, have a (long LoL) read here Tubes (preamp/Input/Buffer) (http://adadepot.com/index.php?board=38.0)
Lots of good discussion. SC recons that TADs are closest to the original Chinese tube they came with (which were great tubes BTW) Like Harley I'm a fan of the new sensor Mullard long plate reissues (in my MP2s). MikeB runs a Mullard short plate in V1 and a Boogie SPAX7 (probably a JJ) in V2. They don't have to be the same brand. Anyway, they are all different, some more different than others.
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Do a search for Tube Cocktail, there's what I ended up with in my ol' MP-1
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Mine still had the original Chinese tubes after all these years, I recently installed some old Amperex tubes but honestly don't think they sound a lot different to my ears....
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Just swapped the tubes in my MP-1 a few months ago. Went with Mullard RI's (got a matched set, high gain, with balanced triodes) and they really gave my amp some balls.
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TAD 7025 Highgrade tubes work very well within my MP-1.
As rnolan wrote, very similar to original chinese 12AX7A tubes with little more "balls", meaning punch and bass definition.
Very good choice, indeed.
I've the original MP-1 12AX7A tubes (no brand) and they still are in very good health...I would preserve them and then I swapped them with the TADs.
I've a couple of 5751 Philips tubes I want to test and I'm going to buy a couple of JJ ECC83s.
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Man the tube area for me is going down a rabbit hole for sure, but I will take that journey eventually.
My number one Holy Grail MP-1 as I call it, has the original tubes in it and it roars! Yet another MP-1 we purchased had the stock tubes and it sounded dead. We popped a new set of JJs ECC83s and it really came to life :o :dunno: My buddy and I have done this to a few of the units we have gotten and it really seems to be a "per unit" issue.
I would love to try the Mullards that rnolan has mentioned and see if I can get more of a universal consistency between units if that's even possible.
And I'll have to try short plate vs. long plate too. :thumb-up:
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Hey DjC, a rabbit hole it is LoL. One of the very interesting things is how the MP-1/2 circuits react to different tubes. Obviously they were designed around the original Chinese bottles, which are great tubes and very fit for purpose.
All my MP2s' (I have 4, and they all sound different even with the same tubes) have Mullard Longs plates in them, I was completely gobsmacked how they transformed the MP-2 (but they are very (very) articulate and show off every nuance of your playing (good and not so good :facepalm: , hasn't bothered me but it's a consideration for MP-2 owners). MikeB said the Mullard short plate is similar in this respect BTW.
In the MP-1, I found the Boogie SPAX7s (JJs ??) work very well. MikeB has gone for Mullard short plate in V1 and SPAX7 (JJ) in V2 of his MP-1. This combo (I know from what my ears tell me) sounds good.
I've recently acquired a couple of MP-1s (the US version one works so far... I'll definitely try the Mullard long plates in it(them)..
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Also, keep in mind that everyone's rig is different. Tone is subjective too, so what works well for me may not be your favorite. Trust your ears
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I've recently acquired a couple of MP-1s (the US version one works so far... I'll definitely try the Mullard long plates in it(them)..
Do it ASAP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :thumb-up:
I'm still trying to decide...JJs...Mullards....JJs......Mullards........ :lol:
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Well put 1 JJ and mullard in it and your problem is solved ;D
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Well put 1 JJ and mullard in it and your problem is solved ;D
Then I will enter in a loop swapping V1 and V2 forever... :facepalm:
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;D but at least you will have 2 tubes running in your mp-1 ::)
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;D but at least you will have 2 tubes running in your mp-1 ::)
But I will die by electrocution, having rolled tubes on and on with the MP-1 powered up! :waving-banana-smiley-emoticon
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I did not try mullards yet, but tung-sol are really nice for my mp2. Sounds clear, aggressive, defined, precise. The mesa tube sounded muddier, smoother, tamed... more mids... I think some could hear them as richer sounding.
This video might help you hear the differences between tubes (at least tungsol, jj and mesa) - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MMeCNjkEaeM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MMeCNjkEaeM)
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Hey DjC, a rabbit hole it is LoL. One of the very interesting things is how the MP-1/2 circuits react to different tubes. Obviously they were designed around the original Chinese bottles, which are great tubes and very fit for purpose.
All my MP2s' (I have 4, and they all sound different even with the same tubes) have Mullard Longs plates in them, I was completely gobsmacked how they transformed the MP-2 (but they are very (very) articulate and show off every nuance of your playing (good and not so good :facepalm: , hasn't bothered me but it's a consideration for MP-2 owners). MikeB said the Mullard short plate is similar in this respect BTW.
In the MP-1, I found the Boogie SPAX7s (JJs ??) work very well. MikeB has gone for Mullard short plate in V1 and SPAX7 (JJ) in V2 of his MP-1. This combo (I know from what my ears tell me) sounds good.
I've recently acquired a couple of MP-1s (the US version one works so far... I'll definitely try the Mullard long plates in it(them)..
Yeah it surprised me how much different tubes affected various MP-1 ones - very much a mystery to me for sure!!
You have me very interested in trying the Mullard long plates - just gotta hear how this affects the overall tone. However I'm sure they will react differently in different units but still curious. :thumb-up:
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Well we/you can talk about it forever or just buy a pair of Mullard LPs and see/hear what you think (~$50). I'll put my neck on the line and say you won't hate them, are they what you want ? will they blow you away (as they did me) :dunno: . You may find they are too articulate for you and show up your mistakes too much :dunno: (though I doubt it with you 2 LoL).
What I wouldn't advise is Boogie SPAX7s (JJs SPs) in an MP-2, they are fine except they fart (my experience with them) on the bottom E (which is unfortunate as they have the best feedback mmm).
