ADA Depot - A Forum To Support Users of ADA Amplification Gear
Miscellaneous => Discussions => Topic started by: vansinn on July 03, 2017, 11:59:16 AM
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From the "New Preamp Pedal underway:
They should just make us the MP-3 we've been asking for, 3 or 4 preamp tubes, include MP-1, MP-2 and MP-1 classic tones (circuits) some decent Fx digital and analogue based on their brilliant past devices and all the goodies that are in a MP-2 and blow the AxeFx into the bit bucket by using "real" sounds. But it seems they want to make stomp boxes :facepalm: which is what I bought my first MP-1 to get away from...
Well.. one interesting aspect to this is IMHO: Will 'they' let them? I'm thinking of the Hormones..
No major product gets to market without permission and membership to the right lodges.
Another issue when developing this new potential MP-3 would be: How many effects?
A pure preamp with ample S/R loops would be sexy for many.
Include the most needed effects, and some would be totally satisfied; however, reviewers would likely comment this as being sparsely populated, and developing a full range of affects takes a lot of time - unless, of course, they'd simply license those from, say, Lexicon, in which case they'd need permission nonetheless.
I'd be totally happy with two tubes prepended by a stomp like their gain-sensitive pedal plus one parametric filter, wah, compressor/sustainer, a post-6-band EQ, a few reverbs, a multitap delay, a solo delay, true-stereo chorus and flange, tremolo, a simple pitch for playing double and a simple harmonizer for adding extra timbre; all of it hookable to an envelope follower for dynamic control based on playing style.
One relocatable mono loop, and one stereo loop, plus direct out for tuner or recording raw string.
Some analog speaker filters, and a buiild-in looper with separate outputs.
Basically an MP-2 with pre stomp and EQ, plus some effects, better speaksim and a looper.. :bow:
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I love Richard's idea of a full-tubes preamp with MP-1, MP-1 Classic and MP-2 voicings in one box and with a MDRT-like transformer.
I would also have 3-4 tubes there and the possibility to switch tubes to have normal vocings, 3TM, custom ones...
It could be a 2U rack, in order to have a good design for all of the needed boards.
A good noise gate, some built-in digital FX (classic stuff is enough...), the ADA analog chorus and a couple of programmable loops.
Full MIDI, of course.
Stereo OUTs, direct OUTs with selectable IR speakers emulation, a good headphone out.
Am I missing something?
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Ahhh, the wonderful world of dreams...
You know, it would be amazing to see what Dave Tarnowski and company could come up with as far as building an all-out rack mount preamp again, but there are a lot of things to consider before doing something like this in a practical application. For one thing, the current trend in basic guitar equipment comes to mind. Things have come full circle with respect to what is the most popular set up for the average guitar player, and that is Guitar>Pedals>Amplifier. Pretty much, exactly the way things were in the 70's when ADA first appeared on the market. While ADA was dabbling in rack effects for studios, their first contribution, dedicated to the guitar player of the day, was the Final Phase pedal. While the present day gear is still laid out as it was in the 70;s, the fidelity and technology of that gear is vastly improved from 40 years ago. While the Final Phase did offer a great phaser effect, it also offered a great sounding overdrive that was much more of a hard rock tone than the Tube Screamer, which was better for blues-styled tones. It was rich and creamy sounding compared to the raspy distortion/fuzz pedals of the day.
Also, back in the day, recording technology was still much different than it is today. Studios were still using huge mixing desks, tape recorders, and outboard effects to produce record albums, so there was a market for rack effects processors that doesn't exist today. So ADA had plenty of room to experiment with time-based, and modulation-based effects, and a viable market in which to sell them. All of that is gone today. If you have a laptop and a good audio interface, a couple of decent microphones, and a good DAW, you could produce your own album, and never see a high-dollar studio. With the internet providing world-wide access to your music in an instant, you don't have to deal with record labels either, (something they are fighting to take away from us, because they can't control the money or distribution like they once did).
While all of this was still going on, some of the more intelligent guitar and keyboard players were getting hip to the idea of using these studio processors in a live situation because the quality of their sound was well preserved and more consistent with their recorded sound, and they were not at the mercy of finicky stomp-boxes, which varied in sound quality from one box to the next. Even though the MP-1 was not the first preamp to hit the market, (I used to dabble with an Ashley SC-40 in the early to mid 80's, trying to finesse my guitar tone), it was the preamp which changed the guitar equipment set up as we knew it back then. It was the MP-1 which turned the whole industry on it's ear. It had everything it needed to be a game changer. Up to 128 great sounding amp tones, that you could get to with the step or press of a button, a very deep and lush sounding Chorus effect built-in, with access to Tube and Solid State tones, an easy to use interface, to create your own individual tones and save them, and the incorporation of MIDI technology to access everything in an instant, all in a single RU box, that you could use your studio processors with.
Rack guitar systems proved to be way over the IQ of the average guitar player, even today, and even as simple as the interface of the MP-1. They just can't seem to comprehend the scrolling parameters of a preamp vs. the twist of a knob to dial in their tone. I believe this still holds true today with the current generation of guitar players, hence, we are back to the 70's format for guitar setups, Guitar>Pedals>Amplifiers. Rack guitar systems have had their day in the limelight, and now, because of the intelligence required to make them sound phenomenal, and rival the current trend in the equipment market, it will require two things;
1), A phenomenal tube preamp, with an equally phenomenal sounding power amp than can rival all of the different gear that's out there now like Fender, Marshall, Boogie, Blackstar, and all the boutique amplifiers included, Matchless, Friedman, Soldano, Egnater, etc., and be able to deliver everything from vintage tweed and plexi tones to the ultra modern super saturated amp tones, and even introduce a few newer tones that don't exist in any of the amps available today. Also, this new preamp/power amp combination would have to have an interface that is so simple to dial in everything, that even the most stoned and drunken moron could do it in just a couple of minutes or less.
2), This might be an even more important point than the one listed above, there would have to be a very popular or even famous guitar player, to actually use this setup and record a commercial hit with this preamp/power amp setup, and endorse it to help promote sales of this new gear. This is what actually drives the market trend more than any fancy advertising available. Think about it.
Now, after stating what I just did, consider what the new be-all/end-all rack mounted preamp would have to be. To incorporate 3-4 tubes in it to reach all the basic guitar tones, would probably be very do-able, but to incorporate all the effects in the unit you guys are talking about, would probably take away the concept of simplified editing and programming. This is because now you are talking about sub menus that would have routing and signal patching chains that you would need to set up your individual tone/effects/output signal paths. This is very reminiscent of the MP-2's editing and programming capabilities. ADA learned the hard way that even though it was so much more programmable than the MP-1, and offered so much more in respect to guitar tones, (which I still believe rivals today's modern amplifiers), it failed only because it was too complex for the average guitar player to wrap his little brain around. That's why ADA's next preamp offering was the MP-1 Classic, (my favorite in terms of pure guitar tone). Even the Fractal AxeFX, which does all of these things, is still a beast to program. Steve Vai and John Petrucci both use these in their live setups, but both admit it's a headache to duplicate their actual rig's tones, and the only reason they use it is to cut down on the amount of gear they take on the road. Also, the Fractal models everything to a reasonable degree which is why it has any popularity at all. ADA's best feature is that all the tones in every preamp they ever made were all analogue signal paths, which requires the tubes to get. This is why we all love the tones we get from our ADA gear, they're real and not modeled. To add all the effects features to this kind of tone, would probably require a 4RU preamp unit, and would it be possible to make it with such a simple interface, that even an idiot could tweak it?
That sounds like a pretty tall order for Dave Tarnowski & Co. Especially when you consider that Todd Langner is no longer with us to add his imagination to the development of such a wonderful machine. I'm sure there are a lot of creative and imaginative folks at ADA today, and I certainly don't mean to imply that they aren't capable, but unless the rack systems come back into vogue for the everyday guitar player, it's going to be one heck of an expensive risk for ADA to repeat their success of 1987.
That's just my two cents.
Harley 8)
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I'd be happy with a new rack MP1. Why stick it in a pedal?
Particularly for the users of ADA Rack gear. Alot of us don't rely on pedals anymore as we have moved to.............rack gear?
