ADA Depot - A Forum To Support Users of ADA Amplification Gear
Non ADA Gear => Effects => Topic started by: Harley Hexxe on April 02, 2024, 04:54:52 PM
-
Richard,
To reply to your post in the New Speaker Day thread, I'll say that was my original idea was to get a guitar synthesizer module and run it separately from my guitar amp rig. It seems like the CG-1 Strat I bought would give me that ability. It's basically a standard MIM Stratocaster with the magnetic pickups and 1/4" output jack, but there is only a volume and tone pot for the guitar. What would normally be the 2nd tone knob is actually a volume for the synth. There is a three-way mini toggle that lets you select guitar, synth, or both. There are also two push buttons under the guitar volume knob that lets you scroll up or down the synth programs. On the side of the guitar, under the jack is a 13-pin socket to connect to your synth module. No wireless on this guitar, you're on a double leash.
Connecting the 13-pin plug into the GP-10 gives me a blend of the guitar and synth effects, albeit a limited amount of synth programs. A few of them are cool and kind of useful, and there is a good version of the GR-300 synth in this. The problem here is that if you only use the 13-pin plug, the guitars are mostly the virtual guitars that are in the pedal. There are a few programs that allow the actual guitar pickups through and have added effects with it, which is kind of why I bought it. I wanted to see how this might work as a fly rig kind of thing. It's not too shabby, but it certainly can't replace my ADA rig, or any other actual guitar amp for that matter. That is my initial impression, and that could change as I get into the editing and experiment with it more. Last Thursday, when I got it, I had my guitar plugged into my GK 250ML, and the 13-pin plug into the GP-10. The speakers in the GK were shut off, and I was running both the amp and the GP-10 into my audio interface. I found it difficult to get a good mix, since the GP-10 effects and synths were set more as background sounds to the default guitars in the pedal.
I have a feeling the GR-55 is going to be much the same process since in addition to being more guitar synth based, it is also a guitar processor like the GP-10. Essentially, it's the synth module and a VG-99 system with the COSM amp modeling and IR processors too. However, Steve Stevens uses one with his rig and it sounds killer. I've been a longtime fan of his for his imaginative use of effects in his music. What I may have to do is run these processors out to their own power amps and cabs and blend them with my guitar amp rig.
The SY-1000 seems to be a dedicated guitar synthesizer though, and of course, it's the most expensive one of the GK pickup family that will work with this guitar.
I'm probably going to pick up one of those next and give it a go. In the meantime, I'll keep experimenting with this little box and see what I can get out of it and determine what kind of application in the real world it's best suited for.
-
I had a guitar synth for a while, it was fun but more trouble than it was worth for me. We used it for horn parts and keyboard parts, but I found myself playing the guitar entirely different when it was a piano or organ. No strumming down the strings, that sounded wrong, had to pluck multiple strings at once to emulate a true piano chord. It was a pain. As soon as I was out of that band, I sold that damn thing. The best solo patch I had was actually a harmonica.
It was a GR-30, I had the midi pickup attached to the top of my guitar with double sided velcro (didn't want extra holes in my guitar). I have a great story about that unit:
Playing on St' Patty's day, we had a great gig despite our rhythm guitarist having waaaaaaay too much green beer. After the gig, I'm tearing down my stuff, and he spills a FULL cup of beer on top of my pedal board, causing a puddle of beer to gather on the top of the GR-30 (it's shaped just like a tray, and it was full of beer). I cringed as I watched the beer quickly drain down into the GR-30! Ahhhhhhh, I felt like I was watching it slowly die.
Next day, I plug it in, yup....it's dead. Nothing happens.
I pulled it apart, found out it was a giant PCB with knobs and buttons attached that simply poked through the case. The whole inside stunk like day-old beer and it was sticky all over. So, I took the PCB outside, literally hosed it off with water and left it in the sun to dry. Came back later and found some sticky spots of beer residue, washed them off with a damp rag, let it dry for another day.
Next day, I plug in the PCB (still not in it's plastic case) and it comes on! It seems to work!!!
I put it back together and it never gave me any more trouble....I think it worked better than before - haha!
Pic below of the unit I had
-
Dante,
It sounds like you converted it from a work horse to party animal! You should have kept it at that point. :lol:
I know what you mean, and it's true, you do have to change the way you work the synth for certain instruments. I knew that going in. I'll figure out how to do what I need to get the textures I want.
The GP-10 has a harmonica in it. I don't have a use for it just yet, but I'm just getting into it. So far, some of the useful non-guitar sounds in it are Synth Bass, Dual Sync, GR-300, (which you can play chords with), Sequencer Tap & Hold, Synth Pedal Blend, Clean Bass, Slow Pad Filter, Hyper Wah, Synched Sequencer, Oscillating Crystal, Crystal Bell, Soft Brass, Chorus Strings, Synth Mix Solo, Strings, Expression Pedal Follower, Rotary Crystal, Fretless Bass, and the Heavy Funk Drive.
Three of these I listed have modeled guitar mixed in with the synth effects, and several of the others I didn't mention also have that, but the synth sounds are so far in the background, you barely hear it. In most cases, I'm not interested in the modeled guitars it offers. Then this also offers a wide variety of guitar oriented effects, but half of them don't use your actual guitar pickups. There are some patches that do use your guitar and you can set up your effects chain the way you want it, (I think), so that could be useful for using this as a stand alone fly rig.
Overall, if I had to rate this pedal at this early stage, I would say there's about 40% of the things I hear that I can actually use as a guitar player. If I have a gig where I can't use an amp, and have to go into the mixing desk, this could be a very good tool for that if I edit it correctly. As a fly rig, If I go to Best Buys, and get a small zipper case for it and its cables, I can put it in the glove box of my car or truck, and go. That's pretty cool.
So far, that's all I can say at the moment. I've been having fun with it though. The manual is rather brief on each topic, but it may be enough to guide me through it. I'm counting on my experience with multiple signal processors to be able to figure out editing parameters in this. I'll be posting more on this GP-10 as I gain a bit more experience with it.
When I get any of the other Roland guitar synth modules, I'll probably post them in this thread rather than start a new one.
-
Okay, an update on this set up so far.
I've been doing a lot of experimenting with this GP-10 and trying different ways of combining guitar and synth sounds. I'm really not too impressed with just going with the 13-pin connection.
It seems the best sonic blends I'm getting are using the guitar jack to a dedicated amp, and the synth effects into its own system. This means a separate stereo amp and speakers for the GP-10, with the blend switch on the guitar set to synth only. You can use the "both" position on this switch, but I find that the V-guitar tones will often drown out the synth tones behind it. Plus, when you mix that V-guitar with your guitar tones coming from your amp, it sounds weird. This isn't really going to cut it IMHO as far as a fly rig goes. Apparently, I'd need to bring an extra power amp and speakers for the synth sounds. That's the kind of rig I expect to use with the GR-55.
As a straight up effects pedal, bypassing any synth effects, it gives you the Boss quality type of effects you'd expect. Not bad, but nothing spectacular. For that matter, I could run it through the effects loop of my rigs. I haven't tried that yet, but that's next.
-
Hey Harley, very interesting journey. BTW I'm also a big Steve Stevens fan.
-
Richard,
It's interesting to see if it lives up to the hype. I'm also a fan of Jeff "Skunk" Baxter, who uses one of these for session work. He claims he just takes this and his guitar and plugs into the desk with it. I can see that with an engineer working you into a mix. I'm not really convinced at this point it would work beyond a certain point as a live fly rig.
-
Y'know, the last time I was in the studio (who knows, maybe the last time I'll record), it took a good half hour to dial in our other guitarists' Line6 pedal board that he runs directly into the PA. It took 2 minutes to dial in my Peavey Classic 20mh.
20 watts of fury beats 128 patches of modeling
-
Hey Harley, well it would be great if you can tune it to do both, it's allot of sound(s) in a small and light box.
-
Y'know, the last time I was in the studio (who knows, maybe the last time I'll record), it took a good half hour to dial in our other guitarists' Line6 pedal board that he runs directly into the PA. It took 2 minutes to dial in my Peavey Classic 20mh.
20 watts of fury beats 128 patches of modeling
Nothing beats real amplifiers. That was never in question. The real question with this particular pedal was would it be good enough to gig without an amp? So far, I'm not hearing it that way.
-
Hey Harley, well it would be great if you can tune it to do both, it's allot of sound(s) in a small and light box.
Richard, I can have it do both, I just need to use a real amp with the guitar part of the overall sound. There are still a few other cabling ideas I want to try though. I want to try this in a 4CM set up, then there is the option of trying it in the loop for the effects only, (not including the synth portions of the sound). It's kind of a neat thing to mess around with at home, but I still need to take a deep dive into the editing and see what I can do with it.
-
Hey Harley, an option for using it in a loop would be combine it with your MP-2. As the MP-2 stereo parallel loop is just before the cab sim outs, it's very similar (if not slightly better for recording) to a standard 4CM. But then you have other rack FX you can use that way :dunno: .
I saw some soft rack thingys a while ago and thought about a 2 RU with MP-2 plus rack FX unit. Then you just need either a stereo amp set up for live or plug cab sim outs into a desk (or both). A bit bigger and heavier than where you are going with the GP-10, MP-2s have a bit of weight to them, but with a shoulder strap it would be like a big laptop and be carry on on a plane. Although you'd still need a lead bag or some such for the midi pedal etc.
The last session I did I just took my 4 RU MP-2 rack (MP-2, Midiverb 4 (in MP-2 loop) and B200s). I didn't need the power amp and just went into the desk with the cab sim XLR outs. I also have a small suit case thingy (like every one uses on planes) for my MXC, expression pedal and leads. I even manage to fit one of those small folding guitar stands in it.
It will be interesting to see how you go when you deep dive into the editing. From the review I watched, his main apprehension for using The GP-10 live was it has no banks and you can only go up or down with the patch selection.
-
Richard,
I went to the Roland/Boss site to try to get some more info on the effects that are in this pedal, specifically, I'm looking for some kind of chart or table that tells you what kind of effect it is and what kind of parameters I can edit. There is nothing apart from the very brief and nearly useless info in the owner's manual. When I try to do a search on the site for info on the GP-10, it says "No Data Available.
That's very odd for a pedal still in production IMHO. :dunno:
-
Hey Harley, that's really disappointing, I'd expect better from Roland. Although it seems to be a trend over the years with most things.
I expect the best way would be to download the BOSS Tone Studio driver (https://www.boss.info/global/support/by_product/gp-10/updates_drivers/ (https://www.boss.info/global/support/by_product/gp-10/updates_drivers/)) and the corresponding manual for it (https://static.roland.com/assets/media/pdf/BTS_GP-10_e03_W.pdf). The Tone Studio manual seems to detail the FX etc. with lots of pics. And IIRC the review I watched said it was the best way to access everything, also to set up Live Sets, groups of patches. I was going to attach the manual but it's over 6MB (lots of colour pics in it) however the 2nd link above takes you straight there. What was a bit confusing (at first) is the alphabetic listings for the various bits and pieces isn't alphabetic within each letter group, i.e. under G the GP-10 is toward the top of the listing, not down lower near or just before the GT-x listings (which you might expect :dunno: ).
-
Richard,
I've just been going through some of the effects in it on my own. As I spend a bit more time with it and get deeper into it, I'll probably figure out what I need to do.
I'm just getting into it and tweaking things. If I don't like what I'm hearing, I'll exit it and start over.
-
I went to the Roland/Boss site to try to get some more info on the effects that are in this pedal, specifically, I'm looking for some kind of chart or table that tells you what kind of effect it is and what kind of parameters I can edit.
Hey Harley, I think you'll find some of what you are looking for in this (https://static.roland.com/assets/media/pdf/BTS_GP-10_e03_W.pdf (https://static.roland.com/assets/media/pdf/BTS_GP-10_e03_W.pdf)) And I'd proffer, even if you didn't want to connect the GP-10 to your PC (via USB) it wood be worth downloading and installing the Tone Studio driver, as then you can go through each FX and see what parameters are available. The download is free.
-
Richard,
I have the download already, I just need to install it in my desktop. It's on my old laptop at the moment.
The guitar effects are pretty standard, and typical Boss quality. When I got the pedal, I downloaded everything. I'll get into that soon enough.
Yesterday, I put away the CG-1 Strat and plugged in my Elite Strat. I'm just using the guitar effects for right now to how well I can tweak those. I hit one of the factory presets, "CLEAN 2" and did a little tweaking with that and started playing Bryan Adams "Run To You." The tone, the vibe, the feel and everything else was spot on! I had the period correct guitar, (that one has a vibe like no other guitar I own) and had a blast just playing it though my interface. If I plug that into my two SF Twins, I'll wake up the whole Boulevard.
I'll get into the deep editing more when I'm not having so much fun just wailing away through it. I can see this GP-10 as a possible multi-effects pedal a little more now. I think maybe I should set up some guitar tones and effects that are more pleasing to my ears first, then see how I can embellish those with some synth tones. Most of the factory settings aren't really that good.
I have to admit, starting out with a really good guitar goes a long way to navigating an unknown piece of gear like this. :thumb-up:
-
Hey Harley, (I think maybe I should set up some guitar tones and effects that are more pleasing to my ears first, then see how I can embellish those with some synth tones.) that sounds like a really good approach :thumb-up: . And maybe try your MP-2 with the GP-10 in the stereo loop and cab sim outs into your interface :metal: . Anyway, glad to hear you are having fun :whoohoo!: .
-
Run To You: That is a CLASSIC Strat single coil tone! I used to play that all the time in the 80s with my Ibanez Roadstar II, which had some very nice single coil tones, but the action was higher than a redwood (I didn't know anything about setting up a guitar at the time)
I think you're right by starting with the best guitar voice, then adding effects to suit your taste. :thumb-up:
-
Richard,
Actually, I think running it into the effects loop of any of the preamps might not be such a good idea, (at least for the synth sounds). If I use it just as a guitar processor for effects, that might be okay, but it doesn't have the outputs to separate them. It would sound better if I sent those outputs directly to its own power amp and cabs. The GP-10 has a guitar input and guitar output, then it has a left (mono) and right output that combines the guitar and synth tones in it. If I use any kind of preamp at all with the combined tones, I think a channel strip on a mixing desk would be the way to go. Any of the ADA preamps would be too powerful and probably not sound too good. I might give it a go just to try it, but honestly, I'm not optimistic.
I didn't buy this pedal to use it with any existing amp set up originally, I wanted to see if it would work as a stand-alone amp-less fly rig. I'm just trying to figure out which set up will work best for me. For me, tone is everything. I just have to figure out the right way to edit this to get the best sounds out of it. I'll admit though, having all these options can be a little distracting.
-
Dante,
Yeah, Run To You has a very definite single coil sound to it, but it's combined with a chorus and slight slap back delay and reverb. The chorus in the GP-10 was a little slow, but it was better when I sped up the rate a little, and it nailed that tone with my Elite.
That Roadstar II is a pretty good quality guitar, highly underrated at the time. That was before Ibanez got endorsements from some high profile players I guess. The CG-1 still has the stock pickups in it, and they're not even Fender pickups. I think they are Roland single coils with ceramic magnets, and the guitar isn't set up either, so the action is much higher than my Fender guitars.
I'm going to wait until I have all the hardware and pickups to install in it before I set it up. It's going to be a little tricky as I will have to set the string radius according to the curve of the hexaphonic pickup instead of the fretboard radius. Then I have to set the sensitivity for each string on that pickup. (This is the guitar I want to use the Vega-trem on with a LSR roller nut and locking tuners). I may even have my local luthier shave the neck into a "v" profile. As for the pickups, I'm trying to decide if I want to go with the Zexcoil hybrid set or one of the single coil sets. I think I'll go with the hybrid set and use a push-push volume pot to tap into single coil mode. I like versatility in my guitars.
Out of all my guitars, I really like the Elite more than the others. Don't get me wrong, they all sound very good and have a different character that is unique to each one, and I can't get any one of them to sound like the other ones, even my two "stock" Strats are noticeably different. I suppose if I found a set of Strat pickups from the early 80s, I could make my '57 RI sound close, but I like the vintage 60s pickups that are in it now. It'll take some time, but I'll eventually play all my guitars through this pedal and see what it does with each one.
-
Hey Harley, quite a journey :thumb-up: . When I mentioned using the GP-10 in the loop it was in response to you saying you wanted to just try the FX on their own (no synth mixed in), and it struck me as a good way to get great guitar tones (MP-2) and see how the FX compare with your rack FX. Also good for recording as the cab sim outs on the MP-2 do a very reasonable job, they are also very useful if you wanted to use full range monitors or do a direct desk feed.
But obviously, if you are to use it as a nice small fly away rig, you need to get the guitar tones humming and then add stuff to that. From what you've said/experienced so far, it would seem you need to do a hybrid setup, guitar into one amp, synth stuff etc. into its own dedicated amp(s). BTW how does it do guitar sounds? are they modelled?
-
Richard.
First let me say this so there is no confusion, the effects in the GP-10 are typical Boss pedal effects quality. I wouldn't waste time doing A/B comparisons with my rack gear because it's not even close. Think of comparing a Boss pedal like the CE-2 with the chorus in your MP-2. Are they close? Not even in a thunderstorm.
This does do some modelled guitar sounds with certain synth combinations as I mentioned earlier, and these guitar tones actually get in the way of the overall sound when I have my actual guitar tone mixed in, or split to a separate amp. I'll need to edit that out. The reason being is because with the modelled guitar tones it's set to one sound, one pickup, one voice. Switching pickups on my guitar does not change the sound of the modelled guitar. I suppose in a limited number of situations that might be a good thing, but for the most part, it gets in the way. These guitar sounds only come into play when I have the 13-pin din cable connected.
I would need to use the 13-pin cable if I wanted to do alternate tunings, or simulated capo tunings and then the guitar works like a normal guitar, meaning it isn't modelled, just processed. Listening to it by itself, I can hear a bit of a difference from the original guitar tone, but in a live mix, I think that would be hidden a bit more.
Speaking of a journey, last night I was trying a couple more guitars in the GP-10. I tried the seafoam green one in it, and it definitely comes through with it's own personality. That one is a perfect guitar if you want to cop SRV or Eric Johnson tones. Definitely a Texas Blues guitar, so that didn't last too long. Then I picked out my 1983 '57 RI Strat and took that for a ride, and I think I'm the one who went on a ride instead...right back down to the early eighties again and this time I was having a blast playing I Want A New Drug, and Working For a Living by Huey Lewis and the News. I was in the "Crunch 2" preset with the boost and chorus w/delay effect added and I was nailing those tones to the wall! That was so much fun because I haven't played those songs since 1986. I think both of my 1983 Fender guitars might be the best ones out of all of them. The crunch tone was definitely there, but with a lot of clarity and articulation. This tells me that there a lot of possibilities with this pedal to get some really useful live tones. It has good clean tones, and it has good crunch and distortion tones, so that's a start.
As we both said, I may not be able to get away from the hybrid rig concept to get good articulation between the guitar and synth tones. That could happen with a very small rack that has an extra power amp and one of my Rane SM-26 mixers in it. Send two feeds to the guitar cabs and two feeds to the synth cabs with level and panning control for each. Oh well...there went the fly rig idea :facepalm: