ADA Depot - A Forum To Support Users of ADA Amplification Gear
Miscellaneous => Discussions => Topic started by: rnolan on July 30, 2016, 11:49:28 AM
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Hey All, So starting this topic for Orkun, he was thinking to start a campaign on change.org to get signatures to get ADA to make re-issues. He and I exchanged a few PMs about it, and I sugested a discussion topic, so here it is :)
(Orkun:- My wish is MP-1 , MP-2 , MP-1 Classic , MQ-1 etc... old ADA rack products reproduce by ADA. Because I want to see them in the future too, as a very good condition. I wanna new replacement parts too. I know, there is some replacement parts but I wanna more. Because I said that, I will use my MP-1 forever. And I will buy ADA rack units. But as a new. Because when I buy my MP-1, it has got a problem. Now, it repaired. But it's first owner said me that: "It hasn't got any problems. It is like a new." But when I got it, it has got a problem. So I don't wanna buy used things more. I wanna reissue of old ADA rack units by ADA. Like Marshall JCM 800)
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Thanks rnolan! Tomorrow I will start a campaign on change.org .
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A reissued series would be great, and I wholeheartedly support this.
Just do note that all devices needs to be re-engineered with new power supply, cpu, (part of) logic circuitry, reprogramming et al..
While absolutely doable, it still isn't a 'just-like-that' job.
Let's hope Dave is up to it (lost his son a few years ago).
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That would be nice, but also quite a long stretch to actually see happen. Unfortunately, this kind of endeavor would require a considerable amount of money to get going....money that is highly unlikely to get back to "break even" let alone create a profit of some sorts. Passion is great, but passion alone won't pay the employees or the bills. :( Rack gear for guitarists just doesn't sell like pedals and amp heads.
How about an all tube amp head by ADA? That stands a real good chance of selling.
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I agree with Kim on this one.You can try it but it's a small chance it will ever happen.
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I would also like to see something like that happen as well, but I'm not going to hold my breath that it ever will. Just like many of us here have been hopeful about seeing a MP-3, ever since we heard that ADA was going back into business, and that doesn't look like it will ever happen either.
At the time the MP-1 came out, the trend at the time was for more guitar players to move from stomp boxes to studio, (rack mount) effects, and ADA jumped on that bandwagon at the time, and produced a variety of effects for years before Dave decided to introduce the MP-1. Using MIDI, and incorporating that to create a programmable preamp, which was up until that time exclusively for keyboards, was what made the MP-1 the innovation of the century.
Since that time, MIDI in the guitar domain has proven to be generally unpopular because the majority of guitar players are too impatient to learn it well enough to be able to use it, and rack gear in general has faded from popularity since the mid 90's and hasn't made a comeback either. In fact, the current trend is for everything to become smaller and more simplified. While I still believe it a great idea to have 128 amplifier tones stored in a small box that I can call up at the press of a button, the truth is, and this applies to most of us here at the Forum too, we really only use no more than a handful of presets in any practical performance application. Most guitar players dial in a clean, crunchy, and distorted tone that suits us and basically, use those with whatever effects we like. This was also true with the famous MP-1 users back in the 80's as well. This is why two and three channel amplifier heads are currently the production standard. Kim's suggestion about an amplifier head would probably be the closest we'd see from ADA if they were to go into that direction, and that was where ADA was headed before they disappeared in the 90"s with their combo amps, (i.e. Rocket, Viper, Quad-tube). Maybe in the future, Dave might produce an amp head, who knows?
As far as replacement parts for our rack gear, I have doubts. Many of the components that were used in our rack gear was proprietary and only made while our rack gear was in production. When our models were discontinued, so were these proprietary parts. Those of us who were around when the ADA preamps were on the market and going strong also remember that ADA stopped making effects units within a year or two after the introduction of the MP-1. ADA went from signal processors to amplification systems exclusively. That was because the bandwidth of the ADA processors was not up to par with the more popular and established brand names, and was considered low-end processors. It would have cost a lot more for ADA to re-design their processors to compete with the high-end brand names already out there, and the units themselves would have cost much more than they did at the time.
I'd sign a petition, but as I said earlier, looking at the trend in today's market, I wouldn't hold out much hope for it going anywhere. The closest thing I think we might see from ADA would possibly be a stomp box sized power amp to add to the current line of ADA products to complete a fly rig on the floor, but even that is doubtful.
Just my opinion though, and we all know what opinions are like :lol:
Harley 8)
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make the tone adjustment on the mp1 with knobs instead of numbers. i will be happy. not interested in the pedal.
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Many interesting and valid comments and arguments on here.
I'd say that the only processor worth bringing back to life would be the MP-1, simply because of part it's everywhere-recognized qualities, part due to it's fairly uncomplicated design, and partly due to it's cult-like status - I sometimes still see people on other forums (like sevenstring.org) saying "just bring back the MP-1".
The Classic may be a very neat device, but has no status compared to the original MP-1.
The MP-2 (I have two) was too complicated; lots of cool features for sure, but none of the modern effects that the audience would crave in a modern device.
I believe fairly few would shop an MP-1 (I have one) - I only rarely see comments on the MB-1 from bass players.
However, the MB-1 can be quite sexy for the downtuned / multistring guitars that are pretty popular these days (and will remain so as the market and applications expand).
Further, these days loads of players work in home/project studios on both guitars and bass.
As such, it would make perfect sense combining the MP-1 and MB-1 designs, both of which are fairly straight forward designs, into one dual/triple channel preamp.
Even without added modern effects, I think many would like such an approach for the flexibility of tone shaping.
But oh wait.. adapting those designs to feature a modern PIC processor with build-in 30 MIPS DSP would easily allow adding a few basic effects like reverbs and delays, as, once the PIC has been integrated, no other hardware (apart from AD/DA to/fro the PIC) would need to be arranged into the original design.
And I'm sure this would be enough to satisfy many a player looking for a real authentic tube-analog sound..
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But there are a lot of pedals and heads nowadays. I think, rack must back. Because you can create your own amp sound. You can select your preamp and power amp. But you can't do this if you buy head amp. Your preamp and power amp specific and you can't change it.
But if your opinion is different, I respect.
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Some good reactions here.Like already said,most players prefer amps now,I think maybe 10-20% of the players still use racks and that's not enough to bring out new rack products.Now ADA did bring the MP-1 back but in a pedal,and it sounds quite good it's not what we rack players need.
Now on the other hand,the MP (MB) racks are getting old,I think most of them still work after all these years and if you maintain them a bit you can still use them for many years.And yes some chips are obsolete now but you can still find them if you want.At the moment there's only 2 things you can't find anymore,that's the CE425 chip in the MP-2 (driver for the level LED's) and the front panels.For the rest they can be repaired.Usually the obsolete chips don't break down easely.Even the old effect racks can be repaired.
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Some good reactions here.Like already said,most players prefer amps now,I think maybe 10-20% of the players still use racks and that's not enough to bring out new rack products.Now ADA did bring the MP-1 back but in a pedal,and it sounds quite good it's not what we rack players need.
Now on the other hand,the MP (MB) racks are getting old,I think most of them still work after all these years and if you maintain them a bit you can still use them for many years.And yes some chips are obsolete now but you can still find them if you want.At the moment there's only 2 things you can't find anymore,that's the CE425 chip in the MP-2 (driver for the level LED's) and the front panels.For the rest they can be repaired.Usually the obsolete chips don't break down easely.Even the old effect racks can be repaired.
You are right. So I won't start a campaign.
Thanks for everyone for replies.
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But there are a lot of pedals and heads nowadays. I think, rack must back. Because you can create your own amp sound. You can select your preamp and power amp. But you can't do this if you buy head amp. Your preamp and power amp specific and you can't change it.
But if your opinion is different, I respect.
What you're saying is true, when you buy and amp head, you are limited to it's range of tone(s) within it's sound spectrum. That was the great thing about the ADA preamps, (all of them), you had a wider range of tones than you could ever get from any single amp. And yes, I agree you can tailor make your whole guitar amplification system to suit your personal taste with a component system. This requires thought, and unfortunately that seems to hurt most of the guitar players who are around. The general belief of the majority of guitar players is to have a guitar, a cord, and an amp, and just go for it!
These are the type of personalities I don't bother to debate with because they have the intellect of a house plant. So when someone pooh-poohs on your rack rig, just smile and know you are an above average intelligent guitar player. That's what I do. When they sell their amp and go buy a different one because they want a fresh sound, and they keep repeating that cycle while I still have my same rack gear and just tweak it until I get what I'm looking for, then that in itself speaks volumes.
Harley 8)
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That's true,some do have the intellect of a house plant. :facepalm:
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I'll admit that the thought of a new MP unit has definitely been in my mind for quite some time. I seem to recall someone from A/DA saying that they were exploring the idea for a new MP unit a while back. But I think some good points have been made here, most guitar players prefer an amp head, if only for the looks.
I think that in regards to rack mounted pre-amps, A/DA knows that Fractal and Kemper are the heavyweights, and it would be difficult for them to break into that market. Personally I'm not a fan of either, having so many different options leads to option-paralysis in my case.
You could market it as a Head as well as a rack unit like Kemper does. Their Profiler is available as both a head as well as a 19" rack.
Bear with me as I try to explain this.
Every setting (OD1, OD2, Master Gain, Bass, Middle, Treble, etc) has a knob. Each knob has little LED's around it (think of Kemper) that show the setting. Once you dial in your sound, you can save that setting to a preset. (The voicing knob would only have 3 LED's obviously) Maybe an option to kick on more tubes for those of you who want 3 or 4 running (Hughes & Kuttner did this with the power amp tubes on their TriAmp Mark 3).
After saving the preset, you can always call it up by selecting it and the LED's around the knobs will showcase the setting for that pre. If you want to make a quick adjustment, all you need to do is turn the knob. That way you don't have to press "Edit," then the desired setting you want to change, before actually being able to change it, you can literally do it in seconds.
I'd assume it would have a screen on it, because that makes things easier. Although I don't know what the screen would show other than the preset/ bank. (I'm more of an idea guy than a technical guy :lol:)
As far as the power amp section goes you could do the same thing with the tubes, have 2, 3, 4, on or just kill them and go into a solid state circuit, or bypass the damn thing altogether and go into a dedicated power amp.
I figure once the guys in the Digital Modification thread are done, they could knock one of these bad boys out in... 6 months? :dunno: :lol:
Comments? Criticisms?
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This would be nice to see, but honestly not going to happen.
Rack stuff as Kim has mentioned doesn't sell well anymore. I am the only one of two people I know off using rack gear in my country!! It's just not in vogue at the minute and the cost for such an operation would definitely not be justified profit wise for the company. If they did it they'd go bust probably or run out of cash half way through.
When I play through my little 3U rack people come up to my rig and sit and stare at it and wonder what the hell it is. I had some kid the other night from a support band come up to me and ask to use my pedal as he forgot some kit (f**king amateurs!). Anyways I said "no" as I would have to program a usable sound for him from scratch as it was all set up to have an external preamp in the loop and when I pointed to my pre and said "I get my distortion from this" he looked rather worried and frightened!!!
So anyways the point is, there is not the awareness of rack stuff the same way there used to be in the 80's, at least not for guitar anyways. The rack market is largely made up of live/stage sound equipment now.
For guitar, currently, I would say Amps are really dominating at the moment, amps and one or two stomps seems to be what I encounter mostly with other guitarists.
Nice idea though.
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Hey Harley, MJMP, rather demeaning toward house plants LoL
Hey PS91, similar idea to one I've been mulling over the years, so when you select a patch, the knob leds show current settings, and you can tweak the knob, and my thought was it would remember that tweak for that patch until you save it before power off, so when you changed patches during the show you wouldn't loose the tweak from any altered patch until power down, but then decide to save the changes or not.
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These are the type of personalities I don't bother to debate with because they have the intellect of a house plant. So when someone pooh-poohs on your rack rig, just smile and know you are an above average intelligent guitar player. That's what I do. When they sell their amp and go buy a different one because they want a fresh sound, and they keep repeating that cycle while I still have my same rack gear and just tweak it until I get what I'm looking for, then that in itself speaks volumes.
Harley 8)
I find these sorts of people also, and like the big H has said, I realise then not to bother trying to have a conversation with them. They also have a bad habit of making me feel like I spend to much time thinking about equipment and set up than playing. And while it's true you can get lost in your setup and rig so long as you know to come back and do your homework you are ok.
My main analogy for gear is this:
My gear is my tool for creating sounds, from guitar to Speaker and all in between. Think of this like the painter who mixes his paint just right so he\she can paint the pictures the way they want and express themselves exactly as they want.
When I was setting my gear up on Saturday night before a show, a member of one of the support bands who I was getting along with fine standing watching me. He saw the amount of cables I had and watched me carefully run them from piece to piece. He said "Jeeeez could you not have just got something simpler that you could just plug right into?". He was jokingly making a point and not meaning any real harm but I knew exactly what school of thought he was from, which is fine. However that's why when I turned it all up he was suddenly impressed as it sounded great in stereo! And probably not like any other amp he had heard within his local musical experiences. Perhaps then he saw method to my madness. One thing is for sure, whether he thought it was good or not, he'd nevr adopt the same setup himself as he would probably admit to the fact he'd be too lazy to do so. And there you have it! There are those guys and then us guys and some who straddle both!
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In regards to the Fractal and the Kemper units, I see one as a modeler and the other is a profiler. Neither one is an actual preamp. There doesn't seem to be any unique tonal characteristics to either of these units. So, that puts the question in my mind: "If I wanted to create a great amp tone for my guitar with one of these, would it deliver?"
I have my doubts. The best I could do is take something that is modeled after another existing amp, and manipulate it to try and come up with something really cool. I can start from nothing with any of my ADA's and just build an amp tone from a blank patch into something that makes the guitar sing! I've done that with all of my stock ADA preamps.
That's the difference between a real preamp, and the new shizzle!