Sticking an MP1 in a pedal or new version of MP1 is to my mind trying to get pedal people "types" interested in ADA stuff. No I see why this makes business sense, but it doesn't really interest the older users who like the rack format.
If they made an MP3 with 3-4 tubes I'd be happy. Give it all the usual stuff, fx loop, eq, bypass, perhaps build in a few gizmos like a tuner perhaps might be useful but generally leave the fx seperate I think. Give them an excuse to release an MFX unit then surely?? Also the inclusion of the a good worthwhile speaker sim that is switchable would be awesome for DI stuff.
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Hey Gerry,
I agree with everything you are saying here, and you are definitely spot-on about sticking the MP-1 in a pedal to get the attention of the "Pedal -Pushers." Two button, dual voiced pedals seem to be the vogue right now, which in reality is no different than a channel switching amp.
I also agree with leaving the effects out of the unit as it would make things more complicated to dial in a satisfying tone, plus something like that would jack up the price to an unreasonable amount, (Fractal, and Kemper comes to mind). There is also the issue of a power amp to go with a new rack mounted preamp, since no one is making them anymore other than Carvin, and that TS100 seems like it's targeting the Hi-Fi market more than the musical instruments market. (100 watts of transparent tube amplification).
As for a good speaker sim, a re-issue of the Microcab II would be a good bet, since it is a great sounding DI box for guitar.
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WRT pedal vs rack device, I have the perfect idea (© van Sinn):
A low-profile manually controlled pedal, featuring a side-mount utility connector.
Into this connector plugs a MIDI controller, which also features more I/O connectors on the rear.
When the two devices are combined, you have a rack device.
The pedal needs to be low profiled to fit into a 1U rack space.
The two devices needs not be half-rack; the pedal can be larger to house the needed electronics, and the controller need not be too big if using a modern touch display to substitute a number of buttons.
WRT to amount of effects, I mostly agree with Harley's notes above; however, the effects listed in my top post were intended to be non-editable down to the socks, and more of the mostly needed types, so these would still be feasible in such a design, and would reside inside the digital controller box.
I'd design this myself if I had the time, but..
@Tarnowsky: While this is by all means my idea, it's yours for usage for a few bucks ;)
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@Harley
when you say no one is making power amps any more? Is that a broad sweeping statement and you just mean there is not a lot being made these days? Or do you mean there isn't any being made?
I'm not getting into this whole "tube is better" thing again but there are quite a few power amps to chose from in my opinion these days in the SS bracket at least. Perhaps there were more back in the day that included tube types? I dunno but it depends what you want in your power amp, as there are a shit load of power amps out there that are no different from the SS Crown power amps back in the day that many were fond of coupling with rack pre's.
When I say no different, I mean, not built with amplifying guitar in mind although quite affectively did so with an MP1 or something.
But back to my point, so there seems to be a few targeting power amps for guitars, at least a few anyways, Roctron having 3 different models for this purpose.
https://www.thomann.de/gb/power_amplifiers_for_guitar.html (https://www.thomann.de/gb/power_amplifiers_for_guitar.html)
I'd expect more in the future also since these amp modelling/profiling types are getting more popular (still only encountered two AXE FX guy's and one Kemper on my travels which isn't much).
And back to the other point, I can't help feeling if the ADA guy's are showing up here hoping to get us onboard with their new ventures then we must be frustrating the hell out of them since we don't want a pedal. They probably think we are a bunch of rack dinosaurs :facepalm:
So I dunno where that leaves us since they aren't going to make a rack unit.
@Harely, yep those amp in a box pedals are definitely are everywhere, they have been the last few years. No appeal to me. For god sake, I just got into rack shit a few years ago :lol:
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I hear ya Gerry,
You're just getting into the stuff many of us on this Forum have been playing with for the last 30+ years, and I agree there is nothing else like it when your amp system is blowing everybody away including you!
I still get blown away by the tones I get, but yeah, as far as tube power amps go, there is hardly anyone on this side of the pond that's making them. I've got the two Classic 50/50's hooked up, but haven't really had the time to dig in with them. There's been a lot going on around here the last few days, but I'm on a two week vacation right now, and I don't plan on letting it go by without spending some quality studio time. My plans for my vacation time are simple: Playing a lot of guitar, and Grillin' & Chillin'.
I know that nothing comes close to the rack gear, but around my part of the world, the live music scene is basically dead. SO I'm thinking about something I've been curious about and posted on another topic, and that would be how would the APP-1 sound with the MP-1 Channel in it's effects loop? It would be interesting to me to find out. Who knows? I might like it. Besides, with the state of the live music scene in my area being what it is, I'm not really motivated to take a full-blown rack system to a jam session. I'm not getting any younger.
A suitcase fly-rig is more appealing in that sense.
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Mmmmmmmmmh, so many interesting points of view here...
If I recall any configuration my sound passed through in the last 30 years, I see that I mainly experimented many different solutions to find MY sound/tones.
Was I maybe 100% aware of this? No, of course.
I started playing guitar at the age of 12...I had my first electric guitar at 16 (a serious guitar, indeed...the 1998 Strat Plus I still own...), after I removed 6 strings from my amplified 12 strings acoustic to learn "Running free" power chords (my poor fingers...) fron Live after Death vinyl LP and booklet (yes....I was used to look at how and where guitar players put their fingers and Adrian Smith was my personal Guitar Hero).
I then bought a 15 watt solid state small Squier amp and an Arion distortion pedal: at that time, to me it was an awesome sound (I wasn't aware about clean sounds yet... :lol:)
After some times I started feeling the need of something more and I bought a Fender Deluxe '85 solid state amp.
No stomps at all, just amp clean and distorted sounds and some reverb.
Believe it or not, with that guitar and that amp I played a lot of stuff from classic rock to blackest, brutal and powerful thrash/death metal (seriously) for years.
Then I/we discovered rack units (it was year 1990) and sold the Fender amp for a 8080 Valvestate combo to have a Marshall sound (I used an ART SGE Mach II and then a Zoom 9030 connected to that amp).
I started messing with that stuff as many other friends and we did not have any f**king internet to waste time on and so we were focused on learning, playing and finding good tones by programming those rack tubes preamps and digital effects units.
It was not difficult: it was FUNNY!
Additional MIDI options and noise gates opened our minds to useful new solutions that allowed us to throw stomps and pedals out of the window and forget about tip-tap dancing and uncontrollable noise.
We simply were HAPPY...and we loved to have more and more of that stuff in our racks.
A good rack controlled by MIDI boards, a good 4x12 cab, bridge humbuckers and a Floyd Rose: f*ck the Blues! :lol:
Guitar heroes, shred and heavy tones everywhere.
I still love Queensryche and their guitar wizardry and tones.
Many years passed...things changed...I sold my rack and cab and bought a Line 6 Flextone II 2x12 combo with a Floorboard.
It looked like perfection....and it was not.
I attempted for a lot of time to get some good tones with some dynamics from that thing...and then I gave up.
I also found that I don't like SIMULATIONS: I prefer to break my head with real stuff.
I sold the amp and bought a Mesa Caliber 50+ combo...a blast of an amp, but you cannot use it alone at home...unless you do not want to try to be arrested.
I discovered that stomp boxes have had some improvements...and I spent the next years buying and selling stomps to find a good combination.
It took a lot of time...until today.
I found a good stomps combination (you can see the stomps I'm currently using somewhere in the Depot), with all the guitar tones I need and like...and I use that stuff when I play with my band, since I can easily bring my guitar sounds/effects/tones on the studio and connect to any amp I find there.
It works.
Then I started messing with racks again...and I've to say you have so many more possibilities that, if I were forced to choose, I would throw stomps out of the window again.
There's a lot of old stuff that still breaks the ass to modern, digital stuff...if you know how to use it.
You've not to make it complicated to find good tones: a good tubes preamp, some basic digital effects, a good power amp and a stereo cab.
And MIDI, of course.
What I discovered, at the end, is that I finally found MY sounds/tone and it doesn't matter if I use the racks or the stomp boxes...it doesn't matter the amp I connect my stuff too...and it doesn't matter the guitar and pickups I use: MY sound is there all the time (something MJMP verified with my MP-1 patches: the EQ shape I use there is the same I use with any preamp, stomp or amp I use...the secret is MIDRANGE...and usage of your EARS...^^).
This is a result that is of utmost importance to me.
I see a lot of people here in Italy buying and selling guitars, stomps, amps...then going from all analog and fuzzy to digital perfection.....buying Axe Fx or Kemper units....then selling everything to go for an amp and stomps again, because it's too difficult....and so on, on an infinite loop.
Having no idea of what they want to achieve at all: it's just a game of buying and selling to spend some time (and lot of money).
Useless.
I do not want to mean that I spend all of my time in consciously researching something, but there's always something that works on that direction anyway.
Having so said, probably Harley is right and the market is made of some pros and many, many, many others that only have some money to spend.
On this market, if you want to sell something, you've to understand what people would buy.
No way.
This is what makes a place like this and the people who makes it alive something still MAGIC.
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An interesting history of self-discovery Max,
It's a cool epiphany when you discover your tone and it strikes a chord with your inner self, and that inspires you to discover more tones that end up complimenting each other as a whole.
I've been fortunate enough to find several tones that are a good fit for me that range from clean to gnarly overdrive, to downright nasty distortion. It's all in your head and fingers. Guitars, amps, effects,(albeit racks or stomps), are merely tools to help us achieve what we are searching for. Some of us know what we want, and others are trying out different things until finally, something happens that just strikes that inner chord and makes their spirit sing.
Everything has it's place, and it doesn't matter if it's in a rack or in a pedal. I have racks that make gearheads green with envy, yet I still own old Fender amps that deliver clean, loud one-dimensional tones. For those old Fenders, I refuse to modify them and have effects loops added to the circuitry, so, for those I'll use stomp boxes. With the technology and the quality of the stomps today, I don't sacrifice anything from the basic clean amp tones, and I simply manipulate it with the stomps that I add to them. The cool thing about that is that if I wanted to, I could just take two Fender Twins and the stomps, and do the whole gig with just that, and it would still sound just as good as the rack systems, because it still sounds like me.
With the Fenders, it's just simplicity, all physical connections. and the basic chain of effects can vary depending on the set list, and it's something like this:
Guitar,
Volume pedal (optional)
Wah pedal
Harmonizer (optional)
Overdrive/Distortion
Stereo Chorus (where the signal splits the amps)
Phase or Flange pedal (depending on my mood)
Delay pedal (at least one, maybe two if I need short and long delay)
Reverb (already in the amps)
For a more adventurous set up, I place the Chorus after the Wah, and use an Overdrive on one output, and a different Overdrive or Distortion on the other output, then add a Delay to each signal path, for two distinct amp tones, or combined for solo boost.
The racks are similar, just no Overdrive or Distortion needed there, but the effects are basically the same. The major difference here is the speaker characteristics. I'm not into the super-saturated distortion tones because I want to keep the clarity of the guitar intact, so when I'm dialing in any kind of overdrive, I push it to the point where the clarity starts to diminish, then back it off. It lets the guitar sit better in the overall band mix.
I know there are stacked humbuckers that would eliminate the hum associated with single coil pickups, but so far, nothing DiMarzio or Duncan has put out has impressed me because the timbre of the quintessential Strat tone is lost with every one of them. (Obviously, Jimi Hendrix had the strongest influence on me).
Discovering your tone is probably more important than any gear you choose, because once you have your tone, you'll get that out of any gear you end up buying, because your ears will tell you when you have it set right. Whether you choose rack gear, or even a pedal fly rig, you'll still end up going for the tone you want to hear. At least, that's how it is for me.
@ Gerry,
I grew up playing through tube amps and I can say beyond any doubt that something does get lost with the SS amps. Even though I still like the B200S power amps better than any others that I've tried, there is still something lacking there. They are the cleanest, and quietest of the SS power amps, with the best EQ curve for guitar, and they are definitely my "go-to" SS power amp of choice, but they do not have that tube mojo. I don't really know any other way to describe it.
@Sinn,
What you described there sounds a lot like the G-System. Any effects added into a preamp would have to have some kind of parameter adjustment. Not everyone wants to hear the same Chorus effect for example, dialed into one setting alone, with only the ability to turn it on or off. At least I wouldn't want it that way, it's too limiting.
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@ Gerry,
I grew up playing through tube amps and I can say beyond any doubt that something does get lost with the SS amps. Even though I still like the B200S power amps better than any others that I've tried, there is still something lacking there. They are the cleanest, and quietest of the SS power amps, with the best EQ curve for guitar, and they are definitely my "go-to" SS power amp of choice, but they do not have that tube mojo. I don't really know any other way to describe it.
I have the same feeling!!
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@ Gerry,
I grew up playing through tube amps and I can say beyond any doubt that something does get lost with the SS amps. Even though I still like the B200S power amps better than any others that I've tried, there is still something lacking there. They are the cleanest, and quietest of the SS power amps, with the best EQ curve for guitar, and they are definitely my "go-to" SS power amp of choice, but they do not have that tube mojo. I don't really know any other way to describe it.
I have the same feeling!!
Well....I could state the same...
I had the B200s for some time and it's an awesome amp...but now, with a full tube power amp, I feel more overall "grit".
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Discovering your tone is probably more important than any gear you choose, because once you have your tone, you'll get that out of any gear you end up buying, because your ears will tell you when you have it set right. Whether you choose rack gear, or even a pedal fly rig, you'll still end up going for the tone you want to hear. At least, that's how it is for me.
You've centered the point, Harley. :thumb-up:
Once, guitar players and gear producers were less concentrated on market and marketing...
Some people had a project and they just attempted to make it real.
MP-1 was born that way.
The rest was just a joy to discover.
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Hey Max,
The point I expressed was clearly from my own point of view. It may apply to others, and it may not. Everyone is different, but that doesn't mean anyone is right or wrong, just different.
Although I feel I have to mention this as well...as far as gear is concerned, not everything and anything that is available on the market will be able to deliver the tone you might be after. Some gear just simply can't do it. I really don't have to say this, but not all amps are created equal. IF they were, then there would be only one amp, and all of us would be using the same thing. That doesn't sound like fun.
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Hey Max,
The point I expressed was clearly from my own point of view. It may apply to others, and it may not. Everyone is different, but that doesn't mean anyone is right or wrong, just different.
Although I feel I have to mention this as well...as far as gear is concerned, not everything and anything that is available on the market will be able to deliver the tone you might be after. Some gear just simply can't do it. I really don't have to say this, but not all amps are created equal. IF they were, then there would be only one amp, and all of us would be using the same thing. That doesn't sound like fun.
That's right and I agree with you, Harley.
What I wanted to mean, by the way, is that today's market is often lead by a lot of people who's more concentrated on buying and buying gear they actually do not need rather than looking for some concrete results to achieve.
And that's a shame that many gear producers have to follow such ways if they want to sell their products.
This is a great limitations to new ideas and solutions.
It's not a matter of what you use: I use my rack stuff at home and my stomps with the band and I'm always happy with my personal sounds.
I do not prefer a solution rather than the other, they both are good solutions for my purposes.
But I would love new rack products to be developed for people like us, who would learn how to use them and then USE them, rather than digital stuff that can be used to emulate this and that and, at the end, has not the grit of the real things.
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From a business standpoint, i think ADA should make a rack pre amp and not a pedal.
a lot of companies have pre amps in pedal form already. a lot of people think they can get a cranked plexi tone with there $300 bogner red pedal plugged into whatever amp they have. what they fail to realize is the entire signal chain from guitar- pedals- pre amp- power section- cab is what defines the over all sound. having a pedal marketed as "the plexi sound" won't make your 20 watt solid state sound like a 100 watt plexi.
ADA is not as well known as they once were 30 years ago. Most stores don't even carry their products. they need to make a product that stands out like they once did. people who rely on pedals to get their distortion may want this pedal. but what about the guys like me who like to get their distortion through crank the shit out of their power section and boosting it even more? i wouldn't need to buy this pedal because i get my overdrive from the power section.
