SHORT STORY: Which tubes would be the best for getting a deep crunch with a defining midrange and enough highs to cut through the mix? I love the rhythm tones of Obituary (for the thickness) and Carcass (for the definition). My signal chain: Carvin 7 string DC 727 with SD Invader -> ADA MP-2 noise modded -> Rocktron Velocity 300 -> Genz Benz G-Flex 2x12
I've spent most of my free time with my MP-2 playing/practicing/recording and I noticed it's a bit more (microphonic) feedback-prone than before so I either adjust the gate threshold higher or put a decimator pedal before the preamp. I know this can be a sign of aging tubes. I've had my MP-2 for 2 years and bought it used so no telling how much usage the tubes had prior to my extreme use over the past year.
There are limits to my experimentation on the MP-2..
My experiences have been that, as the MP-2 were pretty much build for that 80's big hair metal saturated sound, trying to reduce gain by using lower gain tubes for a more crunchy sound really doesn't work too well.
I'd suggest using a fairly high gain 100-105 tube in pos #1, and go for a 95-100 tube in pos #2, most likely a long plate, like a Ruby or Mullard Reissue.
I'd avoid the JJ 110-115 tubes; not that there's anything wrong with those, they just don't crunch.
You could try a 12AT7 in pos #2, but you'll loose out on high gain solo distortions, at least unless using a high gainer in pos #1 and use voicing 8 with some additional juice from the Overdrive parameter.
Microphonicity is most always a sign of aging tubes.
Are the foam tube stabilizer pads in place? If not, the bottles might shake more - and we don't wanna shake dem bottles unless it's party time, do we now.. ;)
I don't if they are the best but Tong Sols sound great in my Mp2. Very warm sounding!
I can back van up on this: using lower gain tubes in an MP-2 doesn't have nearly the same effect it does in an MP-1. The MP-2 really does well with clean sounding tubes, in my experience. The cleaner the tubes (like Tung Sols), the deeper your cleans. However, I did get more bottom end from some old Sovteks in my MP-2.
No wrong answer here, tone is subjective
If you put ten tubes in front of me in a blind audible test, I'd probably pick 10 different ones ;)
Hey nomorepeople,
My personal preference in the MP-2 for the time being are the Mullard RI's. They give a good bottom end delivery, that is solid and defined with a bit more articulation in the mid-range. The MP-2 already has plenty of gain on tap, in fact, more than I need, so I have been more focused on tubes that might help with the dynamics. The Mullards seem to help with this. Lately, those have been a popular choice among the MP-2 users on the Forum. Decent quality tubes can be had at Doug's Tubes
http://www.dougstubes.com/
Harley 8)
Just to mention: I use a TAD RT001 (a Chinese tube, selected to specs by the German dude Tube Amp Doctor) in pos #1 and a NOS Philips ecc83 in pos #2.
The TAD is semi-high gain, IIRC around 100, and a Bit edgy in the high register; I choose this in order to have shrill harmonics.
The Philips likely has a gain in the 92-95 range, and is semi-hifi'ish in tone, i.e. not specifically warm, neither shelving nor presence peaking; I chose this for a nice overall characteristic AKA the warm fart ;)
Now, this combo isn't what the OP wants; however, all I'd need for a more crunchy tone would be to replace the first tube with a non-edgy one.
I don't think locating NOS Philips will be that easy, so I'd likely choose a Mullard RI (as Harley also commented).
Geez, the amount of time we can spend discussing shiny bottles of glass, containing near-nothingness and metal shrapnels.. ;)
Hey NMP, I'm all for the Mullards, they work really well in MP2, really opens up the sound (and yes it does sound like the tubes are needing replacement). I haven't tried the tung sols, but they should also be nice (and Soloist knows his sounds :thumb-up: ).