Harley 8)
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And many just don't understand how things work, nor do they want to, but some do want to understand, and sometimes they are afraid to ask. :dunno:
A guy on another forum didn't understand even about a head and cabs, the thread was all about tubes vs SS for bass gear (a pretty heady discussion as I'm sure you can imagine), someone posted a pic of their Fender Bassman rig (head/cab), but the guy sheepishly asked the question, well hopefully he understood my answer/explanation, but as I replied to him, no question's ridiculous or stupid if you don't know the answer. The thread in question also had lots of references to class D amps (the latest fashion in bass power amps, and elsewhere no doubt). One of the other posters thought Class D was just switching power supplies, and was a bit surprised when I pointed out that Class D isn't analogue (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Class-D_amplifier). Nifty, powerful, light, etc, some even say sound good but they are a version of digital (and all that noise has to be filtered out, and allegedly they need crap loads of negative feedback).
I've managed to get my live rig down to 1 8RU rack, 2 speaker cables, 1 guitar cable, 1 7pin midi lead (MXC) and 2 cabs (or sometimes 1 stereo cab). That said, I'd go back to a gazillion leads etc tomorrow if I needed to to get the sound I want.
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My amp and two amps before that were class D.
I read this article and I did not see the part where it say's class D amps are digital amps? Or even related to digital amps.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Class-D_amplifier (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Class-D_amplifier)
So I decided to look for more evidence that Class D is digital.
Now I do not know what most of this means but it clearly states in part of this article
http://www.soundonsound.com/techniques/what-class-d-amplification (http://www.soundonsound.com/techniques/what-class-d-amplification)
"You now understand how a Class-D amplifier works, and if anyone tries to pull the wool over your eyes and convince you that the 'D' stands for 'digital', you can tell them how wrong they are, with confidence. Class D is not digital."
I'm going to side with this article and say my amp is not a digital amp.
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Well depends what you mean by digital (my main point was it isn't analogue), if you think of digital as just ones and zeros (or ones and nones), no it's not. However, it's a sampling technology (they use various methods):
Quote from Wikipedia "The analog signal (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Analog_signal) to be amplified is converted to a series of pulses by pulse width modulation (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pulse_width_modulation), pulse density modulation (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pulse_density_modulation) or other method before being applied to the amplifier. After amplification (R - of the pulses), the output pulse train can be converted back to an analog signal by passing through a passive low pass filter (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low_pass_filter) consisting of inductors and capacitors." Pulse Code Modulation (PCM, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pulse-code_modulation) is one way to do A/D conversion (stored as ones and zeros). Class D amps do the same thing conceptually. They are not analogue except for a bit of their input (prior to conversion) and a bit of their output (converting back after amplifying the pulses).
I didn't say they didn't sound ok (and sorry if I gave that impression at all), but they are not analogue amps, and don't work the same way. They work the same way (conceptually) as what we call digital.
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PWM and PCM is not the same thing, PCM is digital with a sequential data stream while PWM has a fixed amplitude but the duty cycle changes.PWM is also used in servo drive's and AC motor controls,also in LED dimmers.As for the switching power supply mythe, well some DC converters also use PWM so ...
Now the real advantage of class D is the efficiency which is around 90%,so the amps are smaller and can provide more power. Compare that to a class A (25%) and class AB (50-65%).
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Yes but they do the same thing conceptually (albeit very differently), convert analogue to something else (~sample it), process it as something else (very efficiently in the case of class D), and then convert it back again.
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Back on the topic of Rack Gear popularity (or lack thereof): Next time you're in the music mega mart (Guitar Center, etc.), ask the kid working there about their rack mount power amps. Notice the blank stare, as if you're speaking in tongues :o
We had a gig yesterday, opening for a Skynrd tribute band, and they were gushing about my tone. Keep in mind, they were using some vintage combo amps (ol' JCM800 2x12, Ampeg bass amp) for 'that tone' they needed. Each guitarist had their signature tone, but just one. Maybe two, if the had another dirt box on the floor.
True, I really only use 2 cleans and 2 dirty patches, but they are on the pedal board in 2-3 different variations based on which FX are on. And, I still have a couple buttons reserved for SOLO boost. I'll take the rack gear
BTW: I have very few wires to hook up, just a 2 cable snake that goes from my pedal board to the rack. Two cables; guitar cable and midi cable. My wireless transmitter is on the pedal board, so that eliminates one wire right there. Two speaker wires later, Ta DA!!! All set up.
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I have a lot of long cables lol I suppose if I was able to move to a slightly bigger rack I could do away with my FX unit on the floor and the long cables. It's not feasible for foreign travel to have a bigger rack at the minute. I doubt I could get on with a 4U as hand luggage.
Yip of course a kid is gonna look at you with three heads if you mention "rack" to them. Either that or say something about being stuck in the 80's.
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Depends on the store I spose, both the stores I frequent hear have rack amps but in the PA section, not that there's allot of choice though. The store are related (by cross ownership) and distribute Carvin in Australia (and MESA/Boogie). Hence I now have 3 carvin amps, all for very good prices (TS100 (tube 2 x 50w), DCM200L (2 x 100w), DCM2004L (4 x 500w (Class D)).
