ADA Depot - A Forum To Support Users of ADA Amplification Gear

ADA Preamps => Original MP-1 => Topic started by: Pedro on November 24, 2020, 04:50:52 PM

Title: ADA MP-1 Preamp Tube Comparison
Post by: Pedro on November 24, 2020, 04:50:52 PM
Hi Guys,

My MP-1 just got some TLC from MJMP, and I am still getting to know it. (Thank you so much MJMP!!!!)
I have a few issues, first of all i found some settings of Nuno Bettencourt III Sides Tour [ http://adadepot.com/mods/Nuno1993.jpg (http://adadepot.com/mods/Nuno1993.jpg)] and that setting in my MP-1 seems not in the "Hard Rock" territory but more Blues, or "just after break up" area.
I need to have the OD1 and OD2 both above 7.5-8 in order to have a proper hard rock guitar overdrive tone.
I tested with different preamp tubes and you can see that in a video I made - https://youtu.be/4KmppuJAzT0 (https://youtu.be/4KmppuJAzT0).

Does your MP-1 behaves similarly or not? Can you share your experience when comparing with the video I shared?

Thanks,
Pedro
Title: Re: ADA MP-1 Preamp Tube Comparison
Post by: rnolan on November 25, 2020, 12:29:16 AM
Hey Pedro, To me you should have allot more gain at those settings  :dunno: , you may need to tweak the OD1 and OD2 trim pots? they control the gain in the OD1 and OD2 circuits.
In this post are the MP-1 patches I used to use when I used a MP-1 (http://adadepot.com/index.php?topic=754.0) and I had lots more gain than you seem to be getting some audio clips here (http://adadepot.com/index.php?topic=1090.0) albeit more blues rock I spose.
Another trick worth trying is using the chorus with the rate set to 0 and depth 100, in stereo this adds a short fattening delay (not that this will solve the gain issue).
Tubewise in my MP-1 days I used the original tubes (chinese) for along time then put in a pair of Boogie SPAX7s (rebranded high gain JJs) which also worked well.
Title: Re: ADA MP-1 Preamp Tube Comparison
Post by: Pedro on November 25, 2020, 11:16:01 AM
Hi rnolan,

Indeed I am suspicious something is not working properly in my MP-1. Clearly some issue with the gain. Not sure if the trimpots are safe to play around with.
I have seen that some post advising to not mess around with some, according to MJMP. http://adadepot.com/index.php?topic=489.0
I have to study the problem a bit better. I dont have a "real" scope as well, I have just one of those chinese limited scopes. Will check with MJMP to see what I can do on my own.
Thanks for giving me the confidence that something is not right.
 
 :thumb-up:
Title: Re: ADA MP-1 Preamp Tube Comparison
Post by: Iperfungus on November 25, 2020, 04:40:00 PM
Hi Pedro,

If MJMP putted his holy hands inside your MP1, I bet there's no issue there.
Usually, he also fine tunes internal trimpots for correct gain...but, unless you installed a MDRT transformer (in that case, OD1 and OD2 trimpots are set to minimum and there's a lot of gain, trust me....), you can easily identify trimpots and increase the gain on your taste.
Just remember that also noise level will be increased accordingly.

About Nuno's settings on his MP1 (Pornograffiti era, since on III Sides he used a Soldano SLO100 Head and a wah pedal...and that's it, as far as I remember), if you set your ADA that way....most of the times it's a big delusion.
Why?
Well....that's because Michael Wagener used a lot of other stuff with that ADA MP1 in the studio.  :lol:
Have a look to this video...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wOfbFyhgZFM

I tested those settings many times with my MP1 and the sound it's far away from Nuno's tone until I increase the gain and reshape the eq.
No way.
With those settings, the MP1 is more in the blues territory, as you wrote.
But, if you watch the video I posted above (pause it at 5:04...), you'll find original M.W.'s studio settings for MP1 (patch #45!)...
Have a look to THOSE settings and continue reading...

I watched your video: tons of gain, lots of bass....but...no mids, flat high and low presence.  :nono:
Use more mids, high and presence and you'll see....you'll have to lower OD1 and OD2 for sure.  :lol:

Last but not least, on MP1 not only OD1 and OD2 controls influence the overall gain and tone: depending on the eq settings, you could have to tweak the Master Gain and/or the ouput level pot on the front panel to send a strong and rich signal to outputs.
And then the overall tone also depends on power amp and speakers and all the other stuff in between, of course: there are a Quadraverb GT, a BBE362 Maximizer, a Rocktron Intellifex, a Tube Advance TA '70 tube power amp and a 2x12 Blackstar Celestion loaded stereo cabinet between my MP1 and my ears!  :lol:
See the picture, if you don't trust me...  :lol: :lol: :lol:

I've to agree with Richard, anyway: with OD1 and OD2 at 7.0/8.0, the MP1 delivers tons of gain (I use a couple of Ruby selected JJs there, as suggested by MJMP....and wow....).
My tipical rock/hard rock patch is:

OD1 = OD2 = 5.0/5.5
Master Gain = 5.5/6.0
Bass: 9
Mid: 6
Treble: 6
Presence: 12

With those settings and humbuckers pickups, I've a very nice overdriven hard rock tone with enough gain for heavy rhythm, riffing and lead.

Push OD1 and OD2 to 7.0 and set Master Gain to 5.5 and you're in metal territory!
Many people kills MP1's tone with wrong eq settings, imho.
Set eq properly and MP1 will come to life, with a very organic, full, open (=not boxy) and plexi-on-steroids sound.

Factory patch #1 it's a very good starting point to create a good hard rock tone.
Have fun!

PS. those Bugera tubes suck!!!  :lol: The best in the video is the TAD 12AX7A-C: put a couple of those in your MP1!
You can also couple the TAD in V2 with this in V1: https://www.banzaimusic.com/Ruby-Tubes-12AX7AC5-HG-PLUS.html
Or put a couple of these in V1 and V2:

https://www.banzaimusic.com/Ruby-Tubes-12AX7ACZ-H.G.-PLUS.html


Title: Re: ADA MP-1 Preamp Tube Comparison
Post by: Iperfungus on November 26, 2020, 02:52:24 PM
Another interesting setting I tested today:

OD1 = OD2 = Master Gain = 6.0
Bass = 9
Mid = 6
High = 6
Presence = 12

Plenty of gain and sustain.
Title: Re: ADA MP-1 Preamp Tube Comparison
Post by: Pedro on November 27, 2020, 02:38:16 PM
Hi Iperfungus,

Thank you for the detailed de-construction of my arguments. I admit I am still very new to the MP-1 and still exploring the new "universe". I am also very thankful to MJMP who gave some TLC to my unit, was in pretty bad shape as he can confirm, some guy changed a lot of things and MJMP put it back to stock with the obvious Mods to improve the unit!! He is a top dude!!
I must say as well that even though I still think some gain is missing at 4-5 OD levels, there is more than enough drive in it for my needs.

I was even testing it with my highest output Guitar, with Duncan Distortion with 16.8k.
My power amp currently is a VHT 2502. I have also a SLO-100 so I will test the ADA going to the Soldano Power Amp, even though that fx loop is a bit strange for these kind of usage.
I also have a BBE422A, and that unit tightens up the bass of the MP-1 a lot. Really goes well with it.
But indeed i need to expore boosting the other frequencies. I am in general a high mid frequency user, I am into hard rock.

I will investigate further and maybe boost a bit the signal at entry of the MP-1 to see the possibilities.
I will order a few tubes as well, to assess the differences. Will let you guys know how my journey proceeds!!!

Thanks for the help!!
Title: Re: ADA MP-1 Preamp Tube Comparison
Post by: Iperfungus on November 30, 2020, 04:02:32 AM
Hi Iperfungus,

Thank you for the detailed de-construction of my arguments. I admit I am still very new to the MP-1 and still exploring the new "universe". I am also very thankful to MJMP who gave some TLC to my unit, was in pretty bad shape as he can confirm, some guy changed a lot of things and MJMP put it back to stock with the obvious Mods to improve the unit!! He is a top dude!!
I must say as well that even though I still think some gain is missing at 4-5 OD levels, there is more than enough drive in it for my needs.

I was even testing it with my highest output Guitar, with Duncan Distortion with 16.8k.
My power amp currently is a VHT 2502. I have also a SLO-100 so I will test the ADA going to the Soldano Power Amp, even though that fx loop is a bit strange for these kind of usage.
I also have a BBE422A, and that unit tightens up the bass of the MP-1 a lot. Really goes well with it.
But indeed i need to expore boosting the other frequencies. I am in general a high mid frequency user, I am into hard rock.

I will investigate further and maybe boost a bit the signal at entry of the MP-1 to see the possibilities.
I will order a few tubes as well, to assess the differences. Will let you guys know how my journey proceeds!!!

Thanks for the help!!

SLO100.....  :bow:
I purchased a Soldano Astroverb 16 combo 3 days ago....what a little beast!
It's the crunch channel of the SLO with a 20W EL84 power amp, basically.
In a 1x12 box, Custom Eminence speaker loaded.

About the MP1's gain, you can attempt to slightly adjust it with internal OD1 and OD2 trimpots: it cannot do any damage.
Just take note of original/current positions, before moving them...in case you would go back to original/previous settings.
You can also find here a picture where internal trimpots are identified, so that you would not mess with chorus or SS alignment trimpots.

http://adadepot.com/index.php?topic=489.0

Have fun with your tube companions!
I bet that MJMP (yes, Phil is a top dude!) didn't left anything wrong inside your MP1, as he reversed it to stock plus mods.
The VHT is a great power amp too.
Title: Re: ADA MP-1 Preamp Tube Comparison
Post by: Iperfungus on December 18, 2020, 04:02:34 PM
One further consideration: which guitar and which pickups are you using?
This can significantly affect the gain amount and the final sound.
Title: Re: ADA MP-1 Preamp Tube Comparison
Post by: Dante on December 19, 2020, 10:21:23 AM
20W EL84 power amp, basically.

Sounds like my badass little Peavey Classic 20mh  :thumb-up:

that thing is 20 watts of FURY
Title: Re: ADA MP-1 Preamp Tube Comparison
Post by: Chip Roberts on January 12, 2021, 09:13:04 AM
I just grabbed another MP1 from a fellow in Portland, Oregon; took a day trip down with the girlfriend to get out of the apartment. 

The unit is in GREAT condition, but had a pair of EHX 12AX7E-H.  I plugged it in last night, dialed the same settings as my other MP1 (with JJs) and the tone SUCKED.   No harmonics, no hair, no bite, so I ordered a pair of TAD 12AX7A-Cs and am VERY excited to hear how they sound.  I've liked the JJs, and they definitely offer higher saturation than the GTs I had in their before, but from what I understand the TADs are supposed to be closer to the original Chinese tubes?
Title: Re: ADA MP-1 Preamp Tube Comparison
Post by: Iperfungus on January 12, 2021, 09:32:31 AM
I just grabbed another MP1 from a fellow in Portland, Oregon; took a day trip down with the girlfriend to get out of the apartment. 

The unit is in GREAT condition, but had a pair of EHX 12AX7E-H.  I plugged it in last night, dialed the same settings as my other MP1 (with JJs) and the tone SUCKED.   No harmonics, no hair, no bite, so I ordered a pair of TAD 12AX7A-Cs and am VERY excited to hear how they sound.  I've liked the JJs, and they definitely offer higher saturation than the GTs I had in their before, but from what I understand the TADs are supposed to be closer to the original Chinese tubes?

I tried different tubes in my MP-1 and I really love it with the Ruby selected JJs that are currently installed.
I loved it with 7025 Groove Tubes and 12AX7/ECC83 Ei tubes as well.
I've a TAD 12AX7A-C and I tested it in the MP-1 coupled with another Ruby selected 12AX7 tube (12AX7AC5-HG-PLUS, not a JJ), but I don't remember if this combination compares to original chinese 12AX7-A tubes...but, since I still have the original chinese tubes (kept in a safe place  :lol: 'cause those are excellent tubes), one of these days I should give them another try.
Anyway, the TAD tubes you bought are an excellent choice as well!
Title: Re: ADA MP-1 Preamp Tube Comparison
Post by: Chip Roberts on January 12, 2021, 09:40:15 AM
The best pair I've had so far, since this is my third MP1, was a pair of Jackson tubes taken out of a JX3 preamp.  I dropped the MP1, so it went to rack heaven, but I think that's still sitting in the back of the repair shop for spare parts, so I could probably get those back, if I wanted  ???
Title: Re: ADA MP-1 Preamp Tube Comparison
Post by: Iperfungus on January 12, 2021, 03:38:28 PM
The best pair I've had so far, since this is my third MP1, was a pair of Jackson tubes taken out of a JX3 preamp.  I dropped the MP1, so it went to rack heaven, but I think that's still sitting in the back of the repair shop for spare parts, so I could probably get those back, if I wanted  ???

Chinese tubes, most probably.
Like Marshall or Mesa tubes: rebranded chinese tubes.
Title: Re: ADA MP-1 Preamp Tube Comparison
Post by: rnolan on January 12, 2021, 09:34:43 PM
My 2 MP-1s are still with my tech, trying to get at least one of the working properly.  Last test the midi patch changing wasn't working properly (in the better unit).  We did a tube change as well and the Mullard long plates (my fav for MP-2) sounded really good in it, surprised my tech how much difference they made.
Title: Re: ADA MP-1 Preamp Tube Comparison
Post by: Iperfungus on January 13, 2021, 05:29:43 AM
We did a tube change as well and the Mullard long plates (my fav for MP-2) sounded really good in it, surprised my tech how much difference they made.

Hey Rich!

Those Mullard tubes are NOS or reissue tubes from current production?
Title: Re: ADA MP-1 Preamp Tube Comparison
Post by: MarshallJMP on January 13, 2021, 12:14:47 PM
I dropped the MP1, so it went to rack heaven, but I think that's still sitting in the back of the repair shop for spare parts, so I could probably get those back, if I wanted  ???

Was the MP-1 so badly damaged ?
Title: Re: ADA MP-1 Preamp Tube Comparison
Post by: rnolan on January 13, 2021, 10:28:53 PM
Hey Max, I've been using the New Sensor re-issue Russian tubes, cost around $25 AUD.  They also do a short plate version, MikeB uses a Boogie SPAX7 and a Mullard short plate in his MP-1.  I like the long plates as they are very "3D" compared to other tubes I've tried.
Title: Re: ADA MP-1 Preamp Tube Comparison
Post by: Iperfungus on January 14, 2021, 12:01:01 AM
Hey Max, I've been using the New Sensor re-issue Russian tubes, cost around $25 AUD.  They also do a short plate version, MikeB uses a Boogie SPAX7 and a Mullard short plate in his MP-1.  I like the long plates as they are very "3D" compared to other tubes I've tried.

Ciao Rich!  :wave:
Yes, I agree about long plates. I tested a pair of long plates Groove Tubes 7025 and a pair of long plates Ei ECC83 in my MP-1 with awesome results.
Then I came back to Ruby's JJs, 'cause those have a killer tone.
But one of these days I should give Mullard LPs a try.
Title: Re: ADA MP-1 Preamp Tube Comparison
Post by: Chip Roberts on January 14, 2021, 08:53:12 AM
I dropped the MP1, so it went to rack heaven, but I think that's still sitting in the back of the repair shop for spare parts, so I could probably get those back, if I wanted  ???

Was the MP-1 so badly damaged ?

So he said, but I'm fairly certain it can be fixed by someone else.  I don't have it in front of me, otherwise I could tell you the error message that popped up.
Title: Re: ADA MP-1 Preamp Tube Comparison
Post by: MarshallJMP on January 14, 2021, 11:02:30 AM
Chip, let me know if I can help out.
Title: Re: ADA MP-1 Preamp Tube Comparison
Post by: Chip Roberts on January 14, 2021, 12:26:49 PM
Chip, let me know if I can help out.

Will do, MJMP!  I just found out my office is still open on January 18th (Martin Luther King Jr. Day here in the States), so that kind of screws with my plans of picking it up from the shop that day  :facepalm:
Title: Re: ADA MP-1 Preamp Tube Comparison
Post by: Chip Roberts on January 19, 2021, 09:22:29 AM
I picked up the crapped out MP1, powered it on, it displays "C" and then cycles through the 128 numeric characters, then pops up Err 1, 2, and 3.
Title: Re: ADA MP-1 Preamp Tube Comparison
Post by: Iperfungus on January 20, 2021, 06:09:15 AM
I picked up the crapped out MP1, powered it on, it displays "C" and then cycles through the 128 numeric characters, then pops up Err 1, 2, and 3.

Dead battery? Or EPROM read?
Title: Re: ADA MP-1 Preamp Tube Comparison
Post by: Chip Roberts on January 20, 2021, 08:40:56 AM
I'm guessing EPROM because it powers on and can recall the factory presets, but it won't save anything.
Title: Re: ADA MP-1 Preamp Tube Comparison
Post by: rnolan on January 20, 2021, 11:34:49 PM
I'm guessing EPROM because it powers on and can recall the factory presets, but it won't save anything.
That's dead battery usually, not EPROM. Factory presets are in the EPROM, saved programs are stored in RAM and kept alive by the battery, when the battery dies, the saved programs are lost  :facepalm: So good to back them up with a sysex dump or write them down (irritating but effective).
Title: Re: ADA MP-1 Preamp Tube Comparison
Post by: Iperfungus on January 21, 2021, 02:25:38 AM
I'm guessing EPROM because it powers on and can recall the factory presets, but it won't save anything.

Dead battery.
It's the RAM (user settings), not the EPROM (factory presets).
Title: Re: ADA MP-1 Preamp Tube Comparison
Post by: Iperfungus on January 21, 2021, 02:26:41 AM
when the battery dies, the saved programs are lost  :facepalm: So good to back them up with a sysex dump or write them down (irritating but effective).

Or have a very good memory!  :lol:
Title: Re: ADA MP-1 Preamp Tube Comparison
Post by: Chip Roberts on January 21, 2021, 10:04:59 AM
It's still cracked open, so I can check to see if the previous owner put an aftermarket battery in there (i.e. solderless).  You're saying if I swap in a new battery, it should go back to normal?
Title: Re: ADA MP-1 Preamp Tube Comparison
Post by: MarshallJMP on January 21, 2021, 01:00:22 PM
Yes it should in 99% of the cases. Do you have sound?