Try also using the less hot voices (if you're not already). Eg 5 Warm Vintage (which has heaps of gain anyway). I've been using this on my main patch for a while now, it's got plenty for a nice solo and also turns down nicely for rhythm (I use the master vol pedal allot for this but also I've started to roll the guitar vol pots down 2.5 - 3 ish)
Thank you, everyone, for your input. Looks like I may contact Doug for the Mullard route.
You might want to try a 7025 - they tend to be smoother and quieter than 12AX7:
http://www.thetubestore.com/Resources/Product-Reviews/12AX7-Tube-Reviews-Chart (http://www.thetubestore.com/Resources/Product-Reviews/12AX7-Tube-Reviews-Chart)
BUMP
I had my MP-2 out of the rack today & just wanted to share what tubes I have in mine: TAD and Tung Sol. I rolled a lot of tubes before settling on these. IIRC, the TAD handles the high gain stuff and the Tung Sol is warmth and clean tones.
Fun coincidence.. I use a TAD 001 and a Philips NOS, the latter I believe is fairly close to the Tungsol, maybe a bit more neutral.
I'm using tung-sol.
I tryed mesa, but sounded too smooth, more mid, and less agressive.
I also tryed JJ, and generic chinese, but tung-sol sounded fuller (JJ and generic chinese where not brand new).
Somebody correct me if I'm wrong here, but I believe the Mesa tubes are actually rebranded Chinese or Russian tubes ? I remember a time when Mesa used to put a thick black rubber band around the tube with their logo printed in silver on the rubber band, and a generic 12AX7 was printed on the tube itself.
I was not fond of them myself. No real articulation in notes, too mushy on open chords, a little flubby on the low end chugga chuggas. Now, those tubes might work in the Mesa gear, but I didn't like them in my MP-2. I can get a better Mesa tone with the TAD/Tung Sol combination :lol:
Hey Dante
Apparently Messa/Boogie get their tubes from a variety of places, apparently they have a machine that scrubs off the label and then they re-badge them so it's hard to know what they are (unless you are very familiar with the internal construction). They also use JJ tubes. The Boogie dealer for Australia is the shop I go to in Canberra. One of my mates there has been to the factory a few times and told me a bit about it. I've used the SPAX7s from time to time as I can buy them locally. I liked them in my MP1 years ago, I tried them in my MP2 and apart from that they have a great feedback tone (best I've heard), I was nonplussed with them for the MP2. So now I use the Mullard long plates. The other downside with Boogie tubes is the cost, in Australia they cost more than double similar tube offerings.
The SPAX7s still have the thick rubber band (as opposed to the Boogie STR 12AX7-As which don't), I assume to further reduce microphonics. As I ended up with a couple spare I gave some to MikeB for his MP1. He currently uses a Mullard short plate in V1 and SPAX7 in V2. Works well in that configuration for the MP1.
SPAX7 :dunno:
I never heard of that one, time to do some research...
Yup, those are the ones I've seen - BTW: I am very close to Petaluma, CA - the home of Mesa, I see a lot of their gear (and ADA stuff) on craigslist
http://www.mesaboogie.com/tubes/pre-amp-tubes/SPAX7.html
Research reveals the SPax7 to be Sovtek's or JJ's, tested for extra low noise and microphonics; else they're reportedly the same, though some of course say they sound better. as in cleaner then normal 12ax7's; who knows..
All using them seems to agree they are indeed lower noise, though I notice comments on whether or not they are less microphonic in nature.
They feature some sort of elastomer wrapped around them, likely being what reduces the microphonics.
That's just labeled heat shrink tubing Sinn.
Quote from: Harley Hexxe on November 12, 2016, 10:50:07 AM
That's just labeled heat shrink tubing Sinn.
Yeah, I should've referred correctly ;)
Question is if it has any effect on reducing microphonics?
I'm thinking that, in theory, the wrappings, due to having maybe some [elastomer-like mass], perhaps could act as a vibration dampener.. :dunno:
Pure speculation here...
