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Miscellaneous => Rants & Raves => Topic started by: rabidgerry on May 14, 2020, 01:34:58 AM

Title: So I bought a Digitech TSR-24....................
Post by: rabidgerry on May 14, 2020, 01:34:58 AM
SO I bought a Digitech TSR-24 the other week and finally got testing it out last night.  It's a good unit, sounds pretty cool.  But it will take a while to get used with how to work it.

Anyways, there are mods for these units which really advance the basic unit substantially.

One is the firmware to version 2:0.  This effectively turns the unit into a TSR-24S which is supposed to be much better.

Two, having the firmware allows for two more mods, the first mod is allowing the processor clock to be advanced to 20MHZ.  This again adds more improvement to the unit.

Three, having the firmware 2:0 allows for a PPC-200/210 card to be installed which doubles the capabilities of your TSR-24S. Increased memory (adds 6MB SDRAM), 10 seconds (5 seconds stereo) of delay, you get 8 factory algorithms more, seamless Program Change.

So I want to do these mods for obvious reasons, but guess what?  (this is where the rant begins).

One guy in Germany sells all the mods.  ONE GUY!  The firmware is available in other places, but that's only part of the upgrade.  So I went to this guy's online shop and picked out all the mods and was getting ready to buy when I read this:

No sale or delivery to countries within the European Union (EU) and the European Economic Area (EEA)!

So I contacted the guy and asked why?  And he just said he could not sell to me.  No explanation.  Nothing.  I probed further and said technically I don't live in the EU anymore.  His response..........

"I will clarify that with my lawyer and let you know"

WHAT????????????????!!!!!!!!!!!! >:(

That response seemed pretty smart ass to me.  So I replied again saying, yes it's true the UK has left the EU.  I also threw in for good measure that I know people in Germany and could I not get them to buy items but he didn't reply back.

So how come some asshole in Germany is the only guy with all the mods for this unit and why will he not sell to countries in the EU????  He lives the in the EU.  Technically I no longer do so what is the problem?  How does an idiot like this do business?  Totally idiotic.  Thankfully I do have a brother in Germany and some good friends so I will either get them to order and then post to me or else find someone else who has these mods.

If anyone else knows anything about this unit or how to obtain mods without going to the German guy then please let me know as I actually don't want him to get my money for being really unhelpful.  I'm sure he sells billions of these everyday  :lol: so he's reluctant to sell to someone in N.Ireland  >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(
Title: Re: So I bought a Digitech TSR-24....................
Post by: rnolan on May 15, 2020, 12:46:21 AM
Hey RG, well great on the getting it going front  :whoohoo!: :thumb-up: .  What is this German guy on about  :dunno: :crazy: .  Doesn't make any sense to me.  His no sale spiel includes Germany right? it's in the EU (some would argue is the EU).This mob say they ship to Ireland in there shipping FAQ (http://www.nocrotec.com/shop/shop_content.php/coID/1/content/Payment-and-delivery/XTCsid/c0e41d758e344d20c26df33df051aaa4), or is this the same one you were dealing with?
Title: Re: So I bought a Digitech TSR-24....................
Post by: rabidgerry on May 15, 2020, 01:38:08 AM
Yes so he got back to me one more time and said no sales to Germany effectively ruling out my plan to get the items sent to someone I know in Germany as an alternative.  :facepalm:

What the  :crazy: is going on?

I replied again and said so you will not sell the items to someone in Germany, not even if they come to your house??

He didn't reply.

Makes no sense.  So I also asked him could he just sell me the firmware chips as they did not have the notification on their page stating that the could not be sold to the EU or EE

 :lol: Richard, that's the same guy man!  And yes there are price listings to the UK and Ireland so what gives???

Technically I live in the UK and not the Republic of Ireland.  The bit that brits still own unfortunately, so I myself by law am allowed to saw I am Irish and I have an Irish passport by where I live is still owned by Britain and is part of the UK despite having devolved government.  People here have the right to identify as either British or Irish.  I am Irish  :thumb-up:  If I lived down south in the Republic of Ireland I would be in the EU.  Where as the UK has opted to leave the European Union.  Something I voted against.