IMO (dont' take offense anyone) the key to a good distortion is from a cranked power section. the power section really defines the sound of the amp. hooking up my MP1 to my mesa sounds completely different than hook it up to my marshalls. i don't run my od1 and od2 that high. i rely on my power section to get those saturated tones.
end of the day, to non ADA users, a pedal form mp3 is just like a distortion pedal with tubes in it. mesa and h&k has one and it doesn't seem all that popular. what will make the ADA stand out compared to the rest?
if i had a say, i would want a full tube head from ADA and show Marshall how a hot rodded Marshall should sound like. Most people who bought into the ADA in the past wanted that hot rodded JCM 800 tone anyways. also. no built in effects and other BS. save that for companies who actually makes effects. 30 years later, we are still using the MP1. do you think 30 years later, we will be using that new ADA pedal. MOST people prefer the jcm 800 to anything recent that marshall has came up because they got it right in the past already. I would improve the MP1. Make the eq more controllable. built in parametric (furman pq3) style. ADA got the mp1 right in the past. expand on it. Marshall should of done what Friedman, Bogner is doing. These guys expanded on what Marshall got it right 30 years ago.
i love to show off my ADA logo when i have the chance to. no one can see what pedals i am using if it's on the floor.
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I like the idea of a 3-4 tube MP-1 reissue, but with a redesigned easier to use front panel. I'm thinking rotary and slider encoders with LED status. I would include tube reverb, but no other effects (parallel and series effects loops available). I would pair it up with a redesigned dedicated floor board (not MIDI), much like the Kemper or Helix floor boards, using industrial-grade CAT6 cable; a novel concept might be to be able to add effects via the floor board, either as physical modules or digital models. Add an editor for Mac/PC via USB connection.
It should be offered with a matching 100W tube power amp. Add a cool head cabinet that holds both and is about the size of a smaller Marshall so it can be carried around conveniently and placed on top of 4x12s.
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I'm with Chamai on that aspect; an actual all-tube 50-60 watt amp head would be a great idea.
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So I mix tube SS and digital with my setup. To me that's a finger in all pies.
Gonna piss on some corn flakes here by saying I think there is a heavy bias towards valves in general at the depot and perhaps it taints anything other than this. Just somthing I've noticed. Personal preference is fine, each to their own, but it shouldn't be "one way is the only way" or "one way is the best way". Best way for you may be???
I believe a good sound is a good sound myself, and I don't care how it's made. There is not one way to skin a cat. I have heard tones from SS and tube on records I love so I will not side with either. My own choice of gear has come down to A)finance , B)practicality and C) Taste/How it sounds and yes in that order.
So what makes the ADA B200s so special? To me it has nothing more than any other basic SS power amp in regards to features, so why do I sense a candle burning for this particular amp? Is this a full range amp or has it some sort of guitar tailored frequency range?
One of the best SS power amps I have read about is the Mosvalve MV-982. It at least has a presence knob. Again, not really any idea what makes it better than any other SS power amp, but I assume there is some guitar tailoring to it's frequency range.
In reference to the topic, ADA will never make a new rack, unless it reall kicks off again. However (and I do not know if I am part of this, or if I was just before it) but rack gear is getting a little more popular again. I noticed after a year or two after getting my first MP1. And I think kids at our shows who have seen me with rack shit take note of the gear use, and I'm sure others using rack are rubbing off on the kids at their shows in the same way.
@Kim, sure if they make an amp cool, it wouldn't interest me personally though as I've gone to rack amp setup.
@GuitarBuilder, yes this would be good, 3-4 tube new preamp. But I wouldn't want it called a re-issue, just the next model of the same line perhaps, so ADA-MP3 or ADA-3TP so you don't have the awful confusion with MP3 audio files.
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@ Chamai,
ADA was best known for rack gear, not guitar amps, even though they were trying to move in that direction towards the end, before they disappeared. As I pointed out in my earlier post, for the current ADA team to design and build a new rack based on the MP-1's simplicity, but would stand up to the sounds of today's amplifiers, would be a very expensive risk for them. Maybe, (this is pure speculation on my part), if they had not disappeared in 1994, and had been around making amps, and such all this time it might be a different story. But that's something no one could know for sure, because they've been gone a long time. So now they're back, and I'm sure funds and resources are very limited for them at the present time, and they are basically starting like a new company that has never been around before. The current market is very different for them than it was back in the 70's. Sadly, guitar-based arena rock isn't at the top of the charts these days, but electronic based loops with weird vocorder induced vocals creating syrupy melodies is what's in the Top 40. Hard Rock and Metal are basically underground these days. So, from a business standpoint, a new ADA rack is an expensive and risky proposition at the present time.
I partially agree with you about how the power amp section is an essential part of the overall tone of the electric guitar, but I think you are leaving something out of your equation. The preamp, and how it hits the poweramp in the front end of it is what determines how the overdrive come out to the speakers. This was an argument I had with ADA a long time ago before they disappeared, was that the preamp over powering the front end of the power amp combined, was what made the kind of overdrive that everyone loved out of a guitar amplifier, but by then, the T100S was already out of production, as it was getting too expensive to make, and sales weren't that good for it.
As for the amp head, maybe if ADA had been around to support the line of combo amps they were making, and growing their catalog of guitar amplifiers, they would have eventually worked up a 100 Watt tube beast that could go toe to toe with the best of them. But they vanished only a few short months after they introduced their combos.
@Guitar Builder,
It would be nice to see a system like you describe from ADA, but I disagree with the proprietary floorboard concept. MIDI should be kept in place because it makes it more accessible to other market controllers, and is more economically feaseable, but definitely the addition of USB for connectivity to a Mac or PC is a good idea, for recording into a DAW direct. And as an afterthought, it's also a good idea for editing the parameters of the preamp in your laptop, maybe even to download updates to the software to keep the preamp current.
@ Gerry,
Yeah brother, there is a heavy bias that leans towards the valve amplifiers here, but that's because those of us who were fortunate enough to experience a good quality valve amp, with speaker cabs that matched up to them, have heard and even felt the difference that it makes. No one here has laid down the law and stated that this is the only way it should be done, we've only stated that this is something that we personally prefer for our own guitar tastes.
I agree with you fully on the fact that a good sound is exactly that, a good sound, and it doesn't matter what you use to get it. I stated that in an earlier post on this topic, about how everyone who knows what kind of tone they are looking for, will go after that tone on any gear they end up buying. Brand names really mean nothing when you can get what you are after from the gear you are able to afford.
I also agree with your statement about ADA making a new rack system, because racks are in the underground scene right now and not in the mainstream. I also wouldn't buy an ADA amp head if they came out with one either, since I never bought or even tried out any of the ADA combo amps they had out before they vanished. I had too much money, time and effort invested in my rack gear at that point to just simply drop it and follow that new trend. I've never been one to follow trends anyway. I've always used whatever worked for me to give me the tone I was after. Even in the 90's, when I would go buy a piece of rack equipment that I needed, I would hear some of the sales guys tell me that racks weren't in fashion anymore. I would always reply with the fact that racks, like amplifiers were only tools, not clothing, something they weren't smart enough to see. It pissed off a few of them HAH!
As for your tone, I like the tone you're getting, and I believe you are going about it the right way for you, as I have heard a lot of your music already. (Still waiting on that album to see how it pans out as a body of work). I've turned on a few people here locally to RBOTN, and so far, the reaction seems to be positive. It may please you to know that some of the guitar players that I've let hear a couple of the songs, have all commented about your guitar tone in a positive way also. A few like me, have compared it to vintage Priest tones.
I also agree with the MP3 label. "MP" was a designation for MIDI Preamp, but if they add USB to it, what would that be, MUP-1, or UMP-1? Does it then become a Pre-UMP? :lol:
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Guess what?
At the end, I own a MP-1 (pimped by MJMP) with a good MIDI digital fx unit, a good MIDI board, a tube power amp and a cabinet.
And I own a tube amp with some good stomps (and the Bogner Ecstasy Red is a very good preamp pedal that sounds awesome with ANY amp you connect it to....who cares about "plexi sounds"? :lol:).
I can work out my personal sounds from any of this items.
ADA and other producers can do what they want.
