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Author Topic: FX Loop volume drop w/Quadraverb  (Read 403 times)

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Syntho

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FX Loop volume drop w/Quadraverb
« on: Time Format »

I'm using an Alesis Quadraverb in the loop, the original one, not the GT version. I find that I have to crank the output on the QV all the way and put the input at nearly 3 oclock to get it to sound more like unity, however the catch is that I also have to set the Level knob for the FX loop on the MP1 to about 9 oclock to make it just right. That means less send and more receive signal for the MP1 using the dual-gang pot, and that gives a pretty low level of an input for the QV... which is perfect, because it seems to be overdriven very easily. I turn that up just before it starts clipping, and it's about unity at that point.

The Quadraverb seems to give a pretty low level output, and it's also overdriven very easily as mentioned, so the above combo of settings is what works for me. How do you set yours?
« Last Edit: Time Format by Syntho »
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Dante

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Re: FX Loop volume drop w/Quadraverb
« Reply #1 on: Time Format »

I used a QV for many years. You can't max out the QV's FX signal, or it'll suck the tone. Keep it a bit lower. I had my input around 12:00 and output around 10:00 if I remember correctly, I may have some old photos I can reference about that.
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Syntho

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Re: FX Loop volume drop w/Quadraverb
« Reply #2 on: Time Format »

Something must be wrong with my unit. Again, I have to turn the dual-gang pot on the MP1 to about 9, and on the QV the input is at about 3 and the output is maxed. That gets me to unity gain. All of that is with the QV in bypass mode too. Not sure what's going on.
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rnolan

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Re: FX Loop volume drop w/Quadraverb
« Reply #3 on: Time Format »

Hey Syntho, my QV is also an early one. As Dante said the input is a little sensitive, I used to set it for my loudest patch which meant not much on the input leds for quieter patches.  And also have to crank the output a bit but not maxed.  But I've always used it with a small desk set full wet and never used the loop.  So I assume the Fx send is feeding left in and you take one channel (left ?) to the return.  Given the QV is stereo, you loose a bit of output this way. You could try chaining through the QV (MP-1 A/B > QV L/R in QV L/R out > amp), if your rig is stereo, this will sound better than in the loop. You could also give the FX send/rtn pot a good clean (may help  :dunno: ). Also confirm (you may have already ?) the patch cables are good (swap and try others ?).
Getting the MP-1 loop to play fairly is a bit of an art I think.
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Studio Rig: MP2/MB1 > Eurorack UB2442FX-Pro > TC M-One XL > Behringer Truths (with Truth Sub) / QUAD ESL 63s
Live Rig: MP2/MB1 > Alesis Quadverb > Alesis Midiverb 4 > Yamaha AM802 > B200s/Carvin TS100/DCM200L > ADA Split Stacks/Mesa P112s

Syntho

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Re: FX Loop volume drop w/Quadraverb
« Reply #4 on: Time Format »

Ok, I took a closer look at the QV and I think I see what's going on. It has something to do with some of the 'configurations' on it, particularly the EQ-PCH-DLY-RVB one or whatever it's called. Patches that have that config give the clipping LED and ones that have a simpler config don't. In fact, it's that, combined with... how long the reverb tail is :???:

When I turn the reverb decay down on those patches, the clip LED doesn't light so quickly. I also think there are other settings in the patches that help that too, so probably any parameter to do with volume can set it off if cranked.

I took a look at the manual and it doesn't say much about the input clip LED except that it checks for the input signal being too hot. I thought that the headroom indicator was for the QV's input only, but after discovering this, I'm thinking the headroom indicator checks at different points all throughout the signal path for clipping, so who knows where in the path that may be happening. The MP-1 also has a similar feature, now that I think of it, but it has different LEDs for the different points that it checks at.
« Last Edit: Time Format by Syntho »
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rnolan

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Re: FX Loop volume drop w/Quadraverb
« Reply #5 on: Time Format »

