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Miscellaneous => Rants & Raves => Topic started by: rabidgerry on September 18, 2018, 02:05:02 PM
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Some of you may or may not know recently I was unable to play a few shows with my band due the fact I accepted a new job through the year which lead to me not having as much time off as I had in my old job. Anyways, it was a big deal to accept the job for me, as jobs pay, being in bands do not. So it was my decision to suggest to the guys in my band that we try get a stand in guitarist for those dates I could not play. I thought that was the right thing to do to keep momentum going with all the touring we have done recently.
Anyways so we pick a guy to stand in, who we know as he used to be in a few bands locally and who we think is a good guy and we know seems to like us (as he bought our album and has come to our shows). I take the time to train him up at rehearsals and he also works on stuff at home listening to our album. Everything seems cool. He seems to have a good enough grasp on the songs. Then comes the shows. He play's three shows and also does the last rehearsal before these shows without me to see how he fairs playing with the rest of the band in my absence. I'm all for the guys having great shows, I wish them luck. Then the short run of gigs comes to and end, and some video footage emerges.
What do I see?
The guy totally outplaying me any opportunity he got, embellishing every solo to the max, and changing how lots of the main parts of the music are played.
Needless to say I'm furious, and feel the guy deliberately has done this to upstage me. Sure my ego is damaged, this guy tried copying me when I was present and then once I was gone went way off the script.
Am I wrong to be angry at this? Should I treat this situation like an attempt has been made to steal my spot in the band by his over selling of the material and unwillingness to tow the line? Or am I being paranoid?
I know how I feel and why, but I'd be interested in hearing from others to see what they thought.
I trusted this guy to be "me" for a few nights and instead I got "check out how fancy I can play" now that Gerry is not around.
Seems like a s :poop:t thing to do in my case. What's more, this guy has failed with his own band attempts, and only has a part time cover band to play in, so I figured he would be quite good at copying me..........I guess I misjudged that.
Feeling lots of anger and ego bruising right now, and I don't think I should, but there you go.
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Hmmm...drama...
Gerry, I don't know about this guy, but I do know that I tend to overcompensate when I don't know the material as well as I should. I play extra notes in solos, become much busier with fills where there were never any fills, over sing, and jump around a lot. The jumping around part is the only one I recommend, none of the others are conducive to a group performance.
I don't do it consciously, it's nerves. Could be what's going on with your friend, or not. :dunno: Sumpin to think about
Even if that's not it, people are going to do what they want to do, until they can't. So, try not to get yourself in a lather over other people's actions. Remember, your reaction is not a reflection of them, but you. I had to remind myself of that today. If it were me, I'd ask him, straight up.
Hey man, I appreciate the extra flare, but can we play the song the way it was written next time? Simple as that. His answer(s) will tell you what you want to know. Just keep your cool, the guy who loses his cool first, has already lost the argument. Yer not lookin' for trouble, just answers. Keep it professional - tact and diplomacy - you get more bees with honey. (I don't need to tell you all this, but ....I feel like somebody out there should see it)
lettuce all know how it goes :thumb-up:
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I totally agree with Dante on this.
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Yeah, it's possible the new guy is simply very eager and/or is overdoing it, but... he could just as well be going for your job.. And given how the music(k) scene operates, how many would not give it a go when a chance pops-up?
I think angry emotions won't do you any good.
You now have more busy times, job-wise, you arranged for a stand-in.
Don't get me wrong, I do understand your emotions, but letting partly go of a position is asking for potential trouble. It's the jungle law ruling.
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Over compensate? Well this may be, but it’s certainly not how I would respond myself. If it’s over compensating he’s over compensated a lot. He also didn’t over compensate when we rehearsed together.
As for giving up my spot is asking for potential trouble, that’s BS with all due respect. I want my band to keep the rollin’ and not cancelling shows for what ever reason, and these shows were in another two countries so really important to spread our name to these places. So I see my stepping aside as the right thing to do for the good of the band.