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I did not try mullards yet, but tung-sol are really nice for my mp2. Sounds clear, aggressive, defined, precise. The mesa tube sounded muddier, smoother, tamed... more mids... I think some could hear them as richer sounding.
This video might help you hear the differences between tubes (at least tungsol, jj and mesa) - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MMeCNjkEaeM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MMeCNjkEaeM)
Wowowowowowow!
I love the JJs alone there....but with bass and drums the TungSols are winners!
Mesa tubes have too much compression and muddy mids.
Even if it would be nice to see amp settings for each tubes test...
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Well we/you can talk about it forever or just buy a pair of Mullard LPs and see/hear what you think (~$50). I'll put my neck on the line and say you won't hate them, are they what you want ? will they blow you away (as they did me) :dunno: . You may find they are too articulate for you and show up your mistakes too much :dunno: (though I doubt it with you 2 LoL).
What I wouldn't advise is Boogie SPAX7s (JJs SPs) in an MP-2, they are fine except they fart (my experience with them) on the bottom E (which is unfortunate as they have the best feedback mmm).
Yeah articulate is what I love, which forces you become a better player ;D
And I'm not really procrastinating, I locked every word you have said rnolan and advice in my noodle ;D it's just that I have bought even more gear and I'm getting my "complete" rack system together then I will make little tone tweaks here and there. :thumb-up:
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From personal experience, Mullard RI's in the MP-1 are a great choice. I've had both the re-issues and a pair of NOS Mullards in mine and the difference between the two are like night and day. The original Mullards make the MP-1 ROAR, and you can hear everything in your playing, but they are super-expensive these days.
The re-issues can make the MP-1 come to life a lot more, the clarity is greatly improved without losing anything when you overdrive it. The only trouble with the re-issues I've found is how long will they last?
Currently in my Mp-1, I have JJ ECC803's in it. They're not too bad, but I haven't really sat down to experiment enough with them to be able to give a good review at this time. I will be getting to that in the not too distant future, ( I hope), and I'll post specific reviews on each type of tube I'm trying out and in which preamp.
I can say without a doubt that in my 3TM Mp-1, I have a set of Ruby Tubes 12AX7AC7 HG's and they are SMOKIN'!!! I'll be ordering another pair of those to try in the original MP-1 as they might be close to the original Chinese tubes that were in it.
On the list to audition in my preamps are:
Tung-Sol Gold pin 12AX7's
Genalex Gold Lion 12AX7's
It should prove interesting
Harley 8)
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From personal experience, Mullard RI's in the MP-1 are a great choice. I've had both the re-issues and a pair of NOS Mullards in mine and the difference between the two are like night and day. The original Mullards make the MP-1 ROAR, and you can hear everything in your playing, but they are super-expensive these days.
The re-issues can make the MP-1 come to life a lot more, the clarity is greatly improved without losing anything when you overdrive it. The only trouble with the re-issues I've found is how long will they last?
Currently in my Mp-1, I have JJ ECC803's in it. They're not too bad, but I haven't really sat down to experiment enough with them to be able to give a good review at this time. I will be getting to that in the not too distant future, ( I hope), and I'll post specific reviews on each type of tube I'm trying out and in which preamp.
I can say without a doubt that in my 3TM Mp-1, I have a set of Ruby Tubes 12AX7AC7 HG's and they are SMOKIN'!!! I'll be ordering another pair of those to try in the original MP-1 as they might be close to the original Chinese tubes that were in it.
On the list to audition in my preamps are:
Tung-Sol Gold pin 12AX7's
Genalex Gold Lion 12AX7's
It should prove interesting
Harley 8)
Awesome, more good tube info here Harley, thanks for sharing!!!
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That's why we're here Danny :thumb-up:
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Mmm might try a set of those AC7's in my 3TM
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Mmm might try a set of those AC7's in my 3TM
I kind of like what I'm getting from the 3TM with those, but I still have a lot of experimenting to do with that preamp. I haven't had a lot of time or opportunity to sit down with it and do the kind of tweaking I need to do with that and the MP-1. My intention is to use them both in one system. The 3TM for certain lead tones, and the MP-1 for everything else, but that may change. Kind of like my Classic and MP-2 rigs. I was doing the same thing there, but decided each rig had it's own merits for both rhythm and lead tones.
Harley 8)
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About tubes rolling, I've done some other test yesterday.
At the moment, the couple I love more in my MP-1 is a TAD 7025 HG in V1 and an original chinese 12AX7A in V2.
I've tested the following combinations:
-1 V1 = TAD 7025s HG V2 = TAD 7025 HG
-2 V1 = TAD 7025 HG V2 = TAD 7025s HG
-3 V1 = TungSol 12AX7 V2 = TAD 7025 HG
-4 V1 = TAD 7025 HG V2 = TungSol 12AX7
-5 V1 = TungSol 12AX7 V2 = TAD 7025 HG
-6 V1 = TAD 7025 HG V2 = TungSol 12AX7
-7 V1 = TAD 7025s HG V2 = original chinese 12AX7A
-8 V1 = TAD 7025 HG V2 = original chinese 12AX7A
Results:
-1 nice combination, good gain, typical MP-1 tone but a little bit noisy and with slighlty gummy basses
-2 better than the above, same gain, less noise and with firm and thick basses
-3 not so exciting...I don't like the TungSol 12AX7 in rack units...they tend to be flat and harsh, a little less gain
-4 not so exciting...I don't like the TungSol 12AX7 in rack units...they tend to be flat and harsh, a little less gain
-5 not so exciting...I don't like the TungSol 12AX7 in rack units...they tend to be flat and harsh, a little less gain
-6 not so exciting...I don't like the TungSol 12AX7 in rack units...they tend to be flat and harsh, a little less gain
-7 very good combination...very good gain...but with slighlty gummy basses (I assume this is the TAD 7025s with high gain)
-8 the best combination: very good gain, low noise, firm and thick basses, articulated cleans
Since original tubes have more than 20 years and I don't know how much they have been used, I'm not sure I can rely on them.
