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Author Topic: MP-2 Tremolo and MXC Quad switch  (Read 1081 times)

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rnolan

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MP-2 Tremolo and MXC Quad switch
« on: Time Format »

At rehearsal last night I decided to try out the MP-2 Tremolo, not an effect I'd futzed much with in the past.  One of the songs we are doing is Creep (Radiohead) and I'd been thinking about how to make the clean guitar part a little more interesting.  So I plugged a Quad switch into the MXC (again a bit of kit I'd not futzed with much over the years).  So it turns out that button 2 turns the Tremolo on/off (default RTM assignment) and the default Tremolo setting was pretty much the right speed etc. for what I was trying to do.  The effect sounds really good on clean patches, not so great on dirty sounds :-(.  So that's a keeper.  Though I'll have to make a separate patch which has the Tremolo on as the change between clean and dirty in Creep is quick and, if you turn the Tremolo (or anything else) on with the Quad switch, it goes off again when you change patches, and there isn't time to change from dirty back to clean and then also have to press QSw #2 to turn the Tremolo back on again. 

So I'm on a bit of a new journey with using effects.  I'd pretty much simplified my setup to only use a bit of short(ish) stereo delay and reverb on every patch and also just basically use 3 or 4 patches.  Our song selection is turning out to be quite eclectic and there's just one guitar.  So I'm starting to think more about finding some specific effects for various songs (think Powderfinger - Head Up in the Clouds, e.g. how to do those big reverse reverbs on the first solo bit (BTW any ideas for this appreciated (Harley??))).  I have a Quadverb in one rack and my small 4 RU rack has a Midiverb4 so there's plenty of effects scope available.  I'm also toying with the idea of putting my IPS33 smart shift back in the rack. I've not tried the pitch shifting in the Quadverb or Midiverb4, maybe they will be ok? But we are contemplating doing Yes - Owner of a Lonely Heart which I suspect will work better with the IPS33 (go Trevor Rabin, amazing guitarist (et al)).
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Harley Hexxe

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Re: MP-2 Tremolo and MXC Quad switch
« Reply #1 on: Time Format »

Hey Richard,
   Okay, first let's address the tremolo effect patch switching issue. I've noticed with the MP-2, when you create a program and you save it with certain effects on or off, this becomes the default setting for that program, so the MXC/Quad/CCP pedals allow you to modify that program on the fly.
    This means if you have the tremolo set up for a clean guitar tone and you want to switch to a grind tone and still have the tremolo effect on, you'll need to set it that way in the grind tone program and save it. You can bypass the effect with the Quad switch while playing if you choose to do it that way.
    Or, there is another option you might want to look into. You can also go into the RTM editing and set up the tremolo intensity to be controlled with the CCP. IF I were going to do it that way, I would set the tremolo up in the program with the intensity set to 0% as the default setting, and when you need to bring it in, just step toe down on the CCP and increase it to whatever degree you need it. (Look up the CC assignments in the manual for the intensity control number).
    Like you, I never messed with the tremolo too much either since it's not one of my favorite effects. I'm not sure if the MP-2 will work this way, but I would try to set the tremolo effect up in the MP-2 to the maximum intensity I would want it to be  and save it that way, then, hopefully the CC pedal will regulate it between 0% and the limit you set in the MP-2. I've never tried it, but in theory, it should work that way.

