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[rabidgerry]

That's a bit weird.  His toms are large, for a two rack 1 floor kits.  Those shells came are part of the same kit he has had since he was a teenager.  It's by no means an expensive kit.  The toms have a very deep bassy punding sound.  Perhaps too much, but since it's all he has they are what we have!!!  He has however a new smaller tom and this is what is causing me an issue micing the way I want as it's in the way and he does not have a rack.  So anyways this new tom means he can start his rolls there rather than the snare and then his toms which is something he likes to do, or he can extend them by including the snare, then all the toms hahaha


I don't know if I notice what you mean about them different from the rest of the kit.  I know the track I let you hear the snare needs EQ'd, there is a lot of 250 hz, alot!!  The kick needs eq'd different as well. And I'm debating if the overheads need harshness taken out of them.  I eq'd them in a way that only leaves the cymbals and hat mainly.

How does everyone mic their snare?  2 mics? One top and bottom? pointing at the batter head?  Pointing at the shell?  Pointing across the drum like I do? 

Since I started doing the across head postion I have got a much better snare and less boxy and nice bass bounce and snap.

[MarshallJMP]

Back in the 80's it was normal to have power toms which were very deep with no so deep bassdrums usually 16".Now it's the other way around,deeper DB's usually 22 to 24" and smaller toms.

Hey Rabitgerry,do you have a pic of that drumhead?

I use 2 mics for the snare,top and bottom,the top for the "meat" and the bottom for the "crack",but the bottom one needs to be phase inversed.The bottom is pointed to the middle of the snares,the bottom is pointed between the rim and the center.

[rnolan]

In the end it's what you've got on hand and how much time you have to play around with it to get the sound you want, for me, get a good sounding drum and capture/mike it as best I can. I've never been big on bottom snare miking (good idea if you have the mics), but I didn't allays have a spare mic to do it. Reversing the phase is, as MJMP says, very important, but not all desks have a phase reverse on the channel so you'd need to make a phase reverse mic lead (i.e. swap pin 2 and 3 at ONE end, or you can buy a XLR phase reverse plug = easiest).
As I'm often limited for mics, I use a 57 over the snare ~30 degrees aimed slightly toward the edge, slanted a bit toward the hats (unless I have a separate hat mic).
But if you have the time, and even better someone to move the mic around while you listen, it's worth trying different positions/mics to get the sound you like.

[rabidgerry]

Back in the 80's it was normal to have power toms which were very deep with no so deep bassdrums usually 16".Now it's the other way around,deeper DB's usually 22 to 24" and smaller toms.

Hey Rabitgerry,do you have a pic of that drumhead?

I use 2 mics for the snare,top and bottom,the top for the "meat" and the bottom for the "crack",but the bottom one needs to be phase inversed.The bottom is pointed to the middle of the snares,the bottom is pointed between the rim and the center.

It's rabidgerry BTW 

Hey MJMP here is a photos, they are from a few years ago but you will see the toms.  His setup is different now, more f**king cymbals and he doesn't have that snare anymore as it was awful in my opinion.

I never went down the two mics route, never felt the need to, not now anyways.  With that old crappy snare I could never hear the snares so I contemplated micing the bottom back then.  His new snare is a tama something or other and it's very nice.



his toms are 14" 16" and 18"  his kick is 22"

[rabidgerry]

In the end it's what you've got on hand and how much time you have to play around with it to get the sound you want, for me, get a good sounding drum and capture/mike it as best I can. I've never been big on bottom snare miking (good idea if you have the mics), but I didn't allays have a spare mic to do it. Reversing the phase is, as MJMP says, very important, but not all desks have a phase reverse on the channel so you'd need to make a phase reverse mic lead (i.e. swap pin 2 and 3 at ONE end, or you can buy a XLR phase reverse plug = easiest).
As I'm often limited for mics, I use a 57 over the snare ~30 degrees aimed slightly toward the edge, slanted a bit toward the hats (unless I have a separate hat mic).
But if you have the time, and even better someone to move the mic around while you listen, it's worth trying different positions/mics to get the sound you like.

This is generally what I have done to test mic positions.  I have read a lot about drum micing over the years. 

I know it's general practice to invert the phase of the bottom mic either recording or else later in DAW but I thought you could avoid doing this if you have the bottom mic pointed at a different spot than the top mic?  Perhaps not but I'm pretty sure I read that.  Not that I have any need to do so.

[rnolan]

Wow RG, cymbal city. I'd try (and hear how it sounds) moving the OHs' to the back corners (of the drum carpet) and focus more over the kit, the cymbals are going to spill into everything (tom mics etc) as well.

[MarshallJMP]

Well i'm used to the sound that 2 mics give on a snare,the bottom one gives more clarity to the sound.

[rabidgerry]

Well i'm used to the sound that 2 mics give on a snare,the bottom one gives more clarity to the sound.

What mic to you use on the bottom?  The same type as on the top?  May be I'll try it some time and see how it sounds.

Wow RG, cymbal city. I'd try (and hear how it sounds) moving the OHs' to the back corners (of the drum carpet) and focus more over the kit, the cymbals are going to spill into everything (tom mics etc) as well.

I don't have the over heads there any more.  I use X-Y micing technique.  They are at the front of the kit also because I can't place them behind the drummer as there isn't enough space.  The photo above is about 4 years ago.  I'm working on having something hang from the ceiling that will allow me to overhead from the back.  Ionly use the OH for cymbals anyways as I close mic.

[MarshallJMP]

I use the audix i5 for top and bottom.

About the phase reverse,the theory is that when you hit the top head of the snare it will first go down when you hit it,so the mic see's or hears a negative phase,but the bottom head,due to the movement of the air inside,will go up in relationship to the bottom mike,so it will see a positive phase,so both sounds are phase inverted and that's why you need to phase invert the bottom mike.If you have a mix console or a DAW with a phase switch you will hear the difference in sound.

[rabidgerry]

Interesting.  I understand with that theory in mind and indeed I have had to flip phase dual micing things before.  However I definitely think it is possible to do it in way that does not require phase inversion if pointed at a different spot from the top mic.  Isn't distance from the drum a factor as well?  Like if they are both mic'd at different distances from the skin they are receiving the sound at two different times?


I dunno may be I made that up and thought I read it.

How do you know so much about this MJMP?  You're a guitarist right?  But your son drums?

[MarshallJMP]

It works if you don't do a phase inverse,but like i said,different sound.Some frequency's will be enhanced and some notched.

Now to get that effect ( do it in way that does not require phase inversion) i think you will have to put the mic at a serious distance from the snare,but this is also frequency dependend and stuff.Problem is that accoustics is very difficult stuff.I know some things i learned in school back in the days but like most ,the older you get the more you forget 

Yep i'm a guitar player and not a drummer but i was always fascinated with drums,and maybe i passed it on to my son who didn't want to play the guitar,even if i kicked hiss ass 
And when i gave up and got his drumset i started working on it,tuning and stuff,trying different heads etc... and now after 4 years i know more about the drum then the drummers from my band.Downside is that they always bother me with questions about their drum sets.

Also i have a friend that owns a recording studio and i go help him out from time to time,so i picked up a few things here and there.

It's fun you know ,if your children are into music,and you want to help them as much as you can i guess.

[rabidgerry]

It works if you don't do a phase inverse,but like i said,different sound.Some frequency's will be enhanced and some notched.

Now to get that effect ( do it in way that does not require phase inversion) i think you will have to put the mic at a serious distance from the snare,but this is also frequency dependend and stuff.Problem is that accoustics is very difficult stuff.I know some things i learned in school back in the days but like most ,the older you get the more you forget 

Yep i'm a guitar player and not a drummer but i was always fascinated with drums,and maybe i passed it on to my son who didn't want to play the guitar,even if i kicked hiss ass 
And when i gave up and got his drumset i started working on it,tuning and stuff,trying different heads etc... and now after 4 years i know more about the drum then the drummers from my band.Downside is that they always bother me with questions about their drum sets.

Also i have a friend that owns a recording studio and i go help him out from time to time,so i picked up a few things here and there.

It's fun you know ,if your children are into music,and you want to help them as much as you can i guess.

Ahh well, your dual snare mic method is the "typical" way of doing it, I just thought I'd throw the possibility of not inverting phase out there because I thought I read about it.

I'm going to try it.  Mind you I have few channels left I think.

Anyways, you do know a lot about drums.  In my band, I'm the only one who know anything  it's odd.  I'm the one who sets up the bassist sound, who understands frequencies, how to fit all the sounds together and all that other stuff.  I don't mind, but sometimes its hard to communicate with band members who don't have a clue about sound.  They can play, and do what you tell them, but technical stuff goes over their head.

MJMP you should start to play drums.  You know you want to.  I always drum more than our drummer.  I'm constantly tapping drum beats with feet or hands.  My Girl friend hates it, pisses her off.  I love the beat!!!  Especially if its fast 

[Peter H. Boer]

Here the set up we used on our upcoming http://www.sote.nl album.

It's based around my kit with the drummer, in this case adding 2 octobans, a piccolo snare, and most of his own cymbals.

Bassdrum is miked inside (fixed) and outside on the beaterside
Snare is dual miked (top and bottom)
Piccolo snare top only
Toms on top only
Octobans from bottom only
Spaced pair overheads and a middle roommic

Most through some nice tube pre amps 

[rabidgerry]

Here the set up we used on our upcoming http://www.sote.nl album.

It's based around my kit with the drummer, in this case adding 2 octobans, a piccolo snare, and most of his own cymbals.

Bassdrum is miked inside (fixed) and outside on the beaterside
Snare is dual miked (top and bottom)
Piccolo snare top only
Toms on top only
Octobans from bottom only
Spaced pair overheads and a middle roommic

Most through some nice tube pre amps 

I play a lot of gigs where the sound man throws a mic inside the kick like yours.  Not the usual cardoid types either.

[MarshallJMP]

Is that a sort of special mounting system for mics insie the bassdrum,never saw that before?

Do you record with the front bassdrumhead?or is it removed to take a pic?

And i'm guessing you route the bassdrum mics through your MB-1 to get that MDRT sound