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Author Topic: Best Known Preamps  (Read 14627 times)

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Harley Hexxe

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Re: Best Known Preamps
« Reply #15 on: Time Format »

Hey Gerry,

    I'll take your word for it on the Zoom gear. It's not like I'm likely to get into anything like that anytime soon.

    One thing I did discover about myself along the way by trying out all this equipment, was that I really gravitate more towards the real amplifier tones than the modeled ones. There's just a certain type of Mojo that only happens with a real amp that modeled amps just don't come close to plus, modeled amps don't take outboard effects very well.
   For example; I have a smaller combo rig that I use at clubs where a stack would be too much. This consists of a Fender Cyber-Deluxe, and my old Fender Vibrolux Reverb. The Cyber has built in effects which can give me Chorus, Flange, Vibe, Delay and Reverb. Many of these effects are stereo, and the Cyber gives me the option to run a line out to my Vibrolux to give me the stereo wide effects. I place one combo on either side of the stage, and it sounds great. The down side is that I can't add anything to the Cyber-Deluxe, even in the effects loop because it sounds like six truck loads of shite! It models various American and British amps and sounds pretty good doing it, but I can tell the difference even if the audience can't.
   This is why I just bought two tube power amps for my ADA's. I'm going to go as organic as I can with my amp tones and go with that. My Fender amps deliver some of the best clean tones and can take any stomp boxes or rack effects I want to put in them. So can my ADA's, and I have a lot to choose from.
    Maybe down the road, if I decide I don't want to take my racks or my Fender amps out, I might consider going with a AxeFX, but that will involve one hell of a lot of programming to get the tones I'm getting now, and I'm not really sure if I want to go through all that hassle.
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rnolan

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Re: Best Known Preamps
« Reply #16 on: Time Format »

Well some of this is so time dependent, eg we haven't mentioned line6, which from RGs definition, is very well known.  The couple of plays through them I've had and they're not shabby, are they for me, no but they have their place. I'm very much like Harley and prefer the real analogue tones (with some analogue & digital Fx mixed in), but horses for courses, whatever works for you. I try to keep my signal path as analogue as I can, and certainly analogue from the guitar to the cabs. But that's me and what I like.
BTW my previous post I mentioned Rockman (not Roctron), The first real "just preamp" I used was the X100, great unit and very expensive back then. Now RG you've taken this further IIRC.. into their rack units (which I really wanted but couldn't afford) but then I got the MP-1  :whoohoo!:
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rabidgerry

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Re: Best Known Preamps
« Reply #17 on: Time Format »

Hey Gerry,

    I'll take your word for it on the Zoom gear. It's not like I'm likely to get into anything like that anytime soon.

    One thing I did discover about myself along the way by trying out all this equipment, was that I really gravitate more towards the real amplifier tones than the modeled ones. There's just a certain type of Mojo that only happens with a real amp that modeled amps just don't come close to plus, modeled amps don't take outboard effects very well.
   For example; I have a smaller combo rig that I use at clubs where a stack would be too much. This consists of a Fender Cyber-Deluxe, and my old Fender Vibrolux Reverb. The Cyber has built in effects which can give me Chorus, Flange, Vibe, Delay and Reverb. Many of these effects are stereo, and the Cyber gives me the option to run a line out to my Vibrolux to give me the stereo wide effects. I place one combo on either side of the stage, and it sounds great. The down side is that I can't add anything to the Cyber-Deluxe, even in the effects loop because it sounds like six truck loads of shite! It models various American and British amps and sounds pretty good doing it, but I can tell the difference even if the audience can't.
   This is why I just bought two tube power amps for my ADA's. I'm going to go as organic as I can with my amp tones and go with that. My Fender amps deliver some of the best clean tones and can take any stomp boxes or rack effects I want to put in them. So can my ADA's, and I have a lot to choose from.
    Maybe down the road, if I decide I don't want to take my racks or my Fender amps out, I might consider going with a AxeFX, but that will involve one hell of a lot of programming to get the tones I'm getting now, and I'm not really sure if I want to go through all that hassle.

Well I wasn't so much talking about their preamp stuff.  I'm just saying if their old MFX units/pedals didn't appeal to you don't write their other gear off.  I don't think they have too many actual "modeler" units either.  The old MFX units like the 2100 I had were not modelers like the later stuff that where actual "modeling" units G5 and 9.2TT.

I dunno what the 9150 is like but I seem to read good stuff about it. Iperfungus we needs clips man.  I would not describe this as a modeler either.  Unless it say's in the manual some where that it's "designed to model"

And I mentioned their analogue pedals which definitely were great/are great pedals so in that respect, so you mightn't have liked what ever it was you tried which was digital but but don't tar all their output with the same brush.  He look Richard......analogue devices!

In regards to your experience with modelers not taking external devices very well..  Well I have to say that's quite a limited experience compared to my own.  The Boss modeling range take external devices really well.  I use my preamps in fx loop of a GT5 and did many weird things with GT6 and GT8 modeling units including things in front, in the loop and at the output (ART Delay unit for example).

Also no offence, but that fender "amp with stuff crammed in" is not quite in the same league as dedicated floor modeling units or rack modeling units designed with flexibility in mind.  I see amps with stuff in them as "novelty" or basic fx.  Forgive me if you have a lot more experience in this field, I have responded purely to the Fender Cyber story  :thumb-up:.
 
I had a Marshall AVT150 and this had on-board fx as well.  On their own, great.  But I would never have combined them as they could not be moved around in the chain should I run something into the loop, so I'm not surprised your results with the Fender sucked.  I never used a thing on that Marshall, I used my Zoom 2100 with it.  Worked a treat.  Didn't use the amp for anything other than clean.

If you like amps so much, why not buy a head?  If I wanted a tube preamp and tube power section I would buy a head.  It's almost a contradiction saying you are more into real amplifiers then use a rack preamp, particularly an MP1 which is trying to model a marshall.

If I personally wanted all tube or to go the way of real amps I'd buy one and be done with it.  I've evolved from modeling units into rack stuff however naturally and really want to exploit the fact I'm using Tube, Solid State and Digital and they flexibility with this.  I don't think I could go full tube amp head.  It's too "set in stone" or "definite"  I like that with rack it's like lego, you can chop and change and without having to have 10 different amps heads.  Plus the practicality of no power tubes suits me.

Anyways digressed here big time  :facepalm:



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Dante

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Re: Best Known Preamps
« Reply #18 on: Time Format »

RG: I hear what yer saying about 'if you want tubes, get a tube head'

I did that very thing when my MP-2 was slowly dying - I bought a tube combo and a multi FX device. Did it sound good? YES. But it was very limiting. I could only get 1-2 great distortion tones and lots of cool clean tones from the FX. Maybe a 4 channel amp would get me there, but my 2-channel wasn't doing it for me.

Just because rack gear takes a 'component' approach to preamp+poweramp+FX to get the job done doesn't mean it isn't all toob baby! haha. But, I do see your point, it seems contradictory

BTW: I have heard plenty of modelers I liked, until it was used on stage with a band involved. In that context, I really haven't been impressed with any of them. A buddy of mine has the latest/greatest modeling gear all the time, none of it impresses me (right now he has a Line6 Helix pedal = pretty lights, but no presence in the live mix).

rabidgerry

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Re: Best Known Preamps
« Reply #19 on: Time Format »


BTW: I have heard plenty of modelers I liked, until it was used on stage with a band involved. In that context, I really haven't been impressed with any of them. A buddy of mine has the latest/greatest modeling gear all the time, none of it impresses me (right now he has a Line6 Helix pedal = pretty lights, but no presence in the live mix).

Well you gotta know how to use them.  A big thing came for me when I realised, not using the cab sims and just using real guitar cabs, shit got REAL!  DAM Real!

