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Non ADA Gear => Effects => Topic started by: rabidgerry on April 05, 2018, 09:42:42 AM

Title: Soundlab SST 19 (Nobels SST 19) Broken
Post by: rabidgerry on April 05, 2018, 09:42:42 AM
Hi guy's,

call me insane right....................but I bid on this insanely rare preamp a few weeks ago and won it outright.  It is a clone of the Rockman XPR.  When I asked the original owner to test the rear input on the unit he did so and suddenly the unit (which was working perfectly up until that point) stops working.  He tried to get it going again for me but unfortunately he was unable.

So he listed the item again but as broken this time and I won it again knowing it was broken.  However I figured an old unit like this may be worth trying to save, particularly how rare it is.  I was hoping with the help of you guys I might be able to get the unit back up and running again.  If not I guess I could sell the unit it on and make my money back, but either way I hope something can be done.

This is how the owner describes the issue:


Quote
Was working great until just last week. Now comes on for a short period and works normally before going weird. Sound passing through but you have to switch it on and off to get it going again but same thing happens again after a short time.

May be something simple such an electrolytic cap that has expired and needs replacing? Or one of the chips?

One of the front panel push switches is pushed in and no longer clicking so may be that that needs replaced?

A challenge for someone!!

I got pics of the inside also which I can post later, but let me know what you all think or am I flogging a dead horse?
Title: Re: Soundlab SST119 (Nobels SST119) Broken
Post by: MarshallJMP on April 05, 2018, 10:15:34 AM
Didn't find any info on these?
Title: Re: Soundlab SST119 (Nobels SST119) Broken
Post by: rabidgerry on April 05, 2018, 11:10:33 AM
That's how rare it is!

For some reason the same model as the Nobels SST119 was issued under the soundlab name also.  From what I understand Nobels had made their own rockman clones and where trying to get away with murder so perhaps they tried to issue the same unit under a different name to try and avoid getting nailed by Rockman, who knows?  Either way the soundlab I have won is exactly the same as the Nobels.  I dug a little further and found Nobels also copied the x100 headphone amp and some other items in the rockman range only made their housing out of metal.  Apparently at one time Kramer were backing the nobels rockman copied range!!!  If you search you will find adverts feasturing both brands of equipment.

My one idea is to contact Nobels and ask for a schematic perhaps?  Long shot.

example

https://reverb.com/item/9677450-vintage-nobels-kramer-sound-studio-min-pak-variable-filter-tone-dist-gain-normal-od-dist-germany-9-volt-1989-red (https://reverb.com/item/9677450-vintage-nobels-kramer-sound-studio-min-pak-variable-filter-tone-dist-gain-normal-od-dist-germany-9-volt-1989-red)
Title: Re: Soundlab SST119 (Nobels SST119) Broken
Post by: MarshallJMP on April 06, 2018, 02:05:30 PM
Well keep us updated!
Title: Re: Soundlab SST119 (Nobels SST119) Broken
Post by: rnolan on April 06, 2018, 08:50:10 PM
Hey RG, your insane  :crazy: well not really, though I'm sure others (who aren't into guitar gear) may think so  :wave:
Title: Re: Soundlab SST119 (Nobels SST119) Broken
Post by: vansinn on April 07, 2018, 03:00:19 AM
Yeah, I was close to buying one many years ago.
I had communication with the owner and designer.
It's fairly uncomplicated, build from ordinary electronics, and can be repaired.
I'll need to extract these communications from a backup - may even have schematics, don't remember; well, this I'll do anyways for some other data needed, so will try to get this done.

IIRC, outputs are driven from an ordinary opamp; mmnn.. maybe a TL07x/8x series.. could be the only thing defect. Don't remember where in the chain the output level potmeter is located, but it's an old carbon-trace thingy, so.. easily checked.
Mmnn. I also seem to remember both inputs and outputs are clamped with diodes to protect against too high levels; check those too.
That's all I can remember ATM.
Title: Re: Soundlab SST 19 (Nobels SST 19) Broken
Post by: rabidgerry on April 07, 2018, 04:05:28 AM
Hey MJMP, of course I can let you know what happens once the beast arrives.  MJMP You may not have found anything on the unit as I put in the wrong model number in the topic heading, see very bottom of this post man  :thumb-up:

Hey Richard,  I hope I aint insane.  This is a relic, and would practically take care of all my Rockman needs (no more hunting for over priced Rockman modules) so it's worth the gamble I think.  It surely is a rare piece.

Hey Van,  holy smokes!  Man if you have any info, that would be great.  A schematic would be great also, I know MJMP can read them ( :lol: as I cannot and I'm sure a few of you can also  :thumb-up:).  Much appreciated if you go to that length to get me some info  :bow: :bow: :bow:

I don't think this unit should be in too bad a condition, it was working perfectly as I said up until, well pretty much when I asked the original owner to use/test the rear input to see if it was ok (he said he only ever used the front and something didn't feel right when he plugged into the rear.)


Look someone has one with an MP1 https://www.musiker-board.de/attachments/20140725_190419-jpg.357736/
 (https://www.musiker-board.de/attachments/20140725_190419-jpg.357736/)edit: can one of you lovely administrators edit the name of this thread for me please?  I put in the model number wrong it should be "Soundlab SST 19 (Nobels SST 19)"
Title: Re: Soundlab SST119 (Nobels SST119) Broken
Post by: MarshallJMP on April 07, 2018, 09:09:10 AM
Ah now I find more of these. Seems to be digitally controlled (saw some midi connectors on the back) so it might be more complicated then you might think?
Title: Re: Soundlab SST119 (Nobels SST119) Broken
Post by: rabidgerry on April 07, 2018, 11:48:22 AM
I didn't say it would be easy, hell it might not be possible for all I know, I'll need plenty of help no doubt, but I think worth the gamble.
Title: Re: Soundlab SST 19 (Nobels SST 19) Broken
Post by: rnolan on April 07, 2018, 08:57:44 PM
Hey RG, it looks like it will fill the bill  :thumb-up: . I remember when the Rockman stuff came out, the music shop had a rack of all the units, way above what I could afford, it cost me $800 AUD for the X100, but then came the MP1....

So if it worked fine until using rear jack, maybe it's as simple as cleaning/replacing the jack ? It will no doubt be a switching jack and they do gum up and cause issues.
Title: Re: Soundlab SST 19 (Nobels SST 19) Broken
Post by: rabidgerry on April 08, 2018, 03:18:52 AM
Sure I have 3 MP1 units and as great as they are they don't do Rockman tones, and that's something I would like to have at my disposal also.  I've always liked the Rockman tones, I've heard plenty of examples where they have been used even in Metal music.

Original owner said this when I first got him to try the rear input jack:

Quote
So just got back to the house and checked out the rear input- you are right actually it is broken although just the outer plastic the jack seems to still accept the cable fine I had never used the rear input to be honest so never noticed.

Thought all was well however starting playing on it and within 15 mins started to cut out and think display an error message.

and

Quote
Ok will have a look and see - seems to be coming up with an error code. But then playing normally intermittently.

also

Quote
I got hold of the manual and identified the error code - advice is “consult dealer” I will try and reset it back to factory settings etc see if it helps

so this issue seems to stem fro the input he tried at the back of the unit.
Title: Re: Soundlab SST 19 (Nobels SST 19) Broken
Post by: MarshallJMP on April 08, 2018, 05:47:20 AM
From my experience, a bad input jack jack doesn't give an error code?
Title: Re: Soundlab SST 19 (Nobels SST 19) Broken
Post by: vansinn on April 08, 2018, 10:54:57 AM
From my experience, a bad input jack jack doesn't give an error code?

ERROR 42: Jack has a crack or slack. Remedy: Give Jack a whack; if problem persists, sack jack.
Title: Re: Soundlab SST 19 (Nobels SST 19) Broken
Post by: GuitarBuilder on April 08, 2018, 03:49:11 PM
I have the manual and schematics.  PM me with your email address.
Title: Re: Soundlab SST 19 (Nobels SST 19) Broken
Post by: rnolan on April 09, 2018, 05:03:44 AM
Seems the back jack has awoken the balrog  :facepalm: .  Well regardless of whatever else may be going on it will need to be replaced, though I'm with MJMP about the error code.