I think I need to state that this guy isn’t joining the band or in the band, he was asked to help us complete 3 shows. I expected the guy to play the songs the way he did in rehearsal, but he didn’t, and to me that’s a sly. So my main thing is, he played them close enough to me in rehearsal. However in his last rehearsal before the shows (without me present) and in the actual gigs he went way over the top. So that’s obvious to me that he was doing what he felt was a better way to play things, and for all I know trying to earn my spot in the band………………….all of which was done behind my back. I don’t need to speak to him about this and say “please stick to the script” as he likely will never be needed again, but if I did need him again I would full on ask him to play things properly. Funny for a guy with such ability he couldn’t quite grasp some simple rhythms, never mind sticking in sweep appregios in my solos.
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Hey RG, you feel how you feel about it, if you asked him to just be you for the couple of gigs, he should have done his "professional" best to do just that so I would be pissed about that aspect. As for you ego, let it go, your a good guitarist and it's your music, from what you say he overplayed which, to me, detracts from his professionalism and as a person. That he maybe thought elements in the songs could/should be different, that's not what he was "payed" to do, and he shouldn't have done that. If he was trying to get your spot in the band, well as you say that's not happening so no need to feel threatened there. If he was just trying to maximize his time "in the sun" and show case himself, understandable I spose but again very unprofessional. I assume this is the most exposure he's ever had ? so he was out to impress while he had a chance. That you wanted the band to do the gigs is sensible, cancelling gigs is a severe career limiting move (unless you are a huge star). Not that I've seen/heard him play but "such ability" isn't something I'd credit him with. Grasping and delivering the rhythms and the essence and energy of the song is ability, chucking in sweep arpeggios, while sounding impressive, isn't ability, he's just rattling off stuff he's practiced over and over (look at me, look at me :facepalm: , aren't I great). Don't stay angry, his actions were puerile IMO, he hasn't got a patch on you, you care about the whole, he just cares about himself and what he can get out of it (which is unfortunate for him as he had the chance to do something really decent). If I were you I'd never use him again, he had his chance. But if you did (and you've done some work to get him up to speed) don't "ask" him to play things properly, tell him to. You are paying him to stand in, so he should just do his job. Anyway, my 2 cents worth. :wave:
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I agree with Richard. I dont think the stand in was trying to show you up, or steal your slot in the band. However I do think he wanted to show off a bit, maybe to use some of that video footage as a "resume'" of sorts to land another gig, maybe his ego got in the way. Either way it was very uncool of him to do so. As Richard said that wasn't what he was paid to do. Your the man in your band, he was a temporary stand in. I wouldn't waste the energy being upset. Piss on him, he just screwed himself out of any future fill ins for you.
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Richard brings up a good point; the Golden rule. The man with the gold, makes the rules. You are paying HIM. Tell him to play the songs right (or, never use him again).
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May be he wasn’t trying to show me up or steal my spot, but it sure as hell felt like it, simply because he gave me the impression he was going to play things as close to me as possible. I even think he extended a solo just so he could show off even more at one point. I couldn’t believe that!
But I guess You are both right, not worth wasting my energy being angry at him. I just didn’t think he would have done that, really trusted him.
And yes, I myself put money in to pay for this guy’s expenses, so yeah he’s takin advantage of the situation. Perhaps he was trying to maximize his moment in the sun, but he didn’t focus on playing the songs the way they were supposed to be played and he played things differently in a way that made it seem like he could do a better job.
Hopefully I do not need another stand in, however in future if I do need one, I will not be asking him again so yeah this guy has burnt that bridge with me and it is a shame because he put the effort in initially.
I STILL reckon, he was trying to get us to expand to a four piece, I got hints of it at rehearsals when he would start playing stuff to whatever I was playing and it sounded good, but that aint happening for a number of reasons.
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That's a rough spot, mate. I was wondering what was going on over there....