So for me, going FRFR, never did the whole heap, but I did us cab sim with guitar cabs.  And yes I probably didn't through too wekk back then.  But the day when I turned the the cab sim off by accident happened, and suddenly there was a seismic shift!  The tectonic plates moved!

A bucket load of grunt arrived and replaced my sanitised HI-FI tone.  Suddenly there was all this rough and I was like "shit what do I do now??"  I would say from then on I got an idea of better tone.  This is why also MFX units for younger generations or new to music gear folk can be dangerous, as you may never know what it is you are actually meant to be looking for.  Back when I used my Zoom 2100 I hadn't a clue about bedroom tone translating to live tone.  But they day I turned that cab sim off my Boss GT6 changed everything.  So I rocked Modeler into real cabs for a few years.

Then got an MP1.  Shit didn't change right away there either, but at least by then I new what to work towards.
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Guitars:1986 Westone Dimension IV, 1989 Korean Squier Fat Strat Silver Series, 1998 Korean Squier Fat Strat, MIM Fender Fat Strat - FR, Squier Stagemaster Deluxe - Thru Neck x 2, Squier Stagemaster 22 Fret - 1st Gen, 1999 Squier Showmaster - Anniversary Edition, Squier Showmaster, Tokai FV40 Flying V

Effects:  Ada Mp1, Peavey Rockmaster, Boss GX700 Boss SX700 * Amps:   Rocktron Velocity 300 - Koch ATR4502 - Peavey Classic 50/50
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Soloist

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Re: Best Known Preamps
« Reply #20 on: Time Format »

Not a fan of modelers myself. I had a pod HD500 a few years back, it was alright but not really the tone I was looking for. Some of the fx were lacking a bit.

Rocktron preamps:
I have owed the Voodo Valve which did have some really good tones clean and dirty. I miss this pre, might pick up another. The Pirhana I still own (not currently in my rig) great for searing metal tones but not really good for mild crunch. Cleans are ok.
Prophesy,  played on one for a couple weeks. Similar to the voodoo valve nice pre. Cleans were tastey, OD was also tastey. Like a voodoo valve on steriods.

Marshall JMP1:
currently in my rig and used daily. Cleans are meh, all dirty tones are very good. The trick is to run an eq in its loop and a sonic maximixer behind it. Opens it up and thickens the tone.

ADA MP1 & 2:
Also in the current rig and both used daily. Exceptional tones from both of these units, clean and dirty.

Digitech:
2101 Great sounding, good feel but a pain in the a$$ to dial in. Owned one about 5 years ago. Worked better for FOH and recording than for a backline.
GSP1101 have one now, cleans are nice, dirt models not so much, has more of a real amp feel to it than the pod did. Don't think this will be staying. Might sell this and the Pirhana and pick up a prophesy.
 :metal:
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Iperfungus

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Re: Best Known Preamps
« Reply #21 on: Time Format »

Iperfungus, do you have yours set to Linear, or Valvestate?  I know a lot of guys like a more linear sound for the MP1, but I personally prefer the added "warmth" provided from the Valvestate.  Just curious what yours was set for, as I have the 40 watt 8004.

 :thumb-up:

I liked Linear more with the MP-1...it's more like the B200s: transparent.
But I use it with a Zoom 9150 and I do prefer Valvestate's warmth there (I use a stereo tube power amp with the MP-1 now).
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Iperfungus

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Re: Best Known Preamps
« Reply #22 on: Time Format »

Meas Boogie Triaxis is a very popular preamp, but I found it tedious to dial in a good tone

+1

I never tried the 9150 Zoom, because I had tried other Zoom products and found that all of them were very compressed sounding. So much so that they sounded like they were coming through a long cardboard tube.

