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Author Topic: Upgraded MP-1 transformer  (Read 19173 times)

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trader144

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Re: Upgraded MP-1 transformer
« Reply #15 on: Time Format »

Thank you
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El Chiguete

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Re: Upgraded MP-1 transformer
« Reply #16 on: Time Format »

Marshall... the man with a million answers! jeje
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rnolan

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Re: Upgraded MP-1 transformer
« Reply #17 on: Time Format »

Marshall... the man with a million answers! jeje
+1  :thumb-up:
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MarshallJMP

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Re: Upgraded MP-1 transformer
« Reply #18 on: Time Format »

Mmm only have 999.998 answers left   :lol:
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rnolan

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Re: Upgraded MP-1 transformer
« Reply #19 on: Time Format »

Hey El, you should have said a gazillion answers LOL. Interesting idea though, how many questions/answers do we do in our life ? A shitload comes to mind  :lol: And to what extent do they affect our happiness and longevity (allot I suspect).
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trader144

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Re: Upgraded MP-1 transformer
« Reply #20 on: Time Format »

So from what I have read the increased plate voltage from the MDRT gives you more headroom (less distortion) because it creates a wider operating range within the tube and therefore becomes harder to clip the input signal at the signal peaks. Ignoring the corresponding increase in grid voltage of course.
The downside is less gain and you loose the brown sound.

I have a 60's Nos mullard in V1 and a GT Mullard spec in V2 and it sounds really good.
Still have more gain than I need but the headroom increase and clarity is really nice and the ability to cut through the band is much better.





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rnolan

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Re: Upgraded MP-1 transformer
« Reply #21 on: Time Format »

Hey David, not sure how that equates to less gain ? Gain and clipping are different things. More headroom = more gain before ultimate clip of circuit, and as you say more room for bigger transient peaks.
Nice Tubes BTW  :thumb-up: . When more MDRTs turn up, MikeB is going to put one in his MP1, looking forward to hearing the difference.
Hey MJMP, any news on the MDRT availability front ?
Cheers R
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MarshallJMP

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Re: Upgraded MP-1 transformer
« Reply #22 on: Time Format »

Rnolan is right,more voltage will give a bit more gain,not alot but still.

Like i said in the other topic,not yet. :facepalm: Sorry.
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trader144

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Re: Upgraded MP-1 transformer
« Reply #23 on: Time Format »

I meant to say less distortion, not less gain--my error.

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rnolan

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Re: Upgraded MP-1 transformer
« Reply #24 on: Time Format »

Hey no worries, gain and distortion are kind of used a bit interchangeably here as we discuss clipping the tubes (eg high gain tubes = more distortion/clipping  >:D ). Also when I talk about gain structure (which I rabbit on about (Rabbit Richard of the Down Under LOL)) I'm talking about end to end gain of set up, not just the preamp Tube gain (although it's the centre of attention), kind of an audio engineer view.

Hey MJMP, thanks for trying so hard for us all  :thumb-up:
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rabidgerry

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Re: Upgraded MP-1 transformer
« Reply #25 on: Time Format »

Yeah I want and MDRT n all!!!

Random question:

If one installs an MDRT, it can run on both US Voltage 120v and European Voltage 240v?  So depending on where you are does this affect the sound then?
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"whadda ya want? we want Heavy Metal"

Guitars:1986 Westone Dimension IV, 1989 Korean Squier Fat Strat Silver Series, 1998 Korean Squier Fat Strat, MIM Fender Fat Strat - FR, Squier Stagemaster Deluxe - Thru Neck x 2, Squier Stagemaster 22 Fret - 1st Gen, 1999 Squier Showmaster - Anniversary Edition, Squier Showmaster, Tokai FV40 Flying V

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rnolan

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Re: Upgraded MP-1 transformer
« Reply #26 on: Time Format »

Hey RG, shouldn't affect the sound, it's designed (as I understand it) to work on both normal voltages and US voltages LOL, and has an earth  :whoohoo!:
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rabidgerry

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Re: Upgraded MP-1 transformer
« Reply #27 on: Time Format »

didn't trader144 say something earlier about why 240volts over 300v?  And this was in relation to the sound?  This is why I asked my question because it was mentioned earlier how the voltage affects the sound.


Why limit the voltage to 240 instead to 300v ? Is that the max for the transformer ?

==>i could go a bit higher but the caps on the tubeboard are only rated for 250V,so i need to stay below that voltage.

Why do I only need to change the tube board resistor when the voltage increased and there are other components?

==>if you don't replace it the voltage will stay at 190V even with the MDRT.The tubeboard has a voltage regulator onboard.

Why increase the capacitor from 4700uf to 10000uf? I know this allows for more charge to be stored but is it basically just 2x due to the new transformer?

==>this way you will have less ripple on the 12.6V rail for the tube heaters which results in less hum.

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"whadda ya want? we want Heavy Metal"

Guitars:1986 Westone Dimension IV, 1989 Korean Squier Fat Strat Silver Series, 1998 Korean Squier Fat Strat, MIM Fender Fat Strat - FR, Squier Stagemaster Deluxe - Thru Neck x 2, Squier Stagemaster 22 Fret - 1st Gen, 1999 Squier Showmaster - Anniversary Edition, Squier Showmaster, Tokai FV40 Flying V

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trader144

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Re: Upgraded MP-1 transformer
« Reply #28 on: Time Format »

didn't trader144 say something earlier about why 240volts over 300v?  And this was in relation to the sound?  This is why I asked my question because it was mentioned earlier how the voltage affects the sound.

My question was about the voltage to the tubes and if there was more room to raise it, not the wall voltage.
MJMP's MDRT installation instructions say to make sure you have the right MDRT for your voltage (US/European) but they can be exchanged with some modification.

More voltage to the tube affects the sound as we all have read. Increasing the tube plate voltage to 240v basically makes the top and bottom amplification tunnel wider and more spread apart so the sound is more articulate and 3D and louder-more gain. If we did this alone and did not change the grid voltage, it would produce less distortion than the original transformer because it is harder for the guitar signal to reach the tube clipping point of the wider amplification tunnel.

But....The tube distortion also depends on the voltage of the grid relative to the anode voltage. This grid voltage is the guitar signal running into the tube that will be amplified by the tube inside the tube amplification channel.  A wider input signal is going to hit the tube clipping limits of the amplification channel faster and as a result will create more distortion. Prior to the MDRT the typical way to adjust the guitar signal width (i.e. What the tube will be amplifying) was via trimpot and/or changing a resistor.

In addition to increasing the plate voltage to 240v, the MDRT basically doubles the grid voltage which allows a wider guitar signal to flow into the tube for amplification. Alone this would produce more distortion as it will hit the tube clipping limits faster.

But you have to look at both. While the plate voltage is increased from 190 to 240, or about 26% and the tube amplification channel is wider, the grid voltage is doubled. So the result of the MDRT is more clean headroom, more 3D and more gain and more distortion...but not more of the same type of distortion because the specs are all different and the tubes clip differently.

The downside? At lower plate voltages the tube will clip faster and create more of a brown sound than at higher voltages.

I think I am hearing a different type of distortion at top end levels than when I had the original transformer. It is less digital-like saturation and more of a real overdriven tube.

David

« Last Edit: Time Format by trader144 »
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rabidgerry

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Re: Upgraded MP-1 transformer
« Reply #29 on: Time Format »

I see, so the wall voltage is not the voltage of which you were referring. 

I guess I thought the MDRT was like one of those transformers that could handle both us and European voltage but without any tinkering like in other effects units that can take 120v or 240v.

I think I may not get one now after all, I'll have to think about it.


Is there any noticeable difference in replacing an older transformer with a new transformer sound wise?
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"whadda ya want? we want Heavy Metal"

Guitars:1986 Westone Dimension IV, 1989 Korean Squier Fat Strat Silver Series, 1998 Korean Squier Fat Strat, MIM Fender Fat Strat - FR, Squier Stagemaster Deluxe - Thru Neck x 2, Squier Stagemaster 22 Fret - 1st Gen, 1999 Squier Showmaster - Anniversary Edition, Squier Showmaster, Tokai FV40 Flying V

Effects:  Ada Mp1, Peavey Rockmaster, Boss GX700 Boss SX700 * Amps:   Rocktron Velocity 300 - Harley Benton GPA400
Cabs: 4 x Bugera 2 x 12"
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