ADA Depot - A Forum To Support Users of ADA Amplification Gear

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

Temp "Time Format" issue Fix in Discussions

Pages: [1]   Go Down

Author Topic: Modern Sounding Power Amp for MP1  (Read 9898 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Griphook

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 215
  • Less is more? More is more!
Modern Sounding Power Amp for MP1
« on: Time Format »

Hey Guys,

I'm looking to buy a Power Amp for my MP1 and I thought you could help me with my decision.

I'm aiming for a modern sound, so I don't think I'd be happy with a Marshall.
I also admit that I never really compared SS with TubeAmps. Is there a huge difference between those kind of PowerAmps?
I doubt that anything less than 2x50 Watts will provide enough headroom.

So my current choices are:
ENGL 840/50
ENGL 920/50
Reußenzehn GuitarSlave
Mesa Fifty/Fifty
Carvin Ts100

My budget is Maximum 550€ so a VHT is a bit over the top...
Has anyone any experiences with those Amps. Any Pros/Cons, other suggestions?

Thanks in advance  :)
Logged

tomy

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 340
  • "To loose means trouble, to win pays double"
Re: Modern Sounding Power Amp for MP1
« Reply #1 on: Time Format »

Hi griph !

I'm playing on ada microtube 100 & Marshall 9200 (5881). Those amps are not in your list, but anyway if any advice is needed send a PM


TG
Logged
"As far back as I can remember,  I've always wanted to be a  gangster..."

ARSENAL :
https://fr.audiofanzine.com/membres/885047/products/

Griphook

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 215
  • Less is more? More is more!
Re: Modern Sounding Power Amp for MP1
« Reply #2 on: Time Format »

The Microtubes seem to be a nice pick, but they are pretty rare. I didn't spot even a single one in the last few months, so it didnt' make it onto my list.

The Marshall 9200 is a HUUUGE Amp with too much Power I think. But as I said, I assume a Marshall won't fit my sound so the smaller 9100 will not help on this  :(
Logged

rnolan

  • Administrator
  • Superhero Member
  • ******
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 5998
Re: Modern Sounding Power Amp for MP1
« Reply #3 on: Time Format »

Hey Griphook, there's quite a few to pick from depending what you want but I can talk to 3 possibilities (BTW there are quit a few other post about this if you dig around here).
For ADA MP1/2 you need a good reliable clean transparent poweramp with enough gusto for your needs. Tube amps seem to give more bang for the same watts in my experience so tube amp 50w per side, SS 100 w per side.
ADA B200s great amp, perfect for MP1/2 but getting old. I used mine for many years and Mike still uses the first one I bought in his MP1 rig. These do 120 ish w per side into 4 ohms, probably around 100 per side into 8 ohms. SS amp, heavy but no where near as heavy as a tube poweramp.
Carvin TS100, this is my current poweramp, great amp, you can use it to power studio cross reference monitors. All tube, weighs a tone (we call it "the brick"). 50 w per side, which I've found to be ample (and I don't play soft  >:D ), easy switch between 4, 8 and 16 ohm (as has output transformers). Can run in 100 w bridge mode, available with 6L6 or EL34 power tubes. New, modern, reliable and has presence knob for each channel (which I never use..). I really like this amp but it weighs allot (as do all tube amps)
Carvin DCM200L, 1 RU super light, SS with switching power supply, 100w per side, loudness button (they call room eq IIRC), new, modern, again can be used to power studio cross reference monitors (notice a theme here LoL), much cheaper than TS100 and a fraction of the weight. I'm considering one of these for a smaller (easy to carry) rack setup.

The ADA MT100 and 200 are hybrid amps, they use tubes to control the output transistors, nice amps but again getting old. I had a US voltage MT100 for a short while, it didn't do it for me so I swapped it with Dante for his B200s.

There are other amps around, many "optimised" for guitar, MP1/2 don't need to be optimised by the power amp.
Logged
Studio Rig: Stuff; Live Rig: More Stuff; Guitars: A few

Griphook

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 215
  • Less is more? More is more!
Re: Modern Sounding Power Amp for MP1
« Reply #4 on: Time Format »

Carvin TS100, this is my current poweramp, great amp, you can use it to power studio cross reference monitors. All tube, weighs a tone (we call it "the brick"). 50 w per side, which I've found to be ample (and I don't play soft  >:D ), easy switch between 4, 8 and 16 ohm (as has output transformers). Can run in 100 w bridge mode, available with 6L6 or EL34 power tubes. New, modern, reliable and has presence knob for each channel (which I never use..). I really like this amp but it weighs allot (as do all tube amps)
Carvin DCM200L, 1 RU super light, SS with switching power supply, 100w per side, loudness button (they call room eq IIRC), new, modern, again can be used to power studio cross reference monitors (notice a theme here LoL), much cheaper than TS100 and a fraction of the weight.

There are other amps around, many "optimised" for guitar, MP1/2 don't need to be optimised by the power amp.

Is it just for the versatility that you can use these amps for studio monitoring or are you really using them for this purpose?
Can you spot a huge Sound difference between SS and Tube Amps?

So I believe a linear amp will work out to get the most "original" sound?


Thanks for the great Input R and tomy :)
Logged

rnolan

  • Administrator
  • Superhero Member
  • ******
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 5998
Re: Modern Sounding Power Amp for MP1
« Reply #5 on: Time Format »

Hey Griphook, if I had passive studio monitors I would/could use them, I have Behringer Truths b2031 and truth sub which are active but I'd happily use them for that purpose, actually, thinking about it, I'd go with the TS100 for studio monitors, being tube it will have a much wider frequency response. The ADA preamps were designed to do all the sound/tone creation and just need to be as faithfully amplified as possible/affordable, hence transparent, clean but with enough gusto to power your cabs. The B200s for example, is like it's just not there, totally transparent but lots of good clean grunt.
Tubes vs SS is a very talked about topic... and while in some ways very subjective, there is some physics behind the discussion though. Fundamentally tubes are much better audio amplifiers than SS will ever be, and tubes didn't start life as a preamp distortion option for guitarists.  They are still the go to preamp/amp for very high end audio, and partly why the Neave console Dave Grolsh bought from sound city sounds so good.
But tube power amps, they need a big power transformer and an output transformer per channel so are heavy, they also generate allot of heat and are large (compared to transistors).
So my direct comparison/experience is between my B200s and my TS100. I love them both, the TS100 if anything is a little warmer (it's so subtle though). Probably what I'm really noticing is tube amps have soooo much more stored power = control of speakers.
If you want really linear, then you want tube. But the original sound of a MP1 was with B200s or they also did a tube amp which weighs twice as much as the TS100, again both very transparent, clean amps (which is also what you want for studio monitors).
These days, most of my playing is direct to studio monitors from the MP2 cab sim outs (and Mike plays his MP1 with a GCS3 cab sim in the FX loop and also plugs in direct). But here and there we get to crank up through cabs, typically I use the TS100 into  1 ADA split stack wired stereo (2 x 16 ohm Celestions). While I haven't done serious A/B testing, I'd say the TS100 (2 x 50w) holds its ground with the B200s (2 x 120w), I go back to stored power (a conversation I was having today with a Tube audiophile nut friend).
If you want the original MP1 sound (is that what you are chasing ?) any of the amps I suggested will be fine. But there are lots of amps to choose from.
Logged
Studio Rig: Stuff; Live Rig: More Stuff; Guitars: A few

Soloist

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 534
  • Take No Prisoners...Take No Sh!t
Re: Modern Sounding Power Amp for MP1
« Reply #6 on: Time Format »

Hey Griphook, I do love the tone from a warm tube power amp. However I have been using a Carvin DCM200L solid state 200watt beast of a stereo power amp. It has plenty of headroom, crystal clear tone no coloration at all and an eq expand button which scoops out a bit of high mids. :metal: It sounds excellent with a MP1, JMP-1,Piranha, Voodo valve, Gsp2101 and a POD HD500. Some require some eq'ing but great power amp for a 1ru, super light, affordable unit. :thumb-up:  That's my $0.02
Logged
Live Rig:
Fractal Audio FM3 ver 1.06
Boss GT 100 ver.2.11
Switching- Radial Engineering Big Shot I/O v2 - Radial Engineering Pro D2 Stereo Direct Box
Power - Live Wire Power Conditioning Distribution System
Monitors  - (2) FRFR-112 Headrush Stage monitors
Axes - Charvel So Cal Pro Mod-Jackson DK2MQ Pro-Jackson USA Soloist-Ibanez RG3XXV
ADA gear: MP1- MP2 - MT200
Studio gear- way too much to list.

