ADA Depot - A Forum To Support Users of ADA Amplification Gear
Miscellaneous => Discussions => Topic started by: rabidgerry on July 19, 2016, 04:09:00 AM
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Ok my main question here for all to discuss is, if you run a stereo rig live, how do you arrange your speakers?
I personally have one cab each side of the stage when playing actual shows. However in my rehearsal room, I have toyed about with several positions and to date I am not happy with any so far and seem to always be trying to fix the sound.
Currently I have my 4 x 2x12" cabs quite close to one another (2 stacked together either side). My main complain is, I only ever hear one side. And I think I'm suffering some kind of phase cancelation or something like this. If I stand smack bang in the middle I get a shit dead zone! Which is usually weak sounding. I have to stand at either left or right side to get a decent thick sound. So this means if I move about the sound is dropping in and out and it's pretty dam annoying.
Any ideas people?
I must ad what effects I use. I generally use a stereo doubling effect using a stereo chorus on my FX unit. Then I have other patches that have a more regular stereo Chorus sound. To explain this a little better, when I use the other Stereo Chorus as a "doubling" effect it's not meant to sound so much like there is Chorus on, it's just meant to seperate the signals from each other and give a nice stereo sound. The other more chorus esque settings are meant to actually have the "Chorus" vibe to them. I also use stereo delay in some solos that pans left and right and also the subtle reverbs that are stereo too.
So yeah what's with this dead middle zone? It's pissing me off? I have to stand one side of my rig and this is dumb in my opinion. I don't remember having this issue back in the early days of running a stereo setup. Is this an issue with my speakers? I'm using two different types?
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If you have the problem as described with dead zon in the middle, left an right are indeed phase reversed, which could simply be incorrect wiring.
I've been at very few concerts having correctly defined stereo, and I'll leave it an open question if this is even possible on a majority of venues.
My take is that it may have more value going for a good ambient sound scape.
As such, I would suggest you simply try routing one channel to a center setup, in this case two of your 2x12 boxes, and route the other channel to left and right into one 2x12 at each side.
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My cabs are on both sides of the drum kit. Im typically over on one side since my band is a trio, but I don't need to hear the actual stereo effect when we play live; it's there for the audience.
But yeah, definitely sounds like phase issue with how something is wired.
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RG, do you have your effects panned hard right and hard left? Some effects units will give you a dead zone panned that way. You can try panning 75% right and left leaving 25% up the middle. That might give you a fuller, wider sound. If that doesn't work then I agree with van, check your wiring in your cabs.
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As such, I would suggest you simply try routing one channel to a center setup, in this case two of your 2x12 boxes, and route the other channel to left and right into one 2x12 at each side.
This wouldn't be practical for me really. I was looking at this today however but not for and not possible with the gear I own currently.
As for true stereo live argument, I definitely think I can hear a nice stereo sound of my rig at MOST venues I play at. Some are two small or something or the sound man is lying and it's not an actual Stereo setup with the PA (yes still some in mono I find).
My cabs are on both sides of the drum kit. Im typically over on one side since my band is a trio, but I don't need to hear the actual stereo effect when we play live; it's there for the audience.
But yeah, definitely sounds like phase issue with how something is wired.
That's the same as me when playing live, and my band is a trio also and the stereo is mainly for the audience I guess too, as I just get a mono mix back in my monitors usually.
RG, do you have your effects panned hard right and hard left? Some effects units will give you a dead zone panned that way. You can try panning 75% right and left leaving 25% up the middle. That might give you a fuller, wider sound. If that doesn't work then I agree with van, check your wiring in your cabs.
Ok this might make sense about your dead zone theory. I have no control over the panning of my effects. I just know that when I use the left and right output and use stereo effects and of course goes through my stereo poweramp it comes out in stereo.
I achieve stereo by using the stereo chorus. I can also through some jiggery pokery add a delay like 10ms or what ever I choose to one side and achieve stereo using the Haas effect (you know like double tracking).
Before I started doing this, I had another delay unit that I fed the right output of my FX unit to. I stuck on a little delay then basically one side. I dropped this though since I could manage the same thing using the FX unit either via stereo delay or stereo chorus.
As for the wiring, I wired the speakers myself, however may be they aren't in phase with other two cabs that I did not wire myself and are effectively still stock???? This is possibility but I dunno why they would be wired differently from the eminence speakers I wired myself?