I can survive with my gear for the next 50 years. :headbanger: :headbanger: :headbanger:
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Haha a Pre-ump good one Harley :thumb-up:
But I can understand what you're trying to say Harley, back in the 80's we didn't have a lot of stuff available, but what was available was good. Now there's a lot more, a lot cheaper but it doesn't sound so good. Maybe it's a generation thing >:D
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Sometimes it does feel like "according to the law of tubes..................we say NO"
Ok for me, I don't care, a good sound is a good sound.
For you guys thinking older stuff is better, well I dunno, who determines what is better globally?
I will make this point, you guy's all respect Wagener right? You all love his use of the MP1 too and how he championed it for so long right?
Well guy's he's ditched it for a Kemper. If shit really wasn't as good or on par with older stuff surely a guy like Mick Wagener is going to be able to tell, after all he is older generation?
That's all I can say.
Now I don't play modern tube amps, or old ones for that matter, but I have tried both and they just didn't work out for me. So there is no difference to me in regards to this.
However I have sought out older equipment to achieve something I want sonically (I can't name what it is as I haven't the words).
Could I get the tones I wanted from the gear I was using in the early years......well yes I could, but I experimented and morphed things around and my taste changed and developed and now I'm using tube preamps. OLD gear from the 80's. And my FX unit is 21 years old as well. In fact nothing I use is modern by today's standards.
Do I think I could swap all the older stuff for newer stuff to replicate? I dunno, I can't answer it until I try all the new stuff. Will I try the new stuff? Nope because I'm happy exploring and developing at my own pace. I'll not rule it out though.
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Gerry,
I do like Wagener's work, at least some of it that he has done in the past, but the fact that he endorses the Kemper, doesn't mean a lot. Of course, he touts it off as a Profiler rather than a modeller, but that's a different angle for a sales pitch, The truth is, his world is in a studio. A high dollar studio with all the possible equipment that none of us here would be able to afford without taking a 2nd mortgage on our homes. What does this mean? It means whatever tones he can't quite reproduce, or, "profile" accurately in the Kemper, he can compensate, and manipulate it with the gear and software in his studio. Does he take the Kemper out and play it in a live situation with a band? No. How then can he know how it would act in that situation? He can't.
So, am I going to rush out and drop $5000 on the Kemper toaster oven? Not likely.
Oh, and I just realized that I didn't answer your question in my last post, and that would be "YES" the B200S does have an EQ curve designed specifically for the guitar. That's been posted in several topics here.
Once again, the preference for the B200S, (speaking strictly for myself), is just a matter of personal taste, based on my comparisons of them and the Microtube power amps, as well as a couple of the Marshall valvestate power amps. Does that mean you have to choose that? No. It just means we like those compared to the other ADA SS power amps. After all, this is an ADA Forum.
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That's not really what I meant in regards to Wagener.
What I'm saying is, he is of the same generation as you guys (I think) and he is able to use these modern gadgets without turning his nose up or thinking the old stuff is better. He's thinking, this new shit can do the old shit :whoohoo!: no more tube issues etc
He basically said he has a bunch of vintage amps and preamps in his studio now that he hasn't used in quite some time (what a shame). So if he hasn't, he pretty much has moved on.
Oh and all the jiggery pokery he has to do to get the Kemper sounding right (and lets face it, that's a guess as we don't know what he does or how easy it is), he has had to do that with tube amps and preamps at some point also, but perhaps in a different way.
You mentioned about cost as though it's a deflecting factor in you getting a kemper, hang on? I thought you were against the kemper because you thought tubes was best?
If it's a matter of cost then this means you think the new gear sounds ok. But you don't right? So why would the cost be a factor? ???
I'm also going to mention that, I like the gear I use as it sets me apart from everyone I have ever played with to date! No uses the same guitars as me, pickups, FX, amps, preamps. Perhaps all my gear is shit, but when the kids are staring at my gear wondering what the f*ck it is at least they see I'm no sheep running out buying a black Ibanez and a f**king ENGL powerball :facepalm:
Give me my stock MP1 and a boost any day :thumb-up: and a really loud f**king preamp :lol:
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@ Chamai,
ADA was best known for rack gear, not guitar amps, even though they were trying to move in that direction towards the end, before they disappeared. As I pointed out in my earlier post, for the current ADA team to design and build a new rack based on the MP-1's simplicity, but would stand up to the sounds of today's amplifiers, would be a very expensive risk for them. Maybe, (this is pure speculation on my part), if they had not disappeared in 1994, and had been around making amps, and such all this time it might be a different story. But that's something no one could know for sure, because they've been gone a long time. So now they're back, and I'm sure funds and resources are very limited for them at the present time, and they are basically starting like a new company that has never been around before. The current market is very different for them than it was back in the 70's. Sadly, guitar-based arena rock isn't at the top of the charts these days, but electronic based loops with weird vocorder induced vocals creating syrupy melodies is what's in the Top 40. Hard Rock and Metal are basically underground these days. So, from a business standpoint, a new ADA rack is an expensive and risky proposition at the present time.
I partially agree with you about how the power amp section is an essential part of the overall tone of the electric guitar, but I think you are leaving something out of your equation. The preamp, and how it hits the poweramp in the front end of it is what determines how the overdrive come out to the speakers. This was an argument I had with ADA a long time ago before they disappeared, was that the preamp over powering the front end of the power amp combined, was what made the kind of overdrive that everyone loved out of a guitar amplifier, but by then, the T100S was already out of production, as it was getting too expensive to make, and sales weren't that good for it.
As for the amp head, maybe if ADA had been around to support the line of combo amps they were making, and growing their catalog of guitar amplifiers, they would have eventually worked up a 100 Watt tube beast that could go toe to toe with the best of them. But they vanished only a few short months after they introduced their combos.
@Guitar Builder,
It would be nice to see a system like you describe from ADA, but I disagree with the proprietary floorboard concept. MIDI should be kept in place because it makes it more accessible to other market controllers, and is more economically feaseable, but definitely the addition of USB for connectivity to a Mac or PC is a good idea, for recording into a DAW direct. And as an afterthought, it's also a good idea for editing the parameters of the preamp in your laptop, maybe even to download updates to the software to keep the preamp current.
@ Gerry,
Yeah brother, there is a heavy bias that leans towards the valve amplifiers here, but that's because those of us who were fortunate enough to experience a good quality valve amp, with speaker cabs that matched up to them, have heard and even felt the difference that it makes. No one here has laid down the law and stated that this is the only way it should be done, we've only stated that this is something that we personally prefer for our own guitar tastes.
I agree with you fully on the fact that a good sound is exactly that, a good sound, and it doesn't matter what you use to get it. I stated that in an earlier post on this topic, about how everyone who knows what kind of tone they are looking for, will go after that tone on any gear they end up buying. Brand names really mean nothing when you can get what you are after from the gear you are able to afford.
I also agree with your statement about ADA making a new rack system, because racks are in the underground scene right now and not in the mainstream. I also wouldn't buy an ADA amp head if they came out with one either, since I never bought or even tried out any of the ADA combo amps they had out before they vanished. I had too much money, time and effort invested in my rack gear at that point to just simply drop it and follow that new trend. I've never been one to follow trends anyway. I've always used whatever worked for me to give me the tone I was after. Even in the 90's, when I would go buy a piece of rack equipment that I needed, I would hear some of the sales guys tell me that racks weren't in fashion anymore. I would always reply with the fact that racks, like amplifiers were only tools, not clothing, something they weren't smart enough to see. It pissed off a few of them HAH!
As for your tone, I like the tone you're getting, and I believe you are going about it the right way for you, as I have heard a lot of your music already. (Still waiting on that album to see how it pans out as a body of work). I've turned on a few people here locally to RBOTN, and so far, the reaction seems to be positive. It may please you to know that some of the guitar players that I've let hear a couple of the songs, have all commented about your guitar tone in a positive way also. A few like me, have compared it to vintage Priest tones.
