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Author Topic: Beyma Liberty 8  (Read 6792 times)

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Harley Hexxe

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Beyma Liberty 8
« on: Time Format »

Hey Gang,
I've been looking into these reproductions of the old JBL D-120 speakers.
I know they will sound great in the Fender Twins, but I've also been considering swapping out the speakers in a pair of my Split-Stack cabs with them.
Any thoughts on this?

Harley 8)
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rnolan

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Re: Beyma Liberty 8
« Reply #1 on: Time Format »

Hey Harley, I found these 2 speaker shootout clips. They all sound quite different.
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g7u0toTrmQs) (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rRmAUzKef-w&feature=iv&src_vid=g7u0toTrmQs&annotation_id=annotation_921397).

I liked the greenbacks but the JBLs had more bottom end and should work well in the split stacks. It's all a bit suck it and see (hear) although speaker "rolling" isn't a cheap thing to do.
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Studio Rig: MP2/MB1 > Eurorack UB2442FX-Pro > TC M-One XL > Behringer Truths (with Truth Sub) / QUAD ESL 63s
Live Rig: MP2/MB1 > Alesis Quadverb > Alesis Midiverb 4 > Yamaha AM802 > B200s/Carvin TS100/DCM200L > ADA Split Stacks/Mesa P112s

rickeb1

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Re: Beyma Liberty 8
« Reply #2 on: Time Format »

FWIW, Weber also makes a well-regarded speaker based on the JBL D120:
http://www.tedweber.com/cali12f
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Harley Hexxe

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Re: Beyma Liberty 8
« Reply #3 on: Time Format »

Richard,
I checked out those clips. Personally speaking, my tone preferences lean more toward the JBLs rather than the Celestions. I have Altecs in a couple of my Fender cabs, and they have a better tone than what I heard in the shootout clips, almost like the JBL in fact, but with a bit more midrange.
I may try the Beyma speakers, but that's not cheap at $250 each!

Harley 8)
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Harley Hexxe

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Re: Beyma Liberty 8
« Reply #4 on: Time Format »

Rickb1,

I'll check these out, thanks!


Harley 8)

I just looked at the ones you recommended, it looks like a unique type of speaker, something between a JBL and a Jensen. Not quite what I'm looking for sound-wise. One of the things that make the JBL and Altec speakers sound good is their high power capacity range. JBL D120F are rated at 300 watts, and the Altecs I have are rated at 250 watts. I believe this would introduce more speaker break up at stage volumes than I would get with the Beyma.


Harley 8)
« Last Edit: Time Format by Harley Hexxe »
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rnolan

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Re: Beyma Liberty 8
« Reply #5 on: Time Format »

Hey Harley
I tend to agree with you, I wasn't particularly impressed with the Celetions in the "shootout" either. Also the cabinet makes a difference.  From what I was reading re Lorantz speakers (http://www.melbournemusiccentre.com.au/auxpage_lorantz/), higher power handling reduces bandwidth. Also higher impedance speakers are usually more efficient. Some variables to keep in mind.
The 2 12M70's in one of my split stacks sound better than the 75w Celestions they had in the clip, no where near as hollow. But then we also eq our patches to suit the speakers.
R
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Studio Rig: MP2/MB1 > Eurorack UB2442FX-Pro > TC M-One XL > Behringer Truths (with Truth Sub) / QUAD ESL 63s
Live Rig: MP2/MB1 > Alesis Quadverb > Alesis Midiverb 4 > Yamaha AM802 > B200s/Carvin TS100/DCM200L > ADA Split Stacks/Mesa P112s

Harley Hexxe

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Re: Beyma Liberty 8
« Reply #6 on: Time Format »

Hey Richard,

     The higher impedance speakers will still break up, but the breakup is softer IMHO. I think what I'm really after is to not get any speaker break up at all, and just broadcast the Preamp/Amp Overdrive without adding any additional distortion from the speakers. I believe this allows more bottom end to come through than you would typically find from the more distortion saturated settings. It's more pleasing to my ears that way.

Harley 8)
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rnolan

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Re: Beyma Liberty 8
« Reply #7 on: Time Format »

Hey Harley, with the high power rating of the ones your looking at they should be well within their limits and not break up. I agree, I'm not looking for poweramp or speaker distortion, let it all happen in the MP1/2. The MP2 sounds awesome plugged direct into studio set up, so clean all the way.
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Studio Rig: MP2/MB1 > Eurorack UB2442FX-Pro > TC M-One XL > Behringer Truths (with Truth Sub) / QUAD ESL 63s
Live Rig: MP2/MB1 > Alesis Quadverb > Alesis Midiverb 4 > Yamaha AM802 > B200s/Carvin TS100/DCM200L > ADA Split Stacks/Mesa P112s

Harley Hexxe

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Re: Beyma Liberty 8
« Reply #8 on: Time Format »

Hey Richard,

     I don't know if anyone else experiences this, but when you are recording with a lightly crunchy tone, the playback of the recording seems to sound like the crunch is heavier than than what you are hearing through the speakers. Do you ever get that impression?

Harley 8)
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rnolan

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Re: Beyma Liberty 8
« Reply #9 on: Time Format »

Hey Harley, I spose the simple answer is yes and no. There are so many variables to account for/balance. If what you mean is the guitar speakers sound one way to your ears but when that's recorded (and then how was it recorded (vast array of how, e.g. mics, mic placement, I/O device, software/tape, levels....) it sounds different.
There are lots of reasons a guitar rig may sound different recorded, however, from your question, the main one that come to mind is mic proximity effect (and very much depends on the mic). If you use say SM 57s (popular choice for miking guitar cabs), 57's and 58's were designed to have a distinct bass boost when up close to the source, they also both have a 5khz (presence) boost (hump).
If you really want to try to capture exactly (well as close as you can get) to what's coming off the speaker, you'd use a high quality condenser mic(s) and not too close (so not to overload it/them, or bottom out the diaphragm (distortion/blah...) and give the wavelengths (particularly low end) time/space to develop (e.g. low bass notes are 32 feet long in the air)). In a studio scenario, I'd chase down the capture like every other instrument to get the best from what I have to work with.
I tend to record direct from MP2 cab sim outs into ProTools, but I monitor through the studio monitors so what I play (hear) is much what I get when I play it back. I also have my system set flat, no eq to the speakers. When I hear live recordings of my rig (again so gear/mic and expertise dependent (and mostly cam corders these days (so not great audio))) it sounds very different, for me typically more toppy than I'm hearing (and what you hear on stage depends where you stand with regard to your cabs, and partly why RabbidGerry experimented with foam in front of the speaker cones to disperse the sound better (he hates the "beaming")).
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Studio Rig: MP2/MB1 > Eurorack UB2442FX-Pro > TC M-One XL > Behringer Truths (with Truth Sub) / QUAD ESL 63s
Live Rig: MP2/MB1 > Alesis Quadverb > Alesis Midiverb 4 > Yamaha AM802 > B200s/Carvin TS100/DCM200L > ADA Split Stacks/Mesa P112s

Harley Hexxe

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Re: Beyma Liberty 8
« Reply #10 on: Time Format »

Hey Richard,

      Thanks for the feedback. That's food for thought in the studio setup :thumb-up:

      The question I posted was directly about all my recording studio experiences in the past, where I relied on the studio engineer to capture my tone. Typically, they used SM-57's in the front of my cabs, and placed them off axis to the center of the speakers that they were micing. In one studio situation, an engineer used three different mics on an old Fender Princeton combo, but that was to specifically get the amp to sound much bigger than it actually was. For the most part, I did notice that my rig's overdrive settings, had more distortion on the playback than it does live. Maybe this is what the engineers thought I was trying to get in my settings?  :dunno:

Harley 8)
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rnolan

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Re: Beyma Liberty 8
« Reply #11 on: Time Format »

Hey Harley, this is a bit strange (to me). When you mic up an amp (live or studio) my inclination (with my audio engineer hat on) is to just capture that as faithfully as I can (given whatever I have to work with). And yes I'd go for multiple mics if available (watch out for phasing) dynamic and condenser in various locations to achieve a good capture/sound but not add distortion/overdrive. Having 57s close to the cone (on or off axis) will give a little proximity bass boost, but the only thing I can think of that would boost distortion (overdrive) is overloading the mic (or desk input), otherwise it should just sound like what it picked up (cleanly and faithfully).  Again though, there are many variables in the signal chain from go to woe, they all need to be considered.
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Studio Rig: MP2/MB1 > Eurorack UB2442FX-Pro > TC M-One XL > Behringer Truths (with Truth Sub) / QUAD ESL 63s
Live Rig: MP2/MB1 > Alesis Quadverb > Alesis Midiverb 4 > Yamaha AM802 > B200s/Carvin TS100/DCM200L > ADA Split Stacks/Mesa P112s

Harley Hexxe

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Re: Beyma Liberty 8
« Reply #12 on: Time Format »

Hey Richard,

    Agreed! It is kind of strange to me too. I thought maybe the engineer wasn't really up to speed the first time it happened, so I went to a different studio to re-record the demos at the time, and got the same results. The rig I was using at the time was a simple, small rack with the Classic, S-1000, Digitizer 4, Digitech DSP-128, and a Microtube 100, through a Fender 2x12 cab loaded with Altec G-17's, (wired to individual jacks). We recorded it using the mics and the recording outputs of the Classic blended together.

    The other trick with the Fender Princeton used a Cardiod mic in the center of the speaker in front of the amp, a Condenser mic in the rear of the speaker, and a Dynamic mic about 2 Meters away, and elevated to about the same height to get that sound. Yes, he did have to watch the phasing anomalies, but it was a cool sound in the final mix!

    Harley 8)
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