My take is that it does sound like he wants to try to convince someone that he needs to be a permanent member. Blame him? RBOTN is touring most of UK and getting worldwide recognition and a great band too. Who wouldn't want a legit chance to get in on that?
But anyway....he was hired to do a job and do it properly.
The singer in one of my old bands called me to ask if his new guitarist could talk to me about how stuff was played. I said sure because it was the right thing to do. He later called and asked about how should he play the solos. I told him he was free to be himself with them as long as they somewhat resembled the original because that's what I would have done in the same situation. No egos to stroke, no egos to crush. It's this reason I could never be in a hard rock/metal cover band. I won't do the solos note for note but I won't add too much either.
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So yeah I contributed payment to this dude, again for the good of the band as some members are in a real tight spot at the moment, and this is what happens. So I helped pay for a guy who went in to try and one up me.
Now it could be he couldn't quite crack the material, and then did his own thing, but I doubt that as I don't think much of it is that difficult. Although he did seem to not quite get some rhythms or riffs for what ever reason.
The whole thing has rubbed me the wrong way, but I guess I'll just have to live with this and forget it happened.
What happened with your old singer Kim and the new guitarist was very honourable, now that is precisely the attitude I got from my stand in when we were together. But as I saw for myself, he did his own versions.
Kim I know you follow our FB page, check out some of the footage if you get a chance. Totally infuriating from my perspective.
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If he ignored the "mainstay" parts of your solos then he's a d*ck. There's nothing wrong with "seasoning" the parts of a solo that are more freeform but the melody of a known solo should always stand if you're filling in. Perfect example of this is Reb Beach when he played for a while in Dokken. Check out the live concert. He blazes on it and his tone is incredible, BUT you recognize the Just Got Lucky and In My Dreams solo melodies right away.
Sounds like you've got Jannick Gers filling in for you.... all flash, no substance. I'll check out the videos tonight and chime in more.
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Sounds like you've got Jannick Gers filling in for you.... all flash, no substance. I'll check out the videos tonight and chime in more.
I can't actually bring myself to check out all of it, but from the short clips I saw he looked like he was making the most of it. Bastard!
No way I like Janick Gers lol no one seems to ever say anything nice about him :lol: poor Janick. It's funny you mention him, Maiden played Belfast not long back, and the stand in guy mentioned how terrible he thought Janick was. That's kinda a weird coincidence. Anyways Samuraipanda if you know where to find the vids do check them out.
The guy might have better chops than me, but that's not the point. I do my own thing and that's what sets me apart (I hope).
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I think it's all about priorities. If the band is 'all' important, then find a way to play the gigs, otherwise expect the unexpected.
If you 'have' to get a job or you'll be out on the street then I can understand not meeting the band obligation. If you're looking for a better job than you have but don't require it to make ends meet then the obligation to the other members would be to play the gigs. Which is more important? The new job or the band?
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If he ignored the "mainstay" parts of your solos then he's a d*ck. There's nothing wrong with "seasoning" the parts of a solo that are more freeform but the melody of a known solo should always stand if you're filling in.
100% agree. There's the "meat and potatoes" part of any good solo, and there's the "seasoning". All seasoning and no meat n taters isn't a meal.
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I think it's all about priorities. If the band is 'all' important, then find a way to play the gigs, otherwise expect the unexpected.
If you 'have' to get a job or you'll be out on the street then I can understand not meeting the band obligation. If you're looking for a better job than you have but don't require it to make ends meet then the obligation to the other members would be to play the gigs. Which is more important? The new job or the band?
Well it was my idea to keep the ball rolling, I could have said "I can't do those shows, so cancel 'em", but I didn't. I don't see why the guy couldn't stick to the script for three shows.
I don't know what your situation is like with your job and your band, I can tell you that 'have' to get a job doesn't come into it. There would be no band had I no job. I don't know any musicians playing original music that make any money. We make a bit of money but not enough to support any of us by a long stretch.
To suggest I should expect the unexpected because I chose a brand new job over three gigs is a joke, having spent time looking for the right guy to do the kind of job that we wanted done.
I took better paying job because keeping head above water where I live is getting harder and I need more money. Also it was for my own mental health that I took the new job!
The reason I could not do the shows was because in my old job I had worked there so long that I had a lot more annual leave/day's off to take. So because I accepted the new job I had less annual leave to take and therefore compromised our touring plans for the year. I also got less time off taking the new job because I was starting three months into the year which meant my annual leave quota would be less than say had I started in January. Each of the band members and our manager wanted me to take the job, and each one knew I was willing to turn it down for the sake of the band as well.
But that is neither here nor there, both are important, and there is no choosing between the too because they are linked. Had I no job, there would be no band. Both the other guys have jobs as well, all our bands plans revolve around our day jobs, THAT's reality and that is the reality for most bands at our level. Gigging as regular as possible and touring using annual leave in work.
This will not be a problem next year as I will have more annual leave, so choosing a guy to fill in for 3 shows was a means to a end.
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Hey RG, you are IMO right to be pissed, he was a prick, and I don't need to hear him to decide that, I don't agree he's got better chops than you (and I don't need to hear him to decide that either). He's a one trick pony who can't grasp the holistic aspect of the music/songs or get the fundamentals right, yeah sweep arpeggios sound like you can play, they have their place but are, in the end, just a little icing on the cake (and largely overdone particularly in the metal scene it seems). As I said before "look at me aren't I great :facepalm: ". Hey, you gave him a pedestal, he abused it clear and simple. Being a guitar player in a band (and your much more than that anyway) is much more than being able to rattle off a bunch of fancy sounding stuff you've been practicing over and over (to the exclusion of making the whole song right ie not getting the basics). I have utmost respect for you as both a guitarist and a band member, I have no respect for him as he sought to just showcase himself by playing lots of diddle daddle which quite frankly bores me. I like your playing, its got soul, you care, your not just trying to sound "fantastic" or whatever, your playing YOUR music, IMO he's just doing the metal version of Muzak. Moreover he's f*cked up completely, as in if you ever "did" want another guitar in the band (and you I know you don't), you wouldn't pick him.I've thought about this from the perspective of if you say asked me to either fill in for you or just get up and have a play with you and your band (both I'd be very happy to do opposite sides of the world and logistics aside). I would do my utmost to keep the authenticity of the songs paramount (particularly the energy (my main focus)), not overplay (hey not to say I wouldn't use my chops, but I suspect mine are a bit more honest and earnt than his :dunno: , I suspect he's just playing platitudes with no soul).I feel your hurt, and he's just been greedy (oo I have a chance, I can be a star), don't let it get to you (a platitude in itself, sorry).You keep saying he's got better chops than you, why ? just coz he's worked out and practiced lots of sweeping stuff, spare me please :facepalm: , I want heart and soul not mosquitoes, sure it sound impressive (sometimes) but does it fit ? is it music ? or just fluff :dunno: no real substance (not saying it can't be good). You are comparing yourself to him, whilst understandable in the situation, there is no need. It's chalk and shit here (to me anyway), he hasn't got a patch on you, it's your band and your songs and you do them very well (not to mention you do the engineering and production :thumb-up: ).
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+1.
I think Richard nailed it!
Be proud of what you've done Gerry. I love your riffs, song structure, lyrics ect. You are the whole package not just a flash in the pan. Today's music scene needs more people like you! Hold your head high and proud my metal brother :metal:
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Sorry Gerry. It's your band and your songs and they should be played the way you wrote them. I don't mean any harm but sometimes I do stick my foot in it... What I wouldn't give to be a starving musician again... but that was in a previous life. I guess I'm too far away from that life to be objective.
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Addressing Herby first, man you didn't put your foot in it. I'm just saying, I didn't leave my self open for this situation to arise, the guy took advantage of the opportunity, when he shouldn't have. He was hired to do a few shows for me because important life shit prevented me from doing a couple of shows. So I bit the bullet and said "hell get a stand in for some gigs and then I'll be back". I don't think that really warrants a guy to come in, go off script and start to play things his way, and over blow the solos. Not when he stood there in front of me playing about 85% - 90% versions of the songs giving me the impression he would remain faithful to the originals. I had no idea he was going to flash it all up. To me that was a statement that he felt he could do a better job, or he thought the songs would be better his way.
People say is my "band a hobby"? Because I have a job, and I'm like "no". It's way more than that. It occupies a massive amount of my time and my life. But unfortunately day jobs come part in parcel with bands these days. Many big name bands are touring with guys who have day jobs. Why? Because the industry, more so today doesn't pay. Why? Probably a combination of downloads, over saturation thanks to the internet across all genres and the fact that people see paying for music as entertainment as something that they shouldn't really be paying for as there are so many ways to get it free. It's sad, but it's reality. I could make more money from music if I was in a cover band. We also make more money selling our merch than we do playing gigs!!
@Richard, I only compare myself to that guy because he was playing me for three nights, so it's hard not to.
But I hear ya man, and thanks.
As for the kind words from Rnolan, Sololist, Kim, thanks guys, it means a lot. I didn't start this thread for some "back patting", but it's nice to hear. I might have a bit of a complex in regards to my own guitar playing ability, but that's something I have to deal with and I don't seem to be able to help that. I guess I always want to be better, I admire and look up to guys, idols of mine, hero's who are way better than me, and I always want to be as good as them, so that's my drive. I never feel like I'm anywhere close though. Sometimes I feel better, other times I don't.
@Soloist glad you dig the music I write also. Sometimes I feel it's not complex enough or difficult enough. For some reason those silly benchmarks seem to determine whether you are any good or not. They definitely do for some reason in the metal world. Metal Brother together man :headbanger:
So yeah that guy aint getting asked back to fill in for me anytime soon!
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Hi Gerry.
I know you have pretty much wrapped up this thread, but I am very curious about one point that hasn't come up yet: what did the other guys in your band make of this guy?
Mike
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Hi Mike,
well, good question.
I was told by our singer "everything back to normal for the Belfast gig". So that doesn't say much about that guy vs me. I told him I wasn't happy and he said he didn't think the other guy was trying to steal my spot. But I haven't spoken to them directly about it, that was just texts. Our drummer probably will have some kind of wishy washy response.
This is also something that has been bothering me to, that they didn't object to this guy f**king shit up, they went along with it. Didn't complain to the best of my knowledge. There will be more to add to this Mike when I ask them about it directly.
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There's something to be said for loyalty...
Sometimes I feel it's not complex enough or difficult enough. For some reason those silly benchmarks seem to determine whether you are any good or not. They definitely do for some reason in the metal world.
Complexity is great but it does get old. Personally, I like short bursts of it now and then. It keeps people wondering when the next burst is coming. It's the anticipation factor. Besides... sooner or later you start repeating yourself and that can get old also.
Gerry: Can you post a link to your page please?
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here it
https://www.Faceb**k.com/NWOBHMRBOTN (https://www.Faceb**k.com/NWOBHMRBOTN)
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Gerry nothing to worry about he has good taste in guitars but his tone was ok and hes a little sloppy not that im perfect at all just an opinion
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Yeah, Gerry. I agree with 'bunkyloo'
Defending Two Castles :headbanger: Great song.
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Well I thought he was messy also, not as clinical as how I play those rhythms, but then I dunno, perhaps I'm a bit messy with other aspects of my playing I dunno.
Glad you liked the song.
Haha not my kind of guitar lol, I'm more of a cheapo axe player then do them up! Stuck a 1meg pot in a Squier Stagemaster last night and it really have given a nice little bit of extra sizzle!
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Well that's always cool too I just love my early RG's though Ive loved many Kramer Charvel I actually just picked up a squire bass I did order new electronics but that's only because the pickguard was cracked anyways.