I also agree with the MP3 label. "MP" was a designation for MIDI Preamp, but if they add USB to it, what would that be, MUP-1, or UMP-1? Does it then become a Pre-UMP? :lol:
the reason why i said ADA should be making a head instead of a rack is because rack units are really out of style. i agree the pre amp is very important to the sound that is why i said each piece in the signal chain from guitar to pre amp to power to speaker plays a part in the overall sound.
i agree ADA will be taking a huge risk but imo, the pedal market is just saturated. if ADA were to make a rack or a head, i am sure more of us here on adadepot will pick one up. i think ADA should target the people here on adadepot Since we are the people who actually know a bit about the history ADA. lots of us are waiting for a MP3 and not a pedal.
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Chamai,
What you just said is the same thing I used to hear from the sales clerks in the music shops in the 90's, "rack units are really out of style." I already posted my reply to that earlier.
As far as an amp head goes, ADA would have to get it right the first time, to break into the already saturated market for amplifiers, and they would have to make it affordable to be competitive in the market, and that may be the most difficult hurdle for them to jump over.
To target us here at the ADA Depot as the main source of marketing for either an amp head or a new rack preamp,(whatever it may be called), is very impractical from a business point of view because we are only a tiny percentage of guitar players in the world-wide market. Think about it.
Pedals are more affordable and accessible to the world market of guitar players at the moment, and the pedals they currently offer, are aimed at the fly-rig market, to eliminate the need for bulky amplifiers. That's not hard to see.
If they did come out with a new rack mounted preamp, sure, I'd be very interested in auditioning it, and if it gives me the usable tones that I would expect from ADA, I'd more than likely buy it. That doesn't mean that everyone else in the guitar world would do the same thing. With either an amp head or a rack mounted preamp, that's where the big gamble for ADA would be in the present market situation.
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If ADA were to make heads - and I agree on this, they should make four models:
A mono all-tube head, and a mono tube-pre with solid state / class-D power section.
The other two models should simply be stereo versions.
Five-band tone stack, almost like a normal stack, but with bass lifted a tad and an extra lo - for the large 7/8 string market.
No effects, other than a comp/sustainer, a fairly simple reverb (spring, small + medium plate, larger gated), and maybe a smooth chorus. No more. Oh well, a send/return loop, of course..
All models should be made with rotary encoders rather than pots; reason being that this would enable adding a MIDI module as a post-mount option.
The MIDI could be a two-part: One front-mount with a few controls, and one rear-mount for interfacing.
Simply added by removing a blank and inserting the module(s).
No matching speakers on initial launch; there are enough of those to choose from.
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Gerry,
Wagener might be in our age group, but he is a studio guy, an Engineer/ Producer, he is NOT a musician. He doesn't take the Kemper out to a gig and play through it, so he has no clue how it would respond in that application. He only speculates about it from his use of the Kemper in his studio, but the truth is he doesn't know. I watched the interview about that too.
In that interview, he basically describes the way he has to get the models in the Kemper by "recording" if you will, the actual amp with a guitar into it, and it supposedly approximates the range of the amplifiers he puts into it. It sounds like a complicated process because there are so many variables involved in creating these models, or "profiles" as he calls them. For instance, what guitar are you using with the amp? What EQ settings? Speaker cabs? etc. This is also the reason he still has all those vintage amps around. He still needs them to create new models in the Kemper. It does appear to have limitations in the models you create, and this means it can only simulate a limited range of the guitar/amp model you are sampling into it.
Getting back to the studio situation, yes he is using this kind of technology because the more he uses this, the less time he has to spend out in the studio setting up mics and getting into arguments with younger guitar players about the levels of their amplifiers and so on, I'm sure you can relate to this as you have done your own recordings and had to fuss with all these details.
The reason I threw the price of this thing into the topic is because it's ridiculous. What would justify that price tag? Is it the idea that since it's the most expensive, then it must be the best? Nonsense.
Even if it were more affordable, I wouldn't want one, just because I have enough experience with modelling amps now, to know they aren't quite as good as real amps unless you confine yourself within the limits of the modelling amp, and the genre of songs you are playing. That's an unacceptable compromise.
So I have tried some of the new gear and tried to put it into practical application for my purposes, but have discovered a fair amount of disappointments with it, so I'm done with all that modelling technology.
Also, as a footnote, I am using a modelling guitar now, and it's definitely not that compatible with modelling amps, but through real amps, it delivers very convincing renditions of the guitars it models. So again, the modelling amps are limited in that respect.
If the new gear works for you, and you get what you are looking for out of it, as I stated in an earlier post on this topic, then it doesn't matter what brand it is, or what it is, you are going after the tone you hear in your head, and getting it. So there is no right or wrong about it.
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Well not strictly speaking Wagener was a musician first. He played guitar in the band that later became Accept.
Also no one specified what use any of this modern gear had to be good at. So say it is only good in the studio and not live, would you use it?
I for one can't comment, I've not used it in any capacity. Have you used one? Can you say it would not stack up in a live situation?
The price thing, man the price of a good f**king tube amp is ridiculous never mind a Kemper. I could not afford a JCM800 from brand new. https://www.thomann.de/gb/marshall_2203.htm?glp=1&gclid=COib9ILv99QCFfAV0wodN2APSg (https://www.thomann.de/gb/marshall_2203.htm?glp=1&gclid=COib9ILv99QCFfAV0wodN2APSg)
I'm sure a could afford the rip off Bugera JCM900 rip off but MJMP would probably make fun of me (despite that cheaper rip off getting outstanding reviews).
Anyways
I couldn't afford this either
https://www.thomann.de/gb/kemper_profiling_amp_head_wh_set.htm?ref=search_rslt_kemper_356926_12 (https://www.thomann.de/gb/kemper_profiling_amp_head_wh_set.htm?ref=search_rslt_kemper_356926_12)
boy does it look shit as well lol but hey I'm giving it a fair shot, I have never used one so I can't really say, and it takes me to use something to find out if I can get what I want from it.
Demos online? I don't trust any of them. If I had listened to the available demos online of the MP1 I would never have bought one as most of them are shit.
I always need to try something, just the way I am as I tend to set shit up differently than most.
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Gerry,
No I haven't tried it, and I probably won't because I won't even considyouer spending that kind of money on the thing, and yeah, you are looking at the ugly little toaster oven I was talking about.
Hell, I could go buy a Friedman SS100 for $3500, and that is a good tube amp, if I were interested in going to amp heads, which I'm not. The point is, that cheaper than the Kemper, and a hell of a lot easier to dial in your tone.
Wagener admits that he has to go back and redo the samples in the Kemper, because you can't capture all the nuances in one shot. So how many times do you have to profile an amp to catch everything it does? And if you have multiple amps like I do, you'd have to repeat that entire process with each one. That sounds like a big pain in the ass that never ends.
Yeah, you could go get a Bugera, and I'm sure MJMP will ride you like a horse about it. I've tried those a few years back, not the kind of overdrive/distortion I'm used to. Those are pretty cheap too, and so are Blackstar. It seems those are one of the more popular selling amps around here for the last couple of years. The local music shop down the street from me sells them, and I tried a couple of them. Good clean tone, but again like the Bugera, the Distortion is not me, so I wouldn't buy one of them either.
As I said in my last post, I'm through with modelling amps and their limitations, and I've already spent enough on them, in terms of time and money, to learn this. I'll stick with real amps because it's so much more satisfying.
As for brand names, whatever works. I've posted that several times here. Take me for example. I recently bought two Peavey Classic 50/50 power amps to replace the Microtube power amps I've been using for years. Now I'm basically a Fender/ADA guy for the most part, but I've been wanting to upgrade my sound to tube amps for years. I've been holding out for a T100S, but they are few and far between, and when one does come up, then I'm usually tied up in something else and can't afford it. So, f*ck IT! I bought the Peavey's. A brand name that most of their product line is shit with only a few notable items here and there, but the Classics WORK! I'm getting what I was after with the MP-1 Classic, and discovering a lot of surprises with the MP-2 with this amp.
I'm sure there will be a fair number of snob guitar players who'll turn their noses up at these amps, but it's my rig, not theirs, and I don't give a flying f*ck through a rolling donut. Deal with it.
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Chamai,
What you just said is the same thing I used to hear from the sales clerks in the music shops in the 90's, "rack units are really out of style." I already posted my reply to that earlier.