@GB, can you post the manual and schematic ? wouldn't mind having a look.  Or email it (address is in my profile)
Title: Re: Soundlab SST 19 (Nobels SST 19) Broken
Post by: rabidgerry on April 09, 2018, 06:21:52 AM
From my experience, a bad input jack jack doesn't give an error code?

Yeah, but who knows what else may have happened when he put the plug in, may be a short somewhere.  Anyways I know what you mean.  I think there is a battery in the unit for patch memory, wonder has that something to do with it.  Apparently a switch on the front panel no longer works either.
I have the manual and schematics.  PM me with your email address.


I will do indeed.  BTW how come you have the documentation?  Are you familiar with the unit?  All info regarding it is welcome  :thumb-up:

Title: Re: Soundlab SST 19 (Nobels SST 19) Broken
Post by: rabidgerry on April 10, 2018, 03:51:39 AM
Posting the schematic for yall!  Thanks a million GB for that, much appreciated.

How long have you had the SST 19?  You own Rockman modules also right?  How do they compare?
Title: Re: Soundlab SST 19 (Nobels SST 19) Broken
Post by: GuitarBuilder on April 11, 2018, 07:48:29 PM
Posting the schematic for yall!  Thanks a million GB for that, much appreciated.

How long have you had the SST 19?  You own Rockman modules also right?  How do they compare?

I've had mine for about 10 years now; I run it side by side with a Rockman XPR, which is the unit that Nobels emulated with the SST-19.  Although Nobels claim they came up with theirs first!  Who to believe?  I'm betting on Tom Scholz.  The SST-19 has some fun different features, such as mixing of clean & distorted channels.  Both units are a little noisy; I like putting a Rockman Smart Gate in the effects loop.  The XPR is pure Boston, the SST-19 distortion is different, more "raw".
Title: Re: Soundlab SST 19 (Nobels SST 19) Broken
Post by: rabidgerry on April 12, 2018, 11:20:45 AM
I like that it's rawer distortion, that is better.  @GB, I have a sustainor which I know is designed to be used with flat speakers either direct in recording or flat sounding cabs and power amp.  Is the SST 19 the same?  Or does it lack that speaker emulation quality that say the X100 and Sustainor and Distortion Generator have?

Just curious as I would love to run the SST using real cabs.
Title: Re: Soundlab SST 19 (Nobels SST 19) Broken
Post by: GuitarBuilder on April 12, 2018, 02:49:32 PM
I like that it's rawer distortion, that is better.  @GB, I have a sustainor which I know is designed to be used with flat speakers either direct in recording or flat sounding cabs and power amp.  Is the SST 19 the same?  Or does it lack that speaker emulation quality that say the X100 and Sustainor and Distortion Generator have?

Just curious as I would love to run the SST using real cabs.

The SST-19 does not have any speaker emulation, so you could run it into a cab sim + power amp + FRFR speakers or into the effects return of a guitar amp.
Title: Re: Soundlab SST 19 (Nobels SST 19) Broken
Post by: rabidgerry on April 13, 2018, 02:29:58 AM
Oh well I wouldn't need a cab sim, I have real cabs so it's good to know I could just hook the preamp up to my power amp and unleash some rockman ESQUE goodness!


However if I use it in the studio I'll be using a cab sim.  Fingers crossed this unit can be resurrected. Still waiting on the guy sending it to me, he was held up this week,  it's killing me waiting on the dam thing!!
Title: Re: Soundlab SST 19 (Nobels SST 19) Broken
Post by: rabidgerry on April 18, 2018, 11:02:29 AM
Ok so I got it today!

Tried messing around with is, for the few seconds it was on and off with intermittent signal, this preamp sounds excellent.  Sounds so smooth.  I really need to get this unit working.