A sound guy said to me one time he thought my rig was out of phase at a gig. I couldn't understand that though because I use the exact same FX unit with same FX in the studio and when recorded it's in perfect stereo. So the only different with the live set up is cabs. And on this particular instance when the sound guy said one side is out of phase with the other I wasn't even using my own cabs, I was using the cabs he supplied for the venue. So go figure all that crazy stuff out! :dunno:
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Check your speaker cables and check if they are correctly connected.Also check the cabs just to make sure.Easiest way is to take a 9V battery and put the the tip of the jack (cable) to the + and the sleve to -,now you should see the woofer go to the front,if it goes to the back it's connection is reversed.
Another possibility is that the haas effect you're using is creating too much phase shift on some freq's.
Another thing is ,sound alters depending on where you stand.If you stand in front of the cabs you will hear more highs,if you stant next to the cab you will hear more bass.
And then there are the reflections which can also create phase shifts which can alter your sound.
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Dammit, MJMP beat me to the reflection theory. I was going to say different rooms behave different ways too. Reflections, dead spots, whatever.
BUT...9v battery on the speaker wires?!?!? SORCERY! :crazy: I love it!!
FWIW: I set my cabs on top of each other at home and simply twist one to the right and one to the left. Stereo! Live, I only get one cab mic'd, so it's just mono to the house PA. I do have one speaker on each side of the stage for anyone that gets in front of the stage (on the dance floor) behind the projection of the mains (which are usually on the front corners of the stage).
Side story, totally off topic: I tried leaving my cabs at home and running direct with my rack. While it sounded fine in the headphones, the sound man quickly complained about no stage sound. He hooked up a powered monitor on the stage to pump my guitar out...it sounded tinny - like a ss amp. From that point on, I brought the cabs.
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Check your speaker cables and check if they are correctly connected.Also check the cabs just to make sure.Easiest way is to take a 9V battery and put the the tip of the jack (cable) to the + and the sleve to -,now you should see the woofer go to the front,if it goes to the back it's connection is reversed.
I was thinking this myself, you forgot to ad that I needed to check that all the speakers were moving the same direction so as to make sure they are all in phase with each other :thumb-up:
Ok two of the 2x12" are wired correctly, I know this because they have never been altered since I bought them new.
So this leaves the speakers I wired myself in the other 2 cabs. I'm pretty sure these are fine but I'll check them. Funny I never thought to check them using the cable, I've only ever done the battery test using the actual speaker terminals. Using the cable might be easier. I'll give it a go.
Another possibility is that the haas effect you're using is creating too much phase shift on some freq's.
Well the effect I am using isn't actually called Haas effect, it's just thats the name of the effect you create when you delay one side, I spoke about this before when El was talking about using delay on one side of a dual mono signal to create stereo or a stereo effect.
https://mixcoach.com/creating-depth-the-haas-effect-2/ (https://mixcoach.com/creating-depth-the-haas-effect-2/)
and some more
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Precedence_effect (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Precedence_effect)
Another thing is ,sound alters depending on where you stand.If you stand in front of the cabs you will hear more highs,if you stant next to the cab you will hear more bass.
Yes of course, just like mic placement, but to me when I move around and have a dead zone right in the middle it seems not natural or too extreme. Basically my cabs together should sound better than I think they do at the moment. Things should sound bigger than they are currently
I discussed reducing speaker directivity in another thread on here using special filters. I never used the filters even though I did make them, but I will get round to trying them.
And then there are the reflections which can also create phase shifts which can alter your sound.
True, but wtf! Tell them to stop their phaseyness! How do I stop these f**king things?
Side story, totally off topic: I tried leaving my cabs at home and running direct with my rack. While it sounded fine in the headphones, the sound man quickly complained about no stage sound. He hooked up a powered monitor on the stage to pump my guitar out...it sounded tinny - like a ss amp. From that point on, I brought the cabs.
To me, it sounds like you did not use any form of speaker or cab simulation, therefore shit unbareable harsh hi end sound. Had you used this it would not have sounded "tinny". Even a basic cab sim will help with this. I am pretty sure I could take my studio rig to stage no problem and get great results and no tinny sound, but it's all down to the speaker sim I would be using in place of real cabs. Spoke about this on another thread also.
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No I didn't forget, like I said,+ to the tip - to the sleeve should push the woofer forward. It's the same for every speaker. And to make sure I would check them all just to be sure.You never know they were wired wrong at the factory.