As far as an amp head goes, ADA would have to get it right the first time, to break into the already saturated market for amplifiers, and they would have to make it affordable to be competitive in the market, and that may be the most difficult hurdle for them to jump over.
To target us here at the ADA Depot as the main source of marketing for either an amp head or a new rack preamp,(whatever it may be called), is very impractical from a business point of view because we are only a tiny percentage of guitar players in the world-wide market. Think about it.
Pedals are more affordable and accessible to the world market of guitar players at the moment, and the pedals they currently offer, are aimed at the fly-rig market, to eliminate the need for bulky amplifiers. That's not hard to see.
If they did come out with a new rack mounted preamp, sure, I'd be very interested in auditioning it, and if it gives me the usable tones that I would expect from ADA, I'd more than likely buy it. That doesn't mean that everyone else in the guitar world would do the same thing. With either an amp head or a rack mounted preamp, that's where the big gamble for ADA would be in the present market situation.
i agree with you. i strongly feel what ADA needs is that "one" product that can put them back in the game. all depends on how much ADA wants to dump on marketing. ADA needs to get some pro's using their stuff.
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i agree with you. i strongly feel what ADA needs is that "one" product that can put them back in the game. all depends on how much ADA wants to dump on marketing. ADA needs to get some pro's using their stuff.
That's true...getting some artists who are currently in the limelight to use their equipment WOULD go a long way in promoting sales for them. That's always been true for a long time because people want to emulate their heroes.
In the mid-60's, Fender was considering dropping the Stratocaster from their catalog because it wasn't selling as well as the Jaguars and Musicmasters. Then Jimi Hendrix came along and did his thing, and sales skyrocketed. Fender went along for the ride.
I'm pretty certain it's been a tough battle for ADA to come back after all this time, and to stay in business, so I imagine funding for advertising is limited. Even if we didn't like pedals so much, we could support ADA by buying what they are offering. The nearest distributor to me is 70 miles away from where I live, so I'd have to go there to audition the APP-1 and MP-1 Channel.
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Think you nailed it Harely.
The nearest distributor to me is in another country!
If I was ADA I'd be making a new MP1 in a rack, and spamming the metal bands telling them it's a marshall in a box and based on the legendary MP1 that has appeared on albums such as...............................
And milking that market, then using that energy to branch into new areas with power amps speaker sims etc
I got hold of the MP1 cause I was looking for something iconic to the era most of my music is from, I know the kids that watch my band are into the same music so they'd buy into a product that was famous for being part of the scene they enjoy so much.
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too bad music these days don't require much guitar nor any instruments...
most people i know don't really know wtf a pre amp really is. they know what a head is. but have no idea what a power section or the pre amp section actually does.
if ADA can include some education info in their marketing, that would help.
" plug our MP3 into your FX return" !! Most guys don't really power amps anymore. I once walked into a store and ask if they have any used power amps, the sales guy told me all their bass heads are int he bass department. please add the instrument/line switch. tons of people will plug the MP3 infront of their amp.
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too bad music these days don't require much guitar nor any instruments...
most people i know don't really know wtf a pre amp really is. they know what a head is. but have no idea what a power section or the pre amp section actually does.
if ADA can include some education info in their marketing, that would help.
" plug our MP3 into your FX return" !! Most guys don't really power amps anymore. I once walked into a store and ask if they have any used power amps, the sales guy told me all their bass heads are int he bass department. please add the instrument/line switch. tons of people will plug the MP3 infront of their amp.
Hey man I totally know what you mean.........................for example a DJ these day's is a guy with a laptop and a play list. No turntables, nothing! Not that I give a f*ck about DJ's but it's a sign of the times.
As for people knowing about preamps..................or poweramps, most guitarists I encounter no nothing about equipment. You could argue that perhaps they are better players than me so they don't need to know, but I think it's weird they haven't a basic understanding of their equipment. I was on tour with a swedish band a few years ago and their guitarists where great, better than me? Well may be, or at least I was on par with them, certainly one of them anyways, well I started talking to them about gear and they were like "I don't really like talking about equipment, I just like to play". It almost sounded like they were trying to make me look bad for not talking about playing but instead I was talking gear.
Anyways they didn't realise their heads are made up of a preamp and a power amp. Most players I encounter are like this, and they are the sort who use guitar cables to run from their amp to speaker cab! And don't know what a speaker cable is :facepalm:
I kinda like knowing about gear myself as I like to know how to utilize my aresenal to the best I can to get what I want. That's just me though. I also like to mod or repair as much as I can myself, it's another level of involvement with your gear.
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too bad music these days don't require much guitar nor any instruments...
most people i know don't really know wtf a pre amp really is. they know what a head is. but have no idea what a power section or the pre amp section actually does.
if ADA can include some education info in their marketing, that would help.
" plug our MP3 into your FX return" !! Most guys don't really power amps anymore. I once walked into a store and ask if they have any used power amps, the sales guy told me all their bass heads are int he bass department. please add the instrument/line switch. tons of people will plug the MP3 infront of their amp.
Hey man I totally know what you mean.........................for example a DJ these day's is a guy with a laptop and a play list. No turntables, nothing! Not that I give a f*ck about DJ's but it's a sign of the times.
As for people knowing about preamps..................or poweramps, most guitarists I encounter no nothing about equipment. You could argue that perhaps they are better players than me so they don't need to know, but I think it's weird they haven't a basic understanding of their equipment. I was on tour with a swedish band a few years ago and their guitarists where great, better than me? Well may be, or at least I was on par with them, certainly one of them anyways, well I started talking to them about gear and they were like "I don't really like talking about equipment, I just like to play". It almost sounded like they were trying to make me look bad for not talking about playing but instead I was talking gear.
Anyways they didn't realise their heads are made up of a preamp and a power amp. Most players I encounter are like this, and they are the sort who use guitar cables to run from their amp to speaker cab! And don't know what a speaker cable is :facepalm:
I kinda like knowing about gear myself as I like to know how to utilize my aresenal to the best I can to get what I want. That's just me though. I also like to mod or repair as much as I can myself, it's another level of involvement with your gear.
You can thank the Karaoke concept for the rise in popularity of DJ's, coupled with the fact that club owners only have to pay one guy, as opposed to paying a band.
Bar owners who do have bands come in to their clubs around my part of the world, usually demand the band bring in their following. That's fine for established bands that have a following, but newer bands, have yet to establish that so they don't last long, and they dissolve. When the established bands break up and dissolve, then there are no more live acts happening. That's pretty much where the local scene is at here. DJ's, and Karaoke nights. whoopee.
@ Gerry,
I totally understand the guys you are talking about, and these are the ones I referred to in earlier posts. They don't know their gear, and don't want to know. They just feel that all they should know is how to plug in and play. These are the people who the stomp box market is aimed at, but even that might be too complicated for them.
They weren't really trying to make you feel bad because you were talking about gear Gerry, they just started feeling their own ignorance because they couldn't keep up with that topic. You were actually making them realize their own stupidity, and from this feeling is where they become critical of other guitar players who do know their gear. When I encounter these types, I usually bring up names like Steve Vai, or John Petrucci, and their rigs, and listen to what they have to say about it. It's usually very negative and long-winded about all the complicated rigs these guys use. When they finish dissing Steve and John, I usually end up with a comment like; "I guess that explains why their paychecks are bigger than yours." That pisses these guys off even more! :lol:
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They weren't really trying to make you feel bad because you were talking about gear Gerry, they just started feeling their own ignorance because they couldn't keep up with that topic.
Hahaha I never looked it that way, I always felt that perhaps then they thought I was boring because I can ramble on about shit. However I switch of too if people start talking to me about stuff I'm not interested in. And I'd say nearly 100% of the gear I see other bands/people using live doesn't interest me.
It's all Mesa Boogie and Engl and Marshall 2000 era heads.
The one and only time I remember someone using something that I took note off was when I was playing in Cork, south of Ireland and a nice guy in one of the bands was using a Boss GT5, same as what I have and also using a Westone Spectrum guitar. I started speaking to him about the guitar and he had no idea about it being a kinda well thought of axe, since it's matsumoku made Westone from Japan. He was like "oh I see, I just picked that up secind hand of someone for cheap, didn't know it was supposed to be a good axe, I just thought it was cheapo axe".
