ADA Depot - A Forum To Support Users of ADA Amplification Gear
Non ADA Gear => Speakers & Cabinets => Topic started by: rnolan on March 15, 2024, 03:46:30 AM
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So I finally pulled the trigger on some Lorantz speakers https://www.lorantz.com.au/loudspeaker-products/loud-speakers/12-inch-guitar/ac304u100-mi-12-inch-guitar/ (https://www.lorantz.com.au/loudspeaker-products/loud-speakers/12-inch-guitar/ac304u100-mi-12-inch-guitar/) I've been thinking about it for a few years now.... (spec sheet attached). I have an old 2 x 12" cab that used to have Fender Twin Eminence 12"s in it. The guy I got it from used to use it on top of a 15" cab for his bass rig. I used to use it for miked up supports or smaller gigs. I used this cab (open air in the back yard of the drummers house) when I set my (currant but old ~1980ish)) record where my friends could here me 13 Kms away (around 9 miles) clear as a bell and came to the party I was playing at >:D . Amp was my '73 Marshall 50 (no power soak needed that night ;) ).
So a friend put a bit of ply down the center of the cab for me. With my MP-1 rig I had it wired stereo. I wanted the separator to reduce phase cancellations. Obviously it's not as good as 2 separate cabs spread well apart for that lovely ADA stereo sonic experience, but it does ok and these days, I want less to lug and fit in the boot (if possible) (I think some of you guys call it a trunk?).
So the cab has been restored by my friend (pics to come Dante ;) ). He wasn't happy just just installing the separator, he also cleaned up all the damaged/rounded corners etc. that many gigs brings to chipboard LoL, painted it and installed the 4 pin SpeaKon socket.
The speakers came this week :whoohoo!: I just have to screw then in and wire them up :headbanger:
BTW one of Loranzt's claims to fame is they make a Green Back clone that allegedly is as close as you'll get to the original's freq curve.
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Cool! Can't wait for pix
I hated running stereo in a cab without a wall - not so stereo really. It was definitely better with the wall, but whoo-boy, it was heavy. I used a Carvin 4x12, the one with the wavy logo. One heavy MF'er
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I have a single ADA slant split stack I wired stereo ages ago and it gets quite flangey (albeit convenient). I was thinking about how to put a separator in it, but as it's a sealed cab you have to go in through the speaker opening, tricky... When I used to use this 2 x 12, it wasn't so bad as it has 2 quite large openings in the back, so not quite open back, more semi open. When I selected the speakers I was in a quandary whether to get the 75w or 100w. The 100w (which I went with) are 3kgs overall heavier as they have larger magnets. And I wanted to keep the cab a light as possible. In the end the 100w maps better to the amps I'll run it with (B200s, DCM200L and TS100).
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I'll chime in here for what it's worth,
All my experiences with "stereo" cabs really left me unimpressed. I've come to believe that no matter how well a cab is isolated from one speaker to another, at three feet away, you can't tell any difference from a mono cab with the exception that it sounds a bit weaker. That's why I go with separate cabs, or combo amps, and I separate them by a fair distance. The Physics just doesn't let you get away with anything else.
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Hey Harley, salient point my friend. Back in my MP-1 days I used a Yamaha Quad box with some cardboard gaphed down the center for bigger gigs and this 2 x12 wired stereo for smaller setups. They both sounded better than mono. Then I bought 2 x ADA split stacks loaded with Boogie Celestion 90w (as they were the only 8ohm speakers the store had in stock and I wanted the cabs 4 ohms to match with the ADA B200s). Then I could separate them etc. And that was better (as you say). But now I don't want to lug so much stuff :facepalm: . I didn't find either setup weaker and they both sounded fine. And the new ADA split stacks sounded even better (and as you say I could spread them more), but the boogie Celestions' are quite mid rangy like all things boogie (at the time).
Anyway, I've managed to find a mob in Brisbane (SpeakerBug) that have the 5.2mm spade connectors (which is what the Lorantz need), and I ordered 4m x 50cm of wadding and also some 4.7mm spade connectors to connect to the 4 pin Speakon socket (which are 3/16" = 4.78mm). I could solder these connections but using spades is tidier. I may have to file the Speakon lugs to make the 4.7 spades work :dunno: . So when that arrives, I'll use some 2 sided tape (or maybe a staple gun) and line the insides of the cab with the wadding and hear what it sounds like. I'll rear mount the speakers (as they were originally). Also, as the pics I'll take will show, each side is facing away from center.