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There is nothing rack related in any music stores where I live. One shop rents PA stuff and live sound gear, that's probably as close to rackgear as you'll get in my town.
I don't shop in these music shops for a reason you know. I buy everything on line, everything! Picks, strings, cables, guitars, amps, cabs, speakers!! Music shops suck over here. They pander to the masses or their limited stock selection determines what you can or cannot buy, so this doesn't suit me hence buying everything online.
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I do a bit of both, if I want it now, I try the store, depends what it is. Also shipping to Australia is just outrageous. If I can by from an Australian store online, that tends to work out ok (eg bought 6 Mullard long plates a week or so ago from a mob in Melbourne, too easy, and I can't get them locally, the shops are Boogie dealers, so that's all I can buy (tube wise) locally). Also since I've been shopping with these dudes for over 30 years I tend to get reasonable discounts, though depends on the margins, the AUD, and the planets LoL.
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I think there's constantly a good amount of rack gear in use; it just not present in the street stores (who simply refuse to see the light), but rather gets discussed and bought/traded online and directly from ditto shops..
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most stores i go to know nothing about racks. i ask for power amps, they don't know wtf i am talking about.
i them questions about re-amping and running effects in stereo. they have no clue wtf i was talking about
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There is someone buying rack gear sure, but honestly. I'm one of two guys in my local scene I know using rack stuff. Now some probably are in the woodwork, but honestly, that says something to me. People are all about amps at the minute.
Music shops where I am, no rack gear or rack knowledge except the rental place I mentioned.
It doesn't bother me that there is no love for rack really or it's not in vogue should I say, it's their loss after all not mine. I probably wouldn't buy rack stuff if my local shops had it anyways, because I'd get it cheaper online and have a better selection online.
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Chamai.
If you're talking with the young sales clerks, of course they don't have a clue. They weren't even an idea in their mother's jeans back then :lol:
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I always thought of ADA as pioneers in their field.
The MP-1 was a revolution the same way the POD from Line 6 made its own revolution...
So in this regard, I feel that it wouldn't be a good decision for ADA to start going backwards and produce
old designs, even though as great as they were.
But I feel they are trying to keep being themselves and offering new twists.
The MP-1 channel pedal for an example or the APP preamp which seems to use some uncommon technology.
So I expect and hope that ADA will know its actual rebirth by designing yet another trend setting product,
maybe as shocking as the MP-1 was back in its day...Why not?
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I'd love to have an Combination of a Power-Amp and Speaker-Sim, simultaneously usable and some fancy features.
Or a Remake of the old products, because the current parts won't get any younger, but more and more faulty with time...
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Or a Remake of the old products, because the current parts won't get any younger, but more and more faulty with time...
I believe they are counting on that so you'll discard the old stuff in favor of buying the new bling!
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Then I will tell them something like "Why not both"
MIDI is still not dead yet, but Non-PA-Rack-Equipment nearly is, isn't it?
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Yes, almost.
I'm not giving up mine though, it sounds too good.
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IMHO, calling 19" rack gear and MIDI a dead horse is kindof the same as what happened in the mid 1990's, and yet, rack gear returned.
I agree that just currently, by far most non-pro players don't use it; however, a good number of [semi] pro's do - just check how many use things like the Digitech GSP-1101, the rack version of the Masonic-looking German toaster, the Fractal Audio devices, and the rack versions of the Torpedo.
I often see discussions about rack gear over at sevenstring.org, though I'll agree most setups do revolve around amps and pedals.
As such, I think any producer will/should/must evaluate which type of market specific gear is intended to cater to: The amateur/semi-pro, the touring semi-pro/pros, the studio-centric market..
It really shouldn't be too difficult designing gear where the electronics is laid out to be easily retro-fitted to both pedal layout and rack.
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Sinn,
I'm not saying it's a dead horse. What I'm saying is that as far as rack gear for guitar systems like ours is practically nil. I don't know about the Digitech because I've never tried one, but the Fractal Audio is a modeller. Depending on the controls you are given in these types of units, You can get some cool tones, but the truth is, they aren't a true reproduction of the real thing, they are different. The newest hot thing on the market now seems to be the Kemperer Profiler, which comes in both the toaster and rack version. Supposedly, you can sample all your favorite vintage amps into it, and take it to any gig and have all your tones there in one compact unit. A pretty cool idea, but my question would be this: After you sample the sound of your favorite Marshall '59 Plexi for example, what happens if you tweak it a little? Does it tweak like the Marshall, or does it tweak differently according to the Kemperer controls?
Even with rack mount preamps, it's not the same. If you recall, several years ago, I reproduced my favorite tones that were in my 1967 Vox combo before I got rid of it. I put these tones in my MP-2's. Now, while I got good results with the tones I was recreating, if I go to tweak them a little, it doesn't respond like the Vox, it responds like the MP-2 which is different. I'm not saying it's bad, I'm only saying it's different.