I will buy a couple of TAD 12AX7A-C (RT001) to be tested in V1 and V2 as SC suggested and for V2 , to be combined with the TAD 7025 in V1.
TAD suggests this combination as well:
http://www.tubeampdoctor.com/en/shop_TAD_Premium_Tubes_TAD_Pre_Amp_Tubes_SELECTED/12AX7A_C_ECC83_TAD_Premium_Selected_7025_12AX7WA_E83CC_391
But I will buy tubes from Banzai, since they cost a lot less...
http://www.banzaimusic.com/TAD-12AX7A-C-ECC83.html
I will buy Ruby's JJs from Banzai as well:
http://www.banzaimusic.com/Ruby-Tubes-12AX7ACZ-H.G.-TESLA-JJ.html
I want to try them! :banana-upsidedown:
@rnolan: did you tested Mullard RI LPs on your MP-1 yet? Do you love them there as in MP-2? I would love to test them, buy they would cost 50 to 64 euros for a couple...and I would be sure that it really worth a try in MP-1... :thumb-up:
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I am changing that list of tubes to try out, the new list is:
Jan Philips 12AX7WA
Ruby Tubes 12AX7AC7 HG+
Ruby Tubes 12AX7AC5 HG+
Why?
Because the 12AX7AC5 HG+ is also marketed as TAD 7025 S, and as Gold Lion Standard Pin 12AX7.
The other reason is because both of the HG+ tubes are match for the V1 slot in the preamp, and this could be the missing element in my case.
The Jan Philips tubes are something I want to try out in the Classic, possibly the MP-2 as well.
Harley 8)
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At the moment I'm going for:
1) Ruby's 12AX7ACZ H.G. TESLA/JJ
2) TAD 12AX7A-C / ECC83 (RT001)
3) maybe a couple of TungSol 12AX7, since I didn't tested 2 of them in MP-1 yet
I'm very, very curious about the Mullard RI LPs...but a couple of them would cost as 2 Ruby's + 2 TADs...and if in the end I will not like them... :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm:
Did someone tested those Mullards in a MP-1 for long time?
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Hey Max, I haven't had a chance to try the LPs in MP-1 myself yet, both SC and Harley have. Harley likes them IIRC but had some issues with their longevity (not been a problem for me in MP-2 which is a much higher gain preamp than MP-1). You can get them here (http://tubeaudio.com.au/mullard-12ax7) for $30AUD (~ 22 Euros).
Lately I've been playing bass with the band and mostly using the MB-1 in my studio rack (but a couple of loud plays with my live (hybrid MP-2/MB-1) rack. The MB-1 in my live rack has LPs in it >:D , as does my first (original) MP-2 (actually all my (4) MP-2s have LPs :thumb-up: ). Mike has been using my live rig a rehearsals as his GMaj2 blew a fuse (and then a replacement fuse). IMO MP-2 is a better preamp than MP-1 (recently reinforced by listening to Mike playing through it, direct comparison, and I played a couple of songs on guitar last night (until the neighbors knocked on the door :facepalm: ).
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Hey Max,
I've had a few Mullard RI's in my MP-1, Groove Tubes, (12AX7M), and the New Sensor Mullards, and found the New Sensor to not have as much punch as the GTs. I have found a pair of NOS Mullards, made in Great Britain, but they are very expensive. I am considering it though, since the MP-1 really came to life with those GTs in it.
Harley 8)
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Hey Max,
I've had a few Mullard RI's in my MP-1, Groove Tubes, (12AX7M), and the New Sensor Mullards, and found the New Sensor to not have as much punch as the GTs. I have found a pair of NOS Mullards, made in Great Britain, but they are very expensive. I am considering it though, since the MP-1 really came to life with those GTs in it.
Harley 8)
I had a couple of 7025/12AX7A GT Tubes in my previous, old 1.38 MP-1 many years ago.
I bought it from a friend who replaced original tubes with some chinese PM tubes...
They were not so bad, but GTs were better.
So, you prefer GTs to Mullards RI in MP-1?
I've some more results from my tests...
1) TAD 7025 Highgrade in V1 is a real WINNER: very good gain, punch, low noise, firm basses and very good overall detail
2) TungSol 12AX7 is not so bad in V2 combined with TAD 7025 in V1, but is not so good in V1...less gain and flat tone...
3) TAD 7025s Highgrade in V2 has very good gain and low noise, but basses are too "gummy" and confused, specially with high gain settings (I paid about 20 euros for it some years ago...and now TAD sells that tube for more than 50 euros... :facepalm:)
4) a 5751 in V2, combined with TAD 7025 in V1, is a very good solution...good tones....but slightly less gain, of course
5) the chinese tube from the Zoom 9150 looks like original MP-1 tubes but it doesn't have the same sound and tone...similar, ok...but not the same at all
6) the best combination is still the TAD 7025 in V1 with an original 12AX7A chinese tube in V2: very good gain, not so noisy, very detailed sound, perfect basses, thick 3-D sound
I cannot wait to test a TAD 12AX7A-C in V2...
About NOS Mullards...an average price is 180-200 euros for 2 of them... :facepalm:
Too much, IMHO.
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Hey Max, I haven't had a chance to try the LPs in MP-1 myself yet, both SC and Harley have. Harley likes them IIRC but had some issues with their longevity (not been a problem for me in MP-2 which is a much higher gain preamp than MP-1). You can get them here (http://tubeaudio.com.au/mullard-12ax7) for $30AUD (~ 22 Euros).