I was somewhat taken back that he didn't realise he had quite a collectible in his hands. It was also in bad shape.
You were actually making them realize their own stupidity, and from this feeling is where they become critical of other guitar players who do know their gear. When I encounter these types, I usually bring up names like Steve Vai, or John Petrucci, and their rigs, and listen to what they have to say about it. It's usually very negative and long-winded about all the complicated rigs these guys use. When they finish dissing Steve and John, I usually end up with a comment like; "I guess that explains why their paychecks are bigger than yours." That pisses these guys off even more! :lol:
ahahah great comeback. I find no one has the interest in gear that I have hence being part of this forum. And I'm regularly having to stop talking about it to guy's at gigs because they do seem to get uncomfortable, but I honestly put that down to boredom. Same about recording as well. I'll strike up a conversation about how someone did their drums and it ends with "we did it with triggers" or "oh paid some guy to do this.............".
My own band have no clue about gear for example. I have to set the bassist sound up!! And I struggle weekly with it if I am honest. Not a fan of his bass or his amps EQ. Good amp but the controls are shocking on the eq section, if it had a slider EQ live would be easier.
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Gerry,
Really the only people you can talk about gear with are other guitar players who are actually interested in getting the best possible sound they can. You can usually tell who they are because they will come up to you when you are on a break and ask you how you are getting a certain sound, or how you have some specific piece of equipment hooked up in your rig. Then they will usually want to take a closer look.
What kind of amp does your bassist use? I already know he has a Rick bass. (I'm not a big fan of those)
I have a tendency to make some of the local guitar players feel stupid when I answer their questions about how I use certain gear in my racks. Not that I do it intentionally, but the answers probably raise more questions in their minds, and they are just too proud to ask, because then, it'll be obvious that they don't have a clue.
I'm not interested in any of those amps either, or I would already have them, but that kind of "Simple Simon" set up doesn't really interest me anymore. Once I went to rack, there was no turning back. I mean I could use a pedal rig, but my rack would not be far away.
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I'm not interested in any of those amps either, or I would already have them, but that kind of "Simple Simon" set up doesn't really interest me anymore. Once I went to rack, there was no turning back.
Amen to that brother.
Maybe I am just getting old but it seems to me most of these younger (millenials) guitar players want the simplest setup, they are happy with a meh guitar tone. I had one ask me about my rig and how a get that tone. His response was "well that's too intricate for me". Are you serious dude?!! So I ended up telling him that's why my tone is at the next level and you continue to sound like a junior high school garage band. :lol:
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Exactly Soloist!
When they grow up, they will either want to find out how to get a better tone from their guitar, or they'll quit playing altogether.
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But aren't we being snobs guy's?
Some of those guy's can really play. May be I should learn a bit more rather than f**king about with controls?
hahaha I enjoy a good "tweak" :o
And yes I encounter the kids and come up and ask me what I'm using which always feels nice. It's a shame most gigs I play out of my home city I have to use what ever random cab that is supplied. Now that's ok most of the time but doesn't really represent me to the fullest. One venue I play in Dublin has nice Orange cabs, I dunno what the are loaded with but I always like the sound of my shit through those. The sound man down there is eccentric as anything though, really fussy!! He's Belgian! And he is hard to understand. Funny when I met MJMP I had trouble at all understanding his accent. And a good meeting that was as well :thumb-up:
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Being snobs..... I would say no. If they have the talent and the chops but sound like :poop: than what's the point? Why even bother to play? They don't want to learn about
their equipment to take it to the next level. Just want to plateau.
These are some of the same people who scoop all the mids out and wonder why they get washed out in the mix. Duh! But they think they know it all, and when you explain or suggest to bump up their mids they don't want to hear it. That's fine, cause I'll be the one blowing them off the stage :headbanger:
Sorry if it sounds snobbish, I just have no patients for half-ass guitars. I poured my whole life into music and take pride in what I do. Some of those youngins probably do play better than me. But you wouldn't know it cause they have worst tone and sound like $hit. My niece is 10, learning guitar for about a year now. On my rig she sounds alot better than she is. I always want to sound better. Don't you?
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I was only sayin man :dunno:
I happen to hate pretty much all modern heavy guitar tone :lol: and I know I'm a snob about it, but then I dunno if what I like is what anyone else likes. I always get told my guitar is really clear at gigs, but I always think they're saying to me I don't have enough distortion or something. It's bizarre.
I can't say my tone is amazing, but I know I like it so it pleases me. It happens to have quite a bit of mid range and always has. I'm still perfecting it as we always are. Always working on guitars to get the best out of them. I have quite a few and haven't made them all great yet, but I'm working on it.
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Hey Gerry,
Your tone is very reminiscent of Glen Tipton/K.K. Downing's guitar tone on the classic Priest albums. It's a "Classic" guitar tone by today's standards. Modern guitar tones are so saturated with thick distortion, and EQ'ed like Soloist says, all highs and lows with the mids cut out of it. This is why in a studio, the engineers will pull these guys back, so that kind of tone will sit better in a mix, and that's usually where the arguments start :lol:
What's all this banter about newer guitar players being better than older ones? We're talking about Art here, not an athletic competition. In terms of technical proficiency, there are always a percentage of players who are much more capable of that than others, but does that automatically imply that they are better? I don't believe so. When it comes to music, what really sells more, the song with a simple catchy hook, or the one with 50 Bazillion notes from start to finish? That's a no-brainer.
Playing a guitar, or any instrument for that matter if you are an artist, is merely an extension of our physical senses. It's the way we express ourselves and tell a story, or emulate an experience in our past. That's what makes us all different. So does that mean anyone is better than anyone else? Nope. It means we are all UNIQUE. That's a good thing. Otherwise we would all be playing the same thing, and that's boring.
Edit: Gerry, I'm not sure of this but if the Orange cabs you play through in Dublin are their traditional ones, (i.e. the larger orange tolex 4x12's), then I'd be willing to wager they are loaded with the Vintage 30 Celestion's. Those are the most popular choice when it comes to classic guitar tones.
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@Harley,
well that's a compliment if there ever was one :thumb-up:
I personally wouldn't mind a little scoop a for certain sounds that I feel have a more of a thrash style to them but it's hard to balance this out for the rest of the non scooped sounds. Well actually not so much the guitar, it just means if I change, then the bassist has to change other wise the EQ is all out of balance. Now when I say scoop. I mean subtle. But I haven't tried this in a few years, it's just all mids.
Those orange cabs where I think the smaller ones, I don't recall wheels unless these where taken off. It's kind like house backline those cabs. I think the bass couples very well with the stage and surroundings in that venue. Generally though it's f**king feedback fest probably with all the sound bouncing around! I have half my cabs filled with vintage 30's and half filled with Eminence cv-75's. There is a lot more mids I feel from the eminence which are meant to sound like broken in vintage 30's. Scored some celestion g12t-75 brna dnew for real cheap recently, thinking of loading a marshall 4x12" with half those and half something else.
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Hey RG, not to piss in your pocket too much but I like you guitar sound :thumb-up:
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Gerry,
If they were the smaller 4x12 cabs, then those are the Crush Pro 4x12's and they are loaded with Orange's "Voice of the World" speakers. I haven't had a chance to audition those yet, but now you have me curious.
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Gerry,
If they were the smaller 4x12 cabs, then those are the Crush Pro 4x12's and they are loaded with Orange's "Voice of the World" speakers. I haven't had a chance to audition those yet, but now you have me curious.
You're right Harley, it's those cabs because their are always two little Orange Crush amps supplied as well......which I always set to the side hahahahaha. Someone told me they are ok though but I couldn't be bothered trying one of them.
I like the cabs though, I thought they were nice. I wouldn't turn my nose up at one if it landed at my doorstep.
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I remember trying an Orange Crush combo about 12 years ago, it was alright but not my kind of sound. If I were to ever get into 4x12 cabs, I'd probably go with the larger one with Vintage 30's, but I doubt that I will ever so that. The Split-Stack cabs are so much easier to transport.
Now that I've got the Peavey poweramps in the rigs, I may swap out the current Celestions for vintage 30's though. Those are probably the only ones I like from Celestion.