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Richard,
I suppose it's really about how you want to use your stereo application. Stereo guitar was good for me for a lot of years, but after going W/D/W, I just find that lacking anymore.
Even though W/D/W is not completely wet in the stereo channels, the dry center channel just adds so much dimension that wasn't there before. I only use the stereo for the stereo effects, and bypass them with an A/B/Y switch when I don't want effects. Sure, it's more gear, but it's so worth it!
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Hey Harley, I hear you. When I did the latest test recordings with the band, one channel wasn't working (really, really low level). I've fixed it now, seem to be a dirty jack problem. But the track had one channel and no Fx. When I overdubbed another stereo guitar track including a separate stereo fx track, I found I preferred the mono no FX track in the center with the others L & R. As you say, it added dimension but also articulation and presence in the mix. Made me rethink recording guitar tracks. If you listen to the first post here https://adadepot.com/index.php?topic=3019.0 (https://adadepot.com/index.php?topic=3019.0), Stumblin', The first half of the solo is mono, panned center with no Fx (the original live take). I replaced the 2nd half because it had mistakes with stereo + Fx. And I prefer the first half sonically, hence my rethink which is a bit similar to your approach.
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So my bits from SpeakerBug https://speakerbug.com.au/index.php?route=common/home (https://speakerbug.com.au/index.php?route=common/home) finally arrived today, :whoohoo!: , speaker connection spades (really nice gold plated ones and 5.2mm, just right for the Lorantz 12s) and 4m x 50cm wadding (plenty). So now to assemble, Dante, I'll take pics as I do it. Probably this weekend. The bit I'm not sure of yet is if the other 4.7mm spades I got will fit on the female SpeakOn socket lugs. The lugs are 3/16" = 4.78mm so I may need to file 0.04mm of each side of the lugs or inside the spades :dunno: , or if that proves too hard I'll just solder that end.
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:postpics:
Sorry, couldn't resist
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Some pics
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And more
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Pretty cool Richard,
Are you going to use kick plates on the front or grill cloth?
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Hey Harley, very good question (which I've been perplexing/pontificating about). I like the open front look, and that's how I've always used this box in the past. However, it did take a falling guitar peg head into one of the previous speakers :facepalm: , needed a re-cone. By kick plate, do you mean something that just covers the speakers? My current thoughts have been using metal speaker grate (like on the ADA slant split or the Messa P112s). Ideally, it would have 1" spacers and follow the v contour, so sit an inch off the speakers but you can still see them. Speaker grill cloth would probably be easier, but then you don't see the speakers :dunno: . I also toyed with the idea of covering the back holes with the wadding, but in the end didn't. I just did all the parallel surfaces to minimise standing waves. I did however use the 4.7mm spade connectors to connect to the 4 pin Speakon socket, rather than solder the cables directly to it.
So after all that, I plugged it in with my new(ish) 4RU live rack and gave it a whirl (11pm here so not too loud, tomorrow >:D ). Been a while since I had "new" speakers (and I've been wanting to try these Lorantz speakers for a long while)... So first impressions (albeit they are still tight and need burning in), very tight bottom end, and probably most notably, a really nice distinct presence, they will cut nicely through the mix. Very clear and articulate sounding, but warm (which I expect will get better as they settle). Stereo Fx sounded good, the separator plate in the middle was a good addition. It's not quite as good as spreading 2 separate cabs, but works well and sounds better (warmer, richer etc.) than mono
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Richard,
Kick plates are 12" metal grates with a rubber strip around the diameter, and mount with 4 clamps to the baffle. It's sort of like the grates ADA used but they can mount to the speaker flange, or to the baffle. You'll still see the speakers, but they will be closer to the cone. They are pretty stout, so your speakers will be protected.
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I used that loose metal grate for my cabs, like the grates on your Mesa cabs in the background. I put a 1x1" piece of wood around the outside edge and simply ran screws into that to hold the grates on. :thumb-up:
I'll see if I can find a pic of what I'm talking about. They end up looking just like your Boogie cabs. Or, you can get the round covers as Harley says, those work great too. Lots of car stereo guys use them for their giant Subs.
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Both of those ideas make sense. The kick plates would be easiest and add a little less weight. The cabs quite heavy, the 100w Lorantz 12s I went with are 3kgs heavier overall than the 75w. Good tip about the car guys using them, I was wondering where to look for them.