Lately I've been playing bass with the band and mostly using the MB-1 in my studio rack (but a couple of loud plays with my live (hybrid MP-2/MB-1) rack. The MB-1 in my live rack has LPs in it >:D , as does my first (original) MP-2 (actually all my (4) MP-2s have LPs :thumb-up: ). Mike has been using my live rig a rehearsals as his GMaj2 blew a fuse (and then a replacement fuse). IMO MP-2 is a better preamp than MP-1 (recently reinforced by listening to Mike playing through it, direct comparison, and I played a couple of songs on guitar last night (until the neighbors knocked on the door :facepalm: ).
Eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeh....too easy mate... :lol: :lol: :lol:
I'm waiting for YOUR opinion about those Mullards inside a MP-1... :banana:
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Hey Max,
The Penta 12AX7 tubes I have in my Classic are also known as Groove Tubes 12AX7-C, and Ruby Tubes 12AX7AC5 HG. THey are high gain tubes but not good for V1 position. I am having microphonic issues with a couple of the higher gain programs with these tubes. These are better off in the V2 slot.
I can see why you are having an issue with the TAD 7025 S in the V2 slot, that is a V1 graded tube. Try that tube in V1 with any one of the tubes I mentioned above in V2, and I think you'll find the tone you want. If you are looking for a more Metal type of tone, then you may want to use the Ruby 12AX7ACZ HG in V2. This is a re-branded JJ ECC83, and this has the highest gain of all 12AX7 tubes.
This is why I am going for the Ruby 12AX7AC7HG+, it's the exact same tube as the TAD 7025 S, and I'm thinking I need to put this in V1 on my 3TM. The current 12AX7AC7 HG's I have in V2 and V3 are not graded for V1, so they should be fine.
As for the GT Mullards....Groove Tubes is not the same company it was when Aspen Pittman owned the company. Since Fender bought the company from him, the quality of tubes for any other amp other than Fender has not been a priority it seems. Sometimes, they get a good batch of tubes, and sometimes not so good. It's hit and miss with them these days. The GT Mullards I once had in my MP-1 was before the sale of the company. I may give them another go, but I think I;m going to be using the Mullards only in the V2 slots in all my preamps. I'll be using the graded tubes in my V1 slots and those will either be the 12AX7AC5 HG+, or the 12AX7AC& HG+, depending on the preamp.
Harley 8)
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Hey Max,
The Penta 12AX7 tubes I have in my Classic are also known as Groove Tubes 12AX7-C, and Ruby Tubes 12AX7AC5 HG. THey are high gain tubes but not good for V1 position. I am having microphonic issues with a couple of the higher gain programs with these tubes. These are better off in the V2 slot.
Hay Harley,
You mean this tube:
http://www.banzaimusic.com/Ruby-Tubes-12AX7AC5-HG-PLUS.html (http://www.banzaimusic.com/Ruby-Tubes-12AX7AC5-HG-PLUS.html)
Is this the same as this TAD tube?
http://www.banzaimusic.com/TAD-12AX7A-C-ECC83.html
(http://www.banzaimusic.com/TAD-12AX7A-C-ECC83.html)
http://www.tubeampdoctor.com/en/shop_TAD_Premium_Tubes_TAD_Pre_Amp_Tubes_SELECTED/12AX7A_C_ECC83_TAD_Premium_Selected_7025_12AX7WA_E83CC_391 (http://www.tubeampdoctor.com/en/shop_TAD_Premium_Tubes_TAD_Pre_Amp_Tubes_SELECTED/12AX7A_C_ECC83_TAD_Premium_Selected_7025_12AX7WA_E83CC_391)
I can see why you are having an issue with the TAD 7025 S in the V2 slot, that is a V1 graded tube. Try that tube in V1 with any one of the tubes I mentioned above in V2, and I think you'll find the tone you want. If you are looking for a more Metal type of tone, then you may want to use the Ruby 12AX7ACZ HG in V2. This is a re-branded JJ ECC83, and this has the highest gain of all 12AX7 tubes.
Yep.
I'm going to use my 7025s and 7025 TAD tubes for V1 only in my MP-1, from now on. :lol:
I've to say I love the 7025 there, but I'll run more testing with the 7025s as well.
About the Ruby 12AX7ACZ HG, I'm going to buy a couple of them: this is the tube MJMP uses in his own MP-1s and I WANT to try it!
I will do tests with Ruby's JJs in V1 and V2 and then in V2 combined with TADs in V1.
This is why I am going for the Ruby 12AX7AC7HG+, it's the exact same tube as the TAD 7025 S, and I'm thinking I need to put this in V1 on my 3TM. The current 12AX7AC7 HG's I have in V2 and V3 are not graded for V1, so they should be fine.
Those TAD HG tubes are great ones!
But they're too expensive now.
Sadly Banzai have not the Ruby 12AX7AC7HG+ available...
As for the GT Mullards....Groove Tubes is not the same company it was when Aspen Pittman owned the company. Since Fender bought the company from him, the quality of tubes for any other amp other than Fender has not been a priority it seems. Sometimes, they get a good batch of tubes, and sometimes not so good. It's hit and miss with them these days. The GT Mullards I once had in my MP-1 was before the sale of the company. I may give them another go, but I think I;m going to be using the Mullards only in the V2 slots in all my preamps. I'll be using the graded tubes in my V1 slots and those will either be the 12AX7AC5 HG+, or the 12AX7AC& HG+, depending on the preamp.
Harley 8)
Sadly I know.
Last tubes in my previous MP-1, as I wrote, were a couple of old GTs and those were great 7025 tubes!
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Hey Max,
I'm not sure if the two tubes you asked about are quite the same. The 12AX7A C may be a slightly different tube from the ones I did mention.