Either way the guy said:

- selling/shipping to UK is not allowed, sĂ­ncs UK is still member of the EEA.
- selling/shipping to Ireland is not allowed, since it is member of the EEA and the EU.
- selling/shipping to Germany is of course not allowed, since it is member of the EEA and the EU.

So my only chance is to buy the firmware from another seller (funnily enough I can buy it from Germany of another guy, I mentioned this to our friend  by the way), or I can get it from Italy, but I cannot het the 20MHZ mod.  Cannot find any info on this 20mhz mod at all.  If VanSinn where here I could ask him, he is actually mentioned on the guys webpage for having contributed in the tips section.

"Q: Oh my! The TSR24 is so complex. Any tricks I should know of?
A: This tip comes from "van Sinn": In addition to close reading the manual, download the GSP2101 manual and close read the digital processing section, as it contains many useful ideas.
The two units share practically the same digital engine.
Also, download and read the Friday Night Tips by Randy Thorderson of Digitech. Friday Tips was an email newsletter of sorts, containing GSP2101 tips.
"
Title: Re: So I bought a Digitech TSR-24....................
Post by: MarshallJMP on May 15, 2020, 06:28:07 AM
Hey G

Do you have more info about this, maybe I can help if I know which parts you need.
Title: Re: So I bought a Digitech TSR-24....................
Post by: MarshallJMP on May 15, 2020, 06:44:06 AM
I just had a look at the inside inside of a TSR24, seems it has a 10MHz crystal in it, so I thing you just need to replace it with a 20MHz crystal which is very easy to obtain.
Also saw it a KM681000blp-7 RAM chip (1Mb) and next to it is an empty slot so I guess you need a second one to put there? Also easy to obtain on ebay.
But I don' think it will add 6MB of RAM
Title: Re: So I bought a Digitech TSR-24....................
Post by: rabidgerry on May 15, 2020, 07:47:21 AM
Hey G

Do you have more info about this, maybe I can help if I know which parts you need.

MJMP I have no info at all regarding this.  Basically that guy in Germany is the "don" when it comes to this unit for some reason.  No one else sells the parts.

Now as I mentioned, the firmware can be obtained (albeit a little more expensive than this guy is selling).

No clues, evidence or info regarding the 20MHZ mod. 

I just had a look at the inside inside of a TSR24, seems it has a 10MHz crystal in it, so I thing you just need to replace it with a 20MHz crystal which is very easy to obtain.
Also saw it a KM681000blp-7 RAM chip (1Mb) and next to it is an empty slot so I guess you need a second one to put there? Also easy to obtain on ebay.
But I don' think it will add 6MB of RAM

Man I am no expert at all, so I can't possibly say.  I do know that another mod can be done called to some of the other digitechs like the GSP2101 where this board can be added called a PPC-200 and PPC-210.  These can be installed on the TRS-24 once I get the new firmware.  Below are details which explain the RAM addition, I think when copying and pasting earlier I copied one line to many that actually was referring to the PPC-200-210 board addon where 6MB extra is added.

Details below:

"Q: Which benefits do I get by installing a PPC-200/210 in my TSR-24(S)?
A: The PPC-200/210 doubles the capabilities of your TSR-24S.
You'll get the following benefits:
- increased memory (adds 6MB SDRAM). So you can set 10 seconds (5 seconds stereo) of delay (great for looping!)
- you get 8 factory algorithms more with cool effects
- 484 available CPU blocks instead of 228. You can create more complex user algorithms and odd effects.
- Seamless Program Change: This function allows you to switch seamless from program to program. See user-manual for details.
"

Actually MJMP I did mention that earlier the 6mb comes with the addition of the PPS


Three, having the firmware 2:0 allows for a PPC-200/210 card to be installed which doubles the capabilities of your TSR-24S. Increased memory (adds 6MB SDRAM), 10 seconds (5 seconds stereo) of delay, you get 8 factory algorithms more, seamless Program Change.

Title: Re: So I bought a Digitech TSR-24....................
Post by: MarshallJMP on May 16, 2020, 11:36:53 AM
Ok I see now, seems to be an add-on card with some memory on it.(I guess).
Title: Re: So I bought a Digitech TSR-24....................
Post by: rabidgerry on May 16, 2020, 02:58:11 PM
Ok I see now, seems to be an add-on card with some memory on it.(I guess).

I can live without the card, however I do want the 20mhz mod and I can find the firmware to buy else where.

MJMP what kind of crystal am I looking for and is it a simple solder job?

Also where have you found a good image of the inside of the TSR-24?

I have to say it's a comples unit but it sounds fantastic and I'm going to say quite transparent.
Title: Re: So I bought a Digitech TSR-24....................
Post by: rnolan on May 16, 2020, 09:00:29 PM
Maybe the firmware upgrade doubles the clock speed using a multiplier? and doesn't require a new crystal?  That was the feeling I got with a brief read of the stuff.It's good you like it  :thumb-up:
Title: Re: So I bought a Digitech TSR-24....................
Post by: rabidgerry on May 17, 2020, 03:33:55 AM
Maybe the firmware upgrade doubles the clock speed using a multiplier? and doesn't require a new crystal?  That was the feeling I got with a brief read of the stuff.  It's good you like it  :thumb-up:

Not from what I have learned reading that guys web page.  If you get the firmware it only makes you compatible for the 20mhz upgrade apparently.  Other sellers of the firmware also state "- the 2.00 firmware supports 20MHz upgrade" so o me that implies that something else is needed.  Originally I thought how you did but then it seemed as though it was something seperate.

also

http://www.nocrotec.com/shop/product_info.php/info/p77_Digitech-TSR-24-S--20MHz-Upgrade.html (http://www.nocrotec.com/shop/product_info.php/info/p77_Digitech-TSR-24-S--20MHz-Upgrade.html)
Title: Re: So I bought a Digitech TSR-24....................
Post by: Sparker on May 17, 2020, 06:51:09 AM
Hi  Guys / Gerry,

Just saw your post and remembered I have copied BIN images for the TSR24S v2.00 EPROMS. I can't remember if I bought a TSR24S  V2.00 and copied the EPROMS, from that or upgraded a V1.22 unit with new EPROMS and firmware. Either way I have attached a zip of V1.22 and V2.00 BIN images for ref (raw binary, not hex or anything else). The V1.22 was a single EPROM and the V2.00 used two EPROMS (the empty socket). Also I think the 20MHz mod was just a 10MHz to 20MHz crystal swap and maybe the two load caps changed for the higher clock frequency (sorry it was a long time ago). I'll have a dig around and see if I still have any suitable EPROMS (256k x 8)) and maybe a 20MHz crystal and see if I can get a kit over to you (I'm UK and no dramas, don't want any money). If not maybe MJMP could help out with the parts, etc.

Will keep you posted.  :thumb-up:

Cheers
Mike
Title: Re: So I bought a Digitech TSR-24....................
Post by: rabidgerry on May 17, 2020, 07:50:37 AM
Hi  Guys / Gerry,

Just saw your post and remembered I have copied BIN images for the TSR24S v2.00 EPROMS. I can't remember if I bought a TSR24S  V2.00 and copied the EPROMS, from that or upgraded a V1.22 unit with new EPROMS and firmware. Either way I have attached a zip of V1.22 and V2.00 BIN images for ref (raw binary, not hex or anything else). The V1.22 was a single EPROM and the V2.00 used two EPROMS (the empty socket). Also I think the 20MHz mod was just a 10MHz to 20MHz crystal swap and maybe the two load caps changed for the higher clock frequency (sorry it was a long time ago). I'll have a dig around and see if I still have any suitable EPROMS (256k x 8)) and maybe a 20MHz crystal and see if I can get a kit over to you (I'm UK and no dramas, don't want any money). If not maybe MJMP could help out with the parts, etc.

Will keep you posted.  :thumb-up:

Cheers
Mike
Jesus man that would actually be incredibly helpful.  I think you are right about the 20MHZ.  It isn't just a crystal swap, there is possible another 1-2 components to make way for the new clock speed, so in my lack of knowledge about anything a couple of caps sounds about right.  Also the German guys mod page suggests that there are components needing soldered so again all sounds about right from what you are saying.

As my unit is trs-24 my firmware is only 1.01 if I remember right.  Either that or 1.10. 