Yes but you use a delay between the left and right correct? If so the delay will always create a frequency depending phase shift.
Reflections are hard to get rid of, why do you think recording studio's spend so much money on room treatment.
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Hey RG, definitely sounds like phase cancellation. I've seen some factory wired cabs reversed (hot to -ve) so obviously worth checking. The perplexing comment you made though is that with the supplied cabs at the gig it sounded OoP. So unless there were issues with those cab (and issues with you cabs), then what is it ?. So start with all FX off (double delay etc) and just bring up the sound (I'm assuming here you didn't find an issue with your cab wiring) piece by piece.
If I'm being miced up (and there's room) I run my cabs on the side of the stage angled mostly cross stage, a little toward the front, so everyone in the band can hear it and it stays out of the FOH mix (except for the mics). Something you might try, you should have at least the width of one cab gap in between the 2 sides (so it doesn't form an infinite baffle between left and right)
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Ok I'll check them all.
Not sure what you mean MJMP? I don't always use a delay, but when I do it's on one side, usually its the right. Sometimes I use the stereo chorus set in a certain way to achieve similar thing.
I don't know anything about how much they spend dampening studios walls with acoustic foam. That's not a number one priority for me when I go to my practice room so it's never entering my thoughts.
In all the rooms I played in before I have never had "reflection" issues. Perhaps the best sounding room was a garage full of stuff. I mean this place was tiny and filled with furniture and appliances.
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I don't think bands will invest a lot in room treatment, it's not a studio. Also this is quite a complicated matter to do yourself. So nobody bothers.
BTW what happends if you put all your cabs on one side,do you still have the "gap"?
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Side story, totally off topic: I tried leaving my cabs at home and running direct with my rack. While it sounded fine in the headphones, the sound man quickly complained about no stage sound. He hooked up a powered monitor on the stage to pump my guitar out...it sounded tinny - like a ss amp. From that point on, I brought the cabs.
To me, it sounds like you did not use any form of speaker or cab simulation, therefore shit unbareable harsh hi end sound. Had you used this it would not have sounded "tinny". Even a basic cab sim will help with this. I am pretty sure I could take my studio rig to stage no problem and get great results and no tinny sound, but it's all down to the speaker sim I would be using in place of real cabs. Spoke about this on another thread also.
I had the speaker sims in the preamp, but that monitor definitely had that tinny sound, like none were being used. I ended up turning the monitor towards the wall (at the back of the stage), cranking up the volume and reflecting it off the back wall. Never again, I bring the cabs
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I don't think bands will invest a lot in room treatment, it's not a studio. Also this is quite a complicated matter to do yourself. So nobody bothers.
BTW what happends if you put all your cabs on one side,do you still have the "gap"?
All the cabs are on one side. I haven't had a gap in a while. I got paranoid about making to big a gap between them. May be I need to make the gap bigger? This is why at the beginning of the thread I asked how people lay out their speakers when using a stereo setup.
I bothered in my room to some degree about dampening. I would like to dampen further. I made baffles using wooden pallet with foam shoved inside and carpet tiles over the wooden slats. I would like to dampen more but I cannot get the material to make huge kinda drapes. The ceiling needs something on it to but it's so f**king high and none of us have ladders to handle it. This would make our room even better to record in. I'm convinced cymbals turn out harsher than they should due to the ceiling reflections.
Dante, so you did have a cab sim on sorts involved. I still don't see how it would be tinny unless there was something wrong with the monitor. Usually my mix is awful in monitors, I'm just grateful if I can hear myself if I am totally honest, and if it's shit but I can still hear my over the drums and god dam singing I'm a happy camper. Very rarely do I ever get to enjoy a nice stage mix. And this for me has been the biggest challenge of being a live musician - never being able to hear yourself. 6/10 times I cannot hear myself well at a gig. I still have to play well or try to regardless and act as though I am comfortable even though I am not.
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Hey RG,
Richard brought up an interesting point which I'm curious about. Have you tried separating your cabs and turning up your amps to stage volume without any effects on to see if your have a dead spot in the center of your mix?
There are times when I separate my amps to either side of the stage, and I have no ill effects like that. Basically, both amps have the same sound and the only stereo image occurs when I use stereo based effects like Chorus and/or Ping-Pong delay. It sounds great on the stage, but unless the PA is a true stereo system, it won't really project that way to the people in the back of the room.