Hey Syntho, it's been a long while since I read the manual (and for those those who want to understand reverb and its multiple variable/parameters it's a great read  :thumb-up: ).  The QV was the frst multi Fx unit I came across, prior to its release, each of the 4 Fx (EQ, PCH, DLY, REV) you bought as separate units (rack or stomp).  So it helps (IMO) to treat them all separately, particularly as the QV has a bunch of config/routing/mixing options and they centre around thinking this way eg the Delay get it's input from EQ or PCH and PCH can get its input from EQ etc, and you can feed somethings into the left and others to the right of each section.  They also each have individual input and output levels, so getting the gain structure of any given patch in it can get complicated (and thus trigger some leds).  As with MP-1, if clip leds go off, it just indicates a certain level of signal, is it distorting ??/digital clipping ??  if not your are still within the headroom of the unit (though no doubt getting close to clipping  >:D ).  I don't use the EQ so I'd leave it out (less stuff to go through in the signal chain), and rarely I'd use the PCH (I used to use some Flange). I use a mild stereo delay which is then fed into the REV (and I find Chamber works well for guitar).  So I just have to worry about DLY input/output > REV input/output (and overall in/out).  The more simple configs should trigger less leds (as you report) as there are less gain stages, each of the 4 Fx (EQ, PCH, DLY, REV) can add (and take away) a bunch of signal gain.
While you can dive right in and play with the factory presets, it's probably worth building a sound (Fx) one at a time.  Eg, select just a reverb and get it sounding how you like, then add some delay, again balance the gain settings and the sound you want then add some PCH (if you want some flange or phase or leslie), chorus I'd leave to your ADA (but whatever..), and yeah it's got a graphic EQ, EQs are dangerous, they can add and/or take away allot of gain and (IMO) should be used very sparingly/carefully.  I've never used the EQ in my QV, I never had the need so I've no idea how good it is, I'm sure it's fine (but why use digital EQ when you have great analogue EQ in you preamp ?)
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Studio Rig: MP2/MB1 > Eurorack UB2442FX-Pro > TC M-One XL > Behringer Truths (with Truth Sub) / QUAD ESL 63s
Live Rig: MP2/MB1 > Alesis Quadverb > Alesis Midiverb 4 > Yamaha AM802 > B200s/Carvin TS100/DCM200L > ADA Split Stacks/Mesa P112s

Syntho

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Re: FX Loop volume drop w/Quadraverb
« Reply #6 on: Time Format »

The EQ seemed to be the other culprit in triggering those LEDs. One patch had the treble cranked 8db, and as soon as I tuned it down it worked better. I'm gonna go through the entire thing sometime soon and see what I come up with, and build some patches from scratch as you say.
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rnolan

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Re: FX Loop volume drop w/Quadraverb
« Reply #7 on: Time Format »

Unless you need it, leave the EQ out, all the other Fx are more unity gain oriented but with the EQ you can seriously change the gain structure (hence my previous comments), and as I said, I never use it as I had no need, but hey play with it if you want to, just realise, when you add you add, when you take way you take away (gain wise)
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Studio Rig: MP2/MB1 > Eurorack UB2442FX-Pro > TC M-One XL > Behringer Truths (with Truth Sub) / QUAD ESL 63s
Live Rig: MP2/MB1 > Alesis Quadverb > Alesis Midiverb 4 > Yamaha AM802 > B200s/Carvin TS100/DCM200L > ADA Split Stacks/Mesa P112s

Syntho

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Re: FX Loop volume drop w/Quadraverb
« Reply #8 on: Time Format »

If anyone here has a QV (the original), try going through patches with the EQ-PCH-DLY-RVB configuration and turn up the input a bit. See if your headroom indicator LED starts skipping the -6 LED and goes straight to clipping. Try it with other patches that have other configurations and compare.

I'm thinking what's happening to me is normal as discussed by me and rnolan, but I just want to see if other people are getting the same thing.
« Last Edit: Time Format by Syntho »
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rnolan

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Re: FX Loop volume drop w/Quadraverb
« Reply #9 on: Time Format »

I know I always got the clipping led flashing on my loudest lead patch and the rhythm would just nudge the first green led but it wasn't clipping, the input leds on the QV are very sensitive (it seems), and maybe a bit conservative and misleading. I don't recall the headroom after red clip led, need to read the manual (it's been a while), clip leds always go off at "x" db before real clip actually occurs (as do all mixers etc) eg 12db before clip (ie head room) and also the dynamic range between your stage rhythm patch and loudest lead is actually quite large (on the QV input leds), and even more with 2 guitars in the band (as your lead needs to be louder to get over the other guitar).
For your loudest patch, push the QV input until you actually hear the QV clip then wind it back a smidge and work back from there  :thumb-up:
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Studio Rig: MP2/MB1 > Eurorack UB2442FX-Pro > TC M-One XL > Behringer Truths (with Truth Sub) / QUAD ESL 63s
Live Rig: MP2/MB1 > Alesis Quadverb > Alesis Midiverb 4 > Yamaha AM802 > B200s/Carvin TS100/DCM200L > ADA Split Stacks/Mesa P112s
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