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Author Topic: Hafler T2 - Anyone heard of this or had any experience??  (Read 3479 times)

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rnolan

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Hey RG, some compressors also have expanders built in (most don't), DBX used to make a compressor/expander to increase/restore the dynamic range of LPs (as LPs were often compressed in the mastering to prevent the cheaper PU cartridge needles/stylices jumping out of the tracks. (compressing (2:1) on record and expanding (1:2) on playback is how DBX (tape) noise reduction works BTW)
Hey the right tubes may make the difference  :dunno: , or a combination of 2 different tubes in V1 and V2. Since there seems more gain than you need, you could try lower gain tube(s) eg a 12AU7 or even a 12AT7 (not a 12AY7 yuck, the Y means why  :dunno: is how I remember it..LoL). They will all work (the 12AT7s need more/sufficient power though as are higher ampage output (thus great phase splitters in a poweramp)).
The biggest difference in tubes I've ever experienced is when I put Mullard LPs in my MP-2 (after changing the original tubes to Boogie SPAX7s (ie JJs)). Also it may just be that the tubes are old and lost all their sparkle  :dunno: .  IIRC MJMP changes the JJs in his 3TM monthly(ish).
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kawai2g4b

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I owned a T2 for a while.  I personally didn't like the tone of the pre compared with my T3. You are right about that squashy feel to the attack, which is why I unloaded it. Plus the clean channel wasn't to my taste at all, a bit lifeless. The T3 however is a a gem of a thrash pre on the yellow channel.
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rabidgerry

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Jeeezzz so I bought the  :poop: :poop: :poop: :poop: one   :facepalm:

I genuinely like the tone.  I just can't live with that squash.  It's very extreme.

Got to be something that can be done.

I have been searching on the internet and I found some evidence on giving an amp more squash, so I expect if this can be done you can also give it less, am I way off on this one?

I really would like to keep it, I think it has great potential.
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"whadda ya want? we want Heavy Metal"

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Kim

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I have been searching on the internet and I found some evidence on giving an amp more squash, so I expect if this can be done you can also give it less, am I way off on this one?

I think there's a fair chance that it could be modded to lessen the squash; having the schematics and Signal Flow chart would help.  Most amp manufacturers have a schematics available somewhere, but I suspect few would have an actual Flow chart available like ADA was gracious enough to provide for at least the MP-2 and Quad Tube that I've seen. 
If the information available shows a "squash" circuit between the Input and preamp tube section, there's a good chance it can be hardwired to bypass that.  If the "squash" circuit is after the tubes, it may be more involved than that.  I'm not so sure about your scenario, but I have heard of people bypassing certain things internally with amps to accomplish something in particular they needed or were looking for.

Bottom line: do you think it's worth the troubles to go through all that (if it is indeed possible) and perhaps chance that the desirable tone that it once had is no longer there?  Or just say "Well at least I got to try out this preamp anyway" and put it back on the market and try again with another brand/model? 
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rabidgerry

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Yeah I think it would be worth it.  I could be barking up the wrong tree but I would like to give it a go.  It really had something different from my other preamps.  It had all the distortion, and the controllability and nothing an EQ couldn't sort out that I would want so to me it is something I would like to own.

The squash however ruined the fun.  I'll try record a few clips later.  Could be my setup but I was able to dial up 70's priest tones within a few seconds, and then as I turned the gain up and then the boost imagine the seem but sent straight to hell!!!!!!  Why wouldn't I want to keep that?  The squash is there on lower gain but nowhere near as bad.  Id it just did not duck so bad I could even live with this!

EDIT:
I'm gonna contact Digitech, they bought the Hafler designs, perhaps they have a schematic for the T2.


Here's a youtube link to their Demo: JJ is a great player.



https://youtu.be/FBASl5_nyrw

If this is a Hafler T2 then it sounds really f**king good!  I aint not hair metal fan but the guitar sounds excellent to my ears  :thumb-up:
« Last Edit: Time Format by Dante »
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"whadda ya want? we want Heavy Metal"

Guitars:1986 Westone Dimension IV, 1989 Korean Squier Fat Strat Silver Series, 1998 Korean Squier Fat Strat, MIM Fender Fat Strat - FR, Squier Stagemaster Deluxe - Thru Neck x 2, Squier Stagemaster 22 Fret - 1st Gen, 1999 Squier Showmaster - Anniversary Edition, Squier Showmaster, Tokai FV40 Flying V

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rabidgerry

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ok attached to this post is the schematic

but guess what......I can't read schematics  :facepalm:

can any of you guy's tell from this diagram what's exactly going on?
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"whadda ya want? we want Heavy Metal"

Guitars:1986 Westone Dimension IV, 1989 Korean Squier Fat Strat Silver Series, 1998 Korean Squier Fat Strat, MIM Fender Fat Strat - FR, Squier Stagemaster Deluxe - Thru Neck x 2, Squier Stagemaster 22 Fret - 1st Gen, 1999 Squier Showmaster - Anniversary Edition, Squier Showmaster, Tokai FV40 Flying V

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Dante

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Here's a youtube link to their Demo: JJ is a great player.



https://youtu.be/FBASl5_nyrw

If this is a Hafler T2 then it sounds really f**king good!  I aint not hair metal fan but the guitar sounds excellent to my ears  :thumb-up:

Agreed! That's some nice punchy tone...I'd beef it up a bit for my tastes, but it sounds nice  :thumb-up:

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MarshallJMP

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From looking at the schematics, it's more opamp (SS) based then tube.From what I can see there are 2 tubes, on for distortion and drives a output transformer.Clean is also opamp based.
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rnolan

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Now I started this post before I read MJMPs  :bow: ...

