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Author Topic: EQing for live/recording tone  (Read 3643 times)

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El Chiguete

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EQing for live/recording tone
« on: Time Format »

Ok so I knew this allready but I will say it again: what you hear with your ears is not what the mic hears! So I say this because now that I got my gear setup for recording I'm abble to actually look for better recording tone  :metal: . Of course whats happening here is very simple:

1) You set up an amp and like what you are hearing BUT since you don't have your ear right next to the speaker then of course the tone is going to change when you record your amp havving the mic just in front of the speaker!
2) Just like each mic is different each ear is different too and what you perceive as a good tone thru your ears is not the same as what the mic captures and then you reproduce!
3) Mic and hear position changes everything!
4) Plus other factors...

Now that I got that off my chest let me start with the actual topic. I've made very thoughtfull decisions of the gear that I picked up thru the years to have the tone that I have now and all together I ¨think¨ I have a nice full tone but now that I got all my gear to record I do a quick test with the mic (SM57 close micked) and I get nothing at all the tone I hear with my ears.

I understand that the mic placement is very important to get the sweetspot but what I think I'm lacking is the fullness that I normally hear with the eq that I have + speakers (Scumbacks H-75 LD: those are made for a Dumble type sweet tone with a "large dust cap smoothes out (rolls off) the highs slightly, and makes the treble silkier, and adds a bit more bass response"... btw I TOTALLY notice all of that!) and that is something that the "sweetspot" wont give me, I meen my thought would be that I would hear the silkiness in the tone with the added bass of the speaker+the external eq boosting the low end that I normally hear with my ears but depending where I would position the mic I would determing the mix of the frequencies that come out of the speaker BUT what I'm actually hearing is a bit of a harsh tone with too much highs and lacking of the lows.

So here is the deal, even thow I don't think mic placement is my exact problem/solution here are what I think are my possible options:

1) move the mic location and distance to see if I get what I want
2) change the settings of my eq to have to tone that I want thru the mic and maybe not so much hearing it straight from my ears
3) add eq after the mic

The way that I want to approach this is not exactly looking at how I can get the best possible recorded tone for a track but to get a great live tone that I could help the stupid sond guy on recreating that in a gig and this issue is VERY IMPORTANT to me now because in 2 weeks I'm going to play a gig and actually want to recorded and have a good tone (I dont get to play that often and I want to capture the best tone and performance I can get... and posted here so you guys can see  :banana-rock:)

So after wondering all over the place lets see what you guys can tell me.
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El Chiguete

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Re: EQing for live/recording tone
« Reply #1 on: Time Format »

Ok so I was going to go crazy doing stuff and trying out everything I could think of but after just a quick mic moving (in the middle of the cone and edge of speaker and about 1.5 inches away I'm getting a way better tone! Check out the clips on this other thread so its in the right forum.

http://adadepot.com/index.php?topic=1309.0

Cheers.
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Before you see the light, you must die!!!

'87 Kramer Stagemaster Custom
'81 Kramer Pacer Standard
custom made Les Paul
ADA MP1
Rane MPE 28
Lexicon MPX-G2
Epiphone Valve Jr. moded!!!

AFFA
Support Your Local 81

Kim

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Re: EQing for live/recording tone
« Reply #2 on: Time Format »

Another idea to consider is using multiple mics/placements and record using all of them at once; each mic to it's own track.  Then you can playback and adjust the Mix/Pan of each track to blend it all in how you like it. 

As an example, I once did an experimental session using 4 tracks.  I used a 2x12 cab loaded with 2 different speakers (one Celestion, one Eminence) and used a SM57 on each, both an inch off the speaker grill and pointed directly at where the dust cap met the cone.  The third track was an MXL vocal mic placed about 3 meters away from the front of the cab to get some of the "room".  This one was important to me as it's the sound you actually hear playing live.  The fourth track was Direct using the Recording Outs from my MP-2.   Now I had 4 tracks of the same signal coming from 4 different sources (close mic Celestion, close mic Eminence, Room mic, Direct) to mix together, add, subtract, Pan, in however various ways etc.   It was a very interesting experiment, and took the "doubling" or "overdubbing" out of the equation.  Obviously, if you don't have multiple track Record capabilities or 3-4 mics to use, then you'd be forced to overdub one track at a time which each source.....which is also fine, but that doesn't make this experiment stand on it's own.  Not to mention, takes more time to do as you'd Record your track 4 times instead of just once....
« Last Edit: Time Format by Kim »
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rnolan

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Re: EQing for live/recording tone
« Reply #3 on: Time Format »

Hey El,
(1) move the mic location and distance to see if I get what I want
2) change the settings of my eq to have to tone that I want thru the mic and maybe not so much hearing it straight from my ears
3) add eq after the mic
) All good thoughts and approaches IMO. Close micing with SM 57 s etc does 2 fundamental things, give a proximity (bass) boost and helps reduce spill when micing up a number of things at the same time. If I have the latitude/space in the studio I'd use good quality condenser mics (Rode NT1 or NT5 etc Neuman U87, AKGs etc) and mic from a distance.  The bottom end notes are longer wavelengths and don't open up/develop until you get some distance (like when someone with a big sub in their car, they can't here it very well in the car but when it hits my house it huge).
Re the gig, after much experience with what I know you want to do (and I've done it many times in a variety of ways) I'd offer this advice:
Concentrate on the gig, getting it right, enjoying yourself, don't let recording it be a distraction (stress!! and it will be a stress and it can/will detract from the show), sure record it but to get a decent live recording is a totally different focus and best attempted separately. If everything is micked up, you get lots of drums and vocals, stuff all guitar (depending where you setup on stage) and not much bass.  One easy quick and dirty is to take one channel from the desk and one mic next to the desk to pick up the FOH.
If the desk has spare sends, you can do a headphone submix so the recording is a bit better balanced.
To do it properly, you need to take a split from the stage box (like a separate monitor mix) or better different mics selected and placed for recording and record all the tracks separately, then mix in post production. Moreover, whoever is doing this recording is best in another room (or outside in a truck).
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