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Author Topic: maybe looking for new audio interface  (Read 38258 times)

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MarshallJMP

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Re: maybe looking for new audio interface
« Reply #45 on: Time Format »

I have a focusrite oktopre MKII and I really like it.Took a look at the specs and stuff,looks like a good soundcard with lots of input (even ADAT but only for ins), a bit limited on outs but still ok.The only downside for me is the pro tools bundle that can only handle 16 tracks.(which I find a bit low).
The 18i20 is also very nice.
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rnolan

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Re: maybe looking for new audio interface
« Reply #46 on: Time Format »

Hey Harley, I had a quick look around recently also, as you say the choices are a bit overwhelming.  The Focusrite stuff looks pretty good.  Seems the Protools bundle is there to suck you in to buy the full package given it's a limited (16 track) version  :dunno: :crazy: .  It would be fine for small jobs where you don't need many tracks or want to use many outboard effects as it's only got 4 analogue outs.  Also, like many USB offerings it's only USB 2.0.  I couldn't find many that were USB 3.0, which seems surprising these days...

The 18i20 seems the go but again only USB 2.0
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Harley Hexxe

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Re: maybe looking for new audio interface
« Reply #47 on: Time Format »

Hey MJMP and Richard,

     Yes, I did look at the 18i20 too and that also has the same version of Pro Tools included with it. I know they are limited and only there as a teaser for you to buy the full software bundles. It's the same with the Ableton Lite Live. Since I've never used pro Tools it would be a learning curve. No matter which audio interface I would choose, all of them come with limited DAW's, so I would still have to upgrade that part of it.
     I'm only looking to track one instrument at a time in my home studio, so that brings up the question: Do I really need the 18i20 instead of the 18i8?

       Harley 8)

   After looking again, the 18i20 has 10 analog outputs. The rest of the outs are S/PDIF and ADAT. The only thing that is an advantage there is that the 18i20 is expandable, so if I need more inputs, the Octopre MKII would supply them. I suppose where my confusion lies is in the fact that earlier in this thread, MJMP stated that the Steinberg UR44 would have suited my needs here, which is why I was looking at the 18i8. It's about the same, but only the software is different. My thinking is that I should probably learn Pro Tools since that would be what is used in most studios if I ever want to take my work to one of them. Then it would be on the same software they are already using. As for USB 2.0 vs. USB 3.0, that really doesn't matter. For digital audio, they both respond exactly the same.
« Last Edit: Time Format by Harley Hexxe »
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MarshallJMP

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Re: maybe looking for new audio interface
« Reply #48 on: Time Format »

The 18i8 can also be expanded but only with 8 inputs, no outs it seems,which I find a bit strange.

Now if you just want to track one instrument at the time,the 18i8 is even overkill.A 2 channel in/out card will be fine (maybe with an added midi in/out) like the 2i2 (no midi but the 2i4 has midi) or the steinberg UR22 which has midi in/out for the same price as the 2i2.Also with the UR22 you get a less stripped down version of cubase 8 (cubase 8 AI) which seems better then the pro tools you get with the focus rite.The cubase has 32 tracks.
More info about the AI   http://www.steinberg.net/en/products/steinberg_yamaha/cubase_ai.html

I have an UR22 and it works very well and isn't expensive,it's in the same price range as the 2i2.

http://www.steinberg.net/en/products/audio_interfaces/ur_series/models/ur22.html
https://us.focusrite.com/usb-audio-interfaces/scarlett-2i2
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Harley Hexxe

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Re: maybe looking for new audio interface
« Reply #49 on: Time Format »

Hey MJMP.

    Yes, at the present time, I'm only anticipating tracking each instrument by myself. Possibly in the future, I may have others join me in tracking sessions, but I don't know yet. Two ins and outs are not enough because I may want to track guitars for example, from a few rigs at the same time. Very much like a live sound setup. That could be my MP-1 rack combined with the Fender Twins and/or the Leslie. Or...the Classic half-stack, the MP-2 half-stack and the Leslie...the combinations I can use are quite a few. By this I don't mean running all those amps at the same time, but I switch between rigs in the song to get specific tones for a certain section of the song. To me, that is much easier to record through a song that way instead of recording bits and pieces, then splicing it together. Then there is also the drums, and those need more than two mics to get a good mix.
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MarshallJMP

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Re: maybe looking for new audio interface
« Reply #50 on: Time Format »

Ok I see, any idea how many mic inputs you need?
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rnolan

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Re: maybe looking for new audio interface
« Reply #51 on: Time Format »

Hey Harley, 2 reasons I was liking the 18i20 (and am now even considering for myself) was I know you like to use outboard FX (as do I) and you'll need analogue in/outs for that, that just seemed to limiting in the 18i8, and the 8 analogue inputs is workable to do a live take recording of a band (with electric kit), and also enough to mic up a kit if you wanted to (or go bananas and create wall of guitar  >:D ).

So I've been using Protools Digi001/002 both are 8 in 8 out (plus the digital I/O which I've never used).  And I use protools like a multitrack tape recorder.  That format has proved sufficient (but I wouldn't want less analogue I/O)  USB 3 could (I would have thought help reduce latency ??). Not that I care because I use a desk so it's not an issue. But throughput could be a problem ? If you were recording 8 channels @192khz 24 bit simultaneously, does USB 2 struggle...????

All the DAW software I've seen over the years is all rather similar.  Protools is reasonably straight forward, and QBase is much the same, actually I find protools a little easier than QBase to do what I want, ie just use it as a digital tape recorder.  Not completely surprising as protools stated life as analogue > digital recording, QBase started life as a sequencer on Ataris and added analogue digital recording much later.
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Harley Hexxe

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Re: maybe looking for new audio interface
« Reply #52 on: Time Format »

Ok I see, any idea how many mic inputs you need?

   Okay, For my guitar rigs I could use as many as 8 lines in, if you figure each ADA rig is in stereo, and there are three separate rigs. The Fenders will have to be mic'ed each, and the Leslie needs one mic on the top and the bottom. That doesn't include the direct signals from the Microcabs, which I like to add in live situations, it might not work so well in recording through a DAW. I don't know for certain though, since I've only recorded that way to tape.
   The drums have 8 mics, so there again, at least eight inputs.
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MarshallJMP

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Re: maybe looking for new audio interface
« Reply #53 on: Time Format »

Well in that case I would go for the 18i20, it has lots of in/outs and can be expanded with more.

Also if you want I have a Cubase AI8 lying around here so if you want you can have it.
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Harley Hexxe

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Re: maybe looking for new audio interface
« Reply #54 on: Time Format »

Okay Richard,

     As far as I've been able to tell from all the things I've been reading about, USB (3.0, 2.0) are pretty much the same as far as data transfer, and latency issues. Firewire is only slightly better as far as consistency goes, but again the data transfer rate is the same as USB. What makes the difference is how many apps are running in the background. The more that is going on at once in your PC, the more of a load you are putting on your processor and that is where the latency can become an issue. Shutting off all non-essential programs will help with that. In my old desk top PC that I built specifically for recording, I had two separate hardware configurations to choose from at start up, Full Setup, or Recording Setup. In Recording setup, I disabled everything I didn't need, (Sound card, Ethernet card USB Card, etc.) I also disabled all the background programs and apps such as Internet Security and Anti-virus, USB Drivers, Network drivers, Task Manager, etc...everything except PnP drivers since I needed that to allow the processor to see the Core 2 card.
   When I recorded through that using Sonic Foundry 'Vegas' or Sound Forge, I had no latency issues at all, and never crashed the computer that way, even recording all four at once. ( The breakout box has 4 in /8 out).
   I pretty much was using that in the same way, as a multi track recorder, but there aren't too many outboard effects I would use, mainly the Eventide Harmonizer and one of the Lexicon Reverbs. The ADA gear is fine in my guitar rig and doesn't need to be run with separate I/O's. ( I would need 256 channel strips just to accomodate all the rack effects!)

    In any event, here is a link to one of the articles I read, and it talks about recording through USB. This may help solve your apprehensions about the difference between USB 3.0 and 2.0

         http://www.sweetwater.com/insync/audio-interface-buying-guide/
       
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Harley Hexxe

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Re: maybe looking for new audio interface
« Reply #55 on: Time Format »

Well in that case I would go for the 18i20, it has lots of in/outs and can be expanded with more.

Also if you want I have a Cubase AI8 lying around here so if you want you can have it.

   Yes, I see it has the capability to expand the I/O's. The question I have about that would be: Are you limited to only one expansion unit, or can you daisy chain more if you need it?

   I appreciate the offer on the Cubase. I remember years ago trying to figure out how to work that one, and couldn't figure out how to do anything on it. Is AI8 more user friendly? Just for the record, (no pun intended), I still want to learn to use Pro Tools, but learning Cubase too wouldn't hurt.
« Last Edit: Time Format by Harley Hexxe »
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MarshallJMP

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Re: maybe looking for new audio interface
« Reply #56 on: Time Format »

You can only expand it with 8 ins and 8 outs (with the oktopre for instance) since there's only 1 adat in and 1 adat out.

Well I find cubase very user friendly now, it has the layout of a mixing console with channel strips. Also I don't see much difference anymore between cubase and pro tools. Both have become very professional daw's for both audio and midi. From what I can tell it seems pro tools is a bit more expensive.

I've been using cubase since SX3 and now I'm on cubase 8.5 pro. The good thing about cubase is that you can buy educational versions very cheap. (which I did).I think avid also sells edu versions. Depends a bit what you need.
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Harley Hexxe

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Re: maybe looking for new audio interface
« Reply #57 on: Time Format »

Hey MJMP,
   Yes, I know there is only one ADAT I/O on the 18i20, but there is also the same thing on the Octopre. So my thinking is a daisy-chain connection in that manner to add additional channels in that manner?  :dunno:

     Okay, that would be a plus with the Cubase then, and I'm sure if I got stuck on something, I could get help from one of the members here who are using it, (which would be the only reason I'd consider Cubase). Pro Tools also has Educational versions, but from what I can tell, they just offer additional licenses. There are a lot of Pro Tools packages at various prices at Sweetwater, and I suppose I'd have to call tech support at Sweetwater to find out what kind of Pro Tools upgrade I would have to buy to get a usable recording version. It all comes down to $$$, as usual  :lol:

          Harley 8)
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rnolan

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Re: maybe looking for new audio interface
« Reply #58 on: Time Format »

Hey Harley, thanks for the link, I'd read that page before quite a while ago... but good to read it again  :thumb-up:
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MarshallJMP

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Re: maybe looking for new audio interface
« Reply #59 on: Time Format »

Harley, adat doesn't work that way.It's a one way 8 channel connection that works on 44 or 48kHz sampling rate (16 or 24 bits). So you have one adat connection for 8 inputs and one adat connection for 8 outputs. So you can't daisy chain them.

Some cards have a SMUX that allow you to work on 88 or 96kHz but then you will sacrifice 4 channels. This is SMUX II, with SMUX IV you can go 2 channel 192kHz 24 bit, so here you will sacrifice 6 channels. Now not all IO card support SMUX so check your manual.

There's a lot of info for working with cubase on their website. They have a ton of stuff on YouTube which is very well explained,going from the basic stuff up to the more exotic stuff.

I just checked the pro tools stuff and they seem to work different from cubase. They work with licences usually for a year and after that no more updates or support. Cubase works with versions and usually every year they bring out a small one like 8 to 8.5 or a big one like 7.5 to 8. And you pay for it when you want to upgrade. But those upgrades (and I'm talking for the pro versions) are a lot cheaper than what pro tools charges for an annual licence.I see prices from 200 to 600$ for a year while upgrading from cubase pro 8 to 8.5 is only 50 euro.
A lot of people seem to complain about this because it a mess of licences.
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