ADA Depot - A Forum To Support Users of ADA Amplification Gear
Miscellaneous => Discussions => Topic started by: Chamai on August 26, 2015, 08:50:33 PM
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So I have owned my 2 MP-1's for a year. I kinda left it alone after few months of playing with it and move back into tube amps because you can get such a nice saturation when you crank the power tubes which you can't really do with the mp-1.
I powered my MP-1 for the first time in months with my old school rack processors tonight, i fell in love with it again. i was playing it for 2 hours straight. man, it's horrible for low gain stuff, but for 80's hair metal and power metal, it's damn near perfect. i love that over processed guitar sound. the unit by itself is kinda dry so you really need to run some effects and eq on it to make the best out of it. i wish it had a tad bit more low end when i do palm mutes, but it still sounds killer through my orange cab. :banana-guitar:
I think i am going to buy a 4x12 dedicated to the mp1. going to find myself a 4x12 marshall loaded with v30s. funny that my spare mp1 battery died before my main one.
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Can you post your setting (specially for low gain)? Also if you need more low end just add eq in the loop at 80hz :)
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There's also some eq mods you can do to change the low end centre freq to be lower, but as El said, just add some 80hz it will help round it out. If you do a dedicated box, wire it it so it can be stereo or mono (or get a cab already set like that.) The MP1/2 sound sooo much better in stereo. I never did much low gain stuff with my MP1 when I had it. These days I run my MP2 mid gain (warm vintage) and it sings. And I agree, you need some FX, I use a shortish stereo delay (L 130ms/R 170ms) and some reverb, bliss...
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MP1 over processed? Anyone else tend to think this? I wouldn't say that myself.
My stock MP1 defo lacks the extra layer of gain I feel. The layer you need with either boost in front or else the 3TM version. Without the boost it's flubby in the low end and doesn't have the chunk. Yes it has gain but not that extra layer you get with something driving the front be it an EQ pedal clean or overdrive set very low.
say Chamai do me a favour, make some recordings man and let me hear your metal playing using the stock mp1. I'm curious to hear your results. Also please let me hear your settings :) This would be cool and interesting since I always find I need to extra layer or else a 3tm.
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Yeah, i think I agree with you, Gerry. The fact that it's a bit dry and needs some effects points in the other direction to me. I would like the extra gain that comes with the 3tm but i really don't want to sacrifice my clean tone. Perhaps i should try a boost in front. There have been a couple of options for that on this forum and I'd never considered it properly until now.
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I think with "over-processed" Chamai refers to the whole package of MP1 plus multiple fx (units)...
I powered my MP-1 for the first time in months with my old school rack processors tonight,... I love that over processed guitar sound. the unit by itself is kinda dry so you really need to run some effects and eq on it to make the best out of it.
think Def Leppard Hysteria typo tone (all Rockman stuff), or maybe some early Pink Cream 69 (Alfred Koffler still has/uses an MP1 according to his gear list; back the it was an ESP M-II with PAF Pros into an MP1).
I personally never had the impression the MP1 lacked gain...having it properly set up/adjusted, some higain spec'd tubes in there and a hotter bridge PU I always felt I had enough gain on tap.
OD1 for Drive (7.0) and OD2 for Saturation (8.0 - 9.0)
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Yeah, i think I agree with you, Gerry. The fact that it's a bit dry and needs some effects points in the other direction to me. I would like the extra gain that comes with the 3tm but i really don't want to sacrifice my clean tone. Perhaps i should try a boost in front. There have been a couple of options for that on this forum and I'd never considered it properly until now.
Yeah I have to say this is where I am at also. Now 3tm Excluded, regular MP1 has gain alright. But what I am talking about is the "extra layer" which is my experience can only be achieved by another gain stage. And wait till you hear this. I don't heap on the gain right after I have this extra gain stage at the front either. I just need that extra thickening agent that another gain stage brings. I'll give you an example. Stock MP1, I bang up the gain, great lots of gain!! WOOHOO! But it's too open for me, not responsive enough, and not great for my style of playing guitar (I don't even mean heavy metal here I just mean my own personal style). If I have the "extra layer" added I get the thicker tone I am after and it's not even a gain thing anymore, it's more a feel, a feel for chunk I guess. Hopefully someone knows what I'm getting at here.
However as soon as you drop the gain in overall tone, the extra gain stage can make your sound thin, and it just doesn't sound right, it sounds hollow. So if you are lowering the overall gain for whatever it is you are playing you could probably do with dropping the "extra layer", then the lower gain doesn't have the stupid hollowness. So basically what I think I'm saying is add the extra gain stage for thickness and spongey feeling saturation, but drop it as soon as you want to drop overall distortion in your tone (accordingly to whatever it is you are playing and what tone is required).
3TM has this "extra layer" built in basically. I still have not cracked the stock MP1 in my live setup. I Get some ok sounds but not yet where I want to be. In a direct recording environment I had it sussed.
I'll make a few clips next week and let you all hear where I'm at.
In regards to my plan to move over to a preamp in my live setup, the compliments keep flying in about the tone I get from my old Boss GT5 :) I find this amazing since there is a lot of hatred out there for MFX units. A german band said to me last night "where was your amp? I could not see any tubes". I said "that's all coming out of my pedal man.......................then into two little power amps one at either side playing in stereo".
f**king great gig last night BTW not bad considering I'm only back from holiday and haven't rehearsed in two weeks :lol:
I think with "over-processed" Chamai refers to the whole package of MP1 plus multiple fx (units)...
think Def Leppard Hysteria typo tone (all Rockman stuff), or maybe some early Pink Cream 69 (Alfred Coffer still has/uses an MP1 according to hier gear list; back the it was an ESP M-II with PAF Pros into an MP1).
I personally never had the impression the MP1 lacked gain...having it properly set up/adjusted, some higain spec'd tubes in there and a hotter bridge PU I always felt I had enough gain on tap.
OD1 for Drive (7.0) and OD2 for Saturation (8.0 - 9.0)
Really? (in regards to what Chamai meant). The reason I say this is because I have read this quite a lot about the MP1. Many people who don't like it think it's very processed so this is why I assumed that is what he meant. Personally I don't think it is. And secondly I don't mind processed sounding guitar :) you just need to know how to use it.
Leppard used Rockman stuff for that whole album apparently. You know I am a fan of that sound. Although Def Leppard suck absolute balls. Good live band though as I say them once when I was 15.
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sorry for the late reply guys, i was busy training for my 122km gran fondo bike ride from vancouver to whistler. i don't really have a low gain setting anymore after i did a reset on my mp1.
here is my main setting. OD1: 7: OD2: 4.8 MV: 6.5 BASS:2 MID:0 TREBLE: 4: PRESENCE:2 OR 0.
I boost 80khz, 250khz, 500khz, and kill a bit for 8000 khz.
here is my current rig. W/D/W
ada mp1 to jcm2000 power section ( to further mess with eq because the mp1 is somewhat limited). send->digitect gsp pro (for chorus only)->ART 31band eq -> return to ada mp1. and orange 2x12 closed cab.
ada mp1 line out -> tc g major (for delay and reverb) -> mosvalve power amp -> 2 1x12 rocktron cabs in stereo.
the unit by itself is quite thin sounding. if i bump the bass too much, it gets flubby. to tight up the bass, i gotta take some bass out, but then it sounds thin.
i need that low end chug!!
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MP1 over processed? Anyone else tend to think this? I wouldn't say that myself.
My stock MP1 defo lacks the extra layer of gain I feel. The layer you need with either boost in front or else the 3TM version. Without the boost it's flubby in the low end and doesn't have the chunk. Yes it has gain but not that extra layer you get with something driving the front be it an EQ pedal clean or overdrive set very low.
say Chamai do me a favour, make some recordings man and let me hear your metal playing using the stock mp1. I'm curious to hear your results. Also please let me hear your settings :) This would be cool and interesting since I always find I need to extra layer or else a 3tm.
totally agree with it. it needs that extra layer. i don't really have anything to record with. im kinda banned from buying gear until we move in the end of the year.
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Well if I may put my 2 cents on this one:
1) what type of low gain tone are you looking for? Try OD2 at 0 (yeha it works at 0 and don't know if I can take the credit for finding out that or not :p ) and then work OD1 up to see how much "brakeup" you want by overdriving clean OD2.
2) Try my crazy eq settings with OD1 and OD2 at 5.0 as a starting point for good distorted starting point and with the eq like this I only add 6db boost on 80khz:
B: 0
M: -8
T: 0
P: 0
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just messed around with my ada again. i threw out completely how i usually set my patches out the window.
im getting a massive sound without really need to eq anything.
bass 4
mid 2
treble 0
pres 4
now it sounds a lot more natural and i don't have to do massive eqing to get the right sound
i boost 80khz a bit, cut 250khz just a tab bit to get it to sound less muddy. boosted 1000khz and 8khz a bit to get a little more mids and presence. now it sounds like a real amp.
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Hey Chamai, great news :whoohoo!: :thumb-up: . Sounds like you have much better overall gain structure now.
@El, I think you can take credit for the 0 OD2 setting :thumb-up: . With my MP2, the lower gain voices only have one OD albeit in a quite different circuit than MP1
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Hey Chamai, great news :whoohoo!: :thumb-up: . Sounds like you have much better overall gain structure now.
@El, I think you can take credit for the 0 OD2 setting :thumb-up: . With my MP2, the lower gain voices only have one OD albeit in a quite different circuit than MP1
thanks
seriously the ada mp1 is really hard to program. it's completely different than anything out there.
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I remember it took me a while to get my patches sorted (way back). I started with the Marshall (#1) sound and modified it. But the main thing I was doing back then was getting the master vol right for different patches. I ran up all my sounds (loud) at rehearsals and then tweaked them live, again mostly the master vols. The MP2 I found easier "out of the box". I remember it being hard to say, stop, that's good enough as they are both so versatile.
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Sorry El I new about the "0" setting still giving sound :)
In regards to programming the MP1. Yes I'll agree it's tricky. I do think the EQ is limited also. And I also think the jumps between numbers on the EQ can be a little drastic from one to the next sometime. I'm still working on it, however shit gets a lot easier when I have the "extra layer". Bass is suddenly way tighter and the saturation starts to work nice. To get rid of the flubby bass you get without the "extra layer" you need to dial down the bass in MP1 eq a great deal. I've tried only to use the MP1 to modify its own sound with my live set up which is:
Boss GT5 > MP1 in moveable FX loop > Boss GT5 Effects > 2xCrate Power Block > 4 x 2x12" cabs
The patch I have been messing with only consists of the one effect on from the boss which is the reverb. I don't even have the boss EQ on (perhaps I should start messing with that now to help the limited MP1 EQ). So mostly what I have been working with is the MP1 on its own. I can get a nice sound sure but not quite what I need. ENTER! The boost. As I have the MP1 in the GT5s moveable FX loop I can place it anywhere in the chain of FX on the boss. So I can turn on the Boss analogue overdrive, turn the drive to zero, and leave the level about 50. Suddenly the MP1 gets CHUNKY! And then I find I'm in the zone. However feedback is an issue but I'll get it sorted I'm sure.
I have not set on anything dead certain yet and I am still playing about. When I do I will have the Boss programmed to allow me to turn a stereo chorus on when ever I want, and also a volume boost. And occasionally a harmonizer. I am looking forward to nailing it.
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The settings I used in the beginning are TOTALLY different than what I use now! Of course everyones different rig changes the tone but I think the real thing to get used to the MP-1 is that the eq is active and does not interact with each other like the eq on a normal amp. For me one day I said f*ck it and started trying crazy settings and guess what, they worked for me! :)
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The settings I used in the beginning are TOTALLY different than what I use now! Of course everyones different rig changes the tone but I think the real thing to get used to the MP-1 is that the eq is active and does not interact with each other like the eq on a normal amp. For me one day I said f*ck it and started trying crazy settings and guess what, they worked for me! :)
what do you mean the eq is active? Do explain? Perhaps with what you're about to tell me in mind might help me when programmin :)
For my live rig I have been using some unusual settings. Like really having to drop a lot of bass for example.
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By this I meen that (and I want the forum gurus to clarify) a normal eq section on an amp only cuts (basicly you have the base signal with the knobs at 10 and then you cut B/M/T/P as you roll down the knobs but the eq of the MP-1 adds and cuts in the freqs that its eq section is made (so it works like an eq pedal/unit). This also meens that on a normal eq of an amp the center freq points actually shift around deppending where the other knobs are at and on the MP-1 as other eq pedal or units those points are fixed.
So can the gurus chime on this?
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Ahhh I see. I had no idea. Ignorance is bliss!! That's interesting, forgive me guru god on here I didn't know that about amps either.
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By this I meen that (and I want the forum gurus to clarify) a normal eq section on an amp only cuts (basicly you have the base signal with the knobs at 10 and then you cut B/M/T/P as you roll down the knobs but the eq of the MP-1 adds and cuts in the freqs that its eq section is made (so it works like an eq pedal/unit). This also meens that on a normal eq of an amp the center freq points actually shift around deppending where the other knobs are at and on the MP-1 as other eq pedal or units those points are fixed.
So can the gurus chime on this?
Yes most tube heads have a passive tone section,passive means it can only cut.Very simple design with a few caps,a resistor and 3 pots.Now the presence is different and is actually sort of active since it works in the feedback circuit of the amp.Same goes for the resonance knobs on the more modern amps,but these can also be installed on older amps.
Now some tube amps did have an active EQ section,what comes to mind is the marshall major 200W also called the pig which had only 3 controls,vol,bass and treble which were active.Another example is the JCM800 bass head which also had an active bass and treble EQ.
Now the passive eq even if everything is on 10 isn't actually flat,there will be some eq'ing going on due to the design.
Here is a nice site with some more info,there's even a emulator so you can "see" how it works in the freq domain.
http://www.duncanamps.com/technical/tonestack.html
So EL i hope this answers your question?
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Well I actually didnt made a question just wanted you to come up and say if what I said was correct or not jeje.
And yeha, by flat I ment "flat" to the design... This is also why I use those crazy settings because using a normal amp setting on a MP-1 I don't think works good because the actual design I believe is not ment to be based on any other reference amp (like when you get amps from the same brand sometimes they tend to have that Brands tone... most every Marshall after the Plexi carries that base tone but maybe shifts it a little bit to a particular sound but a Marshall sound "should" at least be a Marshall......... also with any other amp that is a clone or based from an original amp design should use similar eq settings to get a similar tone) BUT the MP-1 base tone isnt cloning anything so maybe for me when I put the Mid at -8 it gets in the ball park of a tone that on another amp is 6!
Who knows, I just say dont be afraid to play around with those settings to get a tone that you wouldnt expect unless you tried it! :)
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Hey but good answer MJMP :thumb-up: In some ways the ADA preamps were the first profiler/cloners but using the same analogue/tube circuity. You can pull up the sound of pretty much any tube amp of the time and then some ( >:D they do have their own sound though :whoohoo!: ). They were also fore front into rack set ups (we all know/own/love). Yes you can emulate many different sounds with ADA preamps, you can also create your own sound (so totally agree EL, don't be afraid to play around, experiment, take it to the limit... and share it here LoL)