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I used to get the Peavey ones. they are complete with the rubber ring and four clamps and screws to mount them.
I've found a couple for sale on ebay:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/331259292234?chn=ps&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-213727-13078-0&mkcid=2&itemid=331259292234&targetid=4580840333842767&device=c&mktype=&googleloc=&poi=&campaignid=603247654&mkgroupid=1235852063340202&rlsatarget=pla-4580840333842767&abcId=9316139&merchantid=51291&msclkid=847cb78254e6114d29fed183b9a4509a
https://www.ebay.com/itm/295826254703?_trkparms=amclksrc%3DITM%26aid%3D1110006%26algo%3DHOMESPLICE.SIM%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20231107084023%26meid%3Dea42c83e432a4c57acdf70935a74d13f%26pid%3D101875%26rk%3D4%26rkt%3D4%26sd%3D331259292234%26itm%3D295826254703%26pmt%3D1%26noa%3D0%26pg%3D4429486%26algv%3DSimplAMLv11WebTrimmedV3MskuWithLambda85KnnRecallV1V2V4ItemNrtInQueryAndCassiniVisualRankerAndBertRecallWithVMEV3CPCAutoWithCassiniEmbRecallManual&_trksid=p4429486.c101875.m1851&itmprp=cksum%3A295826254703ea42c83e432a4c57acdf70935a74d13f%7Cenc%3AAQAJAAABcLSVkHmTL63bebovD9RfpraPWbY9f4anjbziTIaEIOVXg2DWhVLks3Lfqff9vxxfjIh4XEXusIehlT2iEH8%252BCxXNySMxlDIQJ3g86%252Bx3AAIAq9gznqdGSR72ksP41kjzPN1reUbVsJuld0S4i4qXlQfTmkMeIJTCXTM8mLpr7ju2fMvruDu87ZX%252B4bShOvD%252B4vgKng5tHbpSOxeLJvvbn%252FhKlOz%252FVfcBAOytYoAhcc7t1Ta9zcKzv8vR8moz8kEWGv1lY6GQK7KdRYjsnKl%252BKmh%252Bj6HTgKMLeeNC8s7hfCnAlbWP8aoYKtMp6MUTSS02FKVWd5IRHQNzRbrumYNgnKmPyYWGoAJowtwhEAfixUPnePoOx6Y3NdvxPMtq%252Bp30J4DYWVZfVfG6jc72mebi%252FzbUMyLDtfHFp%252BXlAg5Wm6dWiCzxG9lDVveUHBkUOGXzCHaKc8MlfmgIK0Q%252FIQtRO%252BnYe8Fjen3pH9m11APvgcir%7Campid%3APL_CLK%7Cclp%3A4429486&itmmeta=01HSVRFQ898C5H63YFX0RH80TC
Check out these links, they may be what the doctor ordered
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Thanks Harley :thumb-up: I'll have a look. As an aside, I finally ordered a replacement NiCad battery for my Bosch cordless drill (the drill was made in Switzerland, or so it says). I only procrastinated about it for a year or 2 :facepalm: since the original battery died completely. I finally found a replacement online (from Melbourne) and ordered it. It's so dumb that the new battery will cost me more than I can buy a brand new drill for, but I like the Bosch and I hate throwing things out that still work fine...
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Richard,
I know what you mean. I just got a pair of batteries and a charger for a Milwaukee drill I bought in January from a guy. They have different size batteries for different applications. The ones I got are 4ah, but if I want more torque, I'll need to buy a battery that is 6ah or higher. Those cost almost as much as the drill itself.
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Ok some news, the cab got a mini work out tonight, rehearsing in my lounge room (it's so good to be able to do that, all my neighbours have asked me to turn it up (go figure)). We are getting ready for out first proper gig, June 23rd :whoohoo!: . Nothing like a gig "line/peg in the sand" to get people motivated. So the band loves the new cab, it sounded great, still a little tight (hey, brand new speakers), but I got to run it up a bit louder than the quieter late night test sessions. So B200s on about 12 o'clock (it will go to around 3 o'clock ish live), vol pedal ~1/2 way ish (not full up yet). And the separator plate is doing it's job, the stereo Fxs sounded good (even with the box vertical, which is probably how I'll use it mostly, really helps with the phase/flanging I get with the slant split stack I've been using (running in stereo) which is a sealed cab, and also this one is "semi" open back. I had been pontificating about - stay with the rear mount or go front mount. But that got easily decided when I tried to put a speaker in from the front. The front holes are 10" so it wouldn't fit without opening them up quite a bit. Moreover, the 10" openings horn load the speaker a bit (no doubt the intension of whoever built this box originally). The MP-2 clean sounds just melt you, the dirty sounds are good, particularly neck PU stuff, but I may need to tweak the patch EQ a little for bridge PU, but then I need to try it at normal (really loud) volume before I get too excited about tweaking it.
