ADA Depot - A Forum To Support Users of ADA Amplification Gear
Non ADA Gear => Guitars => Topic started by: rabidgerry on June 24, 2015, 09:39:09 AM
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Hey RG, very nice :thumb-up: I like the coolur too ! I have a FR Schaler on my tel which is exactly like that one (much shorter bridge string allen bolts). Re the 009's, just go 010's and re adjust the bridge, the 010 - 46 will give you bigger notes, and work well with that scale length (25 1/2") and don't go out of tune as much when you belt them >:D . The other addition worth considering in a Hipshot tremsetter, had one in my Anderson for years, makes FR even better :thumb-up:
I don't understand a trem setter? I cannot do upward bends on this strat anyways because there is no cut away for the base plate, however I do no understand what a trem setter is for really, does it not prevent upward bends? The only thing I understand about it is it keeps it stable should a string bring right?
Really don't think that's enough for me to buy one.
I dunno bout 9's man, they sound great on this axe. I think they are 9's because I am able to bend about 5 frets or something and it's really easy. It also seems to bring out a lot more expressive vibrato. I probably will stick 10's on there hahaha I haven't changed in 15 years.
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Gerry -
I just bought a guitar recently that had 9s on it, and I felt like I could bend a hundred frets up....also, they kinda felt like thin rubber bands and lacked sustain. I'm sticking with the 10s
Sorry, i don't know enough about the tremsetter to enlighten you, I'm hoping Richard enlightens both of us at the same time :banana-upsidedown:
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Gerry -
I just bought a guitar recently that had 9s on it, and I felt like I could bend a hundred frets up....also, they kinda felt like thin rubber bands and lacked sustain. I'm sticking with the 10s
Sorry, i don't know enough about the tremsetter to enlighten you, I'm hoping Richard enlightens both of us at the same time :banana-upsidedown:
Hey Inferno (Dantes - see what I did there :) :facepalm: )
I'm not making this up, but this guitar sustains um how do I put it........................really well!! I can't believe that because it's a strat, has a shitty small sustain block, and aobviously a bolt on neck. I held a note with no vibrato for at least a few seconds.
Just in case I was may be drunk I'm going to check that out again because I was really surprised. Really surprised. It wasn't super long everywhere, like the last two frets where pretty standard I thought, but I'll check result again. Was playing last night. The stock pup handles gain well (another surprise), the single coild need to have gain dialed down to smooth them out also with the trebel knob rolled down a bit.
I think I'm falling in love with that guitar. The question is now, how far do I "roid it up"?
How can I tell if the trem is worth keeping? Normally the only thing I know to test if a trem is steel or not is with a magnet. Any ideas about this one? Shit licensed bridges I have come across never have saddles that are steel so magnet will not stick, but I'm pretty sure a magnet stuck to the saddles on that FR II. I think I will swap the pickups out, I have a cheapo brand I want to test out. Anyone heard of these guy? http://www.caliguitar.com/pickup/guitar_pickups.htm (http://www.caliguitar.com/pickup/guitar_pickups.htm)
I suspect if my research is correct, these may be Artec specially made for the brand in the states. The quality build wise is second to none. Sound wise I will just have to see. I bought a model that only comes in black and I have recently been experimenting with air brushing to see if I can change the colour of the pickup bobbins to match the other single coils I bought (I want to keep the original colour scheme). So far with some trial and error I have successfully air brushed the bobbins white in a fairly professional smooth and even paint finish. I used acrylic enamle paint which will not affect tone since it contains no metal elements. The paint is a little more "ice white" than the slightly warmer white plastic of the single coil pup covers but we will see how the match up.
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Ok the hipshot tremsetter (http://store.hipshotproducts.com/cart.php?m=product_detail&p=115), brings your floating bridge back to central/neutral, resists pull up when you bend (which detunes other strings), and also helps eliminate bridge flutter. It does add a little more pressure required to your whammy bar action, but not that much. It just makes your floating trem really reliable.
I've had one in my Anderson from when they first came out, works a treat (see photos).
I can go from full whamy down (strings falling off the board) and let it go, back to perfect pitch every time, these things work really well :thumb-up: Been using it for over 25 years! Highly recommend them for all floating whamys.
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Ok the hipshot tremsetter (http://store.hipshotproducts.com/cart.php?m=product_detail&p=115), brings your floating bridge back to central/neutral, resists pull up when you bend (which detunes other strings), and also helps eliminate bridge flutter. It does add a little more pressure required to your whammy bar action, but not that much. It just makes your floating trem really reliable.
I've had one in my Anderson from when they first came out, works a treat (see photos).
I can go from full whamy down (strings falling off the board) and let it go, back to perfect pitch every time, these things work really well :thumb-up: Been using it for over 25 years! Highly recommend them for all floating whamys.
I hope this doesn't sound really dumb Richard, but isn't the whole point of a floyd rose locking trem is that when you whammy it does come back and return to pitch? Why would one want one of these then? I see the point of this if I had no locks and just had the plain old two pivot bridge.
Are pull ups possible? Like when you bend the floyd rose to give an upward string bend?
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Hey RG, I hear you, the FR floaters with locking bits were a big move forward from the traditional strats but they still have issues. When you do a big bend, the other strings detune (tremsetter makes this much less a problem), when you belt it the bridge sometimes wants to flutter (tremsetter calms this down), when you do a huge up or down whammy, tremsetter brings you back to neutral (much much better than not having it :thumb-up: ). I've got an original FR on my Anderson, I put the tremsetter on when it first came out here in Oz, it improved my "in tune ness" amazingly. Seriously, I highly recommend the tremsetter !! The only down side is the whammy action is a little stiffer, but the being in tune is just so much better.... I've used it now for over 25 years, I don't recommend it lightly :wave:
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Well all my jacksons have floyd trems and i have only problems 2 or 3 days after i change my strings and then no problems at all.I can yank these ,make divebombs ,abuse them ,they always return to their pitch.
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When you do a big bend, the other strings detune
^^This. +1
I never had a problem with FRs returning to pitch. The problem is when doing a single bend while simultaneously sounding another stationary note on another string. The stationary note goes flat duing the bend.
I worked around the problem by blocking my FR (acutally Ibanez Edge I). Functionally it's like a fixed bridge that can dive b*mb. Tradeoff is I can't pull up, but I don't do that anyway.
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My trems are all blocked too - so much easier to change strings, and I don't bend up anyways (truth: I do on my Kahler sometimes)
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don't block mine,like i said no problems here.
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Same as MJMP.... I have 3 Ibanez LoPro EDGE, 1 EDGE Pro and 1 Gotoh GE1996....all floating and no probs at all.
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Same as MJMP and SC
I have never had an issue with Floyd Rose or Licensed Floyd Rose trems going out of tune when I dive b*mb or any other use for that matter. Unless the locks are off at the nut of course.
The only trems to ever do this in my experience are trems that
A) either have the lock behind the nut (like my westone dimension see pics) so behave like a vintage trem almost
B) A vintage or non locking trem
A floyd rose style bridge with a locking nut does not go out of tune if you dive b*mb it or pull up unless it's faulty, this is the whole point of locking at the bridge and the nut.
I have 9 (actually 10 cause I'm selling one) guitars with floyd rose (most of them licensed versions as well) and they return to pitch when I dive b*mb till the strings stick to the pickups and string bend to my hearts content.
The only guitar that has locks that behaves different is the westone because it has it's locks are behind the nut as opposed to being on the nut like FR loaded guitars.
I have seen fenders with locks behind the nut also. This is a pretty silly idea because it will still behave like a vintage trem really and when I say that I mean:
it will go out of tune if you use the trem - unless you tune it after trem use then it will stay in tune with trem use but then go out of tune if you string bend to which you will need to use the trem to get it back in tune again.
I spent many years trying to get vintage trems on a strat to stay in tune using both methods (string bends and trem use) and I never beat it. Then I moved to FR locking trems, ISSUE RESOLVED >:D
The only time I need to tinker with tuning on locking systems is due to heat changes. Ireland is cold and going from cold to hot f*cks with the tuning sometimes. Actually sometimes this can happen just by playing a guitar and it heats up, the strings go flat (I'm talking minimal) because the metal expands slightly with the heat. Still they are in tune together at least when this happens.
Well all my jacksons have floyd trems and i have only problems 2 or 3 days after i change my strings and then no problems at all.I can yank these ,make divebombs ,abuse them ,they always return to their pitch.
If I stretch my strings well this does not happen other wise I know what you mean.
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My strings stay in tune from the start, I give them a bit of a stretch before I lock them off at the nut. The tremsetter really helps allot when you bend one note while playing 2, which I do quite a bit, it greatly improves the stability of the bridge, I didn't have a return to pitch issue, as you guys say, the FR is very good for staying in tune. Also when I do bends I don't have to overbend as far.
Anyway, works well for me :thumb-up:
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It might be a good idea for my westone actually since it basically behaves like a vintage trem (outta tune after I bend the strings unless I hit the trem again to reset the tuning which works but is annoying as f*ck)
Here is what I mean in this link.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O0Oyc6slYRc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O0Oyc6slYRc)
I basically discovered this myself back in the day, but I can't f*cked with it anymore hence FR. But I'd love to eliminate this behaviour on my westone.
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Might be another way to address that issue:
Swap the Nut (cheapo plastic, worn out by now) for a Graph Tech Tusq nut (http://www.graphtech.com/products/brands/black-tusq-xl)....
I put one on my *pimp-my-cheapo* Cort GL HSS Strat (which has a Wilkinson VS Trem, also floating) and that one stays in tune perfectly (although non-locking)....
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Might be another way to address that issue:
Swap the Nut (cheapo plastic, worn out by now) for a Graph Tech Tusq nut (http://www.graphtech.com/products/brands/black-tusq-xl)....
I put one on my *pimp-my-cheapo* Cort GL HSS Strat (which has a Wilkinson VS Trem, also floating) and that one stays in tune perfectly (although non-locking)....
I have often wondered about TUSQ nuts. My nut is a good nut actually, it's a graphite one which is supposed to be good for trems because it's slippery. The nut is cut well also as I had my luthier cut it to take 10's as opposed to 9's. The problem is just that same issue the guy in the video link I posted is talking about. It just cannot be avoided unless you have the locks at the actual nut. Sorta defeats the purpose of having locks in the first place having them behind the nut. You'd have the same issue with locking tuners.
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I have a guitar without locking tuners & ordered a Tusque nut for it. I'll let you know how it works
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The Tusque nuts look very interesting, I'd still go for a Tremsetter as well, it should fix the annoying "hit the trem again". They were originally designed to make strat trems workable and aren't very expensive ~$50.
Hey Dante, look forward to your results with the Tusque.
Interesting though, way back when I bought the Tremsetter for my Anderson was when the first PRS guitars came to Australia (very expensive, $6k way back then (1985(ish))), they were the first guitars I'd seen with locking machine heads and the non locking trem worked really well, I think they had graphite nuts as well.
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If the trem setter is designed to stop the silly stupidness of strat style trems I'd defo get one. On;y I am afraid to do anything at all to my westone because it's in such good condition for its age and despite some of the butchered versions out there where people have heavily modified I think I like the idea of keeping it stock. DAMMIT!
Guys I have a question actually about a strat I own. Perhaps wrong place to post this but I just want a quick answer. I had a guy a few years back butcher my beloved (first guitar I ever owned) Korean squire strat. He fitted an LSR roller nut to it really badly. This required cutting wood to fit the roller nut. He did this badly. I have never played the guitar since!!! :( Because it rattles the f**king truss rod now!! Anyways. It shouldn't do that. But what I would like to know is. This silly gap I now have to fit an LSR roller nut, can this be filled in again some how to accommodate either a regular nut or a tusq nut? I would like to bring my strat back to the way it was (single coils and everything - but I'll get super hot one :) )
I look at that guitar and really regret what that guy did to it. I never used him ever again. Another thing, would it be too big a job to get a Floyd rose and locking nut fitted? Just toying with these ideas. Poor Strat! 1996 it is.
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Have a look at the video on the hipshotproducts.com site. He demonstrates fitting a tremsetter to a strat (which was the original purpose of tremsetter). You drill 2 small holes for the mounting screws (or one in my case as I have short rear cavity) and one larger hole at the back of the cavity for the centre rod.