All of the Ruby Tubes with a 'plus' designation are the tubes graded for V1 position. The ones without the 'plus' are for V2.
The Ruby 12AX7AC5 High Grade tube is the Shuguang 12AX7 9th gen tube, but distributed by Magic Parts. These are a very consistently made tube, sweet sounding, and very warm. "High grade +" is one of the labels in the measuring system used by Magic Parts. It basically means the tube is best suited for the most sensitive first gain V1 spots.
Warm tones, sweet overdrive. Same as TAD 7025-S and Preferred Series 7025. The HG+ are graded for the V1 spot. The new 12AX7AC7 is the latest tube developed at the Shuguang factory for Ruby Tubes. It is the quietest of all Ruby 12AX7 type tubes, both in terms of microphonics and mechanical noise. What I find appealing about these is they have Mullard style plates in them.
Don't you just love re-labeling?
I hope this helps,
Harley 8)
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I almost forgot this one.
The JJ ECC83S / 12AX7 is perhaps the most consistently high gain of all 12AX7's. Given the gain, it is generally very low noise and microphonics. The JJ ECC83 has darker sound characteristics and great for metal and hard rock. Also known as the Groove Tubes ECC83-S and Ruby 12AX7ACZ HG. Same grade as Ruby 12AX7ACZ HG.
Harley 8)
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I found some Holland Bugle Boys in mine, but I am going to try those in my VOX. I replaced those with NOS Beijing Red Letter 12AX7s from the 80s/90s and it friggin' lit up. The clean, the dirty...just awesome.
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All of the Ruby Tubes with a 'plus' designation are the tubes graded for V1 position. The ones without the 'plus' are for V2.
This is a GREAT tip!
So I will buy one of these for V1:
http://www.banzaimusic.com/Ruby-Tubes-12AX7ACZ-H.G.-PLUS.html (http://www.banzaimusic.com/Ruby-Tubes-12AX7ACZ-H.G.-PLUS.html)
and one of these for V2:
http://www.banzaimusic.com/Ruby-Tubes-12AX7ACZ-H.G.-TESLA-JJ.html (http://www.banzaimusic.com/Ruby-Tubes-12AX7ACZ-H.G.-TESLA-JJ.html)
The Ruby 12AX7AC5 High Grade tube is the Shuguang 12AX7 9th gen tube, but distributed by Magic Parts. These are a very consistently made tube, sweet sounding, and very warm. "High grade +" is one of the labels in the measuring system used by Magic Parts. It basically means the tube is best suited for the most sensitive first gain V1 spots.
Warm tones, sweet overdrive. Same as TAD 7025-S and Preferred Series 7025. The HG+ are graded for the V1 spot. The new 12AX7AC7 is the latest tube developed at the Shuguang factory for Ruby Tubes. It is the quietest of all Ruby 12AX7 type tubes, both in terms of microphonics and mechanical noise. What I find appealing about these is they have Mullard style plates in them.
Don't you just love re-labeling?
I hope this helps,
Harley 8)
Then one of these for V1:
http://www.banzaimusic.com/Ruby-Tubes-12AX7AC5-HG-PLUS.html (http://www.banzaimusic.com/Ruby-Tubes-12AX7AC5-HG-PLUS.html)
and one of these for V2:
http://www.banzaimusic.com/TAD-12AX7A-C-ECC83.html (http://www.banzaimusic.com/TAD-12AX7A-C-ECC83.html)
You helped a lot, indeed!!! :banana-rock:
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NOS Beijing Red Letter 12AX7s from the 80s/90s and it friggin' lit up. The clean, the dirty...just awesome.
Original tubes in my MP-1.
Put a TAD 7025 in V1 and you'll hear awesome tones!
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Hey Max,
The first two tubes you indicated are going to be the ones with the highest gain, if that is what you are going for. Those seem to be the favorites among Hard Rock/Metal guitar players.
Harley 8)
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Hey Max,
The first two tubes you indicated are going to be the ones with the highest gain, if that is what you are going for. Those seem to be the favorites among Hard Rock/Metal guitar players.
Harley 8)
Yep!
I want to try the Ruby's JJ in my MP-1....but as you suggested I would buy the HG+ for V1 and the HG for V2. :thumb-up:
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NOS Beijing Red Letter 12AX7s from the 80s/90s and it friggin' lit up. The clean, the dirty...just awesome.
Original tubes in my MP-1.
Put a TAD 7025 in V1 and you'll hear awesome tones!
Hmmmmm...I will check that out.
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Well me and my buddy Jason just ordered several sets of new tubes to try out - TAD-12AX7A-C as per one of you guys on here, can't find the thread, but suggested the TADs as to the closest replica of the original Chinese tube out there...if I'm not mistaken ;D
I also read on here somewhere that MJMP changes his tubes regularly, is that correct?
I'm curious because many of you including MJMP and Richard have suggested that the gain drop I'm having in my Holy Grail still could be just a tube issue. I thought those tubes were new but come to find out that I found a receipt for them and I actually bought them clear back in April :o
So before I ship my unit to Mr. MJMP I'll try out several new tubes.
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Hey DjC, the last comment from MJMP (and I concur) is it may be power supply but then that was for all the 0s' you got on the display... decent tubes should last many years and go off very slowly. Now it seems in 3TM they burn a bit brighter ? MJMP likes to keep reasonably (less than one month old IIRC) new Ruby JJs in his 3TM (a bit like having new strings >:D ). Hey, no New Sensor Mullard long plates in your several sets of tubes :facepalm: , at least try one pair LoL.
Hey that's not to say you don't get a dud tube from time to time.
