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Board added for "ADA Cab Sims" in Other ADA Gear (coz El asked for it LOL)

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Author Topic: ADA GCS-2 + Stereo Rig = ... Two GCS-2s???  (Read 6196 times)

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swipesy

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Hello all.  I've been thinking hard about getting a GCS-2 soon.  The reviews and audio samples (the good audio samples, that is) have convinced me that the GCS is the way to go.

The trouble is, I run a Digitech 2112 stereo rig, and the on-board sim is ... well, let's just say it leaves a lot to be desired.  It sounds either really fizzy or has blankets all over the tone.  I love the sounds I get through an amp and speakers though, so the tone is definitely there.  I've come to the point where I want to get away from using amps and cabs and go direct, but the sim on the 2112 just doesn't cut it.

I've read you can put the GCS-2 in a loop before the preamp tubes, but wouldn't that color the tonal character of the generated distortion differently from using the sim after the preamp as would be normal?  I'm concerned about that.  I've never done that before, and I like the tones I'm getting through a cabinet.

I can't spend a great deal of money, and if I have to get two GCS-2s I might be better off trying to find an old microcab or something.  However, this new one appears it may sound a bit better than the old microcabs, and two of the GCS-2s may equal what an old Microcab might cost.  It would be a tough call there.  Tougher for me, too, because I've never heard either myself before.

Anyway, if anyone has any opinions on what running a single sim before the tubes might change tone-wise, I'd appreciate it.

Thanks in advance!

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MarshallJMP

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Re: ADA GCS-2 + Stereo Rig = ... Two GCS-2s???
« Reply #1 on: Time Format »

Well if it was me i would get a mirocab,more tonal options and for me it sounds better.Plus it's 19" so easy to build in a rack.
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MikeB

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Re: ADA GCS-2 + Stereo Rig = ... Two GCS-2s???
« Reply #2 on: Time Format »

I use a gcs-3 in the loop of my mp1 and therefore all my stereo effects are added later and i find that it sounds fine.  So far i have only really used it regularly at home with my rig plugged into a line6 ux1 so that i can use headphones and play along with other stuff.  I don't want to get divorced, so i have to keep my practice quiet.  I have used it through rnolan's mixer and it sounded great.  Wasn't exactly like my cab but i didn't expect it to be.  I have just copied my patches to a new bank and then added the loop to all those patches.  The gcs-3 stays in the rack, but is only called into play when i am going direct.  Mono cab simulator in a stereo rig.  :banana:

Perhaps you need to see if you can borrow one to try first.  I am not as fussy as some.
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rnolan

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Re: ADA GCS-2 + Stereo Rig = ... Two GCS-2s???
« Reply #3 on: Time Format »

Generally the FX loop in rack preamps is after the preamp tubes, it is in the MP1 so works well (e.g. MikeBs setup), although looking at the Digitech 2112 manual, it says the loop comes after the wah but before the distortion section (which one assumes is where the tubes are) so this is a "pre" preamp loop intended for stomp boxs' etc that you would run before your normal guitar amp, just provides a convenient place to plug them in and some level matching.
So putting GCS2 in this loop will cab sim the clean undistorted signal, which as you say, is not what you'd want.  So you can run mono GCS 2 after 2112 (not optimal) but will work fine, get 2 x GCS2s, $ but will work well, go with the microcab (seems the best idea and as MJMP says more options).
The other alternative, maybe even more expensive and may not even be doable would be to get the 2112 loop modified to be after the distortion stage where signal still mono, but before the FX stage.
I find if you cab sim the distorted signal then feed it thorough FX works very well.
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Studio Rig: MP2/MB1 > Eurorack UB2442FX-Pro > TC M-One XL > Behringer Truths (with Truth Sub) / QUAD ESL 63s
Live Rig: MP2/MB1 > Alesis Quadverb > Alesis Midiverb 4 > Yamaha AM802 > B200s/Carvin TS100/DCM200L > ADA Split Stacks/Mesa P112s

swipesy

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Re: ADA GCS-2 + Stereo Rig = ... Two GCS-2s???
« Reply #4 on: Time Format »

Thanks guys. Yeah, I'm aware that the effects loop in the 2112 is before the tubes, and it's hardwired that way.  Creating another loop between the tubes and effects would raise too many unknowns, such as impedances, voltages, etc.  Putting a cab sim in the existing loop is definitely not an option, and if I decided to create a new loop I would do it myself, but I don't have the information I would need to get that done. So ... dual cab sims appears to be the only viable solution in my situation. At least I know that now and can deal with it.

Thanks again guys!

[EDIT]

I just realized something. The 2112 is set up with dual signal paths - tube on one side and solid state on the other - and each may be panned anywhere.  Since that happens before distortion is generated (tube or SS) it also prevents a single cab sim from being used. If I had thought of that before I wouldn't have bothered you guys.  Panning tube distortion hard left and SS distortion hard right (or vice-versa) sure does create some great sounds. I certainly wouldn't want to lose that.

[/EDIT]
« Last Edit: Time Format by swipesy »
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swipesy

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Re: ADA GCS-2 + Stereo Rig = ... Two GCS-2s???
« Reply #5 on: Time Format »

Hey guys,

I was able to find a Microcab II for $100. Should have it in a week or so.  The seller told me it works fine and from the pics looked to be in excellent++ condition. Looking forward to trying it out!
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rnolan

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Re: ADA GCS-2 + Stereo Rig = ... Two GCS-2s???
« Reply #6 on: Time Format »

Cool, good result, let us know how it goes. :thumb-up:
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Studio Rig: MP2/MB1 > Eurorack UB2442FX-Pro > TC M-One XL > Behringer Truths (with Truth Sub) / QUAD ESL 63s
Live Rig: MP2/MB1 > Alesis Quadverb > Alesis Midiverb 4 > Yamaha AM802 > B200s/Carvin TS100/DCM200L > ADA Split Stacks/Mesa P112s

swipesy

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Re: ADA GCS-2 + Stereo Rig = ... Two GCS-2s???
« Reply #7 on: Time Format »

Well, I gave it a good workout tonight. Verdict: Bleh. Too honky for my tastes. The 2112's internal sim sounds better to my ears, but not good enough. I don't know if the GCS-2 would be any better either. I'm thinking maybe it's time to upgrade to a POD HD500X and get out of the stone age.  Or something!
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rnolan

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Re: ADA GCS-2 + Stereo Rig = ... Two GCS-2s???
« Reply #8 on: Time Format »

There's a whole pile of variables here, e.g. what are you monitoring through ?
Direct:  I've always had good results with MP2 cab sims through Behringer Truths, and MikeBs MP1 sounds great with the GCS3 in the FX loop. I've not used a Microcab but MJMP likes them (and maybe has suggestions ?).
It depends though what you want to do.  The ADA MP1/2 are "live" preamps, I'd prefer to mike up cabs to record than use cab sims, but not always easy.
If you want something just to record, seems the AXE FX is the go, they just don't cut it quite as well live as real preamps, personally I wouldn't go near a pod, but thats me, I like real sounds, mate of mine has a top of the line line 6 (is pod ??), the metal sounds are ok, the rest is very ho/hum IMHO.
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Studio Rig: MP2/MB1 > Eurorack UB2442FX-Pro > TC M-One XL > Behringer Truths (with Truth Sub) / QUAD ESL 63s
Live Rig: MP2/MB1 > Alesis Quadverb > Alesis Midiverb 4 > Yamaha AM802 > B200s/Carvin TS100/DCM200L > ADA Split Stacks/Mesa P112s

El Chiguete

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Re: ADA GCS-2 + Stereo Rig = ... Two GCS-2s???
« Reply #9 on: Time Format »

What was you rig chain? You are going to a recording interface and not thru a guitar cab and speakers correct?

PS:
Marshall mentioned that he and other people have a trick: ¨you can set all the buttons to the off position when you push one button slightly in,so none of the cab sims are selected.Best sound IMHO¨, try that too and see how it goes.
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rnolan

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Re: ADA GCS-2 + Stereo Rig = ... Two GCS-2s???
« Reply #10 on: Time Format »

Hey El, good one, I'd forgotten that one  :facepalm:
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Studio Rig: MP2/MB1 > Eurorack UB2442FX-Pro > TC M-One XL > Behringer Truths (with Truth Sub) / QUAD ESL 63s
Live Rig: MP2/MB1 > Alesis Quadverb > Alesis Midiverb 4 > Yamaha AM802 > B200s/Carvin TS100/DCM200L > ADA Split Stacks/Mesa P112s

swipesy

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Re: ADA GCS-2 + Stereo Rig = ... Two GCS-2s???
« Reply #11 on: Time Format »

I'm not playing live anymore and the power amp/cab setup is just too much for around the house now (Tube Works 962 & 4x12 V30s). I was checking it out using my AKG K240S phones. Everything else sounds good through those, no boomy bass, humped mids or shrill highs. No matter where I set the hi balance or thump controls I just can't seem to get rid of the honky tone through the MC. I didn't try the "all buttons off" trick, but I'll at least try that for giggles if nothing else. Axe FX is way too costly for me, so that's out. I'm thinking about different things, not sure what I want to do yet.

Thanks guys!
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rnolan

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Re: ADA GCS-2 + Stereo Rig = ... Two GCS-2s???
« Reply #12 on: Time Format »

Hey swipesy, can you try MP1 headphone out into your AKGs and let me know your thoughts. Also I'm thinking (correct me if I'm wrong BTW MJMP et al) that the MP1 headphone out must be eq'd a bit to sound good in headphones ??? i.e. you could then plug it direct L/R > record/whatever input/ mixer ..
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Studio Rig: MP2/MB1 > Eurorack UB2442FX-Pro > TC M-One XL > Behringer Truths (with Truth Sub) / QUAD ESL 63s
Live Rig: MP2/MB1 > Alesis Quadverb > Alesis Midiverb 4 > Yamaha AM802 > B200s/Carvin TS100/DCM200L > ADA Split Stacks/Mesa P112s

swipesy

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Re: ADA GCS-2 + Stereo Rig = ... Two GCS-2s???
« Reply #13 on: Time Format »

I don't have an MP1, I have a Digitech 2112. I'm ran that into the MC then into a small mixer and took the headphones out of that, everything set flat. Running CDs through the same mixer into the phones sounds just fine. True, I may have to EQ a bit, but even so, without EQ the 2112's internal sim still sounds closer to the cabs than the MC does.
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rnolan

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Re: ADA GCS-2 + Stereo Rig = ... Two GCS-2s???
« Reply #14 on: Time Format »

Sorry swipesy, my bad.. I don't know much about the MC, maybe MJMP has some ideas ? Why it's honky ? (I assume you turn off the 2112 internal sim when you use the MC (or double cab sim eq))
The GCS3 (which is the GCS2 with some additions) sounds great!! direct with MP1 (in loop, you can't do  :facepalm: ). And I get great results with MP2 cab sims direct.  I monitor with Behringer Truths with Behringer Sub.
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Studio Rig: MP2/MB1 > Eurorack UB2442FX-Pro > TC M-One XL > Behringer Truths (with Truth Sub) / QUAD ESL 63s
Live Rig: MP2/MB1 > Alesis Quadverb > Alesis Midiverb 4 > Yamaha AM802 > B200s/Carvin TS100/DCM200L > ADA Split Stacks/Mesa P112s
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