Well..I had a 9030 for long time and tried other Zoom stuff...back in the past, as I wrote, everyone was looking the 9150 as a stinky useless toy.
But coming to today I've found that we did not understand it at all at that time: it has NOTHING to do with other Zoom's rack stuff.
And it has a very effective EQ that helps a lot to shape the overall tone.
Compression depends on how you set it, but it has the same amount of that as the MP-1 when you tweak it.
It worth a try if you find one around: it could require some time to fine tune tones, but then you will discover something new about that preamp/multifx.
Underrated as nothing else.

The JMP-1 was the best looking Marshall preamp, but not the best sounding IMHO. It was very weak and thin sounding to my ears. Marshall had an earlier one that sounded better, that was the 9000(?)


People who bought the Triaxis or a Marshall preamp were really just paying for the name.

I totally agree...also about the Marshall 9000 preamp!

We forgot to mention the Mighty Mesa Quad...a very very good preamp!
It just has a problem: it weights as a tank, it's big like a whale and you need 3 sherpa guys to carry any rack you put it inside.
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Iperfungus

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Re: Best Known Preamps
« Reply #23 on: Time Format »

@Iperfungus  you mean 8008 right?

Yes, exactly.


I have nearly bought one of these 8008s before are they any good?  I know Billy Gibbons uses them and I have been eyeing up this amp for a while ans also wondering what the valvestate switch can add to the tone or a preamp????  Do tell guy's since you own them.


I'd still want to know what one of these amps is like though?

What I've found about the 8008:

1) it's affordable
2) it's a reliable workhorse
3) it's powerful and transparent (Linear) or more warm (Valvestate): you can choose what you prefer more based on the preamp you connect to it
4) it has 100% Marshall tone
5) you've not to worry about tubes and bias
« Last Edit: Time Format by Iperfungus »
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Iperfungus

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Re: Best Known Preamps
« Reply #24 on: Time Format »

I dunno what the 9150 is like but I seem to read good stuff about it. Iperfungus we needs clips man.  I would not describe this as a modeler either.  Unless it say's in the manual some where that it's "designed to model"


Modeler? Not at all.
It's a full analog tube preamp with integrated digital multi-fx...no modeling there (just some A/D-D/A conversion, of course).
It's too old for being a modeler...  :lol: :lol: :lol:

About samples, it's hard to find some around..
I'll see what I can do...I'm not that good at "sampling" tones...  :dunno:
« Last Edit: Time Format by Iperfungus »
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rabidgerry

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Re: Best Known Preamps
« Reply #25 on: Time Format »

Well that's what I thought :thumb-up:

How old is it Iperfungus?  I thought I saw these around 94-97 era.  In which case Modellers where born Thanks to Boss GT3 and GT5.  But I still wouldn't call it a modeller.

Samples?  Mic, cab/amp HIT RECORD!  BAM!
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vansinn

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Re: Best Known Preamps
« Reply #26 on: Time Format »

Haven't been through all posts, but it seems the Engl 5xx preamps aren't listed as well-known, and I'd say, especially among metal players, they're quite known.

Disregarding the numbers, I might pick:
ADA MP-1 and MP-2, Rocktron Piranha/Chameleon models, Marshall JMP thingy, Mesa Triaxis, Line 6 Pod HD, Digitech GSP-1101, Digidesign 12-something, Axe-FX, Engl 530 (570/580), Bogner models, Soldano models, some Roland models
as the most known rackmount pre's - completely dropping discussions on build-in effects or not.


EDITs on Engl and Rocktron models + added Roland, as my list is mostly about which IMHO are the most known ones.
mmnn... maybe the Bogner and Soldano rackies are that known.. :dunno:
« Last Edit: Time Format by van Sinn »
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Chip Roberts

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Re: Best Known Preamps
« Reply #27 on: Time Format »

In terms of modelling, as I am a "younger" player, I cut my teeth on the Line 6 Spider II.  So, for me, I didn't really know what I was missing; the Spider gave me what I needed.  When Line 6 came out with that same model, the Spider Valve, I yearned for that for years until I finally got one about two years ago and WOOF!  That thing screams!  The Sovtek 12AX7s and digital effects sounded killer; it had the added warmth of a tube amp but with the effects built-in; which is what appealed to me about modelling amps in the first place.