Griphook

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 215
  • Less is more? More is more!
Re: Modern Sounding Power Amp for MP1
« Reply #7 on: Time Format »

Thanks a lot for sharing your experience and Knowledge. I really appreciate it :)

I know that sound is a very subjective thing, but its always nice to her some opinions about characteristics of such gear.
So Carvin seems to be a nice pick for the MP1. Unfortunately there is no DCM and just on TS available for me. The 1RU-Lightweight-Thing is really tempting.

I beleive there is no way around comparing the SS/Tube for myself.
But are there any ENGL-Users here in the Forum? I didn't read anything about ENGLs in other topics so Im wondering what the reason is.

I like the MP1s sound, but I'd like the AMP to add a bit more bottom end, a bit more "force" (if you know what I mean), without loosing the beatiful clarity.

Soloist, waht do you mean by "That's my $0.02" ?
Logged

Soloist

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 534
  • Take No Prisoners...Take No Sh!t
Re: Modern Sounding Power Amp for MP1
« Reply #8 on: Time Format »

Ha, it just means that's my 2 cents or my opinion.
I have used Engl preamps before but not a power amp. I wasn't overly impressed with the pre I used, it wasn't stereo and just sounded like it was lacking some thump, a bit thin as well. kind of reminded me of a Crate Blue Voodoo. If you want serious thump from a tube driven power amp check into a Mesa 50/50 or 2:90. :metal:
Logged
Live Rig:
Fractal Audio FM3 ver 1.06
Boss GT 100 ver.2.11
Switching- Radial Engineering Big Shot I/O v2 - Radial Engineering Pro D2 Stereo Direct Box
Power - Live Wire Power Conditioning Distribution System
Monitors  - (2) FRFR-112 Headrush Stage monitors
Axes - Charvel So Cal Pro Mod-Jackson DK2MQ Pro-Jackson USA Soloist-Ibanez RG3XXV
ADA gear: MP1- MP2 - MT200
Studio gear- way too much to list.

MarshallJMP

  • Superhero Member
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4702
    • marshalljmpmodshop.net
Re: Modern Sounding Power Amp for MP1
« Reply #9 on: Time Format »

Mesa amps are good and also the VHT power amps are good.Very heavy sounding.
Logged

rnolan

  • Administrator
  • Superhero Member
  • ******
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 5998
Re: Modern Sounding Power Amp for MP1
« Reply #10 on: Time Format »

For the $s, I'd proffer that a Carvin TS100 is the pick if you want a "new" tube poweramp. In the SS stream, a B200s is hard to go past, but they are all very old (albeit very reliable) these days. In the SS territory the DCM 200l makes lots of sense. I also like the Mesa power amps, but they tend to be expensive.
Logged
Studio Rig: Stuff; Live Rig: More Stuff; Guitars: A few

Griphook

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 215
  • Less is more? More is more!
Re: Modern Sounding Power Amp for MP1
« Reply #11 on: Time Format »

I think I'll go with a Tube amp. The question is, which one.
The Mesa does not have a bridging function IIRC.
I recetnly saw a Peavey Calssic 50 50. Is it comparable to the Carvin?
Logged

rnolan

  • Administrator
  • Superhero Member
  • ******
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 5998
Re: Modern Sounding Power Amp for MP1
« Reply #12 on: Time Format »

If you're happy to lug a brick, the TS100 is the pick of that bunch IMO. It's actually lighter than many others (though still quite heavy). You get a presence knob (I have no use for, plenty in the MP1/2) a bridge mode (but only if you use the same output tubes for each channel, you can use 6L6 one side and EL34 the other if you want), and you can run 6L6 or EL34 tubes, mine has 6L6. A new Messa will cost you your house, and aren't any better, the Peavy will be a good amp but $$$ ?? Also I can't vouch for the transparency of the Messa or Peavy, they are very much "for guitar amps". They are all good amps though and will all do the job.
Logged
Studio Rig: Stuff; Live Rig: More Stuff; Guitars: A few