Can you post a pick of the nut area on your strat. Getting a FR fitted is probably the best way to go. Make sure it's strat spacings (widths (nut and bridge)) and bridge saddle heights/curve matches your fingerboard radius (I had to shim some of the saddles on my tele to match the radius). I suspect you could fit a normal nut or a Tusque (use a couple of drops of superglue so it doesn't fall off etc while your stringing it). Strat nuts are curved on the bottom so require a reciprocally curved slot. I suspect all the fingerboard has been removed from the front of the original nut back toward peg head to accommodate the LSR installation ? (which you have to do for FR nut also, hence easiest fix). While it's possible to replace the wood and start over, it's more hassle than it's worth. You'd have to shape and glue some rosewood, the recut the nut slot so the bottom matches the fingerboard radius, shape and cut the nut etc.
Getting the nut string heights right so you clear the first frett is a bit tricky and sometimes (often) requires shimms under the nut. I imagine there are lots of FR install how tos on youtube.
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I got the tusq nut yesterday, it was the first time I've ever changed a nut and it was pretty easy. The Tusq is definitely a better nut, you can tell just by the feel of it, but the true test is dropping it on your frets. It makes a ping sound whereas the stock (plastic) nut made a rattling sound. The Tusq is much more dense
Soundwise, I don't know if it's all that different, I haven't played it all that much (but plan to today)
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Another alternative to the Hipshot Trem-Setter or the Tremol-No (http://www.tremol-no.com):
Rockinger Black-Box (http://www.rockinger.com/index.php?cat=WG261&lang=ENG&product=16060)
These were very famous over here with all Superstrat players in the 90s.....
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Looks quite interesting though I don't see how it would help with string bends unless you over tighten the main springs so the block is pulled against the felt stop at zero position. Certainly looks well made and one less (rather large) hole to drill. It has some advantages over the tremsetter in that if you broke a string (again depending on spring tensions) it shouldn't go any more out of tune than a fixed bridge (which do go out of tune but not by anywhere near as my as a FR).
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I have to agree with SC,i also think the nut is the problem.
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It may be just that the LSR nut install was botched (and as you say the problem). You could take it off and cut a bone (or get Tuque) nut.
The easiest nut fix (in many ways) is to get a FR locking nut installed (properly). It's actually not that hard to do but helps if you can borrow a FR nut jig as this lines up the drill holes (2 smaller holes for the bolt shafts and 2 larger counter sink holes over the top of the smaller holes so the bolt tops are sunken). And you may have to tidy the area and also use shims if required ?
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I'm not sure what any of you are talking about now? The problem with the LSR is nothing to do with the probem vintage trems have. The issue with the LSR I asked if I could get the LSR basically replaced and the excessive gap that was required to fit that nut in the first place filled in or am I f*cked? The issue with the LSR is that the space requred for that nut required to go further toward the first fret than regular nuts. Why? Because the LSR has ball bearings, the ball bearings that seat the strings are not at the edge of the nut but rather in the middle. So if I put a regular nut in there and fitted flat against the side the is closest to the first fret the strings would be seated closer to the first fret than they should be. So I either want this replaced with a locking nut or regular/tusq nut if possible.
I posted a video that clearly displayed that vintage trems no matter how good the nut is cut will always go out of tune on either string bends or trem use depending on what you tune it to in the first place (that means you can retune it to stay in tune with string bends but this means it will be out of tune when you dive b*mb but to correct the tuning you will need to string bend or else you can tune it to stay in tune when you dive b*mb but this means it will go out of tune when you string bend in which case it means you will need to hit the trem to correct the tuning.) I have been told this by no less than 3 luthiers. And the dude in that video said the exact same thing. This is just an issue with vintage trems or trems that have locks behind the nut like my Westone guitar.
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Hey RG, sorry, I'm not familiar with the LSR (why I asked for a pic of it and what you've said (last post) would have been obvious). So I get it now :facepalm: you've lost from the centre of the nut rollers to the edge of finger board (off the fingerboard) because of the width of the LSR nut thing. Bummer (and I get I don't need to remind you of that :wave: ). How to fix then. If you fit a FR locknut (in the "right" place (ie where the front of the nut used to be)) (or a Tusque (but how to make it stay there) the guitar will work. There will be a gap between the "now" end of the board to the front of the nut (this shouldn't be a huge problem, but not ideal). Of these options the FR nut would be best as it is bolted in place. So then there's now a gap from front of the nut to then finger board, do you care ?? (well slightly less vibration transfer so probably yes, a bit..), cosmetically ? can you really see it ? Ok how to fill the gap (with a FR locknut bolted in you don't really need to), inlay rosewood and shape, mix rosewood sanding particles with epoxy and fill gap. The upside, is you don't play/press there, leaving the gap will decrease vibration transfer a little.