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Well me and my buddy Jason just ordered several sets of new tubes to try out - TAD-12AX7A-C as per one of you guys on here, can't find the thread, but suggested the TADs as to the closest replica of the original Chinese tube out there...if I'm not mistaken ;D
I also read on here somewhere that MJMP changes his tubes regularly, is that correct?
I'm curious because many of you including MJMP and Richard have suggested that the gain drop I'm having in my Holy Grail still could be just a tube issue. I thought those tubes were new but come to find out that I found a receipt for them and I actually bought them clear back in April :o
So before I ship my unit to Mr. MJMP I'll try out several new tubes.
Hey Dan, it is possible to get a bogus tube right out of the box, it depends who you buy them from. I got a pair of Mullard RI's that only lasted for less than 3 months from Musician's Friend. No telling how long they were sitting around there before I got them. Now I buy from Doug's Tubes in New York. Much better quality, and they are still going strong after 2 years.
Harley 8)
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Yes it's not because you buy a new tube that it can't fail.I once had a tube that lasted 3 seconds, then a high pitched sound and it was dead. So yes it can happen that they fail fast. And some tubes keeps going forever. It's still a mechanical construction that can fail. So it's not because they are new that they can't fail in short period of use.
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Hey DjC, the last comment from MJMP (and I concur) is it may be power supply but then that was for all the 0s' you got on the display... decent tubes should last many years and go off very slowly. Now it seems in 3TM they burn a bit brighter ? MJMP likes to keep reasonably (less than one month old IIRC) new Ruby JJs in his 3TM (a bit like having new strings >:D ). Hey, no New Sensor Mullard long plates in your several sets of tubes :facepalm: , at least try one pair LoL.
Hey that's not to say you don't get a dud tube from time to time.
Yep these - http://www.dougstubes.com/mullard-12ax7.html :thumb-up:
I'm looking forward to test driving all these new tubes :banana:
Also as many of you have stated on here, I have had many sets of bad tubes right out of the box. Back in 95' I ordered a whole new set of Mesa 6L6 STR 440's and two were bad, Boogie was great about returning them though. Other times I had mom & pop stores I bought from absolutely refuse to give me a refund or exchange on tubes >:( but luckily it seems places on the net are pretty easy to work with and want to make you happy so hopefully I won't have any problems. :???:
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Hey DjC, I'm looking forward to your reaction to them also :thumb-up: , I see my review is in there as well :whoohoo!: .
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Hey DjC, I'm looking forward to your reaction to them also :thumb-up: , I see my review is in there as well :whoohoo!: .
Yes I'm very curious myself Richard - I appreciate so much all of your comments and suggestions! :thumb-up:
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Hey DjC, just had a thought bubble, when you compare your MP1s do you compare the main outs of each or just still use the (mono) Fx send as your out ? I say this for 2 reasons, one there may be differences in the Fx sends (just different plug ware for example, as in I never used the Fx send/rtn in my MP1, some do, some don't) and two, the MP1 sounds so good in its "sudo" stereo using main A/B outs (again how it was designed to work (into a B200s >:D and stereo cabs >:D ).
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the MP1 sounds so good in its "sudo" stereo using main A/B outs (again how it was designed to work (into a B200s >:D and stereo cabs >:D ).
+1!!!
That's the way I love it! :thumb-up:
I compared FX send out to stereo main outs: no way, stereo mode rules!
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It's only in "pseudo" stereo mode until you kick on the chorus. That effect is in stereo 8)
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It's only in "pseudo" stereo mode until you kick on the chorus. That effect is in stereo 8)
Yeah! :thumb-up:
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Well IIRC one channel is inverted so not strictly speaking "proper stereo" but it sounds great :thumb-up: With all my MP1 patches (unless I wanted to use chorus as chorus) I'd set the rate to 0 and depth to 100 which set up a nice "stereo" (inverse I spose) doubling (bit like 15 IPS tracking (often for snare) in its day Harley) tends to flange when you do this with MP2...
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Hey DjC, just had a thought bubble, when you compare your MP1s do you compare the main outs of each or just still use the (mono) Fx send as your out ? I say this for 2 reasons, one there may be differences in the Fx sends (just different plug ware for example, as in I never used the Fx send/rtn in my MP1, some do, some don't) and two, the MP1 sounds so good in its "sudo" stereo using main A/B outs (again how it was designed to work (into a B200s >:D and stereo cabs >:D ).
I run them through the paces because they are SO different! Two of the ones we bought sounded like cheap distortion pedals but when I switched to the send they came alive! :o Then three of the units we have sound very good through the stereo sends so it really depends on the unit Richard.
Now also bear in mind however you think your tone is at bedroom volume or small gig volume becomes completely different at 110 dB. This is my territory and for me if the unit or whatever I'm using doesn't cut through or make the grade at super high volume I don't need or want it. So many guys I have seen take "their sound" from their room or practice room and have to crank it and everything falls apart and then they are depressed. So to me I start at crazy volume and then back down from there ;D
Yes and I know all about the P.A. and miking it but I have been places where the monitors and soundman are terrible or better yet played situations where there is no P.A. and we did it old school like an old Black Sabbath concert or festival where we just all crank it to be heard. I'm very happy in that situation.
So I want to get the most out of MP-1 right from the start and if it sounds weak even after new tubes I don't like and it goes into Jason's collection.
This may sound strange but it is really no different between theses ADAs and old Marshalls. A close friend of mine has several late 70's JMP Marshall - and has sold even more because if they don't have "The Sound" he thins the herd and sells them off. I'm the same way with these MP-1s we have. Two of them I really like including my Holy Grail and the other 6 or 7 I won't even play.
Just my view though :)
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Ok, started some tubes rolling here.
I've a lot more to do, but I discovered some interesting things so far.