Damn-Danny

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 103
  • be yourself , never copy someone else!!!!
Re: Modern Sounding Power Amp for MP1
« Reply #13 on: Time Format »

You can check on You Tube 2 Russian handbuild tube preamps for more modern metal gain.
The Yerasov Detonator P   ( 5 12ax7,s)  on ebay I bought one for 480 euro's icl. shipping.
Or on Reverb a Kartakou Colossos  (5150 based)  435 euro's excl. shipping , but some 40 euro's

 :headbanger:
Logged
Ormsby Hyper GTR 6 string
Ormsby RC One   6 Orange Marbles
SKG    Anubis (halve step down)
Bo-el   MC 6
Robin guitar  Raider USA (D Standard)
ADA 3TM mp1
ADA Ampulator
ADA GCS 6
Ada mp2  (working now)
Yerasove Detonator - P (for sale)
Yamaha SPX 900
Marshall 8008 Valvestate
Peavey  6505MH
Rane mpe 28
EVH 5150II Lbx 
Pro Tone Gary Holt signature boost
Pro Tone Jeff Loomis signature OD
Boss OD2
TC Electronic Sentry noise gate
Bugera 333XL infinium (died on me)

Chip Roberts

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 188
  • Anything worth doing is worth overdoing.
    • Chip Roberts Official
Re: Modern Sounding Power Amp for MP1
« Reply #14 on: Time Format »

I've tried a bunch of power amps and had different results with all of them.

If you're looking for a "modern" metal type sound, I recommend putting it through the FX return of a high gain amp head or combo, or really anything with big fat power tubes.  I've been running my MP1 through a Jet City 333, 100 watts with EL84s and it sounds huge for those metal chugging riffs.  It does color your sound a bit, which might not be a bad thing for what you're looking for; it's all a matter of preference.

I've also run the same setup through the effects return of my Line 6 Spider Valve 112; it's a tube/digital hybrid Line 6 put out for a few years.  The power section is all tube, 2 6L6s, and I quite like the sound of this. For 40 watts of all tube power it gets really loud for such a small combo.

For solid state, I've used a MosValve 1160, which is a bit rare.  I'm not sure how the 962s sound, though they're much more common and can be bought for ~$150USD.  It had a nice color to it, I found it added a bit of brightness and bite and was decently suited to metal.  It really shines on cleans, plus it looks nice in the rack  ::)

I've also run a Marshall Valvestate 8004.  This is the younger, 40w brother to the 8008 and lacks the controls on the front panel; it's either on or off, so you would need to use the last item in your signal chain to dial in your volume.  I believe it has 1 tube in there, but I think it's just for show.  I've seen Ola Englund replace the tube in a Valvestate head and get radically different results, so I could be wrong.  Otherwise, it's solid state but very very good, especially if you can get the 1U version.  There's a linear switch on the back so you can A/B which route you want to go.  I've played my setup through the 8004 and through the power section of a JVM410 and liked the 8004 better. 

My main power amp now, however, is the B200s.  Something about it is just the nicest, cleanest sound, to my ears.  I've been using it for my cleans and leads when recording, and when gigging with my casino band it gets the range of tones I'm after.  Again, if you want that modern metal sound, you might want to look elsewhere, but do give it a try if you have the opportunity.  It has a nifty plug on the back too, just in case you need an extra one.

Those have been my experiences with power amps.  I've liked them all in different ways, and I've had a lot of fun comparing and contrasting them; that's half the fun of building your rig!  Given your budget, I think you're set to get pretty much anything you want outside of the T100s, which is really rare and apparently weighs a metric ton.  I've always been curious about the Engls and Mesas, but can't justify spending $600 for a power amp when I already have a bunch  :facepalm:

Logged
Rack of Death:
MP1 v2.01/Roland GP8/Boss NS50/ADA B200s

Pedalboard:
Boss TU2, Mooer Pitchbox, Boss BF2, Boss CE5, MXR EVH Phase 90, Behringer HB01 Wah/ART X15 Ultrafoot/

Cabinet:
Custom 2X12 with WGS Retro 30/HM75
Pages: [1]   Go Up