Ok my observations so far:
The unit starts up with the error 2 message "e2".  I don't really think this is the issue.  Then it will kick back into life again and then jump around presets from what I can see.  Other times it just has two dash marks on the display.

When it has the two dash marks as the display, there is noise, like hiss.  And you can play the guitar a little bit.  What I mean by that is it allows sound to get through and to some extent the controls at least for the input worked.  Nothing else seems to work though.

The very first time I powered the unit on, the controls all of them seemed to function normally until the thing went haywire jumping presets before settling on the - - screen.

Things I have noted, the rear input is dead, doesn't allow signal.  The ext effects 2 Left send jack doesn't allow anything to be plugged into it at all.  It's jammed with something and I do not see why it will not accept a plug.

The button on the front panel for footswitch one is broken.  Seems like the switch beneath its is broken and needs replace.  It's like one of those switches you use to open the tray on your cd dvd drive on your pc.

This unit needs a 3v battery surprise, surprise to store the presets.  I tried to replace this thinking it was a simple slide out job but know the dam thing has some kind of strange metal clip that looks almost soldered to the bottom of the 3v battery some how.  May be not soldered but it's attached some how.  And since I tried to wedge a screw driver on the top side between the metal clip and the batter I have f*cked it up a little bit.  Still seems to hold the battery in place, not sure what the contact is like though.

Here are some pics.
Title: Re: Soundlab SST 19 (Nobels SST 19) Broken
Post by: rabidgerry on April 18, 2018, 11:03:55 AM
ps unable to upload the pics as I keep getting an error has occurred message.
Title: Re: Soundlab SST 19 (Nobels SST 19) Broken
Post by: rnolan on April 19, 2018, 03:48:37 AM
Hey RG, we seem to have a file upload issue in recent times, even though the board is configured to take up to a 20MB file anything over a certain amount fails (eg I tried to upload a 3MB MP2 manual and it wont let me  :facepalm: (and used to be fine).  I've asked Dante to check with the ISP and try to work out why.
Great you like the sound, now just have to get it all working.  From the schematic, that back jack is interactly associated with the front input.  My take on it.. send it to MJMP the guru of all things electrical  :bow: .
Title: Re: Soundlab SST 19 (Nobels SST 19) Broken
Post by: rabidgerry on April 19, 2018, 04:18:14 AM
Well he has to be up for it of course, he's a busy man!  I don't want to burden him with some random piece of kit.

Yeah something weird about that input I feel, when it's doing it's strange behaviour, bizarrely all the l.e.ds interact with the input signal like something is shorting to somewhere else and interacting like the input meter.

I was thinking of just removing the rear jack altogether to start with process of elimination.
Title: Re: Soundlab SST 19 (Nobels SST 19) Broken
Post by: rnolan on April 19, 2018, 04:30:02 AM
Hey RG, I'm sure MJMP is up for it  :thumb-up: , he'll enjoy it LoL, and it's not some random piece of kit, it's a very cool preamp  :whoohoo!: .  Also there is a bunch of stuff going on with this unit, just get him to sort it for you.  Removing the back jack may not be wise  :dunno: :nono: (though replacing it is), have a look on the schematic how it's interconnected with the front jack, definitely MJMP territory IMHO.
Title: Re: Soundlab SST 19 (Nobels SST 19) Broken
Post by: MarshallJMP on April 19, 2018, 04:58:20 AM
I'll be more then happy to take a look at it Gerry, I like random pieces of shit, euh I mean kit  :lol:

Mail me!
Title: Re: Soundlab SST 19 (Nobels SST 19) Broken
Post by: rabidgerry on April 19, 2018, 05:36:29 AM
I'll be more then happy to take a look at it Gerry, I like random pieces of shit, euh I mean kit  :lol:

Mail me!

I wasn't going to ask you, but that would be great man.  Honestly I don't think this is a piece of shit, it's really well made.  Say's made in Taiwan on the outside (the sound labs where made in Taiwan but the nobels where made in hamburg), but the circuit said it was made in hamburg so not sure why nobles out sourced to Taiwan in 1987 and I'm not sure if it was only the outer chassis that was made in Taiwan and the rest made in Hamburg.