To do a normal nut (Tusque or otherwise) you have to fill the gap so they have a fingerboard to press up against.
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...I'm not familiar with the LSR ...
Here you go...including installation DIY: http://www.amazon.com/review/R3GQZUWTUN0QZX/ref=cm_cr_dp_title?ie=UTF8&ASIN=B0002KZEB8&channel=detail-glance&nodeID=11091801&store=musical-instruments (http://www.amazon.com/review/R3GQZUWTUN0QZX/ref=cm_cr_dp_title?ie=UTF8&ASIN=B0002KZEB8&channel=detail-glance&nodeID=11091801&store=musical-instruments)
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Ok even more complicated, if you can't make the LSR work for you, you have to fill that small gap between where the front of the nut is (1/16th" ? it's not big) or easiest IMO is to properly fit a FR, so you'd loose the fingerboard behind the nut and bolt in a FR nut (you'd end up with a very small gap between the nut and FB which you could put some rosewood veneer or just fill with epoxy and rosewood sawdust)
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still don't under stand these things but it seems they are all over the place in various guises
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/281376273300?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/281376273300?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT)
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Well this one just gives you a stop spot to return from down b*mb/trem. It will prevent up trem as is a fixed spot. The one SC posted also allows up trem and I suspect needs the main trem springs to be tensioned a bit more more once the central position is set, neat idea I thought and the tremsetter works for both up down trem (and I can attest works very well (over many years)) and no noise from the springs LoL.
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Just had another look at the pic (larger), it's much the same idea as the one SC posted so you can do up trem with it. So I assume to fit either of these, you tune and get the centre spot right, wind the stop until it touches block, tighten main trem springs screws a little (1/8th - 1/4 turn ? this holds the trem block against the stop, but not too much to depress the block spring).
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still don't under stand these things but it seems they are all over the place in various guises
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/281376273300?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/281376273300?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT)
I had one in a guitar, a Strat. It worked. Right now, I use a wood block in one, and a stack of picks held in with duct tape on the other :poop:
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Ahh duct tape (gaph tape, and Nashua make the best, you can build a house with it.
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Okay, I've read this topic and now I'll add my two cents.
First, I noticed RG said he can't pull up on his Strat because there is no cutout on the body for the baseplate of the tremolo. There was never supposed to be a cutout. A stock Strat bridge should float, all of mine do. The way I set up my Strats, is to align the bottom part of the stamped saddles parallel to the top of the guitar body. This allows me to pull up on the bar and raise the pitch of my G string a natural 3rd.
The Tremsetter would be handy if I broke a string in the middle of a song during a gig. As anyone with a floating tremolo knows, when that happens, the other five strings are now completely out of tune, i.e. total sonic disaster! The Tremsetter keeps the bridge centered and stops this from happening. The drawback to the Tremsetter is that it only works in one direction. So to achieve a true zero centered bridge lock, you would have to use two of them, in opposed settings. ( Steve Vai does this on his primary Jem guitar ) This also applies to all Floyd Rose Tremolos and respective licensed copies.
As for the Graphtech nuts Systematic Chaos mentioned, Sorry Bro, I don't like graphite nuts at all, they are tone-killers on my strats. Bone, Brass, or LSR is all I go with on my guitars. As with all guitars that are tremolo equipped, there will be tuning issues, but you can beat them. I have minimal tuning issues with my Strats, but that's because parts eventually wear and need to be upgraded. I'm going to be upgrading components on all three of my USA Strats, and Modding my MIK guitars. I'll be posting the mods and the results in a new thread as I complete them.
Harley
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... The drawback to the Tremsetter is that it only works in one direction. So to achieve a true zero centered bridge lock, you would have to use two of them, in opposed settings. ( Steve Vai does this on his primary Jem guitar ) This also applies to all Floyd Rose Tremolos and respective licensed copies.
