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Author Topic: 7ms delay trick for bigger sound  (Read 4056 times)

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El Chiguete

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7ms delay trick for bigger sound
« on: Time Format »

Like it was mentioned on another thread http://adadepot.com/index.php?topic=1338.msg11736#msg11736 adding 7ms to one side of the stereo image really adds and helps to have a bigger sound not only in the studio but live like Petrucci mentions in that clip. I tried it on a recording and it really made a ton of difference but now I want to talk about using it live. If you wanted to add this to one of your stereo outputs how would you do it? I meen you allready have your pedalboard or rack setup but just want to add that, what would you buy to do it? Buying an entire unit just for this would be an overkill so It would be really nice to find a small, even add on gear, that you can hook it up to the connection lines to do this. Any thoughts or ideas?
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rnolan

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Re: 7ms delay trick for bigger sound
« Reply #1 on: Time Format »

While it's not quite the same try various depth setting on your MP1 chorus with the rate 0.0, I used to use a depth of 100 and it gave a good sound.
With a desk involved you could insert a delay on one channel and turn its mix to full wet.
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rabidgerry

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Re: 7ms delay trick for bigger sound
« Reply #2 on: Time Format »

uh not true (in regards to buying a seperate piece of gear to achieve the effect live)

I bought a unit just for this and I don't see it as overkill.

BTW this is pointless effect if you have two guitars in your band however its great for a one guitar band.  In saying this I had an argument with a Belgian sound man down in Dublin just before Christmas as he said to me putting the sound with a delay on one side made it out of phase and suggested that it was bad.  I said no it's good, just pan the signals left and right please.  f**king asshole!

Ok for me there is no set time.  It depends on the room, and the width of the stage you are playing on.  I used 10ms the other day in my rehearsal room and that seemed to wide for where I was standing so it depends.

Petrucci might use 7ms but that's just his personal choice.  The actual range is between 10ms and 30ms

I mentioned this before El, you should read it. 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Precedence_effect

I have a few ways I can do this.

A) Ask the sound man to place a 10-30ms delay on one side of my guitar channels
B) Use my Art delay to place a 10-30ms delay on one channel  (this is the unit I bought specifically for this job)
C) Use my Boss GT5 to place a 10-30ms delay on one channel 
D) Use my Boss GT5 to use the stereo Chorus to create a doubling effect which is basically doing the same thing as Haas only sounds a tiny bit more juicey   :banana-brian:

note: I do not like to use the boss to create the effect as it uses up the delay block on the unit and I ike to keep that free generally, juts in case I see fit to use a regular delay style effect on something


Actually Richard in regards to the Belgian sound guy arguing with me I need to ask you something about what he said to me, stand by!
« Last Edit: Time Format by rabidgerry »
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Systematic Chaos

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Re: 7ms delay trick for bigger sound
« Reply #3 on: Time Format »

Hey EC,
Just use my MPX-G2 preset #252 I've sent you...that Delay is already programmed in there ;)  you just need to adjust the dry/wet ratio to your likings
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El Chiguete

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Re: 7ms delay trick for bigger sound
« Reply #4 on: Time Format »

I have a few ways I can do this.

A) Ask the sound man to place a 10-30ms delay on one side of my guitar channels
B) Use my Art delay to place a 10-30ms delay on one channel  (this is the unit I bought specifically for this job)
C) Use my Boss GT5 to place a 10-30ms delay on one channel 
D) Use my Boss GT5 to use the stereo Chorus to create a doubling effect which is basically doing the same thing as Haas only sounds a tiny bit more juicey   :banana-brian:

note: I do not like to use the boss to create the effect as it uses up the delay block on the unit and I ike to keep that free generally, juts in case I see fit to use a regular delay style effect on something

The reason I want to have everything set up by myself is to not having and idiot sound guy f*cked up my sound jeje so option A is no good lol.

Also the same reason why you dont want to use your Boss effect is the same one I want to get a separate unit for this.
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El Chiguete

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Re: 7ms delay trick for bigger sound
« Reply #5 on: Time Format »

Hey EC,
Just use my MPX-G2 preset #252 I've sent you...that Delay is already programmed in there ;)  you just need to adjust the dry/wet ratio to your likings

Yep I need to upload all of them again.
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Lexicon MPX-G2
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rabidgerry

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Re: 7ms delay trick for bigger sound
« Reply #6 on: Time Format »

I have a few ways I can do this.

A) Ask the sound man to place a 10-30ms delay on one side of my guitar channels
B) Use my Art delay to place a 10-30ms delay on one channel  (this is the unit I bought specifically for this job)
C) Use my Boss GT5 to place a 10-30ms delay on one channel 
D) Use my Boss GT5 to use the stereo Chorus to create a doubling effect which is basically doing the same thing as Haas only sounds a tiny bit more juicey   :banana-brian:

note: I do not like to use the boss to create the effect as it uses up the delay block on the unit and I ike to keep that free generally, juts in case I see fit to use a regular delay style effect on something

The reason I want to have everything set up by myself is to not having and idiot sound guy f*cked up my sound jeje so option A is no good lol.

Also the same reason why you dont want to use your Boss effect is the same one I want to get a separate unit for this.

Yeah sure, but I didn't say don't get a seperate unit for this purpose.  You said it was overkill????

The easiest option is the sound man, but he would need to have a desk that allows him to do this.  He wont ruin your sound by adding a delay on one channel, not unless you let him do something stupid.

Anyways you want something small, like a pedal that does the job?  I never found a unit that did it.  I tried the boss DD7 and a few other stereo pedals, nux stereo delay.  Some of the pedals can't get a small enough delay 30ms being their lowest setting.  Or else they don't not allow to extract the direct signal, which meant you always have the direct signal mixing with the delay signal on one channel which is not what you want.  You want one channel going through some sort of unit that delays it mean while the other channel is going straight to an amp.

I use this old ART delay unit and pick a preset on it.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ART-425-DXR-Stereo-Delay-Effects-Processor-Chorus-Flange-Vintage-Rack-/170956214026


Do you use a stereo amp El?  You would need to if you are trying to achieve this effect, or else two amps one either side of the stage.
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"whadda ya want? we want Heavy Metal"

Guitars:1986 Westone Dimension IV, 1989 Korean Squier Fat Strat Silver Series, 1998 Korean Squier Fat Strat, MIM Fender Fat Strat - FR, Squier Stagemaster Deluxe - Thru Neck x 2, Squier Stagemaster 22 Fret - 1st Gen, 1999 Squier Showmaster - Anniversary Edition, Squier Showmaster, Tokai FV40 Flying V

Effects:  Ada Mp1, Peavey Rockmaster, Boss GT5 * Amps:   Rocktron Velocity 300 - Harley Benton GPA400
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Zilthy

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Re: 7ms delay trick for bigger sound
« Reply #7 on: Time Format »

Another thing you can do going with around the 10ms delay is add a 1 or 2 cent pitch shift to the delayed signal, makes a very lush chorus type sound.  I tend to prefer doing that over using an actual chorus which modulates the pitch.
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