But yes man, I think you would like this unit.  From the brief period that I could use it, it sounded and felt a lot better than my Rockman Sustainor.  More gain and 100% better feel.  This may be because my Sustainor is old and done (I dunno), but the SST 19 seems a lot better, plus it has a lot of very useful routing capabilities and control options.

For the price I got it I think it was worth a shot to buy it.  If the worst comes to the worst, I could easily sell this online and make my money back or even a profit.  Plenty of nutters out there where interested in it before I pipped them to the post on ebay.
Title: Re: Soundlab SST 19 (Nobels SST 19) Broken
Post by: rnolan on April 19, 2018, 05:52:52 AM
Hey RG, Told you LoL, I'd be the same if I had MJMPs electronic wizardry/understanding,  :whoohoo!: .  This looks like a really nice unit, wouldn't mind one myself (I also (as you know) have a rockman(esk) soft spot).  Your sustainer probably just needs re capping (particularly from what I read when you first went down this rabbit hole and I started to consider doing the X100 refresh, then I lent it to Mike and have forgotten about it), I'd send it to MJMP as well and get him to do his thing  :whoohoo!:
Title: Re: Soundlab SST 19 (Nobels SST 19) Broken
Post by: GuitarBuilder on April 20, 2018, 07:43:15 PM
I suspect that a thorough cleaning of switches and pots, along with a new battery, will bring this baby back to life.
Title: Re: Soundlab SST 19 (Nobels SST 19) Broken
Post by: kawai2g4b on July 14, 2019, 12:39:16 AM
Hey everyone, I just got one of these for cheap on eBay. It should be in by the end of next week. I’m hoping it’s a good one because parts are likely to be hard to come by.
Title: Re: Soundlab SST 19 (Nobels SST 19) Broken
Post by: rabidgerry on July 15, 2019, 03:06:11 PM
I checked mine about a month ago for the pure fun of it, and I couldn't believe it, but it appeared to be working perfectly apart from one dodgey switch.  Now going from completely dead to this is quit a turn around.  I didn't play with it long enough to get to use it properly.  It's complicated enough unit.  I still have my doubts as to whether or not it has enough distortion for me but I really hope so as I always loved the rockman tones.  Dunno why any of the stuff I've bought to get these tones has always disappointed.  Sounds heavy on records.  Feels weak in reality.

Keen to hear how you get on with your SST
Title: Re: Soundlab SST 19 (Nobels SST 19) Broken
Post by: kawai2g4b on July 18, 2019, 12:47:23 AM
Hey rabidgerry, it came in today. I have the same impressions that you have of this unit. I definitely will have to use an outboard EQ in conjunction with it to get the best out of it. For that matter I saw a video of some guy comparing the rockman x100 pocket amp with the Nobels SST-1 equivalent and even he mentions that a graphic equalizer helped the Nobels units get there
Title: Re: Soundlab SST 19 (Nobels SST 19) Broken
Post by: kawai2g4b on July 19, 2019, 12:12:20 AM
Update from today: Finally had a chance to dial in some tones with this thing with my Kawai Aquarius and modifies Kawai F-3 guitars. I will say that the 4th EQ band does nothing but make my instruments sound honky. Given, there are tones to be found in this thing, but an outboard EQ in the effects loop and a hot set of pickups will get close to early thrash.

So far my favorite sound has been on clean 2 with a medium but slow chorus. Somehow I managed to replicate Ernie Isley’s rhythm tones on late 70s Isley Brothers records with these settings.

The one big downfall, to my knowledge, is no digital parameters to save as everything is knob based.
Title: Re: Soundlab SST 19 (Nobels SST 19) Broken
Post by: rabidgerry on April 27, 2020, 08:54:06 AM
Update from today: Finally had a chance to dial in some tones with this thing with my Kawai Aquarius and modifies Kawai F-3 guitars. I will say that the 4th EQ band does nothing but make my instruments sound honky. Given, there are tones to be found in this thing, but an outboard EQ in the effects loop and a hot set of pickups will get close to early thrash.