Maybe the best way to describe it, is, they convey the (playing) energy really well, they sound "special" and a little distinctive, and it revved up the band, we belted out some good energy versions of the songs (lots of smiles etc.). This box used to have 2 x 50w Eminence fender twin speakers in it (which I quite liked BTW), I have to say, the Lorantz 100 watters are way better :thumb-up: .
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Sounds like you're good to go then :thumb-up:
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Hey Harley, yes, I think it will be good for now :whoohoo!: and I'm very happy with it so far. But I want to go further (shrinking my rig) and make a 2 x 10" stereo combo, MP-2, Multi Fx, and 1 RU light weight power amp. So sort of making something similar to the Quad tube, but with the bits I have. Anyway, that idea has been cooking in my head for quite a while now (since I have 4 MP-2s).
But I also envisage a bigger rig where I use my ADA Slant Split stacks, and the 2 Messa P112s, and cab up (yet to be constructed) the 2 Altec 15s I have (still in their cardboard boxes and never used (yet), this bit of the idea is partially inspired by Kim BTW)) to sit under the P112s, and one of my Behringer 2442 desks (4 subgroups). So the Split stacks fed by MP-2 stage outs > B200s, the P112s fed by MP-2 Cab Sim outs (as they have tweeters) and Altec 15s All powered by my Carvin DCM 2004L (basically 4 x 300w switched power supply 2 RU amp). So desk ch 1 & 2 MP-2 stage outs, 3 & 4 MP-2 cab sim outs. Desk main outs to B200s > split stacks, sub group 1&2 MP-2 cab sim outs > 2 channels of the DCM2004L > Messa P112s, and subgroups 3&4 MP-2 stage outs > other 2 channels of DCM2004L > Altec 15s. The desk has 4 sends per channel which can all be post fader to feed 2 stereo rack Fxs which return down 4 desk channels and can be routed to any of the 4 sub groups or main outs (to combine wet/dry whatever sounds good).
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I've never tried anything like that rig Richard, so I can't really comment on it. Like you said though, you want to shrink your rig, but that goes in the opposite direction :dunno:
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Hey Harley, I'm just dreaming up ways to use most of my gear at the same time. I'd probably also throw in my '73 Marshall (with or without power soak) > spare slant split stack as a dry addition and maybe feed it from a mixer monitor send :dunno: . It wouldn't be very practical, though would probably sound good, albeit very loud >:D . As you say, I've been trying to shrink my rig so it fits in my car boot/trunk and is easy to move etc. And the next extension of that journey is to make a 2 x 10" combo if/when I get around to it. But for now, the new(ish) cut back setup (4 RU rack, 2 x12" cab) will do fine.
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No sooner did I put together my tiny gig rig (lunchbox head with two small 1x12 cabs), then I figured out how to run stereo with my bigass combo amp. The whole reason for the small rig was to avoid carrying that monster combo.
Much more load in now, more load out, but much more 'ambiance' at gigs...so ;)
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I know it's hard to resist when you have all that gear and you know how good it sounds on a stage when you're moving a lot of air. Trust me I DO know that feeling.
These days, I don't take my ADA gear out to gigs, but I will take it to a studio when I want to track some good tracks, but no live gigs. That's why I bought the Fender Cyber amps. They do a good enough job and I don't risk damaging the rack gear. Plus, they can get as loud as I need, or I can dial them in as low as I need to, and they provide most of what my rack systems do, and it's a lot more compact. The only issue is I can't take those to smaller clubs that don't want amplifiers at their gigs.
I just picked up a Boss GP-10 to use with my CG-1 Stratocaster to see how that sounds and what it has in it. So far, it's an interesting piece of equipment. I'm still learning about it, and I'll probably start a new thread on it soon.