A kit would be amazing!!!  Total life saver.  I only bought the unit with the intention of doin the mods  :lol:  The TSR-24S seem to be a lot less common on the second hand market.  Or a lot more expensive.

Title: Re: So I bought a Digitech TSR-24....................
Post by: MarshallJMP on May 17, 2020, 09:02:38 AM
I have some 20MHz crystals lying around, not sure if I have 2Mb eproms (256 kb *8), have to look for these. I did see on some pics a Z180 and next to it a 10MHz crystal, but the Z180 was also  10MHz rated. Not sure about this, but maybe if you swap the crystal you also have to swap the Z180, I looked it up and they exist in 20MHz. I also saw a second crystal next to some custom chip, maybe they are talking about this crystal, I don't know.

Here are some pics I've found.
https://www.unbrokenstring.com/digitech-tsr-24/

Sparker thanks anyway for sharing the bin files  :thumb-up:
Title: Re: So I bought a Digitech TSR-24....................
Post by: Sparker on May 17, 2020, 11:27:57 AM
Some pics I have - both versions seem to be 10MHz Zilog CPU, with 20MHz crystals. EPROM is 27C2001. Gerry - can you post some similar internal pics of your version plus what the boot screen says at power up for clock speed?

Thanks
Mike

Title: Re: So I bought a Digitech TSR-24....................
Post by: rabidgerry on May 18, 2020, 01:10:46 AM
Ok I will try and get some pics this evening  :thumb-up:

As for booting up and the clock speed, mine does not display this.  I happen to know though that my firmware doesn't support 20mhz so process of elimination says I'm at 10mhz.

And my firmware is 1:01.
Title: Re: So I bought a Digitech TSR-24....................
Post by: rabidgerry on May 20, 2020, 02:32:24 PM
Sorry I have no pictures as of yet, but I will tomorrow hopefully!  Trying to do too many things at once right now hahaha  have a new scratchplate coming in the post and it's taken a bit of work to get the guy to cut it just right to fit my strat.  Long story!  But between this and work and having no motivation thanks to lock down  :facepalm: :lol: I aint been able to get the unit unracked and photographed!  But I will.

@Sparker, you think you can get a kit together?  It would be awesome for you to do so.
Title: Re: So I bought a Digitech TSR-24....................
Post by: Sparker on May 21, 2020, 03:20:20 AM
Yeah, I should think so. I've found a couple of suitable Eproms, so need get out my old programmer and copy the images in. I should have a 20MHz xtal somewhere as well. Will keep you posted.   :thumb-up:

Cheers
Title: Re: So I bought a Digitech TSR-24....................
Post by: rabidgerry on May 27, 2020, 03:08:47 AM
Yeah, I should think so. I've found a couple of suitable Eproms, so need get out my old programmer and copy the images in. I should have a 20MHz xtal somewhere as well. Will keep you posted.   :thumb-up:

Cheers
Un-racking this evening for those photos!  Just a pain in the ass sometime to do it  :lol:
Title: Re: So I bought a Digitech TSR-24....................
Post by: rabidgerry on June 08, 2020, 02:15:50 PM
finally

(https://i.ibb.co/gDMz3Sk/tsr-24-3.jpg) (https://ibb.co/19f8LrF)

(https://i.ibb.co/hZJr20T/tsr-24-2.jpg) (https://ibb.co/b2MYNtG)

(https://i.ibb.co/jRwq6P3/tsr-24-4.jpg) (https://ibb.co/pyKN0B4)

(https://i.ibb.co/jkqKYJD/tsr-24-1.jpg) (https://ibb.co/zVCcg6Z)
Title: Re: So I bought a Digitech TSR-24....................
Post by: rabidgerry on June 28, 2020, 05:12:42 AM
So that German guy who wont sell me the upgrade stuff I decided to contact him again right..........and here is why!

So I managed to bag the manual for the TSR-24.  The manual for this is nowhere to be found in internet land and you can only get the TSR-24s manual.  So I manged to get it (it the most obvious place you would expect to find it btw) and I figured I'd contact our unhelpful German friend.

So I offered to send him the manual as he has a little plea for "if you have the TSR-24 manual please send me a copy" on his website and I did so so I could ask him in exchange the exact details of the 20mhz modification for the standard TSR-24.