Harley 8)
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No I haven't had them seperated in a while. The last configuration I had them arranged in was to stop coupling which was giving me insane amounts of bass, I mean so much I could feel it in my intestines!!
So the way I moved them eliminated this. But then only a few weeks ago I moved them again closer together and stacking two 2x12" together. So this is where I am currently at two 2x12" stacked together left and right but with very little gap seperating both stacks.
I'll test the phase with all the cabs first then perhaps widen the stacks.
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When I use 2 split stacks I always have a gap at least as wide as one cab width if I can, but sharing stages and cabs etc, you do the best you can at the time (in what little time you have to setup :facepalm: ). I also like to use milk crates to get the off the stage/floor, this also aims the top speakers more at my ears, so I don't play too loud >:D (a trait of mine apparently LoL) or too toppy. These days I've been using the spare split stack which is wired stereo, so just one cab on a milk crate. It gets a bit flangy as there's no separation between the speakers as they are in the same cab.
@Dante, well all monitor wedges are not made equal LoL, and no doubt the singer gets the good ones. It also could have been either no eq or bad eq settings on that monitor send, and what amp was being used ? or was it a powered box ? The MP2 room eq knob helps for these situations, eg full counter clock (bassy) may have saved the day ?
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It was a powered monitor, cheap plastic housing, sounded crappy. Never again.
When I run in stereo for gigs, I typically tilt my 1x12 cabs back (leaning against the back wall or another amp) to point them at my head onstage. I also like to point them outwards or separate them a good amount. I never hear both speakers unless I go offstage into the crowd, which I do ;)
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When I use 2 split stacks I always have a gap at least as wide as one cab width if I can, but sharing stages and cabs etc, you do the best you can at the time (in what little time you have to setup :facepalm: ). I also like to use milk crates to get the off the stage/floor, this also aims the top speakers more at my ears, so I don't play too loud >:D (a trait of mine apparently LoL) or too toppy. These days I've been using the spare split stack which is wired stereo, so just one cab on a milk crate. It gets a bit flangy as there's no separation between the speakers as they are in the same cab.
Well the old saying goes you must be positioned equal to or greater than the distance between the left+right speakers in order to hear the stereo image correctly. So I should have mine further apart.
I too have three milk crates high for each stack. And I also adjust treble according to this position as you heap it on if your cab is on the floor and you happen to be of axis all the time. I plan on getting my stacks higher also by at least another crate each side. I find cabs at least ear level is the best way to hear yourself. If I can get a cab up high at a gig you bet your bottom dollar I will. It has saved my ass many a time with poor monitor mix at shows because I can hear my own amp nice and loud then right behind me.
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I always have my cabs sitting directly on the bass cabs, so there's a 4x10 bass cab and a 4x12 guitar cab on each side of the drum kit. And since I only use the top two speakers in my 4x12 cabs for the guitar anyway, those speakers are at the perfect ear level to me.
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You always put your cabs on bass cabs? What do you mean? Then you have another two cabs left and right of the drummer? So you play using three guitar cabs one in the centre and one on the left and right?
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I think Kim means they put the bass players cabs either side of the drums on the bottom and he puts his on top of them,
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Yep, His over-sized 2x12 cabs :lol:
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I think Kim means they put the bass players cabs either side of the drums on the bottom and he puts his on top of them,
Yes. Works very well, too. Actually the speakers aren't "quite" up at my ear level, but really about at my shoulder-level. Close enough. :)
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Well FRACK me Kim LoL :thumb-up: A new meaning to surround sound.
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Well FRACK me Kim LoL :thumb-up: A new meaning to surround sound.
LOL Well, I rebadged the cabs just for fun. One is "FRICK" and the other "FRACK".
While the bassist hasn't rebadged his cabs, we call them "BORIS" and "NATASHIA" :lol:
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Well FRACK me Kim LoL :thumb-up: A new meaning to surround sound.
LOL Well, I rebadged the cabs just for fun. One is "FRICK" and the other "FRACK".
While the bassist hasn't rebadged his cabs, we call them "BORIS" and "NATASHIA" :lol:
GREAT :lol:
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He needs some name plates :thumb-up: , (and from men in black 3, "it's just BORIS...")
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Hey Kim,any reason you call them Frick and Frack?
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Hey Kim,any reason you call them Frick and Frack?
Because Heckle and Jeckle didn't quite fit the bill?
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Hey Kim,any reason you call them Frick and Frack?
Because Heckle and Jeckle didn't quite fit the bill?