So far my favorite sound has been on clean 2 with a medium but slow chorus. Somehow I managed to replicate Ernie Isley’s rhythm tones on late 70s Isley Brothers records with these settings.

The one big downfall, to my knowledge, is no digital parameters to save as everything is knob based.

Took this out again and is still working.  Not sure if there is a battery in it or not holding the settings but it appears to be wiping  when I switch it off.  Again not enough distortion, gutted  :(  Can barely do pinch harmonics on the most distorted setting which is more or less over drive.
Title: Re: Soundlab SST 19 (Nobels SST 19) Broken
Post by: kawai2g4b on April 28, 2020, 11:53:55 PM
I’m with you on that observation. It’s not the gain-iest preamp out there. It’s a lot better for 80’s style cleans and anything with needing a chorus effect.
Title: Re: Soundlab SST 19 (Nobels SST 19) Broken
Post by: rabidgerry on May 02, 2020, 08:24:41 AM
I’m with you on that observation. It’s not the gain-iest preamp out there. It’s a lot better for 80’s style cleans and anything with needing a chorus effect.
  The cleans are real nice.  I decided to boost the front end and I got more usable distortion from it.  But then you are screwed when you switch back to a clean patch as you are over loading then.  I think there are trim pots inside but I need to investigate.  Seems one of my patches saved on mine so it does save after all.

@kawai2g4b You are using on it's own right?  It defo doesn't require a speaker emulator at all.  And I have to say the EQ is insanely sensitive.  I year for the heavy rockman distortion but I aint got it yet.  I thought this unit was going to be my ticket to it but I dunno now.  Chorus and delay are neat.  I still have no freaking clue though on the operation of the knobs.  You got a manual for this BTW? 

Mine currently seems to be operating ok, one patch selection button is broken as in loose and wobbly but still in place however depressing it still changes number etc.  Been reading the manual and there are some neat trikcs programmed into this unit.

It says here it was the firs programmable preamp!!!
https://nobels.de/history-of-sst-1?lang=en (https://nobels.de/history-of-sst-1?lang=en)
Title: Re: Soundlab SST 19 (Nobels SST 19) Broken
Post by: kawai2g4b on May 07, 2020, 12:12:30 PM
I’m using mine on it’s own. Now, if you wanted that push, you might want to find a Roland GP-8 midi programmable multi effect. They run about $125 USD and 6 of the 8 effects are analog, including the OD and distortion.  Basically they threw 8 Boss pedals into one unit.

As for the EQ, it is very sensitive. On mine, I keep the 2K band at neutral or below as the tone gets congested at settings higher than that.  Also, check your inbox, I’m going to send you the manual.
Title: Re: Soundlab SST 19 (Nobels SST 19) Broken
Post by: rabidgerry on May 08, 2020, 04:42:27 AM
 :lol:  I got the pm man, but if you read my last post and see I already have the manual.

Quote
Mine currently seems to be operating ok, one patch selection button is broken as in loose and wobbly but still in place however depressing it still changes number etc.  Been reading the manual and there are some neat trikcs programmed into this unit.

Anyways I appreciate the help.  Did you read any of that history on the link I posted?  Very interesting indeed.  The last thing they mention is the SST19.  Still not convinced about the gain issue, I think it should produce more.

I am familiar with the Roland, I have something similar already although in great need of maintenance, the Boss GL100.  Basically all the boss pedals (that were available up to 1988) in one rack unit  all analogue.  But something not quite right with it.  Distorts when the level is too loud.  No info about this unit online at all.  Like two threads and of course one guy has the same issue as me and then he gives up trying to get it sorted.  Other wise that would be in my rack if it worked properly.  It really would be awesome if I could get it fixed.

SIDE NOTE.  I also have a (broken as well  :lol:) Rockman distortion generator and I noticed despite real bad intermittence and the odd control that doesn't work it can get the real heavy rockman sound!!!  I intend to try fix this myself as I believe it is dry solder joints.  But that unit gives me what I crave with the SST19.  But the prices are shocking online.  I got mine cheapish, but still expensive.