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[Dante]

Hi Guys,

I haven't been around hear nearly enough lately - truth is, I haven't been on my computer much lately.

I have been dealing with some forearm pain for years. I am convinced it stems from pushing a mouse around for so many years, because for most of this time, it's been isolated to my right forearm (my mousing hand). I started using a stylus and tablet instead of a mouse about 10 years ago and still use one to this day - it really helps.

Now, my left forearm started killing me when I type. Then it started hurting WHEN I PLAY GUITAR. No good 

I went to the doc yesterday about it, he says I do not have carpal tunnel syndrome (yay!). He diagnosed it as tennis elbow - in both elbows...I don't even play tennis. He asked me if I could play less guitar....my answer was an emphatic "that ain't gonna happen".

So, I'm going conservative with my treatment for now, because I don't want to go to the next step: Steroids. I'll be icing my forearms (like a pitcher does in baseball), taking ibuprofen to alleviate the inflammation, taking vitamin B-6 for some reason, and stretching. Oh yeah, I'm also using Icy/Hot which smells fantastic - chicks really dig that

[rnolan]

Hey Dante, bummer. I've been getting bad cramps in my right arm for a while now. Switched to left hand mousing, which helps. And also, as Mike is qualified massage therapist (good to have in your band BTW  ), I get a fortnightly massage from him which helps.

There's an Ayurveda Panchakarma treatment called Patra potali (heated cheesecloth bags filled with herbs, lemon slices and oil, rubbed on the area or pounded on the area to free it up). My sister gave me 45 min treatments over 3 days after xmas. The best relief I've has for ages. I can now hold chopsticks again without cramping. Now mine is largely coming from my right hip and shoulder. Anyway, check out your local Ayurveda Panchakarma options, there are licensed Maharishi Transcendental Meditation Ayurveda Panchakarma centers, but there are others as well, the Maharishi refined the treatments and brought them to the west. Depak Chopra used to be his right hand man until he deserted and moved to California to go commercial (he's an Ayurveda doctor). Check it out, It will help 
The other thing I use is a thing called Crampease (which would also help), has Rutin, Magnesium, B vitamins and homeopathic copper, it also helps allot (and isn't steroids!)

Fortuitously, playing guitar doesn't aggravate, and isn't hindered by my particular plight (few), but I understand the pain... I like you answer to the doctor, play less ? yeah good luck with that LoL

[rabidgerry]

Awww man!!  I know how it is.  I push a mouse around for a living also.  I use no fancy tools to help my situation but I sit in slighlty strange ways where I leava a lot on my elbows and have my arm for the mouse in such away that it's virtually free to move and there is no strain being put on it (you'd need to see what I mean to understand).  I also make sure my height of the chair is in such a away that it will not annoy my arm and wrist at what ever angle it is that causes me issues. 

I had pains before I worked in IT in my right forearm.  It did not affect my playing but it was sore and also in my wrist and no doubt it would have started to affect me had I not done something about it.  First I went to physio, she said it was trapped nerves and she treated me for a few months.  I think it helped a little but basically I was told to perform stretches and shit myself at home to maintain the problem myself.  So I did and hurt myself a few times doing the stretches.  So anyways I don't get anytrouble really anymore, occasionally I do but not much.  What I helped more than anything in my opinion was exercise and weight training.  I have a pull up bar and I started working out a few years ago.  I feel the pull up bar stretched everything out inside my arm and kept it this way.  I also believe doin certain weight lifts helped build strength also.  Now I'm not talking about arnold schwarzenegger I'm just talking about weight training but at a more manageable level.  I really believe it helped me.  I will say since my forearm wrist problem it has never been the same, but it is no holding me back with anything.  It just does not feel the way it used to if that makes sense.  Feels like something inside moved somewhere and now that's where it is and I just have to deal with it, however the exercise and strength stuff has kinda bolstered it.  Hard to explain ut hopefully something I've said might provide some help for you.  I believe Richard has given you good advice and tips also.  But do think about some wide grip pull ups man and some pressup and may be a wrist strengthening device like a Power ball (really hard to use one of them though.)

[Soloist]

Hey Dante, I have "tennis elbow" but mine actually only hurts in the elbow the forearm sometimes gets tight but generally feels ok. The strumming motion aggravates it so does high humidity or damp cold temps. I pretty much don't play acoustically anymore because of it. I have a brace like wrap for it I wear when not playing. It seems to help some but I know what you mean by it hurts. Getting old sucks!

[Dante]

Richard,

I like what you're suggesting, thank you. I will definitely look into that.

FYI: A long time ago, I was in a car accident (rear-ended by a COP! - haha  ) and I went to a chiropractor...but not the normal kind. I went to a Chinese healing center, where this little lady used to manhandle me for a half hour and I'd leave feeling like a limp noodle (in a good way). Many older Chinese people came in while I was waiting for my appointments. They would purchase a paper bag full of god-knows-what (herbs of some kind) and go on their way. I have to wonder if they were buying tiger lips or whatever.

I'm the type of guy that goes to the sushi restaurant where there's a whole Japanese family eating dinner, so this place was right up my alley

Your mid-Eastern remedies are exactly what I want to look into, thanks man

[MikeB]

Yep. getting old sucks.  But, it is better than the alternative.