His response:

"HI!
I'm sorry, I can't provid information to that topic.
Best regards
"

I left his name off there as I'm nice.

Ok so what a f**king prick this guy is!  He would not even share the information about this mod, which he was UNWILLING to sell me for some stupid made up reason that aren't true since I can buy firmware chips from other Germans and after sharing something with him he would not even tell me the details of the 20mhz mod.  I am this close (....) from sending an abusive email!  :hair-out:

What an absolute prick!

Ok so we've already beat this guy once by getting the firmware which we can now burn and make roms from thank very much Sparker and thankyou very much MJMP.

So we must get the 20mhz mod done just to f*ck this guy off.  Never have I experienced such petty behaviour from someone dealing with gear online, so pathetic.  He wont sell it to me, and is also keeping the information from me so only he knows and no one else, and according to this guy he can't sell the parts to anyone in Germany so he's clearly a prick.  I did reply eventually but it was subtle.  Boy I wanted to unleash hell on that guy  >:(
Title: Re: So I bought a Digitech TSR-24....................
Post by: rnolan on June 29, 2020, 01:26:16 AM
Hey RG, Wow, how weird. So you should have offered him the manual in exchange (hind sight).
Title: Re: So I bought a Digitech TSR-24....................
Post by: rabidgerry on June 29, 2020, 01:45:28 AM
Hey RG, Wow, how weird. So you should have offered him the manual in exchange (hind sight).
Yes basically I was using the rare hard to find manual (if you search internet you will not find out unless this asshole has uploaded it somewhere for others now).  Anyways I did it as a gesture, so he might be willing to share information with me.  I basically replied with one line saying "no you can tell me the information you just wont because you are petty".  Believe me that was restrained!

I truly do not know what the issue is.  Here is a guy I was willing to give cash to, presumably he has some sort of gear tech business, so a sale is a sale right?  He not only shuts down any notion of selling to me but basically said he wouldn't sell to anyone in Germany either as I said to him I have people there who would gladly order the parts from him since he claims he cannot sell to me (said it was new EU laws etc).  So you would think now he can't sell the parts to me he could at least tell me what I need to do in order to carry out the mods myself using the help of MJMP and Sparker.

One thing is for sure, I can upgrade the firmware to the newer version which allows for the other mods to work.

The whole thing is bizarre.  :crazy:
Title: Re: So I bought a Digitech TSR-24....................
Post by: rnolan on June 30, 2020, 03:00:14 AM
I hear you my friend, what a flog this guy is being  :facepalm: :dunno: .  I suspect if you upgrade the firmware and put in the faster crystal it would probably work.  What else would you need to do except maybe change the clock speed in a config somewhere.
It's completely bizarre...
Title: Re: So I bought a Digitech TSR-24....................
Post by: rabidgerry on June 30, 2020, 07:25:27 AM
I hear you my friend, what a flog this guy is being  :facepalm: :dunno: .  I suspect if you upgrade the firmware and put in the faster crystal it would probably work.  What else would you need to do except maybe change the clock speed in a config somewhere.
It's completely bizarre...
  See it could just be that but I'm just going on what Sparker mentioned previous that perhaps a resistor or two might need changing.  I don't know enough to speculate at all so this is the only reason for hesitation.
Title: Re: So I bought a Digitech TSR-24....................
Post by: rabidgerry on July 01, 2020, 01:06:53 AM
Having gone through everything discussed here again and looking at the pictures Sparker sent and my own, it looks as though the 20mhz mod is perhaps simple enough.  The crystal gets swapped, and then lets say the caps in front of it get changed to a different value.  I guess working out the value is the hard part.
Title: Re: So I bought a Digitech TSR-24....................
Post by: rnolan on July 01, 2020, 02:42:52 AM
I don't know enough about how CPU clock circuits work but my feeling is that it's just the crystal, can't see why anything else needs to change.  E.g. if you want to overclock your computer CPU (as gamers often do) it's just a BIOS change (entry) but then they work with the same clock and use multipliers to achieve the final speed, but no components get touched.  Maybe MJMP can throw some light on it?  Do you have the circuit diagram for it?