Harley 8)
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I find it interesting that we live in a time where amp/ pedal builders are trying to add their own spin to classic circuits, but no-one has tried to make a clone of the MP-1. I'm aware that the electronics are different from that of a Plexi, but with the schematic, knowledge, and time, it's probably doable.
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Well.. the thing with copying specifically the MP-1 and bringing such a device to market is that it is almost purely a preamp.
I don't think too many manufacturers would have the itch to try marketing a purebred preamp, because they would read the market trend - and I believe rightly so - that customers will likely want build-in effects, and suddenly it's a much different [development] game.
Just look at the differences in complexity between the MP-1 and the MP-2, at least when considering analog implementations..
Due to the costs of complex analog circuitry, by far most complex modern devices gets implemented in digital - which has the benefit of being post-upgradeable through firmware updates.
Now, this doesn't preclude designing a hybrid analog/digital device, featuring, say, the whole preamp, pre-EQ and wah section in analog (and of course with tubes), combined with a digital effects section, just.. who'll take the plunge..?
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I find it interesting that we live in a time where amp/ pedal builders are trying to add their own spin to classic circuits, but no-one has tried to make a clone of the MP-1. I'm aware that the electronics are different from that of a Plexi, but with the schematic, knowledge, and time, it's probably doable.
I beg to differ. There have been many followers since the introduction of the MP-1 in 1987, and all of them have been well known and established companies that have been around for a long time. In 1987, we only saw the ADA MP-1 as far as rack mounted preamps, but in the following year, Fender introduced a solid state rack mount two channel switching preamp based on it's R.A.D. combo amps at the time, and Marshall also introduced a solid state rack mount preamp, based on one of it's combo amps at the time. Neither one impressed anyone. Also, Rocktron and Scholtz R&D brought out their first rackmount preamp offerings. Soldano also introduced the X-77 switchable two channel preamp based on their SLO-100 preamp section. By 1989, every amp builder had a rack mounted preamp on the market and each one of these had their own spin on what a preamp should be.
Ultimately, the trend for rack gear fizzled in the 90's as it required some thought to select and build a good quality rack amplification system, which unfortunately, most guitar players hate to do. Marshall ultimately developed the JMP-1, which was their best selling rack mount preamp. Fender on the other hand did develop a prototype tube preamp, and integrated tube power amp, ( RP-1 and RA-1) in a rack mounted format, but they didn't make it to production. Instead, Fender opted to stay with something they were best known for in amplification and that led to the introduction of the Cyber-Twin Amp. Basically, it was a programmable preamp using two 12AX7 tubes, with the ability to store amp tones and effects into preset banks. The main difference being you just dialed in the knobs to get the sounds you wanted, and saved them. The user interface was just more friendly with the amp knobs instead of membrane switches like we use on the MP-1, MP-2, etc.
Once again, even though this was easy to use, the purists like to argue that it's not a real amp, so even that was discontinued a few years ago. So you see, they did build preamps, and amplifiers based on the MP-1 designs with their own spins on them. It's just not a popular choice with the simple-minded guitar player who wants a guitar, a cable and an amp, and just turn it up and go.
Harley 8)
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^ What he said.
But what's really funny is the guitarists who can't seem to get a grip on a simple preamp/fx unit/poweramp system controlled by a midi controller....but instead use a multi-tiered pedalboard so big it's articulated with rear-steer with 50 pedals on it, because that's so much easier. Lol
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^ What he said.
But what's really funny is the guitarists who can't seem to get a grip on a simple preamp/fx unit/poweramp system controlled by a midi controller....but instead use a multi-tiered pedalboard so big it's articulated with rear-steer with 50 pedals on it, because that's so much easier. Lol
I couldn't agree more. I think it's hilarious to hit three pedals after a solo, but I see it. taptaptap :facepalm:
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Well, to be a touch fair to the pedal board: It does present an easily overviewed graphical representation of all those cool gadgets, simply because of all the different shapes and colors ;)
Plus, when one single effect doesn't behave as wanted, it'll be nicely easy to swap that pedal for another. In a new color. Kindof like buying new shoes :lol:
Else, I'll agree to agree with the rest of your agreements on agreeing to agree. On the sanity of MIDI programmable setups, that is..
Reflecting on Kim's comment on not being able to handle the MIDI setup, it could be as simple as not being able to visualize the effects chains [hidden from plain sight] within that multi-multi programmable box.
This is actually how I in general see our modern western society derailing: That the peoples seems to have less and less memory of their history as a peoples, and prefer something around them that's easily and immediately recognizable.
I wonder if I'm on the wrong on this, or if there's a connection between the lack of understanding the virtual MIDI setup and the dummyfication of the masses.. :dunno: Mmnn.. did I (as usual) take it a Bit to far? :dunno:
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Hey Sinn,
No, I don't think you took it too far. I tend to agree with you in fact, about how society as a whole is trending towards stupidity more progressively every year, particularly here in the USA. It seems no one wants to think anymore. No one wants to delve into technology deeper, and unlock it's full potential in the world of guitar players. It's a shame actually.
Just like Kim said above, they snub their noses at a rack system in favor of a guitar, an amp, and a pedal board the size of New Hampshire. If you watch some of these guys when they are playing a gig, it looks like they are trying to stamp out a small fire on stage, but that's easier. :lol:
Originally, when I got my Ground Control/GCX system, it was designed to plug in all those pedals into the GCX, and control all the pedal switching from the Ground Control, with a single button tap, but doing it the other way mentioned above is easier. :crazy:
The nice thing about the Ground Control/GCX system is that I can use it to switch all my ADA Rack effects in/out of the signal chain in two ways: either putting the effect in or out of the signal chain by means of the loops, or using the loop output as a momentary switch to turn the effect on or off in the chain. But here is the real bonus; The Ground Control can handle eight MIDI units, sending instructions to each one on their own independent MIDI channel! This includes continuous control, or Real Time MIDI, (in the case of the MP-2), by plugging two passive volume pedals into the Ground Control. MIDI assignments are set up the same way as they would be with the MXC, Quad Switch, and CCP.
Uh oh, am I getting too deep into thought here? I must be a bad guitar player :nono:
Harley 8)
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Imagine some poor sucker wanting to switch their amp from Overdrive with light Reverb fx to Clean with Phaser, Delay, and Chorus fx.....and then back to Overdrive with Pitch Shift in the same song. :crazy:
Oh wait. I'm that sucker, except I'll do it with just one tap of a button thank you. Stupid outdated dinosaur equipment.... ;)
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Rack gear always sounds better then pedals also and like Kim says it's much easier to control just with the push of one single button in stead of pushing 5 buttons in 1 second ;D
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I think we have a better chance of getting Engl or Hughes and Kettner to build rack gear that is MIDI controlled, as both companies embrace the concepts that ADA pioneered. The price of their gear through, ouch.
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I think we have a better chance of getting Engl or Hughes and Kettner to build rack gear that is MIDI controlled, as both companies embrace the concepts that ADA pioneered. The price of their gear through, ouch.
Unless there is surge in rack gear for guitar players again, I have serious doubts if any company is going to go that route again. As far as preamps go, thing will probably stay low keyed with a few underground boutique techs building clones of channel switching preamps.
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I have an H&K Switchblade 50w 1x12 combo that sounds fantastic and has midi with some basic chorus/delay/flanger effects built in. 4 channels and the lead cleans up really nicely with the volume pedal or guitar knob. The Ultra channel is great for solos but muddy's up a bit for rhythm.
I have the original EL34 model without the TSC circuit.
Here's a YT video of it from the company. I'll try to do a video demo this week. It's not as good as my ADA rig of course but it works great for impromptu jams, etc. If I never had ADA gear I'd be very happy with it.
https://youtu.be/Dp87OZ7q3zs (https://youtu.be/Dp87OZ7q3zs)
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Hey Panda,
That's very similar to what I have with my Fender Cyber Deluxe. Good for small clubs and jam situations without having to haul a ton of gear around.
Harley 8)
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Folks I'm new here but got very excited when I saw this thread! Very interesting read for sure and it will be interesting to see how this proceeds. But I am amazed at the support of this topic seeing just how many loyal ADA users there are world wide!
What a great forum!
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Hi DJC,
We'd all like to see a new pre/power amp rack set up come from ADA, but it doesn't look like it's going to happen in the near future.
So far, the current pedals are all they seem to be interested in doing.
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I'd like to offer a few Bits..
I don't think it's a matter of merely all they're interested in doing, but rather their evaluation of what sells the most these days, coupled with how much energy is available for new developments.
Things happens in everybody's life, and I think some has had their fill..
Besides this, I think relaunching the MP-1 as-is would be a mistake; modernizations and add-ons are needed to suit the modern market.
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Hey Sinn,
It's true the market defines the demand for certain products. Unfortunately, I think rack gear will forever be associated with the excess of the 80's, so it's unlikely that there will be a resurgence in that area, but I could be wrong about that.
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Mmm, my take on it is (and from what Monty was saying) they are actually interested in making a new say, MP3, but (my guess) it isn't so straight forward. And at the end of the day, it is a commercial decision, will whatever it is sell ? and justify the R&D etc. For what its worth, and from where I sit, there are 3 main protagonists (euphemistically), the profilers, the cloners and the analogue real thing, so how far would you go with a MP3 to include the digital jiggery pokery ?
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Hey Richard,
IMHO, the best thing about all the ADA preamps is that they were never modelers of any kind, they were genuine preamps with distinct amp sounds of their own.
The digital domain has it's place and is useful in small amounts, but I wouldn't rely on it entirely. For example: the Kemper Profiler is basically another name for a modeling amp. It samples a sound at a certain setting, and tries to keep it there at all levels which is not the way the actual amp works, that it takes it's sample from.
If the market is any indication of what I'm saying, it should be obvious by the lower powered amps that are out there. It seems that the amps you find these days are designed to give you the response that you would get with the bigger amps, but at more "bedroom-friendly" levels, so that you don't need to worry about the neighbors calling the police on you in the middle of recording your favorite solo on your computer!
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Hey Harley, totally agree, When I first got a MP1 I ran up my own distinct sounds and still do. I got loaned a Kemper a while ago for the weekend, it is well thought out etc but it profiled a bunch of amps I don't like and would never buy. A good tool however if you wanted to mimic allot of different setups I spose, but I don't. I contemplated making a MP2 impulse for it just to try it out but never bothered in the end. I'm quite happy (well more than happy >:D ) with MP2, MB1 and MP1 and the tones I get from them.
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I just got my Kemper Profiler and am looking forward to creating profiles of all my amps, including the ADA gear.
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Hey GB, cool, look forward to your results :thumb-up:
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Hey GB let us know how that works out.
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Someone profiled the Mp-1 on Bais Amp. I have it and its pretty nice.
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Mmnn.. it's the same with profiling as with women: pretty nice ain't like really lovely..
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Just like with women, sound is subjective ;)
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Just like with women, sound is subjective ;)
;D :thumb-up:
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Just like with women, sound is subjective ;)
;D :thumb-up:
I must agree with you, guys.
Even if I like and use digital technology since long time, I never heard the profile of something with 100% same sound of an original.
I'm not a Kemper fan, to be honest.
I can use a good audio interface with a PC and software and impulses and headphones to play home or study, no problem.
But I cannot say that I found emulations that have the same sound, tone and feel of original tube amps.
No way.
If you like the MP-1, buy a real MP-1.
Today, it's cheap enough. :banana-jazz-smiley-emoticon:
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Hey Max, couldn't agree more, if you can make the real sound with the real gadget/thing, why emulate.. :dunno: . Now I do understand why some do this, (and if I couldn't have a MP-2 anymore I'd want to emulate it).
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The real advantage with a Kemper is that you can profile tons of stuff...but you've to be smart and profile in a good way.
Anyway, I don't like the Kemper overall sound...even the version with power amp connected to a 4x12 cab.
Then...you can profile a lot of stuff....but, unless you're a pro working live and in the studio for many different people, the main question is: do you really need ALL that stuff??? :banana-jazz-smiley-emoticon:
At a small fraction of a Kemper's price, you can buy MP-1s, MP-2s, other non ADA preamps (like the good Rocktron Piranha), digital FX units and MIDI controllers...and have exactly THOSE tones. :headbanger:
So...why emulate??? :dunno:
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The whole emulation thing is an interesting topic! I have an MP-2 at the heart of one rig, and am working on a second rig. I have gotten very interested in the DV Mark Multiamp. It's difficult to find one to play in person where I live, but nearly every YouTube clip I've seen makes it sound very good. The appeal to me is that I could have a MIDI preamp, some decent basic effects, and a 500w (SS) power amp, all combined in a single lightweight 2-space rack unit. I could downsize and simplify my rig considerably, assuming the tone was there, which I know is a big assumption. They do have some serious players who endorse it, for what it's worth. I'm not totally convinced I'd be happy with the sound as opposed to real tubes, but it is tempting!
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...
So...why emulate??? :dunno:
Because a headless axe and the Masonic Toaster in a sports bag is a helluvalot easier to travel with..
Slapping cans on your head works well with it too - and keeps the screaming from the next hotel room at bay ;)
If you happen to be traveling, that is..
EDIT: Not that I'm a traveling axeman anyways, just that we've had numerous discussions about compact ergo guitars on sevenstring.org (search for Strandberg).
Also, while I do like the applications of the Kemper, I, like several commentators in here, feels that while it does capture the tone quite nice, it still just doesn't provide the real feel..
Speaking about traveling.. someone made a guitar with a sideways hinged neck. featuring a proverbial heavy-duty bearing, allowing to fold the neck down the side of the body. Talk about traveling gear.. :bow:
Mmnn.. is this still the ADA re-make thread? Tarnowsky must be slightly confused by now :lol:
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...
So...why emulate??? :dunno:
Because a headless axe and the Masonic Toaster in a sports bag is a helluvalot easier to travel with..
Slapping cans on your head works well with it too - and keeps the screaming from the next hotel room at bay ;)
If you happen to be traveling, that is..
This is a very good point, indeed... :))