No reason other than that I thought it would be funny. :)
I actually did come up with Heckle and Jeckle, amongst a bunch of others too....but kept coming back to Frick and Frack.
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Amazing :lol:
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I arranged our gear last saturday into this formation (see pic) I will have to see how this will sound. I took the photo from the position of the drums.
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Hey RG, Should sound great from where you took the shot >:D
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Richard, do you think standing beside the dreaded drummer and all his cymbals then would be a good spot for me and the bassist to stand?
I know before this has even been tested that he's going to say he cannot hear himself!
If that's the case should he move into the bass amp a bit and let me stand close to the drums?
Also he is the lead vocalist, any tips are greatly appreciated. Bound to be better than before. It was very separated before so we could all hear but not as a mix as such. You could move around the room and only hear vocals, or bass or guitar.
Best sound in a room I ever had was when we played in the garage way back like 15years ago. I think it's because we were all standing very close.
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Hey RG, I was basing it on where the speakers (yours and the bass) would open up nicely, though I take you poit re the cymbals, those things are so loud.
2 quick thoughts where to stand (bit hard to tell without being there..), if you put the vocal (PA) boxes on either side of the bass rig and face them (and your rigs), if there's room ??, this might work better with your cabs back a bit in line(ish) with the bass rig (kind of slightly curved wall of cabs). Or the opposite, put the PA boxes either side/behind the drums and face the kit with your rigs behind you (I'm assuming the PA is powered boxes on stands ?). As you say, it's important to get a good mix as everyone will play better and enjoy it more.
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Richard,
It's always been my experience that the farther back you move the PA cabs, the more microphonic feedback you get from your mics. The only way I was ever able to rehearse with PA cabs behind the band, was to face them away from the band, and bounce the sound off the walls. It was the vocal reflections we could hear during rehearsals.
Harley 8)
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Hey Harley, depends on so many things, most of the rehearsals I've done in recent years I set the PA up facing back at the band, drums in the corner (ish) and we fan out either side (kind of v curve) I also make sure all the mics have their backs to the PA speakers. I also make sure we all use 58's so no mixing and matching of different mic squeal points/freq, and I also use a dual 32 band graphic and run it in stereo. (Carvin 15/horn active boxes on stands). We have 2 behringer monitor wedges which I also set up, overkill >:D ), they have one side of a DBX dual 15 band and one of the 4 x 500w carvin poweramp channels (carefully though as the 2 monitors are only 175 each, so stacks of amp headroom). And I run an EV 3 way TL (15/horn/tweeter) off the other DBX 15 band channel, through another of the carvin channels, I pump kick snare and a mic on the small bass amp (30w rumble) through that and sit the cab under one of the PA box stands again facing back at us all., So all the PA stuff is in the opposite corner to the drums (but there's open corridor behind them). This is in the bush though (started as a shed, now it's a house) , we don't have to worry about volume.
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Hi Richard, we have two of these http://www.dv247.com/pa-systems-and-live-sound/behringer-eurolive-vp2520-passive-pa-speaker--84954 (http://www.dv247.com/pa-systems-and-live-sound/behringer-eurolive-vp2520-passive-pa-speaker--84954) powered by http://download.raffionline.de/downloads/peavery/PEAVEY%20CS%201200_oben.JPG (http://download.raffionline.de/downloads/peavery/PEAVEY%20CS%201200_oben.JPG)
They are currently at Either side of the drums but not facing us, one is more pointing toward the drummer and the other pointing towards where the bassist used to stand.
I'll draw a diagram and post it up.
Interesting about placing them at the sides of the bass rig. Might be an idea to try of the beside the drum position fails.
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Hey RG, they should sound pretty decent :thumb-up: . Nice power amp also but some more power wouldn't hurt to drive those cabs (they like 500w), I'm sure it's loud enough for the room though LoL
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I gotta chime in here with my experiences....especially recent ones.
Practicing in the ZZ Top band, we use the floor monitors for our PA. That works great. The drummer has his own monitor too.
1x12 cabs can be very 'beamy' - I mean, they can project in a straight line sometimes, without fanning out as much as an array of speakers. I too use 1x12 cabs and typically only hear one of them. Standing on the dance floor, much farther away, they sound wonderful and are in stereo, but you have to be in the center. A little to one side, you only hear that speaker.
Even with my speakers stacked and 'cocked' (the top speaker is rotated 45 degrees clockwise) to fan them out, the sound projects in two pronounced beams. They do cut through the mix really well, and they work great for using a mic on your cabs, but I have found them to be beamy, for lack of a better word.
