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Non ADA Gear => Guitars => Topic started by: MarshallJMP on February 27, 2016, 08:36:23 AM
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I came across some discussions about guitar woods.Some say that tonewood really affects your sound and some say you can use any wood,you won't hear the difference.Just take a look at it on youtube.
So what do you guys think about this?Could turn out to be a nice discussion ::)
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Have you got a link for it MJMP?
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Start here https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=tonewood+debate
There are some major discussions going on.
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Like this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lLqIzt2_eIw
Look at it,i can hear a difference and i could tell which clip was which wood.
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Couple years ago i wanted a luthier handmade instrument. At the beginning, he made me try 3 instruments: all mapple neck
1st -alder body
2nd-mapple body
3rd-mahogany body
Exactly same basses (same electronic too), taken from his product
chain
I really prefer the mapple one because of the medium tone.
There was so much tone diference between the 2 others...
So I chose mapple
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Like this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lLqIzt2_eIw
Look at it,i can hear a difference and i could tell which clip was which wood.
Men !!! 600 guitars ... Just what I need :banana-guitar:
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Your couch can handle 600 guitars ;D
Did you hear the difference?
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Your couch can handle 600 guitars ;D
Did you hear the difference?
to me, and it's my opinion, I wasn't even watching but guitar 2 sounds little brighter
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But you know, watching those guys... seems they have found their reason to live :crazy:
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Without even watching I can attest that different woods make a big difference. But it's not as easy as I would have thought (eg harder woods = more sustain etc). There are some combinations that just work well together like a LP, 1 & 1/2"s of mahogany topped with 1/4" of sugar maple, just works. My Anderson has a basswood body, maple/pau ferro neck/FB and sings like nothing else.
There are some rules of thumb however, softer woods are more well rounded (eg mahogany, queensland maple) and harder woods a bit more crisp and project well (rosewood etc), and spruce or cedar are the most common top woods (though Maton use king billy pine sometimes).
I've also bumped into a few guitars made from very old (lived at the bottom of a swap for many years) bit's of this and that. Last one I saw recently was cedar from an old American train carriage that he had custom made into a telecaster (nice)
Alembic used to put the various bits of wood they were going to use to build a bass together for a "long" while just to get to know one another....
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OK, my initial thoughts ...
Yes, I did hear a noticeable difference when played acoustically
Yes, I did hear a slight difference when plugged in (blind test)
... but was there a big difference? I don't think so, and his explanation of the slight differences seems plausible.
I'll give it another go tomorrow to see if my opinion changes :dunno:
Did you listen to the Fender Custom Shop cardboard guitar? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gTZtnKbXAC0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gTZtnKbXAC0)
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Cardboard guitar!!! well ampeg made the aria guitar couple years ago
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Wauw that cardboard guitar was nice and it sounded good,so you know ,is there so much tonal difference,or is it just between the ears?
Now i do believe wood will have an effect on the sound,but it isn't that big like swapping pickups,here you will get far more audible differences.Same with body shapes,a V will be slightly different sounding then a strat or as an LP,or an explorer etc... but they will be very very small.Saying there is no difference goes a bit to far for me.
Maybe the wood quality is more important so you don't get twisted necks or cracked body's ,frets that come loose etc...
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I would have said the same before I got the JPLP. But it just sings even not plugged in, like Nigel (spinal tap) says, you can hear the sustain, I know he's taking the mikey but I couldn't get over it. A 59 LP is just amazing. And then I plugged it in.....
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My idea about woods for instruments is that practically any wood can be used, as long as it's grown the right way, harvested at the right time, and has rested correctly.
It is mostly about the grain structure and density.
Now, this of course automatically implies that woods do behave differently; however, I think the concept of very special tonewoods is often quite overrated.
In order to verify whether or not, methinks a whole range of fully identically build instruments should be build, where only the woods would differ.
Same thing with the talks about bolt-on, set neck, deep set-neck, neck trough..
While I absolutely loves those gorgeous flames and burls et al, it's more a matter of the love for looks (like women in lace).
Some mahoganies may result in slightly richer mids, while i.e. sapeli usually makes for a good overall balance.
Basswood with a veneer, like Ibanez has done it for years, works just fine for a nice wide-range tonal spectrum.
WRT grain and density, as mentioned.. this is why there's a difference between a mid-soft'ish maple neck and, say, Canadian or German hard high-mountain maple. IMHO, of course, and mileage likely will differ ;)
Test: Put a set of Dimarzios in a strat and a set of Texas Heat single coils in a Gibson. and see what happens..
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I kind of hate that guy doing all those videos, because he can be right in some of the stuff he says but his attitude sucks!!!
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I'll give it another go tomorrow to see if my opinion changes :dunno:
Well, same result for me again today. But this is based on the sound clips provided ... I would much prefer to have been there in person so that I could listen directly to how each example sounded through the amp.
I would have said the same before I got the JPLP. But it just sings even not plugged in, like Nigel (spinal tap) says, you can hear the sustain
When you say it just sings are referring to its tone, acoustic volume or sustain?
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I kind of hate that guy doing all those videos, because he can be right in some of the stuff he says but his attitude sucks!!!
Yes i find this too,about the attitude.
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This guy has no future as luthier :
1st-the guitar he makes are ugly
2nd-the guitar he make have the same tone even when changing wood
3rd-his attitude is not comercial
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When you say it just sings are referring to its tone, acoustic volume or sustain?
Kind of all 3 I suppose, not so much acc volume, but definitely tone and sustain. And plugged in sounds even better. I was particularly taken with the quality of the tone and just how much sustain it had (compared to other guitars I have). The JPLP has a single piece mahogany body with book matched maple top. Does single piece make a difference ? or is it mostly the quality of the wood.
