Non ADA Gear > Speakers & Cabinets
Too much resonant bass????
rabidgerry:
Has anyone ever had an issue with tooooooooooooo much rumbley bass coming from their cabs?
I recently have moved all the gear round in my practice room and we put the drums in the corner and the guitars at on wall and the bass in the middle of the room.
The bass rumble I got of my cabs however was EXTREME. So I moved my stuff today away from the wall and it helped a little bit. I also used milk crates to keep my cabs up off the ground to help with the situation.
The outcome was better but still I had to drop the global bass of my effects unit like -9db because of rumble. I could have reduced it further but I screwed everything too much if I dropped it, so I settled for somewhere in between rumble and no rumble.
Anyways, I have a theory, I play through 4 2x12" cabs.
(I chose the cabs specifically for my amps because of their impedance settings and also 2 x 12" cabs being brought to a gig can fit in a small car as you can put one in the boot and one in the back seat.)
The theory is, perhaps I am getting more rumbley bass because the way I have the cabs stacked?? I stack 2 on top of one another SEE ATTACHED PIC. The cabs have small rubber feet. They are also side by side. Am I possibley getting weird coupling effect with each cab coupling to each other from being on top and possibly at the side of one another SEE ATTACHED?
let me know what you think guys.
Just so you know I can hear the tight bass I need in my distorted guitar to have a nice tight thump bottom end, but I just have all this excess crazy bowel shaking boomeyness going on if I move anywhere other than the centre of speaker cabs. It seem worse if I stand to the sides.
All information or suggestions welcome folks.
rnolan:
This where the room eq knob on the MP2 is very useful, intended to adjust between very bright (shiny wood, glass) and dead carpeted rooms. Works quite well so similar eq is an option.
The cabs will definitely couple the way they're stacked, particularly bottom end. A bit more space between the 2 stacks will help a bit. Up off the floor is the go, but you've done that.
My other thought is standing waves which are always prevalent when you have parallel surfaces (e.g. walls/ceilings/floors) and why studio control rooms have angled walls and glass (and big active bass traps, generally along the back wall). A good way to visualise what standing waves do is from the beach when a wave going back out to sea collides with a wave coming in, makes a big splash typically up and down (you get to see the up), thus standing wave. The longer lower wavelengths (bass) are more prone (so bottom end rumble/mud) as those frequencies double in power from the collision. So not aiming your cabs at the opposite wall will help as will hanging thick carpet/drapes 3 to 4 inches in front of the wall, they need to be able to move so hang them, some of the bottom end will be absorbed (turned into motion of carpet/drape). This is a crude active trap. You can do more targeted sophisticated bass traps, simple design is long rectangular box with absorbing bats/rock wool whatever, hanging down vertically from the top inside the box and the box entry point (e.g. 12" square hole at front of one end of the box) for the bass to go in, bats turn it into motion so trapped. The size of the entry is tuned to various frequencies by its size (though not so critical with porous trap). Look up active traps (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bass_trap), what I've described is a porous bass trap.
rabidgerry:
Thanks for that man, what an answer. I'd be lying if I understood it all though ;)
Anyways, I thought I'd point out that the 2 x 12" have rubber feet, but I still think they may be coupling with one another.
Also, the photo I attached, shows how the cabs are stacked but it doesn't show the room positioning since I have changed this over the last few weeks. The cabs are now facing the drums in the corner of the room. Each stack rests on 2 milk crates. I also moved them slightly wider this week. However I am tempted to widen them a little more. I'm just stating this in case it changes the game slightly. I also have a rack EQ which is a phonic peq 3600 which I haven't used in a while.
(note, I usually use ART DXR delay unit and have a very short delay that I run one side only through (right), this is to achieve Haas effect. I don't need to if using stereo effects but it means drier patches I use will still be in stereo. It is currently in repair)
So you think I should create some bass traps? There is a lot of stuff in my practice room, the sound does not just hit bare walls. One more thing to note. The bassist cabs are on the floor, no feet, no nothing, I know his stack is coupling for sure which probably makes the problem worse right? We are looking for something to place his gear on as well but there seems to be no milk men around to steal milk crates from these days :D
rnolan:
Hey RG, (Anyways, I thought I'd point out that the 2 x 12" have rubber feet, but I still think they may be coupling with one another.)
That's not enough, though helps a bit. But we start down a slippery slope with that conversation. The "acoustic" coupling between the boxes etc particularly bottom end. It's fine they couple down each channel, just get them spread and careful where you point them. Ok pointing them into a corner (known bass boom bad guy spot). If you do the drape/carpet/rug thing all round the walls it will help (even better to have 2 layers (e.g. in drum corner) 100mm apart), then all the reflections (not just yours) are reduced.
Have a look on wiki re infinite baffle (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loudspeaker_enclosure#Infinite_baffle) if your interested, helps understand some of the variables, and there are lots depending where and what you are playing.
Hey man anything you want me to explain more let me know, I'll do my best :thumb-up:
rabidgerry:
No problem man thanks for the help. I'm going to read up on that link you posted.
Just to explain the madness a little. I had the drums put in the corner because everything I have rad suggests that they are best there. My cabs point into the corner simply because the drummer is there. All around the drummer are pallets that have carpet stuck on them and stuff with foam. We had made those things for when I was recording so they are my would be baffles. Anyways they are in the corner now out of the way surrounding the drummer.
There will be limitations to how I can spread my cabs, I did by em to stack em like that but perhaps it wasn't a good idea. Way easier to through two 2x12" into a small car than one 4 x 12".
Anyways thanks for helping, going to read up a bit.
Do you know what I was thinking (if it could be done), isolation spikes perhaps? Crazy idea?
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