1) 2 Ruby's JJs in a stock MP-1 are maybe too much...very gainy while quiet tubes, but too bassy and you loose some 3-D...
2) a Ruby's JJ in V2 with a TAD 7025 or 7025s in V1 is an awesome combination...and the 7025 is still the winner...
3) Ruby's 12AX7AC5 HG+ is another very good tube...maybe not like a TAD 7025, but very good...and it works fine with a TAD 12AX7-C/ECC83 in V2
4) TAD 7025 in V1 with TAD 12AX7-C in V2 works fine! I've to test with the 7025s in V1 yet...
At the moment, the best combination to my ears is a TAD 7025 Highgrade in V1 and a Ruby's 12AX7ACZHG (the JJ) in V2: it works fine with overdrive, distortion and cleans.
3-D sound, smooth, good overall eq, very low noise, tons of gain, well balanced: I love them!
I've to test other combinations, of course...but I think I found my best.
Ok, I will buy a Mullard RI LP for V1 one of these days... :lol:
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I would use the Mullard in V2
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I would use the Mullard in V2
The Long Plate 12AX7 you mean?
With some Highgrade in V1?
Mmmmmmh....in that case I could reconsider buying it... :lol:
I like the JJ in V2...or the original chinese 12AX7 tube or the 12AX7A-C TAD...
What about the Mullard there?
Another thing I want to try is the Ruby 12AX7ACZHG+ in V2 with the TAD 7025 in V1...
It should be the same JJ tube with a more better selection...
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Yes Max,
I mean use the Mullard in the V2 with the HG+ in V1.
That's why I'm ordering the HG+ for all my preamps for the V1 slot, including the 3TM. A few of them have microphonic issues on the higher gain voicings, and the HG+ should solve this issue.
I'll still be able to get the Mullard voice from the V2 slot, but it should have better clarity this way.
I have a trio of the 12AX7ACZHG in the 3TM now, I'll replace the V1 with the 12AX7ACZHG+ and that should help with the squealing from the ultra high gain there. I'll try that extra tube in the original MP-1 with a 12AX7ACZHG+ or a TAD 7025 in V1.
Harley 8)
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I'll try that extra tube in the original MP-1 with a 12AX7ACZHG+ or a TAD 7025 in V1.
Do it and let me know!
I found 12AX7ACZHG+ in V1 + 12AX7ACZHG in V2 a little "too muddy" on basses with high gain and loosing some 3-D (also on clean sound)...while the TAD 7025 in V1 + 12AX7ACZHG in V2 is an awesome, almost perfect combination.
Now I'll test the TAD 7025 in V1 + 12AX7ACZHG+ in V2, just to see if there's any difference (less noise? Even if it's already less noisy...a lot less than with original tubes...).
Then I'll have to test different tubes mixes in my MP-1... :facepalm:
The List:
1) TAD 7025 HG (my preferred for V1, at the moment)
2) TAD 7025s HG (V1)
3) TAD 12AX7A-C/ECC83 (V2)
4) Ruby 12AX7AC5HG+ (V1)
5) Ruby 12AX7ACZHG+ (tested in V1, now I want test it in V2 with another HG or HG+ in V1)
6) Ruby 12AX7ACZHG (my preferred for V2, at the moment)
I would not test my TungSol 12AX7 anymore in the MP-1, since I didn't like it too much in any combination I already tested (this tube is absolutely awesome in my Rivera Pubster 25 combo, instead).
And I will let original 12AX7A chinese tubes have some well deserved rest. :lol:
About the LP Mullard, I'll see after this tubes rolling session. :lol:
Did you test it already in a non-3TM MP-1? With what tube in V1? Results?
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Hey Max,
I did have a pair of GT Mullard RI's in the MP-1 for a while and the tones were very good. I haven't tried the newer Mullard RI's in it yet, but I could give it a go.
I may not use the 12AX7ACZHG+ in there with the Mullard though, the 12AX7AC5HG+ might be better suited in that combination. I'll just have to try it out and see what sounds best to my ears.
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Hey Max,
I did have a pair of GT Mullard RI's in the MP-1 for a while and the tones were very good.
Were they Long Plates or Short Plates 12AX7 tubes?
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I've only used long plate tubes. Short plates make them sound too brittle.
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I've only used long plate tubes. Short plates make them sound too brittle.
:thumb-up:
Ok, some other tubes rolling.
I started from a very good point:
1) TAD 7025 --> V1
2) Ruby's 12AX7ACZHG --> V2
The first test was with the Ruby's 12AX7ACZHG+ in V2.
Result = WOW!!!
Punch, very very low noise, more gainy than with the 12AX7ACZHG in V2, better bass response and more overall clarity.
Very articulated and 3-D clean tones.
Absolutely the best.
Then I swapped the 12AX7ACZHG+ with the 12AX7AC5HG+ (TAD 7025 still in V1) : another nice combination...a little less gain and less "bassy", but very good.
Third test: Ruby's 12AX7AC5HG+ in V1 and 12AX7ACZHG+ in V2.
Very close to the starting point with the TAD 7025 in V1, maybe just a slightly different eq....little less basses, little more mids.
Another very good combination.....very hard to choose what's the best.
Next and last step was to swap V1 and V2: I don't liked it at all.
I think, to my taste, those Ruby's JJs are very good tubes for V2, but I don't like them in V1 in the MP-1: the sound looses gain and 3-D.
I've to say I love one thing of all these tubes (Ruby's and TADs): they are not noisy.
I assume this comes from Highgrade selection...they seem reliable and have good tones.
Having less noise, I can push my MP-1's output level some more and I increased OD1 and OD2 levels on my main distortion patch from 7.0 to 7.5 without adding any noise (I also tested with 8.0...same result....but I preferred a .5 less value).