I believe it can make a difference what wood you use and various constructions (eg straight through neck/body etc) but nothing like as important as it is for acoustic instruments.
The first guitar I made from scratch (doing a guitar building course >35 years ago) Classical sized body (for even bass/treb reponse), has a western red cedar top (arched to 25' circle), sapeli (African) mahogany back neck and sides, back arched to 18' circle, Gaboon ebony FB and Indian rosewood bridge & binding. Peg head veneer ebony/maple/rosewood. Neck is "Spanish foot" join and LP scale length and widths (I made this to play acoustic solos in the studio). As Van said, sapeli is very well balanced (and lovely ribbon grains) so good for recording. Cedar develops it's tone very quickly then kind of stays that way, it's a bit softer than spruce. Spruce generally takes years of playing to reach it's potential (a good example is the acoustic guitar on Jethro Tull albums (like Minstrel In the Gallery), melt me.....). For a live stage guitar you'd consider Rosewood back and sides as is crisper and projects well (or sugar maple ala most violins, chelos, etc which also generally sport a carved spruce top). Arching the top and back help volume and reduces standing waves.
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I just wanted to get back to that topic... what's the goal ?
Does that mean you only need to purchase a fisrt price guitar and put on expensive PU's to get a good tone ? Is that enough ?
So you buy an Ibanez whatever Rg model for 200/300$ , put on
Dimarzio évolution... and ready to go to kick Steve vai's tone
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Various things matter and will affect the tone. The wood has some affect IMO but not as much as the PUs and other hardware (particularly the bridge). The strat upgrade I just did is much what you are saying, $200 guitar with crap (cheap) hardware. The new bridge has given it lots more sustain and the new PUs bring it to life. New machine heads will stay in tune etc, it's a valid way to go as long as you never want to sell it, but you do generally get a better guitar if you spend the money.
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Yeha but he HAS to admit that different Woods do Sound different... Im not saying that one is better than the other or that one has more sustain or what not... Just that it add to the overal result that males your final tones from your fingers to the speakers (or even then mic and recording method). So for example if you want a night guitar start by having a bright wood in your guitar and go from there!
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Ok I agree with you : wood is not so important. And even you get Steve vai's PU signature model doesn't mean Dimarzio sell Vai's fingers with
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In my #14 post, I depicted some of my observations over the years. I'm of course not saying this or that wood has no effect.
But consider this: Slab an inexpensive but decently working guitar in the hands of a known player, and I bet it'll sound pretty much like this player.
Now slab this player's fines factory custom workshop guitar in the hands of a mediocre/decent player, and compare the sound..
The term signature sound very much relates to the player's specific touch (and yes, the axe and gear of ocurse has it's influx too).
And the full disclosure: I'm such a sucker for African Kaya mahogany, Canadian and German flamed mountain maple, Macassar Ebony, Siberian Corinna, Hawaiian Koa, Indonesian bamboo (great for laminated necks) - and Brasilian MDF (great for laminated bodies) :bow:
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Some nice wood choices MJMP :thumb-up:
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Some nice wood choices MJMP :thumb-up:
What?I didn't say anything,you mean Vansinn?
Now i wouldn't compare a cheap guitar wth a good PU in it to an expensive guitar.A more expensive guitar will sound and play better mostly due to fact of better hardware and better wood work.
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Doh :facepalm: , sorry MJMP, what was I thinking (drinking)
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Hey All, I've been reading the following article, useful information ...
http://www.frudua.com/sound_of_electric_guitar_wood.htm (http://www.frudua.com/sound_of_electric_guitar_wood.htm)
but of course there's always the opposite view ...
http://www.guitarnation.com/articles/calkin.htm (http://www.guitarnation.com/articles/calkin.htm)
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Doh :facepalm: , sorry MJMP, what was I thinking (drinking)
Aren't those two concepts really mutually exclusive :dunno:
Unless, of course, we consider Rory Gallagher's famous words from his Isle of Man concert:
Now, Whiskey will make you drowsy, but Gin can make you Think! - not speaking from [too much] personal experience.. :nono: :lol:
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Hey All, I've been reading the following article, useful information ...
http://www.frudua.com/sound_of_electric_guitar_wood.htm (http://www.frudua.com/sound_of_electric_guitar_wood.htm)
but of course there's always the opposite view ...
http://www.guitarnation.com/articles/calkin.htm (http://www.guitarnation.com/articles/calkin.htm)
Well it means we are stuc on same spot ! :facepalm:
Nobody got the answer :dunno:
It is still an interesting topic
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Well maybe it's like the guy in the second article says that the sound of a guitar depends who made it and how they did it.
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The sound of the guitar depends on many things, the main one is who and how it's played >:D . Does wood make a difference, definitely IMHO but it's one aspect of all the variables.
The first article is the only one that helps/informs our discussion as he's talking about electric guitars and basses. The 2nd article is all about the backs and sides of acoustic guitars (unless you are looking at a hollow body (eg ES 335, 375 etc)), there's no bending involved (normally) with an electric body. Both articles were very edifying/informative, and a great read (thanks DR :thumb-up: ). Interesting about the rosewood FB sucking the tone from maple necks, and Fender did go to very thin curved veneer (if you like) of rosewood over maple for their necks. They also used frets with a really shallow tang to suit. Re fretting one of these generally requires cutting through the FB into the neck as (well last time I had to do it) modern fret wire has much deeper tangs.
Definitely who and how it was made make a big difference as well. And all the bits make the whole, which is why I've just replaced all the hardware on the Squire strat. Now this has made a huge difference, the wood is ok ish and now the hardware is good. But it's way off the Anderson or JPLP.