Gerry, I'm glad your physio told you to shit yourself at home. It would be really embarrassing if you had to do it in public! 

[MarshallJMP]

Getting old sucks!

Yes it does !!!

[rabidgerry]

@ MikeB, I always shit myself at home..............but on the toilet?  Where do you shit?     Richards toilet?

Hey I'm all for medicinal remedies but honest to goodness exercise can help to Dante, if guitarists are athletes but with their hands then why not do what athletes do when they get injured eh, physiotherapy?  That is how I look at it anyways.

I suffer from a circulation problem called Raynaud's Syndrome.  Try having that and living in a cold country, and practicing in a room with no heating or insulation, it's tough.  We have like 3months of the year where it's warm, the rest of the time cold rainey windy and shit.  The slightest cold breeze is enough to trigger a Raynaud's attack, for the guitarist, this is hell.  Playing with no feeling in your finger tips is pretty f*ckin bad.  Just so happens I'm that used to it 

[Dante]

You are absolutely correct, Gerry

When I went to the doc, I was expecting some kind of arthroscopic surgery option. I looked at him a bit cross when he started saying 'do this exercise, use ibuprofen, ice them down, and use ben gay' but, it really is helping already. I'm doing my stretches (very strange forearm stretching) and taking ibuprofen before work. I'll try icing when I get home tonight, but it's COLD outside (says the guy in California that can't stand it below 40°F) haha

[rabidgerry]

Totally man, definitely keep that going, we are like athletes for sure, when I saw that Physio that time, I said to her "why has this happened I've not injured myself or fallen or anything like that"

she said

"You've heard of Tennis elbow right?  Well that is something they just get, and violinists get similar conditions from holding their head in awkward positions for long periods of time".

So we are susceptible to stupid pains and conditions like this.

Hear is a question, do you sling your guitar low down?  Or high up?  Or middle?

I personally have mine very high up.  I believe I'd give myself some kind of condition if I tried slinging it too low.  If I am honest, I cannot play the f**king guitar any lower so that's never going to happen lol  I realised why this is, it's not because of my arms being short, it's my short ass finger!!!  Guy's with long fingers can hold it their axe lower as their long fingers can wrap around the neck.  I cannot do this, so if the guitar is high up I can arch my whole hand around he neck to get access.  Crazy how all this stuff can be relative.

40degrees!  Jeez you'r so lucky.  Actually winter over here at the moment is not as cold as it should be, no ice or anything.  But it has been windy and rainey.  We've had a few storms move in from the atlantic over the last 3 months.  I'd prefer snow to be honest.

[Dante]

I wear my guitar on my thigh, it's slung low. Kinda got that from the late 70s Punk movement. Some of those 70s guitar icons (Joe Perry) didn't help. I have very long arms, we need a monkey smiley

[Soloist]

I could never play with it slung low.(guess my arms ain't long enough) and up high I feel cramped and restricted.(not to mention you cant do a good guitar flip with it up high) Middle is the only way to go for me

[Kim]

Hope that gets better, Dante. 

A few years ago I slipped and fell on some ice pretty hard.  The natural instincts to put your hands out to catch yourself when you go to the ground can cause a certain type of wrist fracture which I'm pretty sure I had happen.  It didn't hurt that day for some reason, but for a few months after I sure felt it....I couldn't even open a door with my left hand or do pushups but I could still play guitar since it seemed that only pulling motions and bending my wrist back hurt the worst.  It's all good now, but since then once in awhile I would aggravate it just a bit, just enough to remind me about it but not bad enough to worry.   

[tomy]

Hi guys! i don't know if some of you have a rude job, but that's my case ; i'm tiler. This job wrecks your back, your hands, your knees... it wrecks your whole person  in fact ! scares, cuts, pain ... carpal tunnel, whatever ...i have to deal with cold water, heavy stuff, dust, contact with cement. With time going by I've learnt saving miself as much as i can , wearing gloves, and each time it is needed go to chiropractor( ::make sense).

Being two guys is really important : My guitar player uses to move his rig alone because he doesn't want to ask for help... actually he is Young, but like you said, guys ! "getting older sucks"

Well Dante, have good rest for your arm !

[rabidgerry]

Well good for you man.  But unless you've had carpel tunnel I wouldn't mock it.  It f**king hurts and you might think it's a p**sy boy illness but if it stops you from playing guitar then it's serious in my book.  Anyways he don't have carpel tunnel he has tennis elbow.  Not sure which is worse, probably tennis elbow.  Dante has been playing to much f**king tennis  joke!

Like you I have to look after myself as well because if I punch too many people in the face I wont be able to play guitar now will I  ?  Gigs are the worst.  I have no road crew so carrying heavy shit up and down stairs all before you set up and before you are supposed to play and put on an energetic performance is not the best situation. You can end up exhausted before you eve do a sound check.  Same for a singer.  He is meant to preserve his voice before a show but he can't not talk to anyone, but that's some of the stuff you have to deal with in a band.

It took me to tour the UK before I realised playing night after night carrying your own gear about really fatigues you..................which is why big bands through the years have had so many issues wit drugs.  Drugs can get you through when you are exhausted.  Thankfully peanut butter and brown bread got me through