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Author Topic: Cabinet Sims and Microtube power amps  (Read 5178 times)

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trader144

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i want to combine my microtube power amp with a cabinet modeller for direct input without attaching a real speaker

i understand that the ADA microtube is not a full tube amp but partial solid state.

does this mean using an attenuator will damage it?

does the microtube power amp work  with the microcab II, and if yes why is it safe for the microtube?

any suggestions?
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Guitars: Malmsteen strat, Fender '62 reissue
Rig: Avid 11 Rack -> ADA MP-1 (stock) ->  ADA Microtube 100 -> ADA split stack

MarshallJMP

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Re: Cabinet Sims and Microtube power amps
« Reply #1 on: Time Format »

No an attentuator will not damage it (unless you go down to 2 ohms).

Yes it will work with the MCII but the MCII doesn't have a load build in.On the other hand the microtube doesn't need a load since it's not a tube amp.
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trader144

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Re: Cabinet Sims and Microtube power amps
« Reply #2 on: Time Format »


MarshallJMP,

wow i did not expect an answer from you!

thank you this makes a lot of sense.
some places refer to the microtube as having an A and B attenuator built in, while others said it had a solid state amp, so it was confusing

does the microtube volume affect how much the tubes are driven or are the tubes always static?





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Guitars: Malmsteen strat, Fender '62 reissue
Rig: Avid 11 Rack -> ADA MP-1 (stock) ->  ADA Microtube 100 -> ADA split stack

rnolan

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Re: Cabinet Sims and Microtube power amps
« Reply #3 on: Time Format »

The microtube is a hybrid ie valve input stage and ss output stage.  The volume pots should affect how much signal the valves get (are driven) although they won't be designed to add gain like the MP1 or MP2 valves as you want them to be clean.
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Studio Rig: MP2/MB1 > Eurorack UB2442FX-Pro > TC M-One XL > Behringer Truths (with Truth Sub) / QUAD ESL 63s
Live Rig: MP2/MB1 > Alesis Quadverb > Alesis Midiverb 4 > Yamaha AM802 > B200s/Carvin TS100/DCM200L > ADA Split Stacks/Mesa P112s

MarshallJMP

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Re: Cabinet Sims and Microtube power amps
« Reply #4 on: Time Format »

The vol pots are placed just after the inputs and before the tubes.
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trader144

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Re: Cabinet Sims and Microtube power amps
« Reply #5 on: Time Format »

Thank you, this makes sense so that the line level outputs work.

So I am running an original MP-1 through the new ADA GCS-3 cabinet simulator (in between are an EQ and a TC G Major).
I am only using the effects loop send from the MP-1 because the output A really sounded bad, so nothing is plugged into the A or B outputs of the MP1.

Any tips, concerns, thoughts, comments would be appreciated.
« Last Edit: Time Format by trader144 »
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Guitars: Malmsteen strat, Fender '62 reissue
Rig: Avid 11 Rack -> ADA MP-1 (stock) ->  ADA Microtube 100 -> ADA split stack

MarshallJMP

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Re: Cabinet Sims and Microtube power amps
« Reply #6 on: Time Format »

What do you mean by sounding bad?does the B out also sound bad?
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trader144

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Re: Cabinet Sims and Microtube power amps
« Reply #7 on: Time Format »

Thank you.

The A output sounds great when I used the front input, the A out through a G Major and then run through a Microtube amp and into a speaker cabinet.
However when I run it through the GCS-3 instead of the speaker cabinet, the sound was scratchy (not due to the pots).

Using the MP-1 Send instead of the A output though the G Major and then to the GSC (also bypassing the amp) the sound was perfect (read a suggestion elsewhere to always use the send from the MP-1).

I suppose it was a level matching issue.
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Guitars: Malmsteen strat, Fender '62 reissue
Rig: Avid 11 Rack -> ADA MP-1 (stock) ->  ADA Microtube 100 -> ADA split stack

rnolan

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Re: Cabinet Sims and Microtube power amps
« Reply #8 on: Time Format »

It does sound like level matching (gain) issues.  I would use the G Major in the MP1s loop and then the A and B outputs to the power amp.  Adjusting the loop gain and G Major in/out levels so they match (and mix in the amount of effect you want). And with your GCS-3 take MP1 A (or B) output.  I don't see the point of plugging the Microtube out into the GCS-3 (the amp in on the GCS is really for recording all in one guitar amps).  Unless the Microtube is adding some colour to the sound that you want to keep, it's a waist of power as the GSC needs to absorb the amp output (watts) and throw them away to get back to a line level signal.  Using the G-Major outs to feed the power amp (or GCS) means that you have lost the original tube analogue sound and dynamics to some extent as the first thing the TCs do is convert the lovely analogue tube signal to digital (if you look at the G-Major schematic the first thing after the input jacks is an A/D converter).  By using it the MP1s loop you're mixing the MP1 analogue signal with the digital effects.  Unfortunately, you loose the stereo of the G-Major but the GCS is mono anyway (unless you buy 2  ;) ).  To keep the G-Maj stereo, you could use a small (at least 4 input) mixer with 2 (or more) effects (Aux) sends, ch 1/2 MP1 A/B outs, ch 3/4 G-Maj L/R outs, ch 1 Aux 1 to G-Maj Left in, ch 2 Aux 2 to Maj Right in, pan ch 1/2 and 3/4 right and left, main out to power amp ins (or GCS).  This is how I ran my MP1 setup (quadverb) and still how I run my MP2 rig.
I know I harp on a bit regarding A/D conversion and where it happens but it does make a difference (particularly with dynamics).  Good A/D conversion is very expensive and the only one I know of that approaches the bit/sample rates required to do a decent job is Sony's Super Audio (2Ghz sample rate, flat to 100Khz). "Oh but you can't hear above 17Khz" no but all the sum and differences of the frequencies you can't hear (electronically and in the air) still interact with one another (eg two 50Khz signal make a 25Khz, two 25Khz make a 12.5Khz which you can hear).
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Live Rig: MP2/MB1 > Alesis Quadverb > Alesis Midiverb 4 > Yamaha AM802 > B200s/Carvin TS100/DCM200L > ADA Split Stacks/Mesa P112s

trader144

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Re: Cabinet Sims and Microtube power amps
« Reply #9 on: Time Format »

Great post thank you. You are right on, I was wanting to use the microtube to get as much tube coloring as possible but in the end I am not hearing much of a difference with or without the microtube.

I will try this.
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Guitars: Malmsteen strat, Fender '62 reissue
Rig: Avid 11 Rack -> ADA MP-1 (stock) ->  ADA Microtube 100 -> ADA split stack

trader144

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Re: Cabinet Sims and Microtube power amps
« Reply #10 on: Time Format »

Update.

The MP-1 was working fine whether through the normal outs or through the send.

The issue was that I thought I had turned both Chorus knobs to zero but one was at 100 - so this was causing the hollow poor sound when I tried to connect the amp to the out jacks.
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Guitars: Malmsteen strat, Fender '62 reissue
Rig: Avid 11 Rack -> ADA MP-1 (stock) ->  ADA Microtube 100 -> ADA split stack

rnolan

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Re: Cabinet Sims and Microtube power amps
« Reply #11 on: Time Format »

No worries, hope it helps  :thumb-up:
If I don't need a specific chorus for a patch, I turn the chorus depth to 100 and rate 0.0.  This creates a very short (chorus length ~20ms) delay between the A and B outs.  When run in stereo, this provides a nice fattening of the sound.  In mono you wont get quite the same effect and it may (not positive here) cause a bit of low end phase cancellation which would sound hollow (bit like when you get one of your stereo speakers out of phase from reversing (usually accidentally) the  ve and -ve on one of the 2 speakers).  One speaker is pushing forward (compression (high pressure)), the other backward (rarefaction (low pressure)) which causes the sound to disappear particularly bass frequencies as the wave lengths in the air are longer.  But I've never run and ADA in mono, stereo sounds sooo much better.
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Studio Rig: MP2/MB1 > Eurorack UB2442FX-Pro > TC M-One XL > Behringer Truths (with Truth Sub) / QUAD ESL 63s
Live Rig: MP2/MB1 > Alesis Quadverb > Alesis Midiverb 4 > Yamaha AM802 > B200s/Carvin TS100/DCM200L > ADA Split Stacks/Mesa P112s

trader144

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Re: Cabinet Sims and Microtube power amps
« Reply #12 on: Time Format »

interesting
do you prefer stereo only because you are running a stereo effect such as chorus and/or delay?
how far apart do you place your split stacks on stage when running stereo?



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Guitars: Malmsteen strat, Fender '62 reissue
Rig: Avid 11 Rack -> ADA MP-1 (stock) ->  ADA Microtube 100 -> ADA split stack

rnolan

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Re: Cabinet Sims and Microtube power amps
« Reply #13 on: Time Format »

Hey trader144, I started running stereo when I bought my first stereo chorus pedal and ran it across 2 amp heads so yes that started me on the stereo path.  Also as I did a lot of live sound mixing, I ran PAs in stereo when I could to get the best out of stereo reverbs.
When I put together an MP-1 rig with B200s power amp and Alesis Quadverb, I modified my Yamaha quad box to be stereo, while not ideal, I put some cardboard between the 2 speaker pairs to improve separation.  I always used (and still do) a small mixer with 3 effects sends so I could keep the Quadverb stereo which I use for delays but mostly stereo reverb.  This also keeps the dynamic range of the MP-1 more intact as I mix in the full wet effects with the MP-1 signal and the mixer feeds the power amp.
Later, I bought a MP-2 and a pair of ADA slant split stacks.  Depending on stage real estate, I put them on milk crates and separate them as far as I can but still get the rack to sit across them.  On bigger stages, I set the rack up closer to the front/side of stage and then I can have a bit more space between the cabs (couple of feet, maybe a metre or so).  I try to position them so the top 12s in the slant split stacks open up on my ears so I don't play too loud (comparatively). I also have a single slant split stack that I rewired to be stereo or mono.  I use that at rehearsals as less to lug.  It's better than not being stereo but not as good as 2 separate boxes.
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Studio Rig: MP2/MB1 > Eurorack UB2442FX-Pro > TC M-One XL > Behringer Truths (with Truth Sub) / QUAD ESL 63s
Live Rig: MP2/MB1 > Alesis Quadverb > Alesis Midiverb 4 > Yamaha AM802 > B200s/Carvin TS100/DCM200L > ADA Split Stacks/Mesa P112s
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