Yes, MP-1 is the best preamp on this planet.
I cannot wait to send mine to MJMP for the mods and have it back...ready to rock for the next 30 years. :headbanger:
More tubes rolling will follow. :facepalm: :wave:
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Just to throw a spanner in the works, I went to a tube amp thingy the other week where the local tube amp tech guy (Andrew Z) got people to bring along their amps for a bit of tube rolling.
So they worked through an old fender bassman, vibrolux, soldano etc last amp was a Marshall (with all the knobs and allegedly all the different Marshall amp sounds).
So most of the rolling was V1. I got them to roll a few phase splitters as well.
So there were a bunch of tubes, JJs, GTs, TungSol, Mullard LPs and some 12AT7s. But the absolute standout tube in all these circuits (in V1) was a Svetlana. I'm pretty sure he was using the (newer) New Sensor Svetlana's. As now the original Svetlana factory in St Petersburg is shut :facepalm: (in the end their tubes had the "winged C" logo).
Now I haven't tried a Svetlana in MP1/2 yet, but based on what I heard the other day, they are definitely worth a listen.
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Just to throw a spanner in the works, I went to a tube amp thingy the other week where the local tube amp tech guy (Andrew Z) got people to bring along their amps for a bit of tube rolling.
So they worked through an old fender bassman, vibrolux, soldano etc last amp was a Marshall (with all the knobs and allegedly all the different Marshall amp sounds).
So most of the rolling was V1. I got them to roll a few phase splitters as well.
So there were a bunch of tubes, JJs, GTs, TungSol, Mullard LPs and some 12AT7s. But the absolute standout tube in all these circuits (in V1) was a Svetlana. I'm pretty sure he was using the (newer) New Sensor Svetlana's. As now the original Svetlana factory in St Petersburg is shut :facepalm: (in the end their tubes had the "winged C" logo).
Now I haven't tried a Svetlana in MP1/2 yet, but based on what I heard the other day, they are definitely worth a listen.
This one?
http://www.thetubestore.com/Tubes/12AX7-ECC83-Tube-Types/Svetlana-12AX7 (http://www.thetubestore.com/Tubes/12AX7-ECC83-Tube-Types/Svetlana-12AX7)
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Hey Max, yep that looks like the baby :thumb-up: As I said, it was by far the best sounding tube for V1 - rolling in a variety of amps from old Fenders to modern Marshall (with Soldano in between), moreover, he was including Mullard LPs in the mix (and you know how I feel about them). And I was sitting directly in front of the cab(s) :whoohoo!: best spot (albeit a bit loud LoL). But hey, that's in those circuits, how they sound in MP1/2 :dunno: but I recon really worth trying :thumb-up: .
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Hey Max, yep that looks like the baby :thumb-up: As I said, it was by far the best sounding tube for V1 - rolling in a variety of amps from old Fenders to modern Marshall (with Soldano in between), moreover, he was including Mullard LPs in the mix (and you know how I feel about them). And I was sitting directly in front of the cab(s) :whoohoo!: best spot (albeit a bit loud LoL). But hey, that's in those circuits, how they sound in MP1/2 :dunno: but I recon really worth trying :thumb-up: .
Well...a S logo is not expensive... :thumb-up:
It's maybe not so easy to find (I found it just from The Tube Store at the moment), but not expensive.
What puzzles me is that, from description, they say it has less gain than a 12AX7 Tung Sol and sounds smoother...and I didn't like the Tung Sol in my MP-1....while I absolutely love it in my small Rivera combo.
I assume tube amps and tube MIDI preamps are different beasts...and in a tube amp you also have a closer interaction between preamp and power amp, due to common transformers as well, that you loose in separate rack units.
Maybe this could explain why a tube that perfectly fits a tube amp is not that good in a rack tube preamp and viceversa? :dunno:
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Hey Max, it depends so much on the circuit (of course), and as you say, the way preamp/amp heads combine their stages is intertwined to make the whole. And then it's all subjective as to what works and sounds good to you, for your gadget and your style of playing.
The tung sol wasn't a standout tube in those amps either, but I mention the Svetlana because it was a standout tube in all the different amps. That said, none of the tubes he rolled that night were terrible.
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That Sveltana tube that Max dug up the image for, is a short plate. But as you just said Richard, it depends on the circuitry, so a combination of short plate in V1 and long plate in V2 might work.
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Well....if I could find one of those S logo 12AX7 tubes from any seller in Europe, I would give it a try for sure! :thumb-up:
On MP-1 and on Rivera as well...
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Ups....found it...
http://www.tubeampdoctor.com/en/shop_Other_brands_OEM_Tubes_Preamp_doubletriodes/Svetlana_12AX7_ECC83_S_Logo_Russia_748
(http://www.tubeampdoctor.com/en/shop_Other_brands_OEM_Tubes_Preamp_doubletriodes/Svetlana_12AX7_ECC83_S_Logo_Russia_748)
Even if I'm reading around that this tube is very close to the ElectroHarmonix 12AX7EH, same Reflektor plant and same New Sensor producer.
How did you find them when compared, Richard?
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He had an EH tube in the collection, it didn't sound too bad. One of my MP2s came with EH tubes and I didn't like them at all (in the MP2), but that was a while ago. I think the NS Svetlanas are worth a try in V1 (my understanding is the winged C branded originals are possibly better :dunno: but are now NOS only) just based on how well they sounded in all the standard heads compared to the other tubes he had. The guy with the Marshall (off all Marshalls) said the NS Svetlana were his go to V1 tube, and I could hear why.....
But who knows, until you try :dunno: . The Mullard LPs work great in MP2, I wasn't impressed with them (as much) in the standard heads. And then, what I like isn't necessarily what everyone else likes. Also, as Harley said, they are short plates.