Can you post a pic of that double/opposite instalation on Vai's guitar? Never seen that. :dunno:
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Hey EC,
I'll see if I can get a rear view shot of Steve's EVO guitar. That's the one he has two of them on. It's been a few years since I've seen it, but I think he had a bit of the body routed out to fit the 2nd Tremsetter. He has them both hooked into the same spring hole on the block, they're just pushing in opposite directions.
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Good to have you back in here, Harley :thumb-up:
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The hipshot tremsetter I use has 2 springs, one for up return and one for down. Unfortunately it doesn't stay in tune when you pop a string (generally I pop D strings), the other 2 types SC posted "may" stay in tune ?. Strat whammy bridges are supposed to be floating by letting the springs off and allowing the bridge to then "float" at an angle to the top (less spring more float angle but careful how much) and generally you need to loosen the 6 bridge screws a little to allow for the movement (you'll also notice the front underneath of the bridge is beveled at an angle to where the 6 screw holes start to allow for down bend). Of course many just set it to only down bend and tighten the springs so it comes back flat with the top (more reliable approach). So apart from the nut catching strings (more the wound strings), the 6 bridge screws also aren't super smooth and also catch. Then once the bridge is raised at an angle, often (mostly) you have to shim the front of the neck to get the action down. Thus later strats had the 3 bolt system for the neck with the centre/front bolt adjusting the neck angle (adjustable shim). But these are cursed with easy sideways movement of the neck (a known issue of the day, IIRC they fixed it later by putting back the other 2 screws but keeping the centre adjusting screw). This also cuts down the vibration transfer from neck to body (typically not desirable).
I recall the first PRS in Australia ($6k and that was way back), it's the only strat style bridge I've come across that ever worked reasonably well, it also had locking machine heads (first I'd seen them) and a graphite nut.
I put a Ghoto trem on my tele, had fine tuners and a locking nut, 2 bolt knife edge, it's a while ago and I think I had it come back flat with the top ?. Since then I copied my Anderson's routing and put on a fully floating FR which you can get down to the correct height for action and not have to tilt the neck.
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Hey EC,
I'll see if I can get a rear view shot of Steve's EVO guitar. That's the one he has two of them on. It's been a few years since I've seen it, but I think he had a bit of the body routed out to fit the 2nd Tremsetter. He has them both hooked into the same spring hole on the block, they're just pushing in opposite directions.
Are you talking about this? Are they actually pushing in different directions?
(http://www.vai.com/minisites/EVO/images/large_images/hrdwre_LRG03.jpg)
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Hey El, it's like putting 2 of the ones SC posted in, the main springs bring the block onto the stops (that sets centre), if you pull up the springs in the setters bring it back. The Hipshot combines both, does it work as well ???, I'm happy with mine >:D
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Okay, I've read this topic and now I'll add my two cents.
First, I noticed RG said he can't pull up on his Strat because there is no cutout on the body for the baseplate of the tremolo. There was never supposed to be a cutout. A stock Strat bridge should float, all of mine do.
Yes, I didn't say it was weird that I couldn't pull up, I understand why. I just said I couldn't pull up because there is no cut out section like say on a "superstrat guitar". Unless the strat has specifically had the routing done to it for a custom model or something or signature model may be. I also was not talking about "stock Strat" or should I say a standard strat with a vintage trem installed (since you can buy a stock strat with an FR installed) I was talking about strats with floyd rose style trems fitted.
So my thinking was perhaps a good candidate to fit one of these trem setter devices to might be one of my stratocasters because they do no allow for up bend anyways so therefore I'm not losing out on any functionality on a guitar if I fit one.
But in all honesty I am failing to see the need for them at all.
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Hey RG, if your trem comes back flat with the top then they are of little use to you (depending on your main spring tensions). If you have your main string tensions tight (ish), then it will come back to the top and that's your "zero" point. If when you bend notes it pulls the bridge up, then either tighten main strings (heavier trem/bend action) or a tremsetter would help (but they also increase the feel/presure required on the whammy bar as it's much the same thing (adding tremsetter springs in the mix) and in the end I suspect much the same result. The various tremsetters are designed for floating bridges. Having 2 like the SV pic is (to me) just adding extra force. What you want is the bridge to come back to its zero point from either an up trem or down trem. If your guitar routing doesn't allow for up trem, then just adjust the main springs to pull it back flat to/on the top and not raise too much (or at all) when you increase tension (bend notes).