It then occurred to me that, if what I want is a smart amp that can switch between clean/dirty and turn different effects on with the touch of a button, maybe I should look into building a rack.  That, in tandem with that I thought it would complete the "Eighties" package to have a rack of vintage gear in the background of my videos, and now here I am.  I am now a tube snob.

To respond to your question about the Valvestate, as I've only played my rig through the 8004 and MosValve 1162, my review is-I like it.  I prefer it to the MosValve as I found the MosValve too bright.  If I had one gripe it's that it doesn't have volume controls on the front like the 8008 does.
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Iperfungus

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Re: Best Known Preamps
« Reply #28 on: Time Format »

Well that's what I thought :thumb-up:

How old is it Iperfungus?  I thought I saw these around 94-97 era.  In which case Modellers where born Thanks to Boss GT3 and GT5.  But I still wouldn't call it a modeller.

The 9150 is from the early '90s...
I had one of the first Boss GX-700 units paired with my 1.38 MP-1 after I sold the Zoom 9030 (that BTW had a FULL analog preamp section...and DSP based digital FX): GX-700 and his bigger cousin, the Roland GP-100, were based on COSM technology for the preamp and comp/drive pedals section, with other digital effects based on a DSP processor (as are FX on the 9150, which probably leads some people to confusion about modeling...).
GX-700 was introduced some years before GT3 and GT5 pedalboards, but the Zoom 9150 was already around since some years.




Samples?  Mic, cab/amp HIT RECORD!  BAM!

It would be that easy if only I had a mic and some recorder to connect it...  :lol:
« Last Edit: Time Format by Iperfungus »
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rabidgerry

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Re: Best Known Preamps
« Reply #29 on: Time Format »

Well that's what I thought :thumb-up:

How old is it Iperfungus?  I thought I saw these around 94-97 era.  In which case Modellers where born Thanks to Boss GT3 and GT5.  But I still wouldn't call it a modeller.

The 9150 is from the early '90s...
I had one of the first Boss GX-700 units paired with my 1.38 MP-1 after I sold the Zoom 9030 (that BTW had a FULL analog preamp section...and DSP based digital FX): GX-700 and his bigger cousin, the Roland GP-100, were based on COSM technology for the preamp and comp/drive pedals section, with other digital effects based on a DSP processor (as are FX on the 9150, which probably leads some people to confusion about modeling...).
GX-700 was introduced some years before GT3 and GT5 pedalboards, but the Zoom 9150 was already around since some years.




Samples?  Mic, cab/amp HIT RECORD!  BAM!

It would be that easy if only I had a mic and some recorder to connect it...  :lol:

I own all those units GX-700 and Roland GP100

Believe it or not the first on the floor was the GT5 and then the GT3 was launched after as scaled down version.  GX700 which was basically a rack GT5 with some extra stuff.

GX700 was 1995,  GT5 was 1996 so I'm sure what really was the case was the GT5 was still in development while the GX700 came out.  They have the same processor chip.

But COSM was in those units first, however I think Roland GP8 and GP16 were attempts at amp modelling, kinda.

Must check out the Zoom 9030
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Guitars:1986 Westone Dimension IV, 1989 Korean Squier Fat Strat Silver Series, 1998 Korean Squier Fat Strat, MIM Fender Fat Strat - FR, Squier Stagemaster Deluxe - Thru Neck x 2, Squier Stagemaster 22 Fret - 1st Gen, 1999 Squier Showmaster - Anniversary Edition, Squier Showmaster, Tokai FV40 Flying V

Effects:  Ada Mp1, Peavey Rockmaster, Boss GX700 Boss SX700 * Amps:   Rocktron Velocity 300 - Koch ATR4502 - Peavey Classic 50/50
Cabs: 4 x Bugera 2 x 12"
Midi Controller: Behringer FCB1010
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