     Okay, the second part of your setup with your outboard effects. One thing I was advised to do a long time ago by both Digitech and Eventide, is to put my harmonizer in the front of the effects chain so it won't be affected by the other effects. This is how I would set up my effects chain if I'm going through the loops of the MP-2:
Harmonizer/Pitch Shifter>Chorus/Flange/Phaser>Delay Effects>Reverb Effects.
     I do spend some time dialing in the mix controls for each of the effects units independently from the loop mixer in the MP-2. I've have tried setting up the effects for 100% wet and mixing it in with the MP-2 loop mixer, but I've found that doesn't really sound good. So I work out the wet/dry mix in each processor, and the loop mixer in the MP-2 is set at 100% wet. I have my effects set up so I can cut each one in and out of the chain on the fly if I choose to do so.
    The Powderfinger song you refer to is completely unfamiliar to me, I've never heard it, but you should be able to get what you're looking for by setting up a reverse reverb, reverse delay, or a mixture of both in your Quadraverb. I don't own any of the Alesis effects and I'm not familiar with what you have available in those, but I feel reasonably certain they should give you all of the popular effect choices that were available back in the day.
    Since I did play Owner of a Lonely Heart with one of the bands I was with, I did find  out that I needed several Chorus settings to get through the song. For the clean guitar parts I needed a wide, slow speed chorus to give the arpeggio notes some motion and dimension. For the clean chords, a thick chorus with some short room reverb helped fill in the sound since that band didn't have a keyboard player in it. An overdriven guitar tone with the harmonizer and a hard gated reverb, alternated with a large hall reverb with a long decay helped fill in the rest.
    I'm probably forgetting a bunch of things I did with that since I'm replying to this on my first cup of coffee. But, I hope I've given you enough to get started with.
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rnolan

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Re: MP-2 Tremolo and MXC Quad switch
« Reply #2 on: Time Format »

Hey Harley, thanks for the tips.  Using my 2nd CCP for Tremolo intensity may be the best way to go.  Alternatively, just set up a bunch of patches with what I need as I'll only use it for a couple of songs.  I've only just started to use the MP-2 loop in my cut down 4RU rig.  After fiddling with it a bit, I've settled on the Midiverb4 100%wet, MP-2 mix 25% (as that what it defaults to for a patch and I was setting it up for slight short stereo delay + reverb for every patch) and then I adjusted the MV4 output to get the balance right. 

I run through a mixer in my 8RU rack which has 3 sends, 1&2 go to Quadverb and 3 to IPS33 (when I had it in the rack), IPS33 returns A/B return into 2 channels and then gets sent to QV (sends 1&2).  Since I don't use (MP-2) chorus on lead patches (where I used the IPS33) the tracking worked fine.  Initially (back in MP-1 days) I had it Guit > IPS33 in > IPS33 distortion loop send > MP-1, MP-1 A/B > mixer ch 1&2, mixer send 3 (from chn 1&2) > IPS33 dist loop return > IPS33 A/B outs > mixer (ch 3&4).  This meant I had to plug the guitar into the IPS33 input which is on the back, which was a pain.  So I ditched the IPS33 distortion loop (designed to track the direct guitar input but apply it to the distortion loop) and it tracked just fine and I could then use the MP-1 front input (much more convenient).
 
Here's the PF track, the bit I want to emulate is the short break between 1st chorus and 2nd verse.  The bass line in this song is brilliant BTW, our bass player is struggling with it but getting there, also the guitar mimics some of the stabs (G/F#/G) on the 3rd beat in the chorus, tricky timing.

 

If we decide to do Owner of a Lonely Heart, I'll keep those effect tips in mind, Rabin gets such a nice sound in those arpeggio bits...  Not sure if it's true but I did hear/read? that he used a MP-2 (and probably lots of other things...)

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Harley Hexxe

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Re: MP-2 Tremolo and MXC Quad switch
« Reply #3 on: Time Format »

Hey Richard,

     That's right, I forgot you use a mixer in your rack, so that would make it easier to bring in and out any effects you choose.

     The video you posted is unavailable, so I just looked it up on YT. A bit of studio trickery in that one. What I'm hearing in the short break between the 1st & 2nd verse is a digital delay that feeds into a reverse delay and swells like it's heading into feedback oscillation, but they cut it short before it gets to that point. In the 2nd break I hear a lot more going on. The guitar on the left channel has the tremolo set to short fast oscillations so it's subtle, and that feeds a normal digital delay, which then comes in the guitar on the right channel with the tremolo and reverse delay as it takes off into the 32nd notes and both delays are crashing into each other while that's going on. The reverse delay is volume swelled in. If you're going to reproduce this part, then you've got your work cut out for you.

     No, Trevor Rabin used Eventide 910s to record the harmonized parts of Owner Of A Lonely Heart that were mixed into his Marshall tones. There were no ADA preamps out at that time. Hey may have experimented with them later when they came out, but I don't recall anything about him recording with any of them. ADA would have been all over that one if it were true, and we would have read about it in ADA Trendz.
    Still, with the ADA gear that became available later, it also became easier to reproduce songs like that in a live rig with a lot less gear.
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rnolan

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Re: MP-2 Tremolo and MXC Quad switch
« Reply #4 on: Time Format »

Hey Harley, strange, the YT clip works for me, maybe it's a country limiting thing (like we only get some of netflix etc.)? 

Thanks for the tips (and taking the time to listen  :wave: ), I think your breakdown is reasonably correct, and, gives me some ideas.  I don't care to explicitly replicate it, but kind of capture the gist.  As you say, the 2nd break has lots of stuff happening with both PF guitarists having fun.  I haven't bothered much with effects over the years, it will be fun to futz with it and see what I can come up with.
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Harley Hexxe

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Re: MP-2 Tremolo and MXC Quad switch
« Reply #5 on: Time Format »

Yeah Richard,

      I think it might be something to do with the country licensing clause, or some similar thing.

   Playing with effects is fun, I use them a lot. There are certain effects I use the same way just because it sounds really cool with certain things I'm playing. Then, there are other times where I just want to experiment with things and see what I can come up with.
   There's all kinds of possibilities that open up when you start adding effects into the mix. Just don't go overboard with it, because that's easy to do. Have fun  :thumb-up:
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rnolan

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Re: MP-2 Tremolo and MXC Quad switch
« Reply #6 on: Time Format »

The last time I remember playing around with reverse reverbs was in Paradise studios in my 20's where we turned the 24 track tape over (play backwards into reverb (Lark 224x) record on spare tracks, turn tape back over), on some tom parts. Sounded great  :whoohoo!: .Don't worry, I wont go overboard  :thumb-up:
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Harley Hexxe

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Re: MP-2 Tremolo and MXC Quad switch
« Reply #7 on: Time Format »

I think the only time I ever played around with reverse reverb was for percussion bits, high-hats and splash cymbals, that was on a 480 LARC. Really nice machine, but way out of my price range at $15,000 USD back then.

  Of course, it did a lot more than just reverbs, but I think I get most of what I need from all the other Lexicon gear I have now 8)
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rnolan

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Re: MP-2 Tremolo and MXC Quad switch
« Reply #8 on: Time Format »

I'd like to have a Lexicon for reverb, just so nice.  We were spoiled at Paradise studio back in the day, they had a reverb room, a proper plate reverb, the top of the line (for the time) Yamaha digital reverb and the Lark 224x.  Also a marble floor, mirror tiled room for drums (or real strings etc.), Harrison desk, Studer 24 track, Sierra/Hiddly/Eastlake monitors  :whoohoo!: and my house mate was the assistant engineer there, so we got to play with it all in any down time.
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Harley Hexxe

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Re: MP-2 Tremolo and MXC Quad switch
« Reply #9 on: Time Format »

Don't give up the dream yet Richard,

    You can still find used Lexicon rack units for a pretty decent price, and for a home studio, they're great Even though they aren't as popular, the MPX-1 offers a lot of great studio effects, and few are from the 480 LARC.
   Also LXP-15, and LXP-15II, are a great budget priced studio processors. Nothing beats Lexicon for reverbs IMHO, but they also have some very signature delays and chorus/flange effects too. Many of these are in the above mentioned units, which are also stereo in and out.
   PCM-70's are mono in, stereo out, but PCM-80, and PCM-90 are Stereo ins and outs, but good luck finding the memory cards for those

   Also, the PCM-70 and PCM-80 are more multi-effects processors with a few good reverbs added in the mix, but the PCM-90 is more of a dedicated reverb processor. Just some food for thought.

    All of these things are more at home in a studio setup rather than a guitar rig, although a couple do work in a guitar rig, there is a definite lag in Lexicon's channel switching via MIDI.
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