It may be possible that the vibration may be dampened a little by it, but from what I've read in the description in the tube, they seem to suggest that the heat shrink tubing may also help augment the vacuum with the additional pressure from the outside of the bottle. But I'm not sure if I'm interpreting that correctly.
Harley 8)
Hard to say if the "condom" actually adds any value sonically, it sets them apart visually from the slightly cheaper STR 12AX7s and makes it's quite hard to view the internal construction of the tube. Probably helps with warm up speed and slower cool down :dunno: . Anyway they sound reasonable in an MP1 but not my tube of choice for the MP2. In the MP2 they fart a bit and lack definition on the bottom E and are quite 2D. When I swapped them out for the Mullard long plates it was like Ahhhh..... much more like it :thumb-up:
From the description you give Richard, it sounds like they are short plate tubes. and definitely not the choice I would want for the MP-2. Long plates seem to be much more agreeable for that preamp.
Thanks for that review, that helps.
Harley 8)
Quote from: Harley Hexxe on November 13, 2016, 03:20:36 PM
Pure speculation here...
It may be possible that the vibration may be dampened a little by it, but from what I've read in the description in the tube, they seem to suggest that the heat shrink tubing may also help augment the vacuum with the additional pressure from the outside of the bottle. But I'm not sure if I'm interpreting that correctly.
Harley 8)
That it could help a bit against microphonics, yes maybe somehow, but that it augments the vacuum that's really far fetched.
Quote from: rnolan on November 13, 2016, 08:34:01 PM
Hard to say if the "condom" actually adds any value sonically...
It's a condome? Oh gosh, I gotta have an MP-2 with condomized tubes!
But wait! ADA prefers direct interfacing, so.. nope, I cannot condome the use of tubes in gift wrap..
Quote from: vansinn on November 14, 2016, 08:14:45 AM
so.. nope, I cannot condome the use of tubes in gift wrap..
Condome, hahaha great!
Quote from: MarshallJMP on November 14, 2016, 06:11:13 AM
Quote from: Harley Hexxe on November 13, 2016, 03:20:36 PM
Pure speculation here...
It may be possible that the vibration may be dampened a little by it, but from what I've read in the description in the tube, they seem to suggest that the heat shrink tubing may also help augment the vacuum with the additional pressure from the outside of the bottle. But I'm not sure if I'm interpreting that correctly.
Harley 8)
That it could help a bit against microphonics, yes maybe somehow, but that it augments the vacuum that's really far fetched.
That seems to be the implication in the link Dante posted, but I agree with you. it sounds like bull :poop:
Hey Harley, definitely short plates, the only visual difference with the STR 12AX7s and the SPAX7 (I have a bunch of each) seems to be the condom. And I agree long plates seem the better option for the MP2. That said though, the original short plate chinese bottles were great, albeit not quite as 3D as long plates. One of my MP2s came with EH tubes, I found them very ordinary and changed them out asap.
Richard,
The original tubes in my MP-2's weren't short plates, they were in the middle kind of. In fact, I don't believe any of the ADA gear I have, ever had short plate tubes in them. They were all the same tubes.
Now, don't go do this experiment, 'cause the MP-2 mains transformer can't supply enough juice..
Some years ago, I tried a 12BH7 quite long plate tube in pos #2, and had a really cool amp-like tone.
The 12BH7 is a low gain tube, so it worked with Voicing 8 only, as this one has the extra gain to compensate.
I refer this merely to add to the discussion on long plate tubes.
And remember: The tranny cannot really supply the extra 150 mA, going from the 12AX 300mA to the 12BH 450mA heaters.
The 12BH7 can't be used since it drawing double the heater current, (300mA vs 150 mA from a 12ax7) and the plate resistance is way to low which results in a ยต of only 17.This baby needs current!!!
^ yep, the 12BH7 shouldn't, mustn't, cannot be used at all (what I said above).
I referred my daring, and unarguably pretty short-term, experiment purely as an example of long-plate tone.