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Agreed Dante,
It's tough to get a true stereo separation in a live mix without having a ton of PA gear to broadcast it that way. Even though my rigs are in stereo, and I even place my amps or cabs,(depending on the rig I use), on either side of the stage, I don't really hear the stereo separation on the stage as well as the drummer would. What I do hear is a more enriched sound from my guitar on the stage with a stereo rig as opposed to a tighter, more confined sound that is struggling to stay in the mix. The only place to get a true stereo sound would be on recordings. On a live stage, it's more important to just get a good mix with the whole band.
Harley 8)
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I'm not so worried about "true stereo" coming out the PA as I would be about the sound guy making sure they still mic both of my cabs regardless. Whether the PA is broadcasting mono or stereo, there's still separate signal information coming from both cabs that need to be picked up and PA'd.
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Well say we're not getting true stereo, at least 80% stereo.
I know when I'm using my Harmonizer I've got one voice coming out of one side and another voice coming out of another and then the direct sound I guess coming out of both which means it stays somewhat in the middle.
I play stereo because it definitely sounds bigger and more articulate when using stereo effects. Obviously there isn't much difference unless you have some kind of effect on, even a stereo reverb.
As for directional or beamy cabs. Look into the speaker directivity modifier.
I have made these but not implemented yet as I'm still messing about with speaker types looking for a good match.
see link
http://blog.thegearpage.net/?page_id=424 (http://blog.thegearpage.net/?page_id=424)
I want to implement these to deal with my 2 x 12" speaker directivity.
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I'm not so worried about "true stereo" coming out the PA as I would be about the sound guy making sure they still mic both of my cabs regardless. Whether the PA is broadcasting mono or stereo, there's still separate signal information coming from both cabs that need to be picked up and PA'd.
I couldn't agree more :thumb-up:
RG: I've seen those, but never tried one.
BTW: I just sold one of my 1x12 cabs to buy a 4x12 for outdoor shows. It's a H&K, and it's light (yay!). I'll start a thread about it soon
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RG posted quite a bit about these quite a while ago. IIRC it was pretty detailed and he let us know what worked and didn't as he experimented with them.
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Ok so tested the new room layout. It worked out well. As I thought the singer had some issues. I shall draw a diagram of the floor plan arrangement and let you see what it looks like now. Few tweeks here and there and I reckon it will be even better.
I noticed one thing, I was getting more feedback than normal. The chirpy annoying feedback. I dunno if I was playing sloppy or if my vocal mic was picking up my cabs and then coming out through the PA.
I'll let one of you answer that.
Edit: Ammended Diagram, tired my best from memory to get the angles right of the PA speakers (vox1 and vox 2) and the vocal mic.
(http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k114/themetalmartyr/Room%20Lay%20Out_1.jpg) (http://s86.photobucket.com/user/themetalmartyr/media/Room%20Lay%20Out_1.jpg.html)
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Hey RG, it could be vocal mic :dunno: and often is in small room situations (this is where (among other situations) shitloads of PA power amp headroom helps BTW). (chirpy sounds around 2.5k, 3k, 4k, if you can nip them back in the eq it may help)
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Yeah it's about that range RN. My cabs aren't actually mic'd but my vocal mic is right in front to of one of my stacks so this is probably picking up a bit of guitar I assume. And then that is coming out of the PA which is beside one of my stacks on the other side. Not sure if there is a feedback loop in there somewhere. Check the diagram Rn and see what you think. Pretend my vocal mic is right in front of Guitar Cab 1. Actually I'll ammend the diagram.
The room size is huge actually, but we only occupy half of it. So say we have a space 12m x 6m.
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Hey RG, did you post a diagram ? couldn't see one yet.
That's not a bad space, if you can get your hands on an old parachute or two they are good to hang from the roof to diffuse the top end a bit and help clean up reflections. To the extent you can, best your vocal mic isn't getting much guitar as it will add to the "confusion" (hard to now quite how to put it?? hopefully you get what I mean there :crazy: ). Also the guitar will drive those chirpy frequencies a bit and more of them means more chance of feedback.
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yeah I did post the diagram, it's the one with the mics on it, 4 posts up.
It's hard to show accurate space between the cabs and mics, the diagram isn't accurate to scale.
Think the feedback was just coming from my gear though and not out of the PA.