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Hey Harley, the GP-10 looks interesting and IIRC your CG-1 has the pickup for it installed factory. Looking forward to your posts about it. I had a fiddle with a friends GR-55 (I think he has) using his Godin nylon string guitar (which has the PU built in). You can get some pretty amazing sounds. Tony Mckenzie's review https://tonymckenzie.com/roland_boss_GP-10_synthesiser_effects_unit__inside_and_out_review.htm (https://tonymckenzie.com/roland_boss_GP-10_synthesiser_effects_unit__inside_and_out_review.htm) is pretty interesting.
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Hey Richard,
The CG-1 Strat has all the electronics in it already, yes. I bought it 7 years ago because I wanted to get the GR-55, and they stopped making the CG-1 at the end of 2016.
The more I researched what these things would do the less I was sure the GR-55 is what I want. I may still get one and learn it, but I'm thinking what I really want is the SY-1000.
These three units are the only things that the CG-1 will plug into. I got the GP-10 just to see how it would do as a fly rig kind of thing. So far, all I'll say is it's interesting.
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Hey Harley, I like the idea as an addition so you can make lots of interesting sounds if/when you need them. The distorted guitar with the Godin nylon and the GR-55 was (surprisingly) passable but no where near what we get from our ADA preamps. Also bending the nylon strings was a chore. But if you wanted a flute :whoohoo!: , and I suspect sax would also sound reasonable.
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Hey Richard,
I think we're getting a bit off topic here, so I'm going to start a new thread on what we're talking about.
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:thumb-up:
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Update - these Lorantz speakers are fu@@g awesome >:D . I just had a play through my new cut down rig with my oldest guitar (that I still have), Anson MIJ strat (heavily modified), has a late 70's SD hot staggered strat in the bridge, my old Navarra LP (the predecessor to Ibenez) bridge gold humbucker in the middle, and the original Anson SC in the neck. And just using my standard MP-2 patches, the sound is awesome. I love these speakers (and I've heard a few) and they just keep getting better. If you are considering new speakers, give these go, you won't be disappointed. So I went for the 12" 100w as they match up well with my various power amps. The most popular apparently are the 75w 12". They are about 1.5kg less weight and have a little more top end (according to the spec sheet). Moreover Lorantz make a greenback version that allegedly matches the original freq curve. https://www.lorantz.com.au/product-category/loudspeakers/12-inch-guitar/ (https://www.lorantz.com.au/product-category/loudspeakers/12-inch-guitar/)
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:thumb-up:
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Holey crap batman, these speakers just get better and better as they settle in. At first, the MP-2 clean sounds were just melting me, so good. Initially bridge PU dirty wasn't quite floating my boat as much. But they have come on like a storm :whoohoo!: . Just fished a rehearsal with the rig and all the sounds were just amazing. And I haven't changed the patches at all. So B200s set on 1 o'clock. Vol pedal ~1/2 (which is the MP-2 main out vol), well we are in my lounge room. The great thng about that is my neighbours ask me to tun it up, go figure (Wayne's world, party time..).
So now I'm seriously contemplating changing out all the Celestions in my ADA Slant Split Stacks for the Lorantz 75 w 12"s (https://www.lorantz.com.au/loudspeaker-products/loud-speakers/12-inch-guitar/ac304u75-mi-12-inch-guitar/). So I have the 100w variant (https://www.lorantz.com.au/loudspeaker-products/loud-speakers/12-inch-guitar/ac304u100-mi-12-inch-guitar/), while I don't know the shipping cost to OS (e.g. US) at $207 and $216 AUD ($133 USD and $139 USD respectively) is not outrageous. And these are the best guitar speakers I've ever used. So if you want something a bit special, that sounds "way better (IMHO)" than the competition, order a pair and try them out. I can categorically say/report, you won't be disappointed.
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So I've come up with an idea (I expect it's not new :dunno: ), that instead of trying to cover the speakers with a grille of some sort to protect them. I was contemplating making (or getting made) a cover so they are protected in transport. So while pondering that idea, I though, what if I can find a travel suitcase (cloth version with 2 wheels, not 4) that it fits in? The one I have is just a bit small, I need 670 x 470 x 310 inside the case. So it seems this idea may work out as there are plenty bigger than mine. And if I can fit the MXC, Exp pedal etc. in the front zip pouches :whoohoo!: . If I have a cover made, I still have to carry it (and it's on the heavy side (like all good speakers should be). But, if I can fit it in a wheely case with a handle... Anyway my ex has a case almost the right size and she wants a new one with the 4 wheels. I'm hoping it works out (it's 450 wide but soft sided and I need 470 wide) apart from that it will fit fine. Work in progress LoL.