Hey RG, ok simple answer (and I have some sympathy for Kims suggestion BTW).
After a couple of wines and a cigarette and some contemplation (and a ~decent gawk at the schematic (to the extent I understand circuits  :facepalm: not nothing but not something MJMP ish).
My gut feel (and I hear you, you like it) is chuck in a couple of Mullard LPs and wind any gain trimpots back  a bit (if you can/and they exist) and it might just do the trick.

Now taking a more "lets try to understand the circuit" approach... seems to me there is a fair bit of stuff happening in the V1 stage between T1-A and T1-B triodes (do you remember a 12AX? tube has 2 gain stages ie 2 triodes ? I'm hoping MJMP will chime in and save me here LoL). You'll notice (I hope) on the schematic how each triode of each tube is depicted (T1A & T1B, T2A & T2B and you can see how they all (each triode) gets power from the power supply (so how a tube and/or to some extent a transistor work is you give them some power then you use a lower level input signal to control its (the power) flow to the output (more signal more output  >:D ))). T1's circuit is more complicated (I'd proffer in here lies the squish (and  :dunno: the place to change/vary/fix it) and T2 is basically just a more (even) gain stage (it's way less complicated).
Now to vary the squish (if I'm right) I've thought of 2 approaches (just changing tubes).  You could go for a lower gain V1 tube (so if squish is triggered by signal threshold (like a compressor) and less signal is coming from T1A because of lower gain tube, it may not be triggered/exceeded quite as much ? (so a 12AT7 or probably better  :dunno: a 12AU7) Gain of 70ish or 50 ish mu (12AX7's are 100+ mu  >:D and why we like them LoL) . The squish is triggered by something (and changing whatever that is is also an option).
The other approach is just use really open headroomy tubes and keep the gains down a bit ? Again the Mullard LPs are good for this (they are highly recommended for HiFi Audiofile applications) but there are others as well.

An aside.. when you look at the schematic and see the circuity around the 4 triode stages, this is also how our beloved ADA preamps work.  The various "voices" in MP-1/2, Classic and MB-1 alter things in these circuits (between the 4 triodes) to create the basic tones.
« Last Edit: Time Format by rnolan »
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MarshallJMP

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I think you get so much compression is because the majority of the distortion is made by only one tube that gets hit hard by an opamp.
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rabidgerry

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To clarify, the Clean channel is indeed SS.  One thing I do know about this pre amp.

Interesting information there Richard.  Wish I could read that diagram and know what it was telling me.

Both you and MJMP have mentioned the T1 area, so this could possibly be the offending zone.

I could just swap tubes yeah sure.  I'll try this tonight and see what difference it makes.

If this preamp is more SS than tube, it still sounds good and has nice breakup.  I'd like to get it to work.

MJMP what would you recommend?  Just a simple change of tube?  Or could something be modified without losing the distortion amount.

So second tube is purely for amplification then, ok  I see.  So I higher gain tube will give louder output and a lower gain tube will give me less output correct?
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"whadda ya want? we want Heavy Metal"

Guitars:1986 Westone Dimension IV, 1989 Korean Squier Fat Strat Silver Series, 1998 Korean Squier Fat Strat, MIM Fender Fat Strat - FR, Squier Stagemaster Deluxe - Thru Neck x 2, Squier Stagemaster 22 Fret - 1st Gen, 1999 Squier Showmaster - Anniversary Edition, Squier Showmaster, Tokai FV40 Flying V

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MarshallJMP

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For me one tube is not enough. For a more open no comp sound you need at least 2 tubes and 3 is even better. Tube rolling won't help IMO.
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Iperfungus

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For me one tube is not enough. For a more open no comp sound you need at least 2 tubes and 3 is even better. Tube rolling won't help IMO.

99,99% you're right.

But I would suggest to try a 5751 tube there...
They are like 12AX7 with 30% less gain.
I had good results with a 5751 in my Zoom 9150: they still have a very good gain amount...enough to rock really hard.

Maybe, when pushed hard by the opamp, that tube would compress less...
« Last Edit: Time Format by Iperfungus »
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rabidgerry

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MJMP when you say one tube is not enough, what do you mean?

Are you saying one tube is not able to reduce "Squash"?  Or something else?

It sounds good, but it's just the squash that is the issue. Different from anything else I own. 

Iperfungus, I'll look into getting one of those tubes perhaps.

But I might try some other tubes that I have at home just to see what they are like.  Not sure if I have any medium gain or low gain tubes.  I probably need to buy some new tubes actually but they are so f**king expensive.  Lucky I don't use a tube power amp eh???


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"whadda ya want? we want Heavy Metal"

Guitars:1986 Westone Dimension IV, 1989 Korean Squier Fat Strat Silver Series, 1998 Korean Squier Fat Strat, MIM Fender Fat Strat - FR, Squier Stagemaster Deluxe - Thru Neck x 2, Squier Stagemaster 22 Fret - 1st Gen, 1999 Squier Showmaster - Anniversary Edition, Squier Showmaster, Tokai FV40 Flying V

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MarshallJMP

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I mean that one tube is not enough to get a "decent sound".It has to do too much work.It's better to devide it over more tubes.
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