If your routing allows for up trem, then the tremstters can help. With Strats, they are designed to be floating (but not a great design...). so the bridge sits at an angle to the top. To get the action reasonable, you have to (significantly) lower the string saddles and also change the neck angle (shim the front (slivers of old credit card(s) works..)).
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Wow, I waited too long to get back to this thread, there's a lot of different replies to address!
First, let me share a few tricks I've picked up over the years about the vintage Strat tremolo and the best results I've been able to get. Richard, Yes, the six screws will catch after time because they wear from the pressure and friction of the bridge fulcrum points. Those are cheap and easy to replace, so when they bind, it's time to change them.
Now this is very important to the performance of the tremolo, when you set these screws for the bridge action, what you need to do is have the strings off the guitar so the base plate is hard against the body. Then, tighten the six screws down until the bottom of the screw heads are flat onto the base plate. At this point, you want to check the base plate and be sure you are not raising it off the body, that would mean one or more are too tight. Now, back off the four center screws a half turn. this should clear the screw heads from the top of the base plate. Make sure the two outer screws are still flush with the top of the base plate. This is the way to get the best performance from the Vintage Strat tremolo bridge. Now string up your guitar, and bring the tension up so you can set the angle of the bridge. I adjust the spring claw to get mine where I want them. With the vintage stamped saddles, I use the bottom of the saddle on my top "E" string as a visual reference, and when I see that part of the bridge is parallel with the top of the guitar body, with the guitar in tune, then I know I'm set.
As Richard mentioned, the nut is also a problematic area for stock Strats. The tuning machines are also another contributor to this nuisance, and depending on what type of tuning machines your guitar is equipped with, the string trees can also contribute to this. Here is how I solved this issue:
For a nut that catches the string(s), I first make sure that the string groove is clean and clear of debris. (This is assuming that you've had the nut overhauled, and the grooves are filed clean and smooth, and not factory rough cut!) I went to a music store where horns and woodwinds are sold, and bought a bottle of Selmer Cork Grease. This is not the wax stick, this is a bottle of liquid grease. When I change strings, I clean the nut grooves out with an old toothbrush, and a little of the guitar polish. A can of compressed air, will blow out anything that's still in the nut groove after I scrub it out. Re-string your guitar and bring the tuning up. After the guitar is tuned, lift each string out of the nut groove, one at a time, and add a tiny drop of this Cork Grease in the groove, and then place the string back in the groove. I use this technique on my Seafoam Green Strat, because it's the only one I still have a bone nut in it. It also has the original Vintage Kluson tuning machines on it, (I'm going to address the tuning machines next). I can dive b*mb that guitar, pull up harmonic bends, and go toe to toe with any guitar that has a Floyd on it! This little trick really stops the nut-binding!
Now, the tuning machines...here is an area that really makes a difference in the tuning stability. Locking tuners are fine, depending on the style you have in. I have locking tuners on two of my USA Strats, (1983 57' RI, and 1980 "STRAT"). The 57'RI, has Gotoh Vintage Retrofit locking tuners, which worked fine when they were new. I had these installed in 1993 when I first bought this guitar, because two of the tuners were broken at the split shaft when I saw it in the store. Now they are worn and aren't really holding the tuning as stable as they once did. I'm going to replace these with the original vintage Kluson style tuning machines. Yes, they work as well as locking tuners if you cut the string to the correct length, and install them the way they were designed. When I'm re-stringing these tuners, I pull the string through the bridge and hold it at dead stop, then I press the string over the bridge saddle, to put a bend in there where it will rest when in tune. This helps stop the slack string from slipping back into the bridge while I'm cutting the length on the other end. Pull the string past the post it's going to go into, 1-1/4" to 1-1/2" inch. (heavier strings 1-1/2", plain strings, 1-1/4"), and cut there. Insert the cut end of the string into the post all the way down until it stops. Then bend the string out the side of the post and hold it there with the tip of your finger, as you wind the string up to tension. Slip the string into the nut groove and under the string tree, (if it has one), and tune it up. Repeat this with each string. When the guitar is tuned to the desired pitch, stretch the strings. I use a Fender String Stretcher, it works great! This is the way to set up the vintage style tuners and they will work as well as locking tuners, no kidding!
The other issue is the String Trees. I replaced the original "T" style String Trees on the 57'RI with Ezyglide String Trees. These work great if you have locking tuners that have the same height string posts. They won't bind. If your locking tuners have staggered posts like Sperzel Tuners that I have on my 1980 "STRAT," then don't use String Trees at all. I don't know why, but they mess with the tuning.
I hope these tips help you guys who still struggle with the vintage stock trems on your Strats. It's really made a world of difference with me.
RG, I agree with you on the Strats with the Floyds already installed. There is no need to have a Tremsetter on those. They make them like that because this is how EVH has his guitars set up. The only advantage to that is if you break a string, the rest of your strings won't detune because of it.
EC, Not that style Tremsetter. THe ones Steve has are top mount in the Tremolo cavity, and have a hook that inserts in the spring hole on the block. Steve's guitar doesn't have the center spring, that is where one of the Tremsetters is mounted, and the other one is hooked into the same hole, but the back of the guitar body is routed with a groove, past the opening for the block, where he has the other one mounted. I don't know how he has these adjusted, so I I didn't give it too much consideration for any of my guitars.
Richard, The 3- bolt design is actually a very good idea. What screwed that up was at the time, Fender was owned by CBS who was all about the money. The more guitars they built in a month on their production schedules the sloppier the workmanship. They didn't mind sacrificing quality for numbers. 1979 was the worst year for this. It was the highest volume production year for Stratocasters, but also, it was the year that more guitars were returned to the factory from the music store dealers to have that neck pocket issue corrected. Leo Fender had a very good design there, his idea was sound. Corporate greed got in the way of it!
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Hey Harley, great tips :thumb-up: I like the string grease idea. You could also use teflon (I have some for my push bike wheel hubs and chain so got it from a bike store). Though my 2 guitars with (working) trems (Anderson, profile Tele) both have FR with a Hipshot tremsetter. I find the trem setter on a FR gives better bridge stability, not so much about returning to "zero", that wasn't a problem but significantly less detune of other strings when bending and reduced "flutter" when I belt them ( >:D ), as Angry Anderson (Rose Tattoo) puts it, no one attacks a guitar quite like an Australian >:D . CBS were not good for strats.... IIRC that's when schecter started making decent custom versions (and Tom Anderson was one their R&D guys), I have one of the first couple he made when he set up on his own (a red Pro Am) and the first in Oz. I've not played a better guitar yet. I loved the JP Les Paul when I bough it (and still do) but it's no where near as good as the Pro Am.
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EC, Not that style Tremsetter. THe ones Steve has are top mount in the Tremolo cavity, and have a hook that inserts in the spring hole on the block. Steve's guitar doesn't have the center spring, that is where one of the Tremsetters is mounted, and the other one is hooked into the same hole, but the back of the guitar body is routed with a groove, past the opening for the block, where he has the other one mounted. I don't know how he has these adjusted, so I I didn't give it too much consideration for any of my guitars.
Then I REALLY want to see a picture or video of that! :whoohoo!:
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To mount them such that both setters share the same block hole is interesting, I suspect the hole would need to be enlarged to accommodate them. having recently installed one in my tele, it was hard enough to get the angle right for it to fit the hole (and it is tight!).
I use 3 main springs, 2 on bass side 1 on treble, and the tremsetter in the centre, works great with a FR and definitely improves bridge stability (but does increase trem action pressure required).
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Richard,
Teflon is a good lubricant, it's relatively thin, but the problem with any kind of oil lubricant is that it attracts dust like a magnet! Even the Selmer Cork Grease that I'm using does that, hence the toothbrush and guitar polish scrubbing on a regular schedule. Another nut lubricant that works well is graphite. It's dry, but it's messy. On a maple neck it has a tendency to look like you've neglected the area around the nut when it comes to cleaning. It gets into every tiny little crack and shows up like dirt! YUK
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Hey Harley, this is why god invented locking nuts and fine tuners LoL
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Hey Harley, this is why god invented locking nuts and fine tuners LoL
I didn't know God's name is Floyd Rose